01:11:20am, Monday, May 06, 2024
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Would you rather watch this?
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
video: [www.facebook.com]
The video is a modified from 1979. There has been lots of discussion about rules, cost, etc. One question I would ask is- would you rather watch pulls like the one in the video link, or modern pulls with greater horsepower and speed? No right or wrong answer necessarily. I appreciate how it was, and some of my favorite pulling memories are from that era. However, given today's crowds, I believe the modern higher speed pulls would tend to draw larger crowds in this era than a slower speed, heavier sled type of pulls of yesteryear. Put another way- if a modern tractor class was ran for spectators of past eras, I could see the appeal of the speed. If a class from that era was ran for modern spectators, I'm not sure how enthused the majority would be. |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523 |
Naturally I'd rather watch today's style....
That being said ,I'd prefer those type mods with a modern sled,the sled could make a late 70s mod class be much more enjoyable to watch,and participate in...... |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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Paull
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Some where in the middle, that sled was way to heavy to start,middle ground is always a good place to start. |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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dependent
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C'mon Michael. Certainly you can find a video much more appropriate than that almost deadweight so called transfer sled where the box hardly moved, to make a comparison to. Most transfer sleds back then were far more compatible for the 5 Mods than that video. Find a video with Utz, Hutch, Harness, "Sandpyper", Larry Jones, some of the other hotdogs of the time, even with their single supercharged engine.
A sled like that is a perfect example why Elenbaum revolutionized the sport, with his complete new design of a sled and how it works. The pullers real quickly loved it, once they (soon) figured out what they needed to do in their tactical driving technique, especially off the start line. And Elenbaum built several sleds to replace a sled like that heavy beast. And many of those types of sled, eventually were either mothballed or vastly reengineered to conform to the Elenbaum style workings. He led the way and many followed with their much improved sled redesign. Elenbaum sleds certainly allowed the puller to get off the line much easier, allowed a speedier hook, with a lighter sled and a lower design than those original heavy, bulky sleds. Today's sleds are an extension of what Elenbaum successfully proved. However, today's sleds get carried away with way too much track speed. 30+mph on a 300' track in a few seconds and then trying to stop the pull vehicle, sure puts a lot of stress upon the sled. Some of those sleds really creak & groan to accomplish the pull ending mission. Someday, another big time pull vehicle / sled accident will occur. 2 years ago at Rantoul, IL, Luedtke sled box malfunctioned and it was too much of a parallel of personally witnessing the '98 Fort Recovery Walsh accident. Fortunately, Rantoul has a long run off stretch and the diesel tractor engine was able to get shut down without it being a high revving runaway. We need to slow the current speed pulling down, prior to a big time accident. When that occurs, the insurance carrier may produce a result the pulling community most likely will not like. |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
It's an interesting question but I also don't think it's a particularly fair question.... it's a loaded question (just my $.02). No longer is track speed dependent on horsepower... it's more of a function of sled setting and sled setup.
If you want to know if fans want slow track speed or fast track speed I'd say the majority of fans prefer a faster track speed. If you want to know if fans want 2000hp or 5000hp I'd say the majority wouldn't know the difference if the sled was setup appropriately for the given power. I prefer sleds from our current era because of the speed they allow vehicles to go. Clearly the sleds are so good now days that it can even make 500hp tractor fly down the track at amazing speeds. I also prefer the professionalism of the modern era. The paint jobs are amazing and the craftsmanship and machining allow for some truly beautiful designs. I know many don't want to hear this but horsepower... doesn't matter as much, a good class of 4.1's or Light Pros put on every bit as good of a show as the Pro Stock class does. A good class of 2 or 3-engine Mods can put on every bit the show that 5-engine Unlimiteds do. Not trying to pick apart your question, it just seems like it not entirely fair. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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Paull
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Jake- as many of my post state, people are the problem, cause and solution, however we all have ideas, thoughts and conflicts, too many separate ideas when one common goal is needed. Fair, nothing in Life is fair, health, wealth distribution, weather, equality, or even friends and family bicker. Too many factors catering to more than one optimum solution. In pulling we have a fair amount of variety now, GN, local fairs, huge antique only gatherings, many big fancy high horse power shows and venues, some mix and match, but it will never suit "ONE SIZE FITS ALL". Variety is the spice of Life, so is unfairness, or we would all be bored to death. Most of us enjoy the more modern type sled, fast high drama pulls, but some where, we NEED to monitor and moderate the speed, danger and ongoing need for more speed and power.Cell phones have three and more cameras, why, because people but them, Why? One camera is great. When the sleds alter the weight and systems to stop all vehicles pulling -no matter HP, many people don't know the differences from PS, LLSS,Farm Stock,or most classes with the distances and speeds almost the same.Most discussion on here are about big national venues and pulls, the smaller more stock, antiques type pulls still have the good ole boys slower hooks if the sled operators choose to not use the drop pan, - that is not fair for low speed - low power type classes. To be Fair, means something so different for us all. |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
So this begs the question, just from a visual perspective which class puts on a better show , Lt. PS/ 4.1 PS or a PS, a LSS or a OSS, a NTPA Unlimited Mod or a PPL Mod? Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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Registered: 01/23/2011 Posts: 241 |
I am not a novice to pulling, but it has all been on the local level. As an onlooker, unless there is an easy visual difference between the classes, such as Modifieds versus Super Farm, I cannot tell one tractor class from another.
I do not like a class where are all of the competitors are within inches of each other due to an aggressive sled setting that drops the "anchor" at the end of the track. |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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billee,
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Depends on the mood that I am in, sometimes a fast loud class with RUMBLE AND FEEL THE NOISE IS GREAT. Other times a nice pickup class with some breakage suits me better, most of the time unlimiteds and semis with power are always a treat because of the rarity.Wild alcohol tractors are fun, the roar of the tires is interesting, not many have heard that, -or if they did, not aware of the tire noise. A class that has mega torque and can pull down a lot and keep going is fascinating to watch, as a mechanical kind of guy, knowing turbos and such,PS, SFs make it look easy. |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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Registered: 08/16/2021 Posts: 306 |
Dick just my opinion on your question....I'll use the Lt PS 4.1 and PS as my example. I'm an avid fan so I know the technical differences between them. But from a purely visual stand point they all pull the same distance due to the sled settings. I would say the only real visual difference would be wheel speed. The PS has more wheel speed than a 4.1 and I'd think that most fans could see that. But as far as horsepower yeah I know there's a difference but due to sled settings your casual fan wouldn't have a clue based on watching. |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
That video shows one thing we have an economy hot rod class naturally asperated v/8 pretty much the same chassis except for 18.4 tires that sometimes hit 30 mph just shows how todays sleds could make all classes more bud jet friendly if restrictions were in place and still give the fan in the stands the same 30 mph 350 ft RUSH |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
That depends on what someone likes? Someone from an urban or suburban area may identify better with trucks with truck bodies they see around town every day. Modifieds may be a compromise (no sheet metal, but the big fenders allow similar type of advertising; same engine as truck classes, just more of them, but big tires). For tractor classes, I like the look of the 30.5 x 32 tires better than 24.5, but that's just preference. |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I don't think my father is trying to compare all classes to each other, but rather similar classes. Not comparing trucks to Mods or Tractors to Minis. He's asking the same question I asked in my post above... Let me phrase his question like this: What puts on a better show: Lt. PS/ 4.1 PS versus a PS? Next question: What puts on a better show: a LSS versus a OSS? Next question: What puts on a better show: a NTPA Unlimited Mod versus a PPL Mod? Look at it like the comparison of similar classes with minimal visual differences but horsepower differences. Does horsepower matter for show quality when making those class comparisons for similar classes? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Paull, I'm saying the question wasn't fair. I'm not talking about fairness on the track or fairness in life or anything like that. Simply the question "would you rather watch pulls like the one in the video link, or modern pulls with greater horsepower and speed?" It's not a "fair" question because it has an "unfair" assumption built into the question, it assumes/implies horsepower is the factor that changes track speed over the decades. It's not, horsepower isn't what affects track speed, sled setting does. Which is why a modern sled can make a modern low horsepower tractor go faster than an old Mod with 5x the power. It's all in the sled. Hence it's an "unfair" question. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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Paull
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All things, questions, fairness,Life and more can be debated, -but why. We already know that offerings of all kinds will be made, good, bad, in between, so what's the point.if we have 12 posters, we have positive, dissenting, negative and some no comments, but never a majority. Everyone agrees that accidents are sport longevity threatening, but not many are willing to sacrifice. All the rules discussions, class issues, safety concerns all are debate riddled, and little if any constructive advances, |
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Re: Would you rather watch this?
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Here's why all of us should debate: there was debate and comments on this page and the NTPA quickly made a rule change and added a second cable (yes, Larry reads this page). I'd say that lead to a constructive advance/improvement. There have been many debates on this page that have lead to constructive change in the sport. Debate, discussion, conversation can raise awareness to problems and ideas that otherwise wouldn't be thought of or implemented.
In fact the idea of a tire cage-like structure over the engine was a great idea that I had never thought of before. It opened my eyes to a very cheap and effective solution that would be easy to implement for any chassis type and any tractor class. The discussion of banning all OEM cast iron is another interesting debate/discussion. I don't agree with all of what has been said, but it's an interesting discussion now that details and idea are being shared. Debating what people like to watch is pretty important because we all make assumptions based on what we like. Even though I think The Original Michael's question was loaded/unfair I still think the root of what I think he was getting at is worth of debate. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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