NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 30, 2022 12:38PM
Observed NTPA catering to one local tractor that couldn't make weight in the LLSS class this weekend in Ocala, Florida, class was advertised as 6250lbs then was changed to 6400lbs because one local tractor is heavy and has done absolutely nothing in the last 4 or 5 yrs to lighten it up and other tractors of the same size an brand has no problem whatsoever obtaining weight, when questioning a sponsor/promoter was told the guy was his friend and he would be aloud to pull - now -- NTPA CLAIMS TO BE THE ELETE/ THE ONE THAT EVERYONE ONE FOLLOWS-- THE ONE THAT EVERYONE SETS THEIR RULES BY- THE GRANDDADDY OF ALL PULLING--- JUST ASK THEM THEY'LL TELL YOU THEY ARE !!!!!! Several Pullers in the class felt cheated and were upset NONE thought it was right or OK, several said they wouldn't be back !!!! Ocala you dropped the ball on this and it will come back to bite you !!!!
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 30, 2022 01:14PM
This is the dumbest post ever..... So what... Obviously you have a beef with the guy.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 30, 2022 01:31PM
Nope, no beef whatsoever, just dont think its right for the majority of the pullers in the class that drove 10 plus hrs there to be lied to, Class should not have been advertised as one thing ( 6250lbs ) then changed to accommodate one person, it doesn't happen anywhere else that i know of ( maybe it does ) idk
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 30, 2022 03:18PM
Quote
F-30puller
This is the dumbest post ever..... So what... Obviously you have a beef with the guy.

No I really can't agree with it being a dumb post. I say that because I was involved with a pull 12 years ago(non sanctioned) where that very same thing happened. A class was advertised at 10,000 lbs. and at the pull it was changed to 11,000. I had a puller come up to me as I was the tech man at the scales and ask me what they were supposed to weigh 10,000? I said to him yes that is the weight of the class. He then said to me that all others in his class were told 11,000 and he was ok with that but didn't bring enough weight with him. That was the first I knew anything about it. I called the person that was putting the pull on over and he told the puller in question that they changed it because we weren't sure "so and so" could make the weight. Observer has a good point here.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 30, 2022 10:18PM
I agree with 1000 pounds... 150 at that weight could make a little bit of a difference but not much. Now if they advertised 6250 and the said nope now it's 6000 i'd be mad. Just have fun people. Pulled way to many years with strict rules beyond safety concerns.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 12:46AM
I am sure it wasn't the NTPA directly, who was in charge of the pull made that call. Was it right maybe not, if the guy weighed 6400 then you should have too. If there was safety violations with said tractor then is when problems are created. Did he win with the extra 150#?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2022 12:47AM by David Runkle(earls dream).
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 12:55AM
David, THATS NOT THE POINT !!! The point is everyone is preaching NATIONAL RULES for this class-- NTPA DIDN'T FOLLOW THEIR OWN RULES !!!! How can everyone get on the same page if the Granddaddy of pulling wont follow their own rules ? FYI no he didn't win, pretty much everyone else had to run back to the trailer an get more weight. Point is ---- tractor has has yrs to lighten up and hasnt" they keep letting it slide" instead of telling them their going to have to comply. He's a heck of a nice guy, no issues there whatsoever, just needs to light hus tractor up or go on up to the heavier class that they offer.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 01:02AM
This has to be the stupidest thing I've ever read. A real life Karen. Who tf cares about 150# that sort of thing happens alot more than you know about. Yeah send someone home from Florida over 150#.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2022 12:26AM by John Murray.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 01:14AM
Durrr -- you must be him !!! AGAIN POINT MISSED ---- NTPA DIDN'T FOLLOW THEIR OWN RULE !!!! THAT IS THE POINT !!!!
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 01:26AM
I have to ask the question here.......is it possible the promoter is the one who asked that the weight limit be altered for this class at this event? Because I could totally see a promoter asking for this based on the likely reason of trying to ensure all competitors were able to hook. Not saying it is right, but have absolutely seen this happen before.

Don't be so quick to hang it on NTPA.

If everyone else could run the same extra 150, it obviously wasn't a deal breaker.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 01:54PM
F-30puller YOU COMPLETELY MISS THE POINT-- "IT - HAS - NOTHING- TO - DO- WITH- WEIGHT----- ITS SIMPLE ------ NTPA DID- NOT - FOLLOW- THEIR- OWN - RULES...... PERIOD !!!!! --- GEEZ - HOW - HARD - IS - THAT- TO - UNDERSTAND !!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 03:27PM
Observer wow bless your heart. Were you there do you run the class? If you don't like it don't EVER EVER pull with them again. Others will appreciate it.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 01, 2022 12:18AM
Quote
F-30puller
Observer wow bless your heart. Were you there do you run the class? If you don't like it don't EVER EVER pull with them again. Others will appreciate it.

Wrong answer. In fact that type of answer is why PPL has grown. I know of plenty of puller who have left NTPA specifically because of that attitude and many won't return... or if they do they hold their nose and only return for Bowling Green simply because it's BG. That's not a good business model.

If rules aren't enforce then why bother having rules? Sure the weight change seems minor, even petty to some but it's actually pretty important in this motorsport. The lighter the class the more important it becomes (150 lbs. to a Pros Stock vs. 150 lbs. to a LSS is a huge difference). It's a slap in the face to all the pullers in the class who built their tractors to the rules. There are guys that spent a great deal of money to knock off an extra 200 lbs. and it's an insult to them and their hard work.

For all you LLSS haters... this also isn't just a LLSS issue, this has happened in the Unlimited Mod class and the LSS class on occasion and even for entire seasons. It's be overlooked but that doesn't mean it isn't a problem. It's a cancer that gets overlooked.

The Promotor could have let his friend hook exhibition... or could have let him make a test pass immediately after the class for the benefit of the fans and his friend. There are other solutions that would not have brought the integrity of the promotor or the NTPA into question. Make no mistake that what we're talking about... integrity. Integrity isn't just something that matters on the big issues...


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 01, 2022 12:40AM
Jake this whole thing should have been solved at the scale with all the class deciding if this was ok with everyone. I do think it was the wrong decision. But everyone should have had a voice and this falls right on the promoter or person in charge for letting this happen.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2022 12:42AM by David Runkle(earls dream).
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 01, 2022 02:31AM
I do think that could have been a better way to handle this, but it still has flaws. The downside with that is sometimes guys aren't comfortable speaking up against something like that in these types of situations. I know I've held my tongue in meetings when there was something I disagreed with only to find out after that fact that the majority of the group was also in disagreement but nobody was comfortable speaking out. People can argue that we got what we deserved for not speaking up, but it makes for a disgruntled/fractured group, and that's something that nobody wants. That's why clear and concise rules are as important as following and policing the rules and that's the job of the sanctioning body. I also think that's why clear and concise communication is also needed. If this was the promotors decision then they should own it, if it was the NTPA's decision they should own it. If they were both in agreement they should be clear about that as well.

To me the key in this whole thing is looking at it from the perspective of how do we get better? How do we take responsibility and how do we communicate better to minimize these types of issues from happening again.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 01, 2022 11:45PM
Calm down. Everyone understands you. When people disagree with your position, it doesn't automatically mean that they do not understand.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 02:03AM
Adapt , improvise, and overcome
Be glad you had a place to pull in warm weather
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 02:48AM
36 Saturday night isn't all that warm! It was 28 in Iowa, but usually yes nice place to pull in the winter.

As for the rest of this post. Type... type... type... delete.... delete... delete.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 12:28PM
If the 6400 pound guy would have done some pre adapting or staid home no issue 30 others wouldnt have had to kiss but B bailey to much kissing butt goes on
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 01:19AM
And THIS, lady's and gentlemen is why LLSS will never be seen on the GN circuit.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 03:13AM
Then, HP, why is the Unlimited Mods seen on the GN/SN, since this same exact ordeal has transpired for years, actually decades. Do not just pin it only on LLSS.

And for those of you saying this is the dumbest post ever, obviously you guys cannot read AND comprehend. Go back to the original post.
And what do you discover:
1) the puller with the weight infraction is a "local" puller. Thus did not drive hundreds/thousand miles.
2) said puller is a "friend" of sponsor/promoter. Umm, why is it their ultimate decision to override the sanctioning body rules?????
3) said puller has not made attempts to lighten the tractor.
And beside, it has been known when the 2021 pull ended, that NTPA would be there for 2022 and have the LLSS class. Wonder what 'excuse' said puller has for not conforming to the weight rule?

Also, since NTPA had listed for months that Region LSS was on this schedule, there are no results for LSS. What happened?

Overall, I thought it was a very low puller attendance number.

I see that NTPA has changed the Region geography states. Region 2 is changed. Region 5 now combined with Region 3. No Region 4 listed.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 03:33AM
Comprehension was not the issue. Understood the whole ghing. All I was saying is so what... There are far more problems than letting a local guy pull 150# heavier than advertised. I bet you a plug nickel those that were there pulled anyways. If they didn't add the 150# then that's their own decision.
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Rules are meant to be followed or they are not! January 31, 2022 07:05AM
It’s simple rules are there for a reason, follow them! In a class like this 150lbs could be the difference in your tractor having/not having the ability to hook up. NTPA does a poor job on this front. Scaling has been an issue in R2 and am sure others as well, at the Enderle the scale goes on a nice concrete pad, at the pull at the Champaign county fair (same grounds) it goes on the horse track on an incline. If the rule book says 6200, 6250, 8000, 8500 etc that’s what you weigh. I don’t care what the scales read at the last pull, don’t care how many weights you ran. If you have to take weight off you take it off, if you add 100 you get to add 100, but the rule book exists for a reason, stick to it or throw it away. Period!
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull, To; and. January 31, 2022 02:32PM
The difference is;
Nobody complained, and moaned, and cried like a baby incessantly about the "weight issue".
Days and days now!
Making the SF class look like rookies at complaining.
And THAT is one heck of an accomplishment!
I think ALL have learned their lesson from that.
Time will tell.
Sad really. LLSS is a cool class with mostly cool people.
Remember, Santa is watching.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull, To; and. January 31, 2022 02:46PM
It was questioned and complained about " simply put " was announced that he was local and a friend and they was going to let him pull and that was that !!! Its not about them letting him pull " ITS ABOUT NTPA NOT FOLLOWING THEIR OWN RULES !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull, To; and. February 01, 2022 01:31AM
Quote
Observer
It was questioned and complained about " simply put " was announced that he was local and a friend and they was going to let him pull and that was that !!! Its not about them letting him pull " ITS ABOUT NTPA NOT FOLLOWING THEIR OWN RULES !!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe ITS NOT NTPA'S FAULT! MAYBE IT IS THE PROMOTERS FAULT!
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 02:04PM
Quote
HP
And THIS, lady's and gentlemen is why LLSS will never be seen on the GN circuit.

I get what you are saying and I also get observers' point.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 08:34AM
You all talking about ah no big deal oh but did he win are complete idiots and should not be pulling at all if that is your mindset until it happens to you personally it’s okay? Get a grip if the rules that are in place are not enforced then screw the rest of the rules put a bigger turbo on ahh it’ll only give him a little more hp raise the hitch 2 inches higher well that’s okay too I mean really you all are gonna say it wasn’t NTPA fault?! Get real! They are the “standard of pulling “ but yeah you can weight over what a joke that is and then wants to talk about smith bro Ford explosion“ we don’t have blocks come apart” as said by Larry richwine NTPA and him are a joke .
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 07:10AM
We once had this problem before, we were 30 pounds over in a 6500lb class and couldn't pull... The next pull we were able to run 100lb + and we had done nothing different... guess the scales were that much different.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 09:37AM
Glad i'm not as tightly wound as I once was. You guys can worry about 150# unless my wife makes fun of my gut. Got 12" of snow coming my way and since I drive a truck i'll worry about that instead.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull January 31, 2022 10:42PM
Observer:

You seem to be the only one bothered. If everyone else weighed 6400 and was fine with it. What's the foul? Yes we know the your point is that NTPA changed the rule. We just don't care.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 01, 2022 01:08AM
No im not the only one bothered, EVERYONE was/is bothered or upset by it, I COULD CARELESS IF YOU CARE OR NOT, JUST PUTTING IT OUT THERE WHAT NTPA DID !!!
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 01, 2022 02:01AM
I'll say it again..........are you absolutely sure the promoter did not request that this is what he wanted to happen rather than saying the NTPA is 100% at fault?

It's a simple question, and it matters greatly to what the effect of the outcome is. I'm not saying it was right or wrong......just looking for the root cause of your blame game.
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Doesn’t matter what promoter wanted you contracted with WPI/NTPA February 01, 2022 02:37AM
It’s really simple. Rules are there, follow them or throw rulebook away. It falls on NTPA’s shoulders as the sanctioning body to stick to their rules, the buck stops with them. Many pullers are leaving. I can tell you in R2 they have Tom’s way of doing things, Jim’s way of doing things and Marvin’s way of doing things. Tom is the regional director but; put your money on it, Jim Miller will over ride him every time. The rule book is there to provide fairness and consistency. Instead it’s inconsistent which makes things unfair. It’s to much of the buddy system and if puller A cries loud enough in tech official B’s ear loud enough, the rules are tweaked for the night. It takes integrity away from the sanctioning body and makes it more like brush pulling.
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Re: Doesn’t matter what promoter wanted you contracted with WPI/NTPA February 01, 2022 02:55AM
Ya ya that's great that we keep talking about rules and the sanctioning body. I get it. But what are you gonna do when the promoter comes and says "that guy is pulling in the class tonight so figure it out"? Because I'm telling you it happens. He's the guy paying the bills. So if you are faced with a promoter who happens to do this, how can you roast the sanctioning body? It's not right but I've seen it happen. When the guy paying the bills says he wants something done, what do you suppose is gonna happen?

It is entirely possible that it was in fact an NTPA decision.....but do we really know that for sure?
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Re: Doesn’t matter what promoter wanted you contracted with WPI/NTPA February 01, 2022 03:11AM
See above! NTPA needs to stop letting the tail wag the dog! You don’t want to follow our rules you don’t host an event next year, it really is that simple.
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Re: Doesn’t matter what promoter wanted you contracted with WPI/NTPA February 01, 2022 03:21AM
You’re probably going to have to get over it, learn from it be prepared take a couple extra weights along, throw them on and have fun after all that’s the point, if you were at 6400# would you want to pull? Or just drive back home ? I get your point but not everything is perfect and as said above , who really made the call do we know?
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Re: Doesn’t matter what promoter wanted you contracted with WPI/NTPA February 01, 2022 04:32AM
Getting panties in a wadd every time something is not to your liking is childish, scales vary from every pull,place, time of day, angle of placement and just because. Ntpa is just the platform, ----oh it was a personal friend, local, - I get it, favors from promotors happen a lot, it is part of human Life. One place I pulled at did the same for a local guy that did not want to lighten tractor, -however we were told that if we had moveable weight we had to weight the class number, but not the heavy guy, NOW MY FRIENDS THAT DID NOT FLY. 1FIDDY IS NOT MUCH, EVERYONE WOULD HAVE THAT EXTRA, just because scales vary more than that.They are taking people up Everest on stretchers, wheel chairs and more issues, -do I approve, Hell No, does it effect me, hell No, unless I was forced to take my excursion up with those types of slow me down type problems.Come on people go with the flow,- one day it will matter None. All that pulled at this event and class in question can refuse, pull lite or go home, or just adjust.It would be different if it were 1000K and the guy won. LOL Come on spring so we can get outside and do things besides argue of stupid crap. I have rims to make, tires to mount, adapters to drill, CONTINUE MARCHING - SOLDIER. !!
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Re: Doesn’t matter what promoter wanted you contracted with WPI/NTPA February 01, 2022 05:21AM
Now we have just all read why pulling is just the ( Good Ole Boys Club ). No integrity, no standing up and being a leader. Just let things happen as they may.
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Re: Doesn’t matter what promoter wanted you contracted with WPI/NTPA February 01, 2022 06:44AM
Happens all the time in most competitive venues, most do not want to be the badd guy or gal. Simple human principle to most intelligent humans.I was handed a rule sheet at a pull, in BOLD BLACK OVER SIZED PRINT ON THE BOTTOM, IT READ, NO ALUMINUM FRAME COMPONENTS. , Ok. There was a unit parked next to me with just such frame, clean pretty al. so he could pull lighter classes, I went back to talk with Pres. that handed me the rules sheet and was told I was a trouble maker, cause the guy in question was a regular friend puller good ole boy and that I was the problem, OK ??????????? Another time a certain type helmet was required, and was told that at the driver's meeting, the head guy told everyone, but when He came up to compete, His helmet was out of compliance. I learner very young that some adults Live and Die by the Golden rule of Do as I say, not as I do.
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Re: Doesn’t matter what promoter wanted you contracted with WPI/NTPA February 02, 2022 08:28AM
Quote
Joey
Getting panties in a wadd every time something is not to your liking is childish, scales vary from every pull,place, time of day, angle of placement and just because. Ntpa is just the platform, ----oh it was a personal friend, local, - I get it, favors from promotors happen a lot, it is part of human Life. One place I pulled at did the same for a local guy that did not want to lighten tractor, -however we were told that if we had moveable weight we had to weight the class number, but not the heavy guy, NOW MY FRIENDS THAT DID NOT FLY. 1FIDDY IS NOT MUCH, EVERYONE WOULD HAVE THAT EXTRA, just because scales vary more than that.They are taking people up Everest on stretchers, wheel chairs and more issues, -do I approve, Hell No, does it effect me, hell No, unless I was forced to take my excursion up with those types of slow me down type problems.Come on people go with the flow,- one day it will matter None. All that pulled at this event and class in question can refuse, pull lite or go home, or just adjust.It would be different if it were 1000K and the guy won. LOL Come on spring so we can get outside and do things besides argue of stupid crap. I have rims to make, tires to mount, adapters to drill, CONTINUE MARCHING - SOLDIER. !!

I remember one year that Rockwell had to move all competitors to one side cause one scale was 400lb too heavy, the other was 200lb too light, this was for super farm. And you are right, it can also vary each night as well.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 01, 2022 11:01AM
Why is it when weight issues come up it’s always the guys that make the weight that has to change? The one that can’t should lower the drawbar to compensate for the extra weight
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 01, 2022 11:33PM
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Larry
Why is it when weight issues come up it’s always the guys that make the weight that has to change? The one that can’t should lower the drawbar to compensate for the extra weight

So, what's the corresponding answer for 150 pounds heavy? A inch and a half? Not being snarky--genuinely curious.


John Murray
Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion

Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 02, 2022 01:26AM
Yes, or more. Make it so next time they show up and have movable wt
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 01, 2022 11:04AM
Life is to short.... used to be a stickler... I grew up. Probably won't pull in an organization again.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 01, 2022 01:13PM
Rules are rules. If you can not make weight then you should not pull. Time for tech to put there "pants on" ! Should not be on a bubby system.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 02, 2022 12:46PM
Problem solved. All tractors in there class weigh in on the same scale! No question about weight!
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 01, 2022 01:07PM
There was 150 lbs difference between scale number 1 and scale number 2 so if he weighed on scale 2 and then went to scale 1 it would show him 150 heavier than scale 2 I do not remember which scale LLss used for sure on friday but I think they were on the left hand scale 2 not sure if this was the start of the problem but it could have been
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 01, 2022 01:22PM
Thank you... someone that was actually there and like Paul Harvey we get the rest of the story. I remember weighing on certified elevator scales... Used to find out what area farmers were getting screwed. Lol
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 01, 2022 01:43PM
Here is a fact . was there heard it and seen it . it was ask by larry him self at the drivers meeting whats the weight on the llss class tonight after a little talk bout it he said 6250 i say again 6250 . i dont give a hoot what scales they weighed on they should have said 6250 on that read out .But guess what when they pulled on the scales the weigh master said you can weigh 6400 .now for yall that cant understand the problem go back and read this again . PAUL HARVEY JUST TOLD YOU THE WHOLE STORY
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 02, 2022 09:23AM
Fyi : IT WAS DISCUSSED AT THE SCALES AT THE DRIVERS MEETING -- LARRY RICHWINE ASKED SPECIFICALLY " WHAT IS THE LIGHT LIMITED CLASS TO WEIGHT TONIGHT" ANSWER --- 6250LBS- THEN WHEN WENT TO WEIGHT IN BEFORE CLASS WAS TOLD 6400LBS -- NOW FOR THE LAST TIME --- PLEASE READ AN COMPREHEND ----- ITS NOT ABOUT 6400LBS ---- ITS THE FACT THAT NTPA DOES NOT FOLLOW THEIR OWN RULES ---- PERIOD ----- I SAY AGAIN ---- NOTHING TO DO WITH WEIGHT BEING CHANGED--- RICHWINE ASKED WHAT IT WAS GOING TO WEIGHT AND DID NOT DISCUSS WITH ANY PULLERS !!!!!! CHANGED IT ANYWAYS !!!!
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 02, 2022 11:36AM
Sounds to me like it was the promoter and NOT NTPA that allowed it. If the head NTPA official said 6250. That's what you just said anyway. Oh and quit yelling, makes you sound like a child.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 02, 2022 11:59AM
He cant be yelling on the computer POINT BLANK if the dam class rules says 6250 its 6250 if the flyer says 6250 its 6250 to every one who drives 15 hours to a 6250 pound class and gets there its 6250 piss on the ones who knowingly goes to a 6250 pound class and knew when they left home cant make the weight PUT SOME PAINTS ON OR GO TO A LITTLE GIRLS DANCE CLASS ntpa
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 02, 2022 12:39PM
When you type all caps it's is yelling. He just admitted it wasn't NTPA that said 6400 instead of 6250... Dead horse...
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 02, 2022 02:21AM
Some questions?
Was safety effected?
Was competition compromised?
Points distribution or results effected?
Would be interested if this was going to be an ongoing issue at other Regional events or just a one off.
GNPC would be a little big different.

Were event entries effected?
Rules maybe adjusted if posted at Tech/Reg and/or announced at drivers meeting. Pretty much the motorsports industry standard.

Or there is NTPA Rule 21 H 5.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 02, 2022 02:40AM
It doesn't matter much what the driver's meeting info is, BUT IT NEEDS TO BE CONSISTANT THROUGH OUT THE PULL FOR EVERYONE !!!!!!!!! Many pulls have two scales for two tracks, most of the time tractors pull on both, -weigh on both, sometimes one scale is off more than the other, have seen 50-100 added across the board to all, but in one class was told no, go figure.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 02, 2022 07:10AM
It's sad that I'm starting to hate this LLSS class because I'm tired of hearing all the bitching about it. Unfortunately that's all I seem to read on this page is bitching about this LLSS class by pullers. reminds me of stock class lawn mower pullers..... grow up people.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 02, 2022 08:32AM
Mr Charlie Brown your right. I pull in this class and the bitching has always been about weight and what it should be. I can't pull the heavyweight or I don't like the lightweight and that your right.What's nice about this class if you build your tractor to all the different weights that different clubs offer there is no problem period that you can't pull. And crap like this does happen , be ready for that change. This is something that should have been discussed at the pull and that's we're it should have stayed.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2022 08:36AM by David Runkle(earls dream).
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull, question for Morgans. February 02, 2022 12:58PM
How many different IP addresses are the out of control bitchers?
Similar things by different authors.
Just curious if there are 6 whiners or two.
Don't care who. Just curious.
Like others. Tired of the whining.
BTW, Larry Richwine did NOT change the weight.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull, question for Morgans. February 02, 2022 02:16PM
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HP

BTW, Larry Richwine did NOT change the weight.

Harold like I said earlier in this thread, I see your point and I also see observers point. But I have to ask who changed the weight?
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull, question for Morgans. February 02, 2022 05:33PM
Sorry, I don't know WHO made the change.
The fact I do know, the person, or persons that are screaming, and bitching about NTPA Changing Rules, are WAY out of line.
But, who needs actual facts anymore?
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 12:23AM
That is still no excuse to make a local puller feel like he's big timing in a small town.
first question: how long has the local puller known about this pull and known what the weight class is?
second question: wouldn't you want to build your tractor so its versatile with movable weight?
these are questions from someone who is actually a fan of the class when not paying attention to these pages. LLSS is a fun and entertaining to class to watch. THANK YOU to the pullers that put on the show. But, making excuses for someone that has no excuse when the pull had been advertised and I'm sure he asked or knew a lot of information going into this pull.. now days pullers don't just show up expecting to make rash decisions, they all seem to have a good idea or general idea going into a pull of what the track conditions are like, sled that is normally used exc. and I'm sure knowing what the class runs at weight wise at this pull also was known..
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 02, 2022 11:46PM
The one thing I have not seen being considered is the fans at the pull, everyone is talking about this from a competitors standpoint.

The fans want to see a local tractor compete, they want to see how a local guy stacks up against the out of towners. The promoter knows this and likely decided to make an allowance so that the local guy could compete. Having the local guy pull exhibition is not the same as having a chance to win the class or how he places.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 12:24AM
That is still no excuse to make a local puller feel like he's big timing in a small town.
first question: how long has the local puller known about this pull and known what the weight class is?
second question: wouldn't you want to build your tractor so its versatile with movable weight?
these are questions from someone who is actually a fan of the class when not paying attention to these pages. LLSS is a fun and entertaining to class to watch. THANK YOU to the pullers that put on the show. But, making excuses for someone that has no excuse when the pull had been advertised and I'm sure he asked or knew a lot of information going into this pull.. now days pullers don't just show up expecting to make rash decisions, they all seem to have a good idea or general idea going into a pull of what the track conditions are like, sled that is normally used exc. and I'm sure knowing what the class runs at weight wise at this pull also was known..
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 12:41AM
I hear you and I am not taking sides, but locals want to see locals pull.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 03:59AM
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RCP
I hear you and I am not taking sides, but locals want to see locals pull.

And if you upset a promoter and his local fans, the organization may not be back the following year either. I am not saying that makes what happened right but these things do happen. And if the organization is not back the following year, who is to say that the next organization even offers the class in question? And don't think these things happen with just NTPA. I have seen it happen with many in different classes.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 06:06AM
As I said above, there are still ways to let him pull: let him make a test/exhibition pass right after the class. That way locals get to see the local guy. The local guy gets to pull and maybe the local guy will get motivated to put his tractor on a diet next year. Right now there's no incentive for him to change if they just bend the rules for him he'll assume they will do it again next year.

As for those complaining about this discussion... this is exactly the problem, if we don't discuss these things they will keep happening and rules will keep getting bent (more and more... 150 lbs quickly becomes 200, then 250) until it's just routine (which is becoming apparent that it already is routine to some of you) and nobody will step up and make changes and do the right thing. These discussion bring darkness to the light and keep the sport honest.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 01:29AM
Could you please repeat that Charlie Brown/Observer/whatever name you are using now?
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 01:42AM
With all the bickering over the years on here about this class can someone give me a legitimate reason why you all don’t go to 6500 nationwide and eliminate this problem ?
I’m not trying to stir the pot I’m just curious what the big deal is?
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 02:45AM
The more you weigh the more you brake.need to go to 6000 if you want heavier go to another class.need to get back where this class started.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 04, 2022 04:24AM
"The more you weigh the more you brake"

You have to be kidding me that you think the imaginary line for component failure starts immediately after 6000 pounds? If the difference in these LLSS tractors falling apart is 500 pounds, then you picked the wrong brand/chassis size. Nobody builds specifically for that narrow of a failure window.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 04:37AM
I find it comical that a LLSS is even 6250 lbs when they should be 6000 lbs max....I have an old time NTPA light super with cage,30.5's on steel wheels thats a little over 5000 lbs with no driver....It hasn't hooked in years..

If I remember right a NTPA LSS is 6200 lbs and a PPL LSS is 6300 lbs so why should a LLSS be heavier than them..
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 05:26AM
I can tell you why LLSS is heavier than LSS... its because the locals want to see their buddy who knows the rules and weight pull. but what they dont know is their buddy hasn't done anything to make his tractor fit the class. he wants the class to fit him.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 08:28AM
Mr Bailey asked for a legitimate reason? Not because your buddy can't make weight or comparison to LSS or we want it like it used to be. Most people watching a show, which we are paid to put on want to see a good show. I have pulled at 6000,6100,6250, 6350, 6500 ,6700 and 7000 so myself I don't care. The reason we use the weight we use is the tech official felt we put on a better show at our weight . All brands of tractors can make this class , color and fuel differences sell this class don't make your personal choice on weight put a black eye on this class .
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 08:38AM
I agree with David. I have pulled up to 7500 open and in my opinion 6250 is a fun weight to run. If the class would go under 6000 lbs. in my opinion it would drive some to do a lot of grinding on rear end and transmission case to save weight which could weaken them. I think that WTPA lss class also runs at 6250 lbs. I could be wrong.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 09:03AM
I just hope the promoter of the April Florida pull doesn't see all this whining and complaining and drama and cancel the LLSS class, or the whole pull.
This thread reminds me of a bunch of 6th grade girls.
What promoter would put up with this B.S. ???
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 09:10AM
The other side of that argument is, if someone, the promoter, the official in charge had just followed the rules this discussion would not be taking place. I think what we are seeing blame shifting


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 09:36AM
Dick this does fall on the one that made the decision. But 4 years ago when the National Rules came out everyone bitched about the weight. And it's still and issue people bring up. We all know what everyone runs. The what's and should haves are water under the bridge, someone made a mistake on changing the weight, but the show still must go on .
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 12:21PM
If the promoter wants a 6500 class or 6250 they needs to stick with it not drive pullers across the country and change the rules it is know different than getting everybody there and saying we have a local with two turbos were going to let him pull no difference rules are rules bend one you may as well bend them all as morgan said if the rule had not been broken this would be know discussion 6250 was splitting the difference between the 6 and 6500 pound guys so every one could get along and go play
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 01:09PM
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HP
I just hope the promoter of the April Florida pull doesn't see all this whining and complaining and drama and cancel the LLSS class, or the whole pull.
This thread reminds me of a bunch of 6th grade girls.
What promoter would put up with this B.S. ???

Harold, I sent you a pm on facebook.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 01:04PM
BBailey, the higher the weight the more it becomes about cubic dollars in the form of HP.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 04, 2022 02:18AM
Ok it looks like it’s about breaking parts due to weight and spending money lots of money because of a few hundred pounds , I was wondering if it was because of a certain series of tractors could be pulled that had an advantage in the class
I’ll go back under my rock now where I still throw a 1000# of weights s couple times a day in 90* heat with a smile on my face because I got to pull that day and dream of PULLING a sled the entire hook, nothing wrong with being old school


,
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 10:44AM
When can we go back to arguing about what “advantages” (if any) diesel tractors should get compared to their alcohol counterparts?

Speaking of which, if this local guy would have had a bigger turbo, or been over on cubic inches or had a higher hitch height, would that have been okay to you all? All because local fans want to see local pullers? Sure, throwing on additional weight is a “simple” fix—but what if it wasn’t something simple? I don’t have a dog in this fight and it’s been particularly entertaining reading this thread. Just try to remain civil.


John Murray
Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion

Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama.
Watch LGP on YouTube
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 03, 2022 10:56AM
John we did have that happen this last year , turbo , cubic inch , he was teched before the pull and made an exhibition run after our class was done. People make mistakes , it just happened to a LLSS event.
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Re: NTPA Changing Rules at Ocala Pull February 04, 2022 01:20AM
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John Murray
When can we go back to arguing about what “advantages” (if any) diesel tractors should get compared to their alcohol counterparts?

Speaking of which, if this local guy would have had a bigger turbo, or been over on cubic inches or had a higher hitch height, would that have been okay to you all? All because local fans want to see local pullers? Sure, throwing on additional weight is a “simple” fix—but what if it wasn’t something simple? I don’t have a dog in this fight and it’s been particularly entertaining reading this thread. Just try to remain civil.

The diesel guys shouldn’t get any “advantages”. Same air same power potential. The diesel guys just don’t understand how to use it.
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I know how to fix this… February 03, 2022 04:02PM
I know how we can fix this. Make it a GN component class.

There. Problem solved. You’re welcome. Now we can all argue in circles about something different.

Quit beating a dead horse. What’s done is done. You can’t change what happened last weekend now. Ain’t nobody gonna send back the trophy or the prize money. Whether you like it or not, things like this will happen. Whether it’s on part of the sanctioning body or the promoter, it’s done and over with now.

Did someone make a mistake? Yep. Somewhere in the chain of command, a mistake was probably made.
Was it ethical? Seems like there’s a lot of supposition and not a lot of factual information. Hard to make a determination without knowing what actually happened.
Should it have happened the way it did? No. As indicated earlier, a mistake was probably made.

Can you beat on the keyboards and phones enough to turn back the hands of time to last weekend so you can watch it happen all over again and not do anything about it a second time? No.

(To the OP - Yep, I understand that you’re fighting for a principle. You’ve made that exceptionally clear - and that’s a totally valid reason. But fight the battle where you can make a difference if the principle is that important to you. If that’s a phone call to Gregg Randall, then make the call. Wasting your breath here is just gonna make you mad; it’s not going to fix anything.)
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Re: I know how to fix this… February 04, 2022 05:17AM
This probably happens much more than we all know, maybe not so much on the "PERFECT " national scale - but in many smaller imperfect world of pulling, does it really matter? get over it.
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