09:05:49am, Saturday, May 18, 2024
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Checking Out and the ITPA
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Wondering
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Anbody know about profarm checking out (Ryan Andersons) Heard the the scheid big cube 466 got caught cheating in ITPA 466 class |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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He got protested at Urbana. He declined to tear it down and is out 2 years. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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These comments are interesting and I think Mr. Kirby is on the right path. Maybe we were over, but I'm still pretty sure that we are one of the smallest motors in that class. I wanted to pump other tractors but the ITPA said it would ruin their class. Now I know why. It's pretty plain and we need to quit kidding each other. It's pretty obvious when the best we got was 4th place. If you're going to have rules either enforce them or maybe we need to change the rules to conform to the class. That would be more like it!! |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Rob Walker
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From what I heard you were given the chance to protest the tractors you thought were over, costing you $1000 that you whold have lost, but you had more respect for the ITPA than that (running a 570 in a 466 class), loads of respect. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Maybe you should get your figures straight! |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Rob Walker
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You $1000 for 2 tractors
2 tractor being legal = 0 dollars for you |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Sounds to me like the ITPA has let a hornets nest build up. My thought is a MANDATORY unannounced tech day. Pump EVERY tractor. Rules are made for reasons, and if the rules arent enforced, whats the point of having them? Sounds to me like there are some big cube engines in the class and the other pullers have just been lucky to this point. Do I smell a conspiracy??? |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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you have a good point
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BUT, when will this unnanounced tech day happen? And how will the promoter feel if someone is still teching and pumping motors when he or she wants their show over with in a 3hr time period?
You are right, what is the point in having rules if you don't enforce them. I have seen this first handed with the Pres. of that org.. I was a tech man and I told him a tractor was Illegal. His response was "i am not really sure that is how the rule really reads" If he is not sure, then why is he president? |
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it happens everywhere
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Posts: 64 |
i dont care what class you pull in any where from a non turbo 4020 class on up to the big boys, guys "bend" the rules. thats just how it is, no one conforms strickly to the rules and if they do, then they are not going to win, simply becuse there will all ways be some one that isn't following the rules... thats my thought on that |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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interested
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For one thing--your right--pump them all---or are you all scared!!! And is so why--- Like Kirby said DUH!!!!!!!! |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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I can only speak for myself. I was never asked to pump my engine. For what its worth. The only one officially protested was Mr. Anderson and he declined and he's out. I wouldn't go around calling us all scared.. It really doesn't matter he only pulled at one pull. The next one the $500 was layed out and the went back to the truck. I was "Eliminanted." Someone won the show and we went to the next fair. Life went on. We have 6 more pulls to go.. I may be a homer, I wife has called me worse, but i'm still pulling and thats better than some can say. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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mike c
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nascar type tech ends all the bull sheet,every tractor gets it every third show |
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TECH
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Anonymous User
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So where are all of these tech people going to come from? How long do you think it would take to teardown 11-13 vehicles? NASCAR brings in billions of dollars and pays tech people to be there for days and they have a week until their next event. How many pulling facilities are equpped to handle 11 quarantined tractors? Who wants to teardown in a dirt filled infield and let all of Mother Nature's Goodness into their engine?
Face the facts people, it takes manpower and a major amount of time. This isn't a flippin' TV show where 30days of work can be done in 30 minutes. There are not enough people in any given organization that are involved enough to handle the way a tech should really be handled. Too many pulling organizations are filled with people who don't get involved past paying their membership, showing up 30 minutes before it is time to pull and grabbing their check at the end of the night. Take a real look at any organization at any given pull, starting flagman, finish flagman and director in charge. Three people to handle 30-40 competitors, track maintenance, sled settings and confirm all records of distances, entries & memberships are all in order AND MAKE SURE THAT A SHOW IS PUT ON IN FRONT OF THE GRANDSTAND. Now you want them to handle tearing down 11 or so vehicles. Pull your head out of the sand. Until the sport can attract more money so that we can support paying someone to tech vehicles to that magnitude, the protest rule is the best thing that the sport has. If anyone thinks there needs to be more tech then step up and help. If you don't take advantage of the protest rule you are just as guilty as the person who may be cheating. If you think protest money is too much, how much money are you potentially giving up to a competitor who may be cheating you! Everyone will let go of thousands of dollars for the trick of the week but won't give up $500 to catch a person who may be cheating you. We only make this worse as a "community" as we sit here on the computer or sit in the pits and "accuse" everyone who has beat you of cheating. Do you reallly think that just pullers read these pages? Or that pull superintendants just sit in an air conditioned office and don't go through the pits? Promoters want a show to entertain people. Don't kid yourselves, we are Pro Wrestling on wheels to most promoters. The more griping and the more waves that we make the harder it is for us to take the next step up. Wake up people. If there is going to be competition, there is going to be someone who wants their advantage. It doesn't matter if it is for $5 or $50,000. There is always someone who wants to win that bad. If you don't think the protest rule works, then get involved and be constructive. Just think about how much time you have wasted reading this post and think about the energy you could have put into doing something positive for our sport. |
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Re: TECH
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Anonymous User
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RIGHT ON THE NOSE CARL.
Thanks for another great weekend of pulling with you guys. |
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Re: TECH
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Anonymous User
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Thanks Richard. It is always great to have the IMPA along with the IPA. You guys put on a great show and are great to work with. See you at Earl Park.
Carl |
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Re: TECH
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Measurement man
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Make them show up at the next event with eng oil drained and the oil pan held on with four bolts. Make them remove the pan and you measure the bore with a piece of # 9 wire bent to go around the conn rod and the stroke with a tape measure. If they're cheating, it will be OBVIOUS. Make them install their own pan and add oil and they can pull if legal. Five minutes to tech each one. Been there and dun that many times. Pre-season checks help set the stage for honest competition, but this ensures that it stays that way. |
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Re: TECH
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Anonymous User
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that all sounds easy but this is a profarm class were talking about here.pulling a pan might be pretty easy on a tractor with a tube frame or maybe its no problem on a stock IH. i really dont know but on my blue tractor which just happens to pull in the very class being discussed here that would mean removing the front bolster just to get the pan off. not very convenient as i know of very few fairgrounds that have an adequate place to do something of that nature.now dont get me wrong im not against inspections but not in that way. like another post said no assoc has the resources to check 10-15 tractors at this magnitude of teardown before a pull when half the pullers get there a half hour before the pull anyways. my idea would be to have a set "inspection day" before the pulling season ever starts where everybody is checked. you put a seal on the oil pan of the ones you have checked and if your engine has not been checked you dont pull simple as that. the bottom line is i dont care how often im inspected but you cant just show up an hour before a pull and expect to tech that many tractors. |
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Re: TECH
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Anonymous User
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5 minutes to check, 5 minutes to find next competitor, and, and, and. You have ONE class of vehicles with 10 competitors and you have 100 minutes involved with ONE CLASS[[/u] and your three volunteers still have to put on the rest of the show.
I think your 5 minutes is a fantasy number. At any given event we have 2 RPM limited classes that normally has half of each class that wants to double check RPM to insure that they will be legal going down the track. All you have to do is plug into an electrical outlet and go and that takes more than five minutes. You can have as many pre-season tech days you want and you will never catch everyone. Either the vehicle isn't ready, it's Christmas, my oldest kid is graduating, crops aren't in, etc; and the odds are still 4-5 officials to 100 plus competitors. If you have been there and done that all the power to you and the group that you pull with. Send the rest of us some notes. I am always open to hearing how to improve what we are doing. I am sure any organization would like to hear how to get more participation out of the membership so that the workload can be better distributed so that a more efficient show can be put on to entertain people. It would all be great if you had one class to worry about but if you are putting on any kind of show with a group you are bringing a minimum of 3 classes and you are still trying to acommadate a promoter and your competitors and look good while you are doing it. Reality. MANPOWER. |
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Re: TECH
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simple
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If anyone is so sure of the ones overcubed it simple put up the money, it seemes to work. Winners are always cheaters, ha. |
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Re: TECH
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Farm green, pull red
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Only problem with that is at $500 a tractor, thats ALOT of money to pump 8-10 tractors... Everyone that pulls knows who is over on cubes. Hell, I have seen quite a few time this year that a "supposed" 466 waxed a 640.....running the same rpm's..... come on people. We ALL know what needs to happen. Follow the rules or do away with them. At the rate things are going, just make the pro farm class like the super farm class and bring it.... |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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Well we have three pulls this week starting tonight. Do we have any volunteers? I gotta job and am fresh out of vacation so i'll be there about 7pm better have me checked and ready to go! I truely can't afford to lose $500 for a protest. Anderson was protested because to many people actually knew what he had and had loose lips. The other tractors some of you say are cheating are at least better at keeping their mouths shut or aren't really over. If i'm gonna blow that kinda cash its gonna be on formula and diapers. I think this is getting a little blown out of preportion at the moment. There is usually this kinda crap at the end of the year. I'm happy with what i'm doing this year the changes made to the tractor have worked well and maybe i'm a set of radials away from doing better but I think the tires from Lincoln are doing a pretty good job and should do better when I get them figured out. For the record I don't have a Hyper 540 that was all said toungue and cheek... I got enough to worry about in my life at the moment, I think i'll just try and keep myself in check for the time being. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Im not for sure how long this class has been around I think for about 12 years but as far as I know this is the first instance of anyone how has been protested that I know of. Know I have been around this sport for about 16 years and I have ran trucks and tractors and been very competitive in each and been acused of cheating but have prided my self on never once on breaking any rules. But pullers like my self are getting fewer and fewer as the expense grows the wantigness to win over comes the honesty. But if you people think that in the 12 years that there hasnt been any other tractors that havent been over then your smokin. The other thing that I dont quite understand is that the tractor in question never won an event and he was 570 ci, and I know that money was no object when this motor was built and it was dynoed and tuned at Schieds, then how does a 466 beat a much larger and just as prepaired tractor? It does make a guy think just a little know doesnt it. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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they only ran in that class one time ,if i,m not mistakin |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Farm green, pull red
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Yea, he only ran 1 time this year and got 4th place in the class. He is being singled out by some of the ITPA pullers because he is/was a paying member if the ITPA but ran only a limited number of hooks. He was usually in the top 5 each time he pulled ( I am basing this on last year) but by only hooking a few times and being a paid member he "messed up" the points for the guys that always pull ITPA so this got them all in an uproar, not to mention he has done fairly well for the fact that he has only been pulling a couple 3 years.... Moral of the story, if you don't kiss someones ass, they will sometimes turn on you as they did in this scenario.
I understand that it takes a considerable amount of time to "tech" a tractor. The rules are plainly stated, yet everyone bends/breaks them. Seriously, if there are rules they should be enforced on everyone, if they are not going to be enforced then do away with them and go back to brush pulls. Every competitor that pulls is in it for the fans that make the pulls happen, you go start pissing off the pullers then that affects the fans and the pull in general.... The only think hurting here is the reputation of the ITPA for letting this ordeal get to the point it's at. If one guy builds big, then everyone builds big or it's not worth competing. This goes for other organizations as well. I know for a fact that there is a tractor pulling IPA that has a 640 cube engine turning 3000 rpm's which is above the 580 cube rpm "break" that is predetermined in the rules.... Same story, rules aren't enforced.... Where does it stop? |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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ITPA?
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In my opinion, they have NO "reputation" of any sort anymore. They are a has been.
The antique class at the John Deere Illinois State Fair Finals ("whatever the heck that is supposed to mean because the season is not over yet") proved that. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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i agree 100% they are a sorry organization run on the goodbuddy system. get some new blood where it would do some good, update the class rules to better mesh with other organizations. they have run alot of good people off and its starting to show... could not get enough tractors at peoria had to beg b.s.t.p. to get some to have a show. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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hmmm
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What ipa tractor is 640 pulling 3000 rpms? If certian why not protest them isnt that what its for? Why would u defend cheating by saying they got protested for messing up points they got protested because they was CHEATING proves protest rules work. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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get a clue
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that is the dumbest thing i have heard. They protested him because HE WAS A 570 in a 466 class. What it boils down to is this, he was protested because pullers thought/heard he was over cubed, they were right. If everyone is so sure that all of these tractors are overcubed also then do something, put up some money and stop bashing the ITPA and the pullers of this class. Its hard to believe, someone gets caught cheating and people try to defend them. You say enforce the rules well it sounds like the itpa pullers did. |
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Put it out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Anonymous User
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If it is a fact and you pull in the class. You should be able to make a cool $400 on the protest. I will be waiting for the protest money in that class to come to any board members attention within 15min of the end of the class for the rest of the season.
If anyone reads a protest rule correctly. The IPA pools the money, techs the vehicle, takes 20% of the pot for the organization, and the winner of the protest gets the balance of the pot. So if you put up $500 to protest and win the protest, you get $900 back. So let's not act like you are loosing $500 when you protest a tractor. If you are so sure of the infraction you are really making easy money. It is VERY CLEAR. Y'know cheating takes the fun out of anything but people who accuse cheaters but don't want to call them out in person take about the same amount of fun out of the game. Everyone complains that $500 is alot of money but the same guy in the class that is worried about putting it out there is the same guy that says that he won't teardown for less. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Now let's PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Johnie
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They only ran once with itpa and just proves u gotta drive it two win . Its sad that local people defend cheaters . The dyno showed no huge hp increase compared to the 466 motor so its no wonder they didnt clean up . I think it just makes everyone look bad when people will defend there theory of trying it legal and cant when so we made a big motor. I suppose once again everyone else is running illegal fuel or maybe they poped a fire ball at end of track to so they must be cheating. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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Just curious.... How many of you posting on here in this topic run in the class or even the ITPA? Just wondering. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Facebook
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Hey Lenny
Like read your facebook. 
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Hey Danny,
Get a Clue before you start bashing my business I don't even know you which probably means, you really don't know me either. If you have a comment to make about my business make it to my face not on a web page. Yeah! I was over but that's because I bulit my tractor to run IPA and if you really knew me you would have already assumed that. We just decided why not run a few hooks, everybody else does. We got protested we were over and we are out end of story. I also agree with carl, quit pointing fingers about speculating who is over. This whining doesn't do any good, and its not good for our sport. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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swaying over
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I think that Anderson not pumping the tractors says he had more respect for ITPA than ITPA or the other pullers have for him. This making comments about his business, is not appropriate. He is a nice kid and a nice family--and a good business man!! Besides--let's face it---he got what a fourth place and your pumping him ---what does that tell you about the other three!!!! Where is your math skills!!!! Tells me the guy was right in saying we had better get better rules and one that everyone can and would comply with---like bring it!!!! Now---let's leave it alone and move on!!!! |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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For Ryan
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Neither is cheating on cubes!
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Cloverdale
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He had his 570 motor at cloverdale and ran in the 466 class and got beat so he went to sheids and ran that motor on the dyno 45 passes.. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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Man sounds like his builder has some loose lips |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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Lenny what happened last night? looks like all the nitrous got the best of your 540 at the beginning of your pass. Is that why you didnt smoke much? must be one of those one pass tractors... |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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Alcohol injection |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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your going to blow up and they will find the hidden blue bottle that you have!!! i'd watch it. I also heard you'll pop the head off with alcohol injection. just try hydrogen peroxide.......i heard it works better and you wont make Klints wreck video... |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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Oh that might work! get blonde smoke that way? I probably already made the vid at Urbana |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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and im sure your wife was pissed after she had to wash your underwear! |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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lol I was ok.. just gas! |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Wondering
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Sounds like that Hydrogen Peroxide thing could actually work....does it? |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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jd8420
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this crap is a joke with you people. got a bigger motor than a 466 pull in the 12fs plain and simple. quit wining about it back and forth. Do you want to ruin tractor pulling? I don't. that's what it will come down to. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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Lenny is the expert on that.....ask him...his truck bed was full of empty bottles of hydrogen peroxide from dollar general...I seen it! |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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I would say it was for my hair but well not much there!!! |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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All of those years of it blowing in the wind as you were flying down the track on the F-30 probably did your hair in. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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HAHA! you got that right! its turning it grey these days though |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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disgusted
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You guys are really something---and you have the gall to talk about over cubes and all of you are or your running nitrous, alcohol or something. Talk about loose lips!!! |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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We have to do it to "Compete" for christ sakes we have to "Compete" with 570's!!!! |
Lenny, You're Missing the Boat 
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Registered: 06/30/2008 Posts: 186 |
Lenny, I have to admit I am a little disappointed in your ingenuity. I can't believe you aren't using all those dirty diapers your daughter is producing. You have your own factory right at home. If they are anything like my 6 month old son's, there is more noxious gas available and more powerful than anything you can buy off a shelf. You need to make that IH like the delorian off of Back to the Future.
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Re: Lenny, You're Missing the Boat
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Anonymous User
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METHANE!!!!! Thanks I hadn't thought of that!!! I'd have to use that stuff they put in the alky to make it smell better.. don't want to run off the crowd |
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Re: Lenny, You're Missing the Boat
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outofcontrol
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well i guess we will all know whos really cheating then with that grape smell coming from a diesel..end of story your out then |
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Re: Lenny, You're Missing the Boat
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movin on
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I suggest we all get a new topic and somethin else to talk about--this is enough!!! |
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Re: Lenny, You're Missing the Boat
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Anonymous User
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lol you do realize we are just bs'ing right now?
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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?.?&`@
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Carl's right about the man power and time it would take to tech every tractor at every show and what it could potentially do to the sport. And well it wouldn't be pulling without the rules being bent. However it is obvious most are cheating you can tell even if you're not experienced in mechanics that its gotten out of hand. My opinion would have to be that if you are top in points at the end of the year at one of the last few pulls you should be torn down for inspections. I have frequently heard people say in the post that the cheaters are the winners...well...lets prove it. If somebody wants to stand up and tech the tractors I think it would bring justice to the sport and maybe the organization should have more officers to adapt for its needs and amounts of classes. Rules aren't put there to be disobeyed. I think the RPM's (frequently argued issue at the pulls) should be checked off the harmonic balancer via photo tach not off a box and should be checked at the end of the run before leaving the tractor.(perhaps by somebody from the truck class who wouldn't be biased to a tractor person) Rpm's should be a minor infraction and should have to be shown that they are fixed before returning to pull again and they should have to forfeit their run (get DQ'ed). As for cubic inches im sure there is probably only a very small handful that are actually obeying the amount set by the current rules so if they still have a big enough problem with the tractors (and yes i know this would hurt the sport but its my opinion not yours) they should tell everyone they will be torn down at the next event and see how few show up. You wouldn't have to tear them down it would just give you a good idea of who is scared to put up or shut up. I also think they should get a fuel tester and dip everyones fuel on and off because eventually these guys will be running nitro mixes and getting away with it honestly you can smell the difference in fuel or atleast I could at Rantoul. I know alot of you will disagree with me but thats just my opinion on what i think would better the class and make everyone honest and it would bring more good pullers to the organization ("if the world was perfect.") Also the way you guys are talking about Ryan is completely uncalled for and I'm sure if it was one of the "group" they talked about earlier this thread wouldn't exist. 
T.J. Zollaman |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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Rantoul Saturday night was IPA not ITPA.. Friday nights ITPA show was rained out... IPA allows high pressure water injection.. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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?.?&`@
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I know that was an example though and i spectate at both organizations pulls since i live in the Urbana area. Neither of them are good on the whole rules end of things for this class (profarm/farmstock) but all the other classes (trucks, mods) seem to do perfectly fine with their rules with (no bickering) which is what i think is odd. I guess what I'm saying is that he seems to have been singled out and there have been many instances where some one could have protested another tractor but no one seemed to want to put their money down and im sure if faced with the same thing most of the people in this class for both organizations would deny a tear down. I just don't think its right that he was in 4th place which isn't even the top 3 and he was protested....I think you would have been better off protesting some one out of the top 3 because if the same thing happened which im sure it would you will still gain a spot.
T.J. Z. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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There was WAY more to it than that.. I think you will find there is much more bickering about our rules on here than anywhere else. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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lenny is the bickering about your class rules or the classless so called organization you belong to? which by the way has lost all credibility. no one will think these tractors are legit. this could be the end to your beloved itpa |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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Not saying there is NO bickering in class.. But there is very little.. Most of the bickering about our class is on here by people that do not pull in our class and i'll leave it at that. I doubt that will sink the ITPA. Been around since when 1968? And has the vast majority of the pulls in the state. I personnally remember back when they were an NTPA member state and we got The Puller magazine they had the schedules of all the member states and ITPA was by far the longest list of any of the others. Not saying its flawless! But I haven't found one that fits my needs any better. |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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?.?&'@
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I was told about this post and looked it up myself. I didn't know they bickered about it online until now but I always hear it in the pits when I'm walking past peoples trailers and tractors etc. My opinion would be good only if the world (was) perfect thats all I was saying.
T.J. Z |
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Re: Checking Out and the ITPA
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Anonymous User
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Yeah it usually comes on here about this time every year. RPM's this Cubic Inch that.. Everyone is against the class but we still seem to get numbers in the class... BTW... Opinions are good means your at least paying attention. |
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