compact tractor class
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
What ever happen with the compact diesel class some were trying to start with the 4bt cummins .Im in the process of building a 3 cyl 179 cube IH 484 engine turbo and alcohol for a miny rod class i figure 190 cubes and 60 pounds boost on the 3cyl should run with those 4cyl turbo ford mustang engines at 1425 pounds what was the weight on that diesel class |
Re: compact tractor class
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Old feller
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NGTPA was trying to get a set of uniform rules for a compact diesel class.
What is happening now is similar to antique tractor pulling. Everyone is building some cool stuff, but none of it can run together. Folks with smaller combinations will scream the 4BT shouldn't be allowed. Then the fighting over tire size. 31"?, 34"?, 16.1's ? Good luck getting a set of rules a person could run anywhere with. |
Re: compact tractor class
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Oid feller
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As I said ,,,,,,,,, |
Re: compact tractor class
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this could be a fun class to get into. i dont see a 4bt needed in that class. The 4bt will have plenty of power for a 6000 to 7000 lbs class
limit it to small 3 or 4 cyl motors |
Re: compact tractor class
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Compact puller
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Limit engine to a 1 liter 3 cylinder. Almost every compact manufacturer builds close to a 1 liter engine. Single turbo any size. A 1000 cc engine can only spin so big of a charger. 2000 lbs, 31x15.50x15 tire 15 inch hitch and let er rip!! |
Re: compact tractor class
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i agree plenty of motors you can pick from. |
Re: compact tractor class
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
NQS has a unlimited class alcohol or diesel not over a 3 cyl but 1050 pounds |
Re: compact tractor class
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Registered: 02/23/2017 Posts: 144 |
Why a 15" drawbar? Most all mini rods run a 13" drawbar. |
Re: compact tractor class
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Old Fan
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As much as I want for this class to take off, I just don't see how guys would be willing to spend $30-40k or even $50k+ on a mini diesel. For that money they can build a hot farm, diesel pickup, or even a nice blown small block mini rod to run on the local level.
And don't tell me that guys aren't willing to spend big bucks on a 3-4 cyl diesel. Bc the amount that guys are spending for the NQS single lung motors is freaking outrageous. The only way to keep this class affordable, is a claim rule for the motors. Let me repeat, a CLAIM RULE.. |
Re: compact tractor class
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Ohio Case
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So what is a "Claim Rule"???? |
Re: compact tractor class
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Registered: 02/23/2012 Posts: 575 |
Box turbo and rpm limit will keep cost down |
Re: compact tractor class
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Like to know
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You set the rules on motor pump, turbo etc. You then put a number on those things so that instead of having a protest fee. If your getting your a$$ handed to you every weekend and you know you fit the rules. You simply say I'm going to buy your motor tonight and hand over the money and you get the motor. If someone is playing by the rules and not cheating they should have no problem giving up turbo, or motor or whatever you put a claim rule on. It been around for ever on circle track motors. |
Re: compact tractor class
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what?
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So....let me see if i understand what you have said:
If i build to the rules, tune my tractor perfectly, have the right setup/weight/gear and whoop your butt time and again, you get to pay a small fee and you can have my engine? You have to be kidding me?!?!? Basically because you can't figure out how to make your tractor work you can steal someone else's......that is ridiculous. Who wants to be involved in a class like that? |
Re: compact tractor class
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To what
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What?, the whole reason for the claimer rule is to keep people from spending stupid money on their setup, becuse it might be claimed. So if your engine or whatever can be claimed, let's say for example you can claim a whole engine for say $3000, then why would you spend more money than $3000 in the first place? Believe me it works! As someone else said In another post dirt trackers have done it for years. |
Re: compact tractor class
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Old Fan
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Claim rules have been around circle track racing since the 1970s or maybe even the 60s. I've always wished that tractor pulling had the rule.
GN 4wd trucks for example would be a great class to have a claimer motor. You could realistically put a claim of $50k on the motors and Sonny has to build a $50k 650ci motor. Or you could keep spending $80-100k like they are today and lose pullers left and right for being priced out of the game... It is a very simple concept that works... |
Re: compact tractor class
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what?
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I never said anything about spending money here....what you're saying is if I am effective at tuning and driving my tractor, someone else can take it from me because I did a good job? That is retarded. So we reward the lazy people?!?! Great strategy. Makes for great competition. Everybody build the lamest thing you can.......... |
Re: compact tractor class
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
No what he is saying put say a 3000 claim rule on the engine and someone claims your engine you loose it you have more than 3000 in it your stupid and didnt follow the rules |
Re: compact tractor class
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Registered: 07/19/2008 Posts: 145 |
Claims would end the big money spent. Bring it on. |
Claim rule does not belong in pulling
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No way
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The claim rule is a racing idea and it can stay in racing. No need to bring that crap into pulling.
It’s not always money that wins, so why does that person have to be punished by losing what they created? |
Re: Claim rule does not belong in pulling
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,660 |
I am totally against the claim rule. Why punish a good builder? If a class has rules ( and they all do) then rules should dictate what you build. If you take the top running tractor or truck and trade with the guy that always finishes at the bottom of the class in just a few short weeks the guy that got the top running vehicle will ruin it and the puller that gets the last place vehicle will have running near the top of the class in short order. The claim rule should stay out of pulling. Don't punish pullers for being successful. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
Re: Claim rule does not belong in pulling
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Posts: 524 |
There are a number of stipulations before one can just claim a engine. Heck you can even exchange an engine. Below is IMCA's claim rules.
1. In order to receive claim card, IMCA license must be purchased prior to June 1. Exception is any driver selling an engine at an IMCA sanctioned event after June 1, will be issued a claim card. 2. Claim rule will not be in effect on first TWO track point nights. Following second night, no driver may claim unless they competed at ALL previous weekly sanctioned track point events. Engine claim rule will not be in effect on season championship night. Exception is: If a driver is claimed at any weekly point event, he may claim at any following event at that track without needing perfect attendance. 3. Driver can only claim one engine, one shock (one or all shocks at the same time), and one carburetor during current calendar year. Exception is after any driver has had more than one engine claimed, they are eligible to claim as many engines as they have had claimed and will be issued a ‘Red Card’ from IMCA enabling them to do so - once they have made a legal claim. 4. Driver allowed only one claim per event, regardless of outcome. Driver claiming engine cannot claim shocks or carburetor on same night. No driver may claim the same driver more than once during current calendar year - engine, shocks or carb. Driver being claimed is subject to only one claim per event. If multiple claims are made on same driver, engine claim takes precedence over shock and carburetor claim. Shock claim takes precedence over carburetor claim. 5. When claim rule is in effect, top four finishers must report directly to claim area and are subject to claim by any eligible driver finishing fifth on back in feature that is scored on the lead lap. Should one (or more) of the INITIAL top four finishers be disqualified, ANY DRIVER ADVANCED INTO TOP FOUR is NOT eligible to CLAIM or BE CLAIMED. 6. When claim rule is in effect, failure to report directly to claim area will result in disqualification, loss of money and points for first infraction (all items are still claimable); will be treated as engine claim refusal for second infraction. (Exception: If car is involved in accident or rendered unable to report directly to claim area. Car should be taken to claim area.) 7. Driver making claim must drive immediately after feature, under own power, directly to claim area. Driver must have correct amount of cash, current IMCA License and claim card on person. Driver may not claim without any of these items or using receipt. 8. Claim must be made to official immediately after feature. Highly recommended only involved drivers and officials allowed in claim area, and drivers remain in cars. No communication of any kind between drivers and anyone outside claim area. 9. Only driver may claim and agree to sell or refuse. In case of multiple claims on same item, drawing will be held to determine outcome. Claim is not charged to drivers not awarded item. If first eligible driver withdraws claim, next eligible driver will be awarded claim. 10. Once claim has been made and accepted, engine should not be started and car should be pushed to where removal will occur (both cars are to be pushed with exchange claim). Under certain circumstances, engine may be started at discretion of officials. 11. Any driver voluntarily withdrawing a legal claim will be charged with the claim and fined $200. If exchange option is chosen by claimed driver, claiming driver can not withdraw claim, if so, claiming driver will be issued refusal penalty. 12. All claimed items must be removed at the track, within a reasonable amount of time (at discretion of track officials) and must leave the track under possession of claiming driver. If any driver is caught at the track claiming for another driver, both will be issued the claim refusal penalties in that division. 13. Any sabotage MUST be discovered during engine removal. Drivers are accountable for sabotage and will result in same penalty as engine claim refusal in that division. IF SABOTAGE IS DETERMINED by official, claim will be disallowed and money returned to claimer. Once engine is released to claiming driver, no sabotage penalties will be issued. 14. Disqualification of claimed or claiming driver will not affect legal claim (EXCEPTION IS RULE #5). Claimed item will be removed and transferred prior to any penalties being assessed. 15. Unsportsmanlike conduct during any claim procedure will result in an immediate minimum $100 fine and/or suspension. 16. Any driver that completes a legal claim must compete at the next weekly sanctioned track point event at that track or he/she will be issued the claim refusal penalties in that division. 17. NON-TRACK POINT/SPECIAL EVENTS: All engine claim cash amounts in each division increase $500, with “OR EXCHANGE” option added. (For example, during a special Hobby Stock event, the claim would be $1,050 OR exchange). 18. Promoter may claim, for proper dollar amount, any claimable item at any time, unless that driver has made a legal claim in that event. Any promoter directly affiliated with an IMCA car in competition (at their track) forfeits right of promoter claim. Driver claim takes precedence over promoter claim. 19. During any cash claim, all claimable items should be inspected for legality prior to transfer of items. If claimed item is found illegal, driver is disqualified. Claimer then has option to accept or decline claim. If declined, claim is not charged on card. Additional penalties may apply, depending on infraction. 20. During any exchange claim, both items exchanged must be legal. If any claimed item is found illegal, driver with illegal item is disqualified. Driver with legal item has option to accept or decline claim. Additional penalties may apply, depending on infraction. 21. IMCA reserves right to refuse issuance of claim card, to revoke claim card and claiming privileges, or deny any claim if and when deemed necessary. IMCA reserves right to claim, for proper dollar amount, any claimable item at any time. --- |
Re: Claim rule does not belong in pulling
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,660 |
Well after reading that now I am even more convinced that it's a terrible idea. Pulling has enough confusing and counterproductive rules already. Don't give the" bean counters" more power. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
Re: Claim rule does not belong in pulling
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,615 |
Claim rules = Communism.
Just give everyone a participation trophy while you're at it. |
Re: Claim rule does not belong in pulling
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what?
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Amen!! Thank goodness there are a few common sense thinkers here! |
Re: Claim rule does not belong in pulling
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
claiming a complete engine may be hard to do but say a box turbo class if a hx 60 holset cost 1100 dollars a 1100 dollar claim would be simple and easy air and fuel controls every engine |
Re: Claim rule does not belong in pulling
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,597 |
Well said Lewis. To me a claim rule only works for parts like a box turbo, a box pump, or a crate engine class. A claim rule doesn't work in classes that allow different manufactures like a compact diesel class engine claim rule.
As for a box turbo claim rule like Lewis mentioned... I'm not completely against it... but it could get pretty tricky... for example what happens when you claim someones box turbo and they can't get a new one before the next event? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
Re: Claim rule does not belong in pulling
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What for
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The way I think it should be if a claim rule is in place. Would be the person who wants to claim another's part, that person should pay the cost of the said part and also surrender their like part to the person who they are claiming from. The cost of claim should equal the actual cost of replacement of the part that they are claiming. Thus will prevent someone from doing it just to mess with someone. Just my 2 cents. Basically if you are dumb enough to claim a box part for replacement cost a d also surrender your part then i guess you get what u got coming to ya! Lol |
Re: Claim rule does not belong in pulling
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,597 |
In my previous example... what happens when the protestor gives them $1100 for the turbo and then gives them their turbo that they just burned up/broke/junked and the competitor can't get a new turbo in time for the next event? I could take them out of the point chase. Would a claim rule make it so guys have a few extra turbos on the shelf just in case that happens? How does that keep costs down? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
Re: Claim rule does not belong in pulling
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What for
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One way to prevent this from happening would be that if you have a blown up or damaged part , this would disqualify one from just saying I'm going to claim someone else's part just because mine blew up. If you don't have a part to trade in good condition, no claim. Another way is for whoever is supplying the said boxed parts must keep parts on the shelf, if a group or club is purchasing all their parts from a given supplier, the least they can do is keep replacement parts available and ready for expedited shipping. |
Re: Claim rule does not belong in pulling
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Posts: 524 |
If you go to IMCA's website, they list out all their claim procedures for engines, shocks, and carburetors.
They address all of the above questions. --- |
Re: Claim rule does not belong in pulling
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Floyd
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What if the club had a spare box turbo and if a driver protests the following week the protestee has to run the club turbo??? |
Re: compact tractor class
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Logan, I’ve pulled against and promote pulls that feature the few compacts that exist. What I have experienced is they act much like a TWD, they cannot achieve the tire speed a blown mini creates so the extra hitch is required.
At 2300lbs and a 15” hitch, they are still trying to catch the blown small block @ 1950lb and a 13” hitch. I feel as they continue working on them, they will close the gap but never to the point weight and hitch are the same. |
Re: compact tractor class
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What for
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I saw where Illini State Pullers has a claimer rule. Just saying that claimers are in tractor pulling too!! Its already here so no need to worry about it being something new. It would definitely help keep costs in check for sure. |
Re: compact tractor class
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Like to know
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Some of you keyboard pullers have know clue. You acted PPL or NTPA is going to out a claim rule on the Pro Stocks or something. A claim rule would work in a beginner level class that is supposed to run say a box turbo from "pick a distributor " if I'm supposed to be running this distributors turbo I'm not going to spend 3000 or 4000 bucks on a turbo someone can claim for 1000 bucks. |
Re: compact tractor class
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Now you are getting it
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Like to know, now you are picking up whats being thrown down! It is designed for the lower level classes to help keep costs down. I agree at NTPA and PPL or any other professional level, claimers are not necessary or warranted. Yes keeping costs down is probably one of the perks of claimer rules just because why would you spend big money on a part that someone else might claim for pennies on the dollar of what the rule states. |
Re: compact tractor class
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 783 |
Looks to me like both of you are keyboard pullers. And that just my opinion and I am not saying that you have to agree with it. |
...
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Registered: 07/09/2008 Posts: 140 |
Perhaps a case of multiple personality disorder as well... |
Re: compact tractor class
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Now you are getting it
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Supertiquer, I promise you that I have been in the seat of tractor pulling in competition way longer than you have and still at it! So I guess if that makes me a "Keyboard Puller" then you are exactly right about me being a "Keyboard Puller". I reckon that makes all of us that have pulled in competition and post on here, a bunch of "Keyboard Pullers". I never understood the level of intelligence it takes to label a person who you don't even know, a name in which you or others use so loosely? And to Suburban Farmboy, Where did this quote come from? "Perhaps a case of multiple personality disorder as well.." Really??? |
Re: compact tractor class
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 783 |
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Re: compact tractor class
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 95 |
There is a VERY easy way to dispel any doubt accredited to you .......................... put your real name on it |
Re: compact tractor class
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 95 |
So now I'm curious ...................... I get a thumbs down? because? I simply stated the truth AND my name is on it ![]() |
Re: compact tractor class
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 783 |
And Keith, that is the truth! Again that is my opinion and I am not saying that anyone has to agree with my opinion but I know you will. |
Re: compact tractor class
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plum krazy
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Having a real name on something does not make the truth any more real, there is only one truth, just different levels of acceptance.I used to buy gas at a station that required two signatures on the personal check, one on the front like normal, one on the back agreeing to pay, WTF, if one is no good, how can two make it better????????????????????? |
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