12:43:43pm, Monday, April 29, 2024
|
How pulling dies
|
Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Chrysler to go all electric
For you bowtie boys, there's this. Ford previously said they would go all-electric in Europe by 2030, but I would not be surprised to see them fall in line with the others in the US. Between this and the growth of driverless/AI vehicles (yes, including semis and even tractors), I can see this being how the sport fades into oblivion in a decade. Not because there won't be people hanging on to gas or diesel vehicles, but because 1) governments may impose draconian measures that raise prices through the roof to operate gas or diesel vehicles, and 2) eventually parts to maintain vehicles may become scarce, or aftermarket manufacturers may face stringent measures that make it cost prohibitive to make a profit. Can you imagine a workable way of pulling with all-electric anything? Oh, btw, those "green" vehicles run on lithium batteries. 2 problems with that- 1) the manufacturing process with these batteries is anything but clean, and 2) lithium is a rare-earth metal. There is only so much of it. Want to guess which nation the current regime pulled out of last August has a decent amount of unmined lithium? Want to guess which nation that brought us this pandemic is going to mine it? |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Team one
|
I see where you’re going with this but I have to disagree, yes things in the consumer market are going to change and yes advancements will be made to go all electric, but gas and diesel vehicles are not just going to disappear, how many 20 year old trucks are still on the road ? How many 30-40 year old tractors are still used on the farm? The old stuff will not just disappear because something new comes along it will take some time and as far as this changing pulling it will but it will take more than a decade because we are at a point in pulling where you don’t actually need a tractor to build a “tractor” all you need is the parts and the fuel and this country is far too dependent on fossil fuels to rid itself of them in 15 years and depending on which political party steers the ship next time may see these “deadlines” pushed back . |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Ihfan
|
It's getting to political also. Having a pull for certain people is a joke to. Better set back and look at the big picture. |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579 |
This thread illustrates the need for pulling to use biofuels as a base fuel. I understand the obstacles using those fuels but what better way to sustain the sport? Using "renewable" fuels puts the sport in a positive light and could "grow" it in an unexpected way, in my opinion.
Green energy is highly political and the reality is that it will take several decades to distance ourselves from fossil fuels and develop reasonable economical alternative fuels for internal combustion engines. China is building coal fired power plants and we're shuttering them...so which is the more realistic long term approach? Bryan Lively - 
    |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Registered: 09/23/2008 Posts: 632 |
I think i will buy a team of belgians and the neighbor has some percherons, maybe the enviro people won't cry too loudly but hte peta ans spa bunch will apopelectic |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
There is still horse pulls. I think pulling will be ok for a long time except in the "country of California." |
|
It dies when.....
|
Registered: 07/06/2017 Posts: 369 |
Pulling dies when it takes a $500k Tractor to be drug around the country to compete for a $2000 prize..... |
|
Re: It dies when.....
|
Registered: 11/09/2008 Posts: 42 |
Well said, Cody. |
|
Re: It dies when.....
|
Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
?? Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2022 11:37PM by PULLMX. |
|
Re: It dies when.....
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Cody,
I guess I have a different opinion, there are numerous levels of pulling just like in most any sport. If someone wants to run a mod tractor there are about 10 or 12 different levels, choose one that fits your budget. We ran the econo mod class for about 15 years because that is all we could afford. As we could afford it we stepped up though the classes all the way through NTPA GN. After aspiring to pull at the GN level for all of my pulling career I finally reached that goal. Once there I discovered that it was a little too rich for my blood so backed up to the RN level. Do I regret that or blame the cost of the GN for me not pulling there...no I could afford it if I wanted I just wasn't comfortable doing it. Some people might blame the issues in pulling on a guy in TN hoarding pulling tractors...just kidding. Most people build their way up through the ranks over a very long time rather than buying a $500K tractor. How much do you suppose it would cost to buy a top fuel dragster turn key? Your former fellow TN puller Jerry Stewart told a fan that had asked him how he could afford a 4 engine mod...I've been doing this for many many years and built it up over the years. That is how most pullers I know have done it. S'no Farmer |
|
Re: It dies when.....
|
Registered: 07/06/2017 Posts: 369 |
I agree with the building up to another level. I get that & agree. However the cost to compete on the state level vs the national level have become pretty equal (other than travel costs). I had this discussion with a fellow competitor the other day about how the days of building parts & proving something in your shop are about gone. Pullers use their wallets way more than they use their minds on every level. Just a sad reality. |
|
Re: It dies when.....
|
Fan 2
|
The reality is $500,000 is pocket change to some folks. There is nothing wrong with that! More power to them! Glad some of them spend it pulling so we have a show to watch! Most of them employ a lot of folks as well. Hopefully when Biden and his crew get done wrecking this country, they'll still be able to! |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Face in crowd
|
Aren't you jumping the gun a bit? Electric vehicles sales makes up about 4% of the market in the U.S. today and I got news for you. There will be diesel trucks sold in this country for many years to come. So I would say that we should revisit this topic in about 25 years. |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Horse pulling will be considered cruelty to animals GAME OVER!!! |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Grid cant handle it
|
You are correct, there is no alternative. The electric grid cant handle it, in 25 years the grid still wont handle it, rolling black outs in californification proves the greenies are full of it, the removal of coal and nuke. Solar and wind power is a standby energy, it actually costs the power companies money because the wind and sun dont cooperate. |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
I'd say that Cody Nailed it. Average ticket prices for everyone's beloved Louisville pull are around $40 bucks a piece. They advertise over 60,000 fans will attend. $2,400,000 before you factor in concessions and entry fees. What's the payout? I'm sure Freedom Hall isn't cheap, but it sure as hell doesn't cost a million bucks to rent the place for a week. So where is all the money going???? |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Kristy Moore
|
it begins when the 2 fake grand kids suck all the money out of grandpa- just to about kill theirselves !!!! lol - |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
I just finished this past weekend as the MC for the Summit Racing Show Car Series. It's a lot the same. Lots of dollars or do most of it yourself. Time to build and tour the vehicle. Be retired or have a great support system so you can go play.
Spend $xxx,xxx to get back $x. However, if your passion is pulling of car show competition the passion is the same. The love of competition, the determination, THE PEOPLE and the pride of accomplishment are what drive the automotive/motorsport culture. Same with Hot Rod Power Tour and golf and boating, etc. If you run a GN tour you can be proud of that feat, not many can boast that fact. So when, what date, is diesel illegal in North America and when is an all electric vehicle mandatory? WOW NEWS FLASH our power grid is not efficient now to deliver even reasonable supply of electricity, great, however fuel, carburation, economy, and horsepower have evolved over the years. BIGFOOT built an electric monster truck several years ago.....Haven't seen many ALL electric shows going on. But when they do and they will, gearheads will figure out a way to go faster and pull farther. |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Paull
|
It took 50 yrs to get the network of convenience stores, -service stations have mostly vanished and quick fix is no longer an option, look at Texas last winter, look at grid lock, look at brown outs and afternoon evenings without air and washing, come on people, batteries aren't free, green or long lasting, we can hardly keep gas in the tanks let alone millions of batteries to be made, charged, recharged, - and to those that believe the stories about 300 plus miles on a charge, -GOOD LUCK ON THAT PIPE DREAM. And the power to charge those batteries( more than 6-8 hours required) fast charge costs more and ruins the long Life. Now even in Rochester,Mn at Mayo, you can only find a few places to charge, and doctors have way more disposable cash than most regular folks.Sure - we are headed that way, but not this decade. Electric has awesome power,high torque, look at trains and big rock and quarry trucks, big cranes that scoop millions of tons of dirt quickly, HOWEVER THEY USE DUAL POWER, diesels to power the electric generators. It takes Power to make electricity. That little plug in in the wall is not free by any means or as green as people think, people are driving fast, very fast, and the new EVs are fast, but just as all properties apply, you go fast, so does the time or short fullness of the useable battery energy.Electric tools are evolving with 24-60 volts and more, good strides are being made, but use those tools hard and the charge is gone quickly too. My son's state of the art EV is great, sleek quite, fast, wonderful, but only gets 150 miles in the winter, takes power to warm the batteries, to warm your hinder(backside), and cold makes all things more difficult, half our country is cold(cooler) for half the yr. Fossil fuels are here to keep the world turning for awhile yet. |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Unfortunately I agree with much of what The Original Michael posted. I wrote an opinion article about this a few years ago but I never posted it because it was too depressing.
Regarding Electric Vehicles: The push for electric vehicles is a huge problem for ALL motorsports, not because to the fuel source, or the grid, or distribution, etc... but because it normalizes people not using internal combustion engines. When internal combustion engines are less and less common in general society it also means that less and less people will relate to them. We generally relate to the things we use on a regular basis. When that happens less and less people will care about modifying any type of internal combustion engine for performance. Now, I'm not saying everything will go electric... for applications like long haul trucking and farming electric vehicle just doesn't make sense and it will take a monumental leap in battery technology for those industries to change fuels. However electric will pick up more and more market share in the next few years. Regarding Self Driving Tractors and AI: The farm industry is changing and less and less people will have any experience driving a tractor (or truck or car) in a field. Again, it's a about being able to relate to something. People will gradually move towards driverless cars and watching someone drive will be less and less interesting. What happens when most tractors are driverless and most people don't drive cars? Will there be any interest in watching people drive a vehicle they can't relate to? Probably some, but less than today. Look at the pullers and fans of pulling, for the most part the sport is trending to older and older men. That's not sustainable and when the younger crowd loses touch with the vehicles it will make severely limit the sport. I think some motorsports will weather the storm better than others... I think Supercross is non-stop action and it's amazingly athletic so it has potential to fill an extreme motorsports niche They are also jumping higher and riding faster every season so the sport evolves from a fan perspective. I think Monster Trucks are unique as well since it's non-stop action and there's always something to watch with minimal downtime . The trucks do some amazing tricks and they continue to push the boundaries with newer/higher/better tricks all the time so you can see something new every year. Tractor pulling has too much down time between hooks... two track events seldom get it right and as we've discussed numerous times drag racing both tracks at the same time doesn't help eliminate that down time in between passes. My kids get bored... most kids get bored between hooks. Tractor pulling also doesn't look much different from year to year... they go the same distance and same speed... heck most classes go the same speed and the sled stops them at the same spot. We've all seen times when Unlimited Mods put on a worse show than a Light Pro! The advancements in HP and the increased cost don't always equal a better show (fan experience) The boundaries that get pushed from year to year in pulling don't show up in show quality because we just change the sled to compensate. I think pulling can be better. I think it would have the best chance at survival if it addressed some of the issues with rule changes along with taking a serious look at the sport from an entertainment standpoint rather than only from a competition standpoint. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
That was a big thumbs up i couldnt have said it any better even if i could spell |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
I long for the day that we are able to send rockets up in space with batteries ONLY! lol |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
PP
|
Clark, if we went back to horses, my horse would probably fart under strain and then the idiots in Washington that was complaining about the cows emissions would just get all fired up again !!! PEDAL PULLING is where we'll all end up !!!! |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
PP,
Dang and I'm getting too old for Peddle Pulling, besides that I think I kicked a rod out of my left leg!!! S'no Farmer |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
One route to the possible demise of diesel pulling (especially trucks with VINs) is the EPA.
Let's face it, any diesel making enough power to win its class is going to be rolling coal during some or all of the hook. It's unavoidable if you have to use restricted turbos to keep classes somewhat even. Nitrous would help clean some of it up, but everyone knows the fuel rates would be pushed back up and you're back to square one. Not a permanent solution IMO. The coal rolling that everyone pays to see (competitor or spectator) is gonna get us. Someone somewhere is going to file a lawsuit against a pull or a fair claiming that it caused lung damage to to someone who didn't understand the risks, or will claim they didn't have the risks explained to them, which is a form of negligence. Once an event gets under pressure of a lawsuit, it's going to cause insurance troubles and it'll be a big legal snarl. The promoters will be under heavy pressure to back out or eliminate diesel classes. A key point is that gas and alcohol engines emit things are aren't healthy either, but it's outta sight - outta mind. Any idiot can point to a 300' smoke cloud and say "not good". So I think the diesel side of things is going to be on borrowed time. My own kids have said that if I wasn't in the sport, they wouldn't support it, because the visual is all it takes to convince them that this is a "bad" activity. They know full well that a pass lasts ~12 seconds and in the big scheme of things, is small potatoes. But, they have been indoctrinated by the schools and colleges that we need to do "everything we can to save the planet." Sustainability is front and center with millions of people because they believe that the end of the earth is a crisis already in motion, and the doubters are killing their future. A very polarizing issue. I love pulling with all my heart but as a diesel guy, I think the crosshairs are on us. One big pull too close to some liberal city will probably be the first domino. |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
I agree 1000% with everything you stated. I am an alky burner. The only difference is no one can SEE what I put in the air though it's just as bad. Maybe we should all go back to horses. And I mean EVERYONE! Then OAC could complain more! |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
hoss
|
A Horse!? Yeah, man! Real Horsepower!! Hook on the cart or hitch up the family buggy. Modern Transportation, man!!!!!!!
I just really love dodging those horsey brown bullets spattered on the road (lots of amish thruways) out here in horse and buggy land.  
At least those horsey brown bullets are easily recyclable. That should make aoc & her green folly buddies happy. We need to get donkeys pulling. That should represent her party quite well. Oh, wait, that would be animal cruelty. Hmmm, but aoc's party is human cruelty. Ohhh, so depressing!!!!!! Let's just go back to tractor and truck pulling. And enjoy ourself. |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Dieselpower,
About 5 years ago there was a pull in some small town USA that had a lot of diesel truck classes and to promote the pull a whole bunch of diesel trucks were going to parade through town and "Roll Coal" everywhere they went. I thought that was the worst idea I'd ever heard of. The general public HATES Rolling Coal. Don't get me wrong because I like the diesel trucks but at the same time I do not like sitting at a stoplight and getting smoked out when the light changes. One night on my way home from a pull we were on a curvy state road so there wasn't a chance for people to pass me. When we came to a hill there was a passing lane, about 6 diesel pickups passed me and by the time they were all passed me I literally could not see the road...not good PR. S'no Farmer |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Registered: 02/23/2012 Posts: 542 |
I agree and I do remember this
I’ve always said that some tree hugger is gonna follow some punk rollin coal to a pull and that will be demise of pulling once the wrong person gets a stink started it’ll be all she wrote |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Really how pulling dies is going to be from this covid this President and all the money thats been printed and gave away and whats going to be gave away befor its over a depression is how pulling is going to die |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Lewis, I don't agree that pulling will die in the next 3 years. That's all that Biden will serve. If/when pulling dies it will because the next generation will have little or no interest in the sport. There are so many options for not only motorsports but also other kinds of entertainment. The cost, travel, and time away from family events will weigh heavy on the next generation and will be a determining factor. The county fair was once the backbone of pulling, now you can have a country artist or a demolition derby and have less headaches and just as much revenue. Pulling always has a chance to improve their shows and seldom take it. |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 762 |
Dick, I don't want to put words in Lewis's mouth, but I suspect he may be talking about the financial trainwreck that has been put in motion over the last 20 or more years and accelerated to warp speed by the Federal Governments response to this Covid 'crisis'. This is probably a topic for the other forum so I'll put my thoughts on it there. |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Supertiquer - thanks.
If it came right down to it, I really don't think alcohol-converted diesel pickups would be a bad show at all. The technical challenge would be a lot of fun, if you can afford it. Follow in the path of the tractors. As usual, LOL. |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
LOL  I am waiting for the day that we alky people are told we need AEF(alcohol exhaust fluid) in our pulling vehicles!
|
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
dieselpower, Most of the 5.9L Cummins diesel engines used in LLSS are just that = Diesel engines converted to Alcohol. They make unbelievable power for Alcohol and a 3x4 turbo. |
|
Re: How pulling dies
|
PullMX....thanks. Us truck guys can't keep up with the plethora of tractor classes and what each one uses!
I'd like to see what could be done with an alky Dmax. Could be a hoot The heads are really amenable to spark plugs. Slap on some LS-based coils and voila...
|
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,646, Posts: 229,713, Members: 3,325.
This forum: Topics: 37,067, Posts: 225,904.
Global: Topics: 38,646, Posts: 229,713, Members: 3,325.
This forum: Topics: 37,067, Posts: 225,904.
Our newest member JD_8520
