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PPL and Safety
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Gerald
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Some recent safety observations
Don't they enforce the visors being down on helmets while pulling was watching live feed from GALOT and Farley seen most of the Visors were up. Danny Johnson ran not wearing Gloves. Seen from Buck Saturday night Flagmen didn't have on Flame Retardant Clothing . Winning Semi had open face helmet , no Headsock and didn't fasten strap. Lots of open visors. Why are passengers allowed in Sled during Competition, Sled operators have enough going on with distractions of riders. Just some observations I seen. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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plum krazy
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We as human's are forgetful and lazy, complacent in the lack of readiness, we want reality to be what and how we would like, -not as it is, Karma, nature and the real world happen at break neck Speed, let's be more alert and safety minded always to help avert accidents that may be lessened or kept from happening. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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Karen
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Don’t be a Karen!!!!!! |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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TV watcher
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The best ones I like while watching, are all the crew members in the hot pits area with shorts and flip-flops.
They are on the track assisting drivers with shorts and flip-flops. I can tell you this, I've been in many ppl drivers meetings and that's a huge no no. Shorts and open toe shoes . Automatic DQ basically . This is the champions tour mind you . Watch for yourself. It's pretty ridiculous. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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Registered: 09/26/2021 Posts: 71 |
I have to admit I noticed this too. So many open visors on alcohol fueled minis. The shorts and flip flops blew my mind. The passenger in the sled isn’t such a big deal, if they are trying to train a new operator. It becomes a bigger deal if they get out mid class. Reminds me of Fort Recovery last year. Watched camera man get his harness all situated all perfect both days only to never even clip to the lift once. Up and down even moved the lift. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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TV watcher
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Maybe they signed a waiver .
But if something happens..heaven forbid it never does . There will be no excuses for a law suit or insurance claim on the event or PPL. There was some talk some time ago about the sport and professionalism. I don't want to criticize to much.. because I've broke the rules myself on safety many times and got away with it . So, I don't want to call the kettle black . From a fans side..my wife will tell me . What the heck are they doing down there in shorts and flip-flops.believe me..! She catches all the clothing on the track when she's in the stands . Especially..the shorty shorts females she is jealous of in the pit area. Sometimes I wish I wouldn't comment on anything.. because I really don't want to hurt the sport anymore than everything going on with cost and such . Thanks for free speech on here Appreciated. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I was just grinding and welding something small this morning in my flip flops and shorts. It was a two minute project and I felt sparks hit my feet and I knew the potential consequences. I'm an adult and it was a risk I accepted. I've got plenty of shoes with holes burned in the toes from sparks or slag because sometimes I'm too lazy to put on my leather work boots for a quick project. Again, I know the risk and I accept the responsibility.
The shorts and flip flops while being trackside don't bother me if they sign a waiver. If they accept the risk what's the problem? It's a completely arbitrary rule. I can show up in thin nylon hiking pants and the thinnest shoes and somehow I'm "safe"? Heck, I'd probably rather have my leg hair burned off as opposed to my pants and shoes melting to my skin (I've had my Carhartts burn through and melt my Polypropylene thermal underwear and melt to my leg... wasn't fun). Short and flip flops aren't really an issue to me. Why not make everyone wear a nomex hood and long sleeves... because my face and my arms are pretty important to me too. I'm not saying that safety isn't important. I'm simply saying that personal responsibility should come into play. There are times when a crew member is never more than a few feet from the first row of seats... maybe the first few rows should have the same standards. It's arbitrary and it doesn't do much to keep anyone "safe". As for visors... yeah they should be down, but again it should be a question of personal responsibility. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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TV watcher
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Good point Jake .
Like I said above, maybe they signed the waiver being in the pit area. There are so many points of views and opinions on this it's a hard discussion. What one may agree with ,another might not . If the sport wants professionalism and encourage safety to all of pulling. The Role models, " being the pulling teams" in my opinion, should set the standard for professionalism. But, just my opinion. In my view of the world now , ( which I disagree with in some things . ) The attitude is.. if you want to play baseball and where flip flops, wear them . Maybe you can run faster around the bases .Or , the coach is barefoot because it's his good luck charm. The Yankees demand round bases instead of square or there not playing...you know what I mean. Not trying to get off subject..here .bu I just grew up in a different generation....now trying to cope With the changes in different sports . I like to be a role model for all kids . Thanks |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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$
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An injury on private property will typically become the liability of the individual property owner. On public property, however, an accident will be the liability of the government party or agency that owns the land.
Signing a waive and exercising personal responsibility, does not necessarily meet the expectations of the property owner. Your a guest,act like it. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
If liability is on the agency that owns the land then why does PPL require pants but NTPA allows shorts? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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TV watcher
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Maybe NYTPA is different than ppl and ntpa
They may set there rules above and beyond those organizations. Take a look at rule #19 . You might be already familiar with it NYTPA.. website click on news Scroll down to 19 . There Lucas oil sanctioned. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I'm not exactly sure what you're pointing out... yes PPL (NYTPA) requires pants and shoes. NTPA doesn't have the same arbitrary restrictions. The PPL rules are completely arbitrary, as the rules are written: Someone could wear a half shirt and be in compliance... someone could wear shoes with closed toes and open backs (slides) and be incompliance. Nylon and polyester are OK as long as you're not a tech official. Tank tops are out but a sleeveless shirt would be OK? A (hopefully female) crew member could wear a skirt! Technically a crew member visiting from Scotland could wear a kilt. It wouldn't take much to exploit the rules.
These rules have nothing to do with safety... they have more to do with "looking safe". I understand "looking" professional. However the arbitrary rules don't necessarily accomplish that either. Someone could wear grease and oil stained pants and look like trash (I've seen crew members look like that trackside) or they could wear a nice pair a khaki shorts and look professional. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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TV watcher
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Your not exactly sure what I'm pointing out ?
I think the topic was about some safety concerns. PPL your saying requires pants ect., NTPA does not . .. well there was just multiple violations on the champions tour as some of us saw..if your correct about the PPL rules. Your basically picking apart what you call safe clothing.. ..and using analogies about what you feel could or couldn't be Arbitrary on clothing . Random choice by whim can be a rule unfortunately. It doesn't matter what clothing you believe is safe . Like a helmet visor, plastic or lexan . Just says visor down. You can argue it all day on what material is safe. I brought into the topic safety concerns. I pull with the NYTPA and what I saw on champions tour wouldn't fly . I also brought on the topic professionalism , and criticized what I saw on TV from the PPL champions pullers . This was In regards to shorts and flip-flops. That's my point . |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
You replied to my post on liability, that's why your comments about the rule book were confusing to me... your reply had nothing to do with liability so I wasn't sure what you were trying to point out in that reply. Also, you posted a link to the NYTPA rule book... nobody is arguing whether it's a rule or not in PPL (or any of their member states)... We all know it's a rule. That's why I wasn't sure what you were pointing out in the reply. I agree with your comments, and I also agree that if it's in the rule book then it should be enforced (although the rule book is vague in what happens when some of these rules are violated... is it a DQ?).
I'm simply arguing that it's a completely arbitrary rule that does nothing to keep anyone safe and it also doesn't address professionalism. If you're going to call a rule a "safety rule" it should actually accomplish something to keep people safe. I simply pointed out numerous ways that the rule doesn't actually address safety. I don't really care about the rule... I'm simply pointing out how flawed it is and how poor it's written. Rules should be: clearly worded/well worded (to avoid grey area), effective (rules should accomplish what they intend to do), and lastly enforced. This rule is poorly worded... doesn't address safety or professionalism, and despite those huge failings... isn't even being enforced. That seems like a triple fail to me. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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TV watcher
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Jake . I agree with your statements.
Thanks |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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$
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Good question,
I have been to many pulls that were (big and small) shut down(in progress) by fair boards, for multible safety issues(completly over ruling the promter). |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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Registered: 06/25/2008 Posts: 66 |
You must go to totally different pulls than I go to. I've never seen that or even heard of that happen once. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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$
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Pulls stopped for
People on the wrong side of the fence/wall. People standing at end of the track. Puller not having helmet on. Passenger on fender of packer tractor. Passenger on fender of pulling tractor,driving through pits. Passenger rides on draw bar, driving off track. To name a few |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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F-30puller
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That was standard procedure back in the day. I should have been dead in 1985. Think what they would think about the stand on sleds... I'm only 43 but have participated in a few of those..... Remember life before lasers? Who has pulled a rope across the track before? |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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$
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We never had a tie, back then. LOL |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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Registered: 04/14/2021 Posts: 27 |
I was thinking of this very thread when I was at a Western Series pull over the weekend and saw a crew member walking down the track in shorts and flip flops as the tractor backed up to the sled. Even though I know the guy, I'm not going to out him on a discussion board.
I'm also surprised that a crew member was allowed to sit on the concrete barrier with their legs dangling in on the track side so they could shoot video with their phone (same person did it more than once). |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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Registered: 08/26/2019 Posts: 26 |
I pulled at a ppl event last week. they went over the tractor and checked all my safety equipment. I even showed up pretty late. I threw a rod out the side of my motor and the inner side shields did there job. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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ANONYMOUS
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ALL pulls have a somebody that must be or beseen on the track |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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Registered: 02/23/2017 Posts: 137 |
As for riders in the sleds... NTPA does have a rule against it, but the North American Sled Operators Association says a rider may only ride if they have a seat with a seat belt (which must be worn) & must ride for the duration of a class. Typically the only riders allowed at a PPL event are a member of the sled crew, a sponsor representative, or a promoter.
As for safety, I'll use mini rod transmission blankets as an example. The first incident did happen at a PPL event, I was there. The very next weekend it was a requirement of PPL that ALL mini rods must have the blankets in place, no exceptions. It took NTPA almost 2 years to fully enforce the blankets to ALL mini rods. And as fate would have it, the first blanket failure happened at an NTPA event..... |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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Carlsson
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Logan, can you give a short hint to what has happen with the failed blanket at this NTPA event? Never heard about neither haven't seen any picture about it. Did a gearbox disintegrate and the blanket can't withstand the loads to contain the debris? |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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F-30puller
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Was told years ago at a meeting... Clark you probably heard it too... Waivers mean nothing when lawyers get involved. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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Registered: 05/22/2008 Posts: 225 |
Two comments.
1. Over 35 years as a promoter, I was involved in three lawsuits regarding injuries at pulls. Each one went before a judge and each one was 'thrown out' due to my ability to produce a signed waiver from the individual who was bringing the suit. Two of these were for tractor and truck pulls and one was for a demo derby. The waiver form does provide a space between the promoter and the attorneys. 2. The states of New Jersey and Connecticut have state laws regarding officials working at motor sport events. These rules were written for circle track and drag racing, but apply to the pulling sport. RJ (my son) was cited at the NJ State Fair in Sussex, NJ as the head official for permitting short pants on officials on the track. They actually took him to the precinct station but did not keep him LOL. I had to personally travel to NJ a couple of weeks later and pay a $200 fine to settle this matter. Note that neither of these states are big pulling venues currently. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Rick,
Thanks for sharing the stories. Those are the types of stories I love to hear. I didn't know about Connecticut and New Jersey laws but it doesn't surprise me. I'm actually a little surprised that NY doesn't have a similar law. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: PPL and Safety
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Yep, I heard that and knew that before it was said. |
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