08:37:37am, Sunday, April 28, 2024
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Any rule update from enderle?
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4.1 guy
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Any updated news about 4.1? |
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Re: Any rule update from enderle?
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Posts: 65 |
Won't know till after the meetings tomorrow morning |
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Re: Any rule update from enderle?
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Registered: 01/07/2022 Posts: 102 |
To the top! Any news? |
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Re: Any rule update from enderle?
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Registered: 08/16/2021 Posts: 306 |
Something I saw today struck me as odd. PPL has their big season finale at Wheatland this weekend. All Champions Tour classes plus the Limited Pro Stocks from the Silver Series. NTPA ran Limited Pro at Tomah.
Is there any good reason for not making Limited Pro a National level class at this point? |
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Re: Any rule update from enderle?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
Yea,just another 640 red green class,enough already |
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Re: Any rule update from enderle?
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579 |
4.1, Light Pro, and Pro Stock Diesel Truck are national classes offered through the Silver Series. |
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Re: Any rule update from enderle?
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Not to derail the topic, but what is the purpose for the "Silver Series?" If they're PPL national classes, why not make them Champions Tour classes? Now back to the regularly scheduled thread.... |
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Re: Any rule update from enderle?
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579 |
National classes with a limited schedule...AND as we've seen Silver Series classes can make the jump to CT, most recently with the Mini Rods. Just open and available facts.
I just wanted to clarify that 95/4.1 is already recognized nationally with PPL in reference to Brandon's comment. The Pro Pulling Nationals has also hosted Limited Pro Stock Diesel Trucks in the past from the Champion Seed Western Series as another point of reference that, while being the season finale, the event has hosted classes beyond 4.1 and Silver Series. Bryan Lively - 
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The case for Light Pro
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
With all due respect, imo a better case could be made for NTPA making Light Pros a GN class than Limited Pro. 1) The 540 ci limit is a departure from the 640-680 limits for PS, Limited Pro, and Super Farm. That alone would be a departure from the other single charger GN classes (and limited Pro). 2) Within NTPA's active regions, not only are there many vehicles in R2 where NTPA actually sanctions most of their events, but the class also runs in UPOC and R3. It could be ran anywhere in R2, Tomah (where it's currently a RN class) and even Rockwell would likely draw Free Entry plus several R3 vehicles. In other words, it's ran every region NTPA currently has member states. Limited Pros are not ran in the R4/Carolinas area. 3) Vehicle variety, whether NTPA or PPL, it's not a completely red and green show, though both those brands have plenty of vehicles. There are New Hollands, Massey, Cases, AC/Deutz vehicles. If Tomah sanctioned as a GN, or Bowling Green, you'd for sure have a competitive Massey, probably several blue and a few orange. 4) It was an NTPA class before Limited Pro. They've paid their dues and if they want 10-12 Free Entry guys, it's likely they would get them. This isn't intended to bash Limited Pro; it's to point out if one is going to be added as a GN division, and had to choose between Limited or Light Pro, I'd go with Light. Besides, should a class with "Limited" as part of it's name really be a GN class? With all the above being said, there are already a dozen GN classes. At what point is enough, enough? Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2022 11:20PM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: The case for Light Pro
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$
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The name alone makes (light) Pro Stock, a better choice than Limited Pro Stock. (a lighter class of Pro Stocks)
At a national lever, Light Pro Stock should be 510 not 540, and allow component tractors. (Cast tractors remain 540 for 2 years) Now to be clear, I am not talking at the state or regional levels. The reason it won't happen, is the fear a flood of current running and parked Supers and Pros, will step down. Thinning those classes to the point, they are unbookable. |
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Re: The case for Light Pro
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Honest opinion
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One thing I would like to mention why limited pro would be better Option over light pro. Limited pro is 640 and so is super farm. This would make a easy transition for guys to jump up and run. Limited pro has uniform rules across ever association that offers the class. Guys are already traveling the country to support PPL to help show they are willing to travel. It’s a happy medium between super farm and heavy prostock. Overall everyone wants there class as GN. I feel like limited pro puts on a great show and will draw more numbers than light pros. At the end of the this is a show for the fans and that’s the most important part. More tractors mean more hooks for better show. |
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Re: The case for Light Pro
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Registered: 08/16/2021 Posts: 306 |
Not often do people change their opinions based on the arguments made by others on the internet. However, I think a couple of you made valid points and I'd now advocate for Light Pro Stocks to be a Grand National class/Champions Tour class over the Limited Pros. I would however support whichever was brought up. I do think it only makes sense to elevate one of the two classes not both. |
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Re: The case for Light Pro
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Fan 2
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You do know there's a whole lot more to being a GN class than showing up at BG don't you? There is a lot more traveling than region and how many are willing to do that all summer? If you don't think there are too many of these classes already, go to Enderle and try to explain to first timers the difference in all the different smoke classes. If you want to be GN run PS or DSS. Rest of it doesn't belong at the big events GN shouldn't filler classes, it should be GN equipment. Enough of this trying to push county fair classes on GN! |
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Re: The case for Light Pro
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Yes.
Well, we could look at PPL for an example. Their Silver Series Light Pros ran from Hillsboro, WI to Benson, NC and had decent numbers. This is a similar geographic footprint an NTPA GN class may have with probably a similar number of hooks. The Enderle is an apples to oranges comparison. It's a highly limited-entry invitational that encompasses RN class and GN classes both. Whether there should be changes in the GN class offerings is a different discussion.
First off, calling any class "filler" is insulting and demeaning to the pullers who have spent funds to run. Maybe "entry level" would be a more apt term, and even that is probably not the best wording. There is no class I can think of even at a RN level that doesn't entail a significant financial investment. You do know Pro Stock was an entry-level/lower budget class at one time that was introduced as a lower budget alternative to Super Stock? I don't know your age, but I'm old enough to remember HSPTA pulls in the mid 1970s that ran a Stock class that wasn't stock at all, it was a mid 1970's version of a single charger Pro Stock several years before the name changed and NTPA adopted it. You do realize there are still county fairs that run super stocks, whether in OSTPA, or unsanctioned like Fayette Co Fair in Indiana where Chris Gettinger and Pfeiffers live. There are also county fairs that run TWD, modifieds, and Pro Stocks. Does that make those divisions "County Fair" classes? Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2022 01:51AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: The case for Light Pro
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Registered: 10/31/2017 Posts: 14 |
That move would pretty much make them identical to European Pro Stock - But what is your reasoning for abandoning the 540 cui, that has been used in several US classes for years?
I have been arguing that Europe should go to 540 cui and 8800 lbs instead of the current 510 cui / 7700 lbs to make them closer to the US classes. |
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Re: The case for Light Pro
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$
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2 European Pro Stocks were shipped over a few years ago, that is what started my 510 idea. (National level only) Makes a step-down class, for semi active and retired, super stocks and pro stocks. Makes step up class, for 510 pro farm/hot farm tractors. Gives the cast 540 light pro's, an equalizer for 2 or 3 years. European Pro Stocks would have a drive on class. |
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Re: The case for Light Pro
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Registered: 06/25/2008 Posts: 66 |
Do the 4.1 guys really want to be a National class? They can already pull just about 7 days a week somewhere in the summer if they want to. |
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Re: The case for Light Pro
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Registered: 07/09/2008 Posts: 133 |
I think the primary driver is to have the option to pull at Bowling Green. |
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Re: The case for Light Pro
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bri_n15
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I tend to agree that Light Pro would be my pick for elevation as well. I just lean toward the smaller motor, with the freedom to turn as big of a charger as you can successfully make run. As stated, provides some difference in motor size from super farm, instead of just being a step-up class in turbo size like the Limiteds.
But, if the main concern for choosing one of the two classes is consistent numbers on a national level; then maybe consider borrowing a page from the OSTPA, and run them together. The OSTPA has had good success run the two styles in a combo class; want the bigger cubes, gotta run the 4.1 charger, or run the smaller motor and turn the bigger charger. It’s been a competitive and successful class running them together; some times the Light Pros win, sometimes the Limiteds get them. The problem with this plan might be ending up with 60-70 tractors showing up at a big event. But making the national level class a combo class would at least probably ensure you’d get enough guys to consistently travel for a points race. (and then no one has to choose…) |
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Re: The case for Light Pro
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CC
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Light pro is better then limited pros, just my opinion. Like both classes, but Light pro has color. Always put on a great wheel standing . Is he gonna choke, blow up, drive by 2nd place, The Light pro show massive rpm and hp for there engine setups. With 540 ci it’s a draw of straws on a winner almost every night. People can compete and win with colors other then green and red. So much variety and combos makes it awesome. Red and green classes don’t interest the other fans that come to see the Fords or Cases, Allis Chlamers, ect pull . So right off the bat more people would be in the stands for their color vs red and green class. Any color could win. So it's intriguing with the different setups guys are using . Light pro should be the GN class. If they do it but personally I like them being a step below when you go to the show.a
They are the best class or most hp of the night it brings more appreciation not only for us watching with color and still ag chassis. Makes it kinda old school DSS vibes it’s a great class, so is Limited pro. But you check more off the list with Light pro. I do not think SF should be GN or CT. They are cool yeah, it’s so called “roots”. But remove them and replace with Light pros and it’s just better “roots” if you think of it that way. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2022 02:06PM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: The case for Light Pro
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 57 |
I would like to see the numbers of tractors there is at the present time that hold a NTPA license for limited pro verses the ones that hold a license for light pro. Both classes would be good choices but it depends where they would be holding the classes. Region 3 has more limited than lights but region 2 has more lights than limited. And i wonder which promoters would take them i know a few would. But Bowling Green doesnt need another class of thirty there show is plenty long as it is. |
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Re: The case for Light Pro
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Posts: 1,161 |
Through August there were 46 Light Pros that were members with NTPA and 33 Limited Pros that were members with NTPA. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: The case for Light Pro
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It’s depends on who they are for light pros vs limited pros. In my part of the country(region 2) is dominated by light pros and if you go out to region 3 and 4 it’s dominated by limited pros. The real question is are people from Indiana, Ohio, and Michigan willing to travel to Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc…? On the flip side are people from Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, etc… willing to travel to Indiana, Ohio, or Michigan? Also especially on a week night, I know NTPA has kind of gotten away from national weekday hooks but it still happens!! Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2022 01:49AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: The case for Limited Pro
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hmmmm
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Kamikaze, why does Europe need to be identical to what US does? You posters preach 'variety' and yet you want uniformity and conformity, across the board, in all world locations.
Somebody said they would prefer Light PS be 510 rather than its max 540. 510 would most likely reduce the color brands. 540 allows the Perkins 540 V-8 (i.e Massey 1150) not to have to decube, like they do in the 510 Hot Farm class. Fan 2, it doesn't matter what level of pulling or class it is, to the first time spectator and even occasional spectator, it is always about 'educating' what is the difference between classes. Does not matter if Garden Tractors, Antiques, or anything on any of the "National" levels. Some announcers are good at it. Most are not. And most are totally confused when the Light PS and Limited PS compete in the same combined class. Many people, including announcers, do not realize it is 2 classes of tractors actually competing together in 1 class, the Light/Limited PS class. And thus, most announcers do not even know how to educate their audience of what they are seeing. And it is a great class, in both OSTPA and IPL (Indiana Pulling League). And remember, everyone, that "region" are "National" classes. Which also includes LLSS. Original Michael is exactly correct about how the Pro Stock class started. It has evolved into something far more than anyone literally dreamt of back in those days (late 70's). And how it has evolved to another semi-outta control class (at least $$$$$$$-wise) is the reason all these other classes (LLSS, HF, SF, Light PS, Limited PS) were created to fill voids left by the 'original' classes power evolvement. And more importantly, why these new classes have the 'limits' placed on them - to help them supposedly to contain their cost (instead of ballooning like LSS, PS, SSD). Even though this thread has turned into if Light or Limited PS should be favored as a GN class, with the majority thus far voting for Light PS, how many of you posters have considered or even asked very many of said class pullers, if they are willing to travel such longer distances? When NTPA Region 2 Light PS debuted, the rather significant number of pullers were very willing to travel the Region 2 circuit. For 2 or 3 years. And they got to complaining (you SF bashers, take note of these 'other complainers') it was too much travel. And so they started staying closer to home, with the far away events, dropping their class. So NTPA office split the Region 2 circuit into 2 halves. Did that increase puller attendance. Nope. Now, we are a few years later. Has anything changed. Nope. I have personally asked several RN2 Light PS pullers why they do not support the 'farther away' RN2 events. And if they would travel if their class became a GN class. Most replies were they really do not want to travel beyond 2 hours, 3 at the most, from home. I agree that Light PS put on a really good show in RN2. But so do the Limited PS - in both RN2 and west of the Mississippi River. In both of those sentences, I have seen that action many times. Here's another way to see who is really committed to their Lgt PS and LimPS class and to travel. Go to ntpapull.com, click on "Standings", "Current". Wow, the RN2 and RN3 LimPS guys are far more committed to attend all the events versus the Light PS. Now go check "Past Standings". Same thing. So it just might be that Limited PS is the better choice to move to a GN status. That is certainly my vote. And Fan2, it is astounding how much of that GN caliber equipment, comes to pull at these "county fairs". With your thinking, there should be several GN classes demoted strictly to the Region &/or State level pulls. But, hey, I'm glad they qualified for the famed Enderle Pull-Off. |
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Re: The case for Limited Pro
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$
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Check the difference between a1150 and 1155.
Do you really think, a national level component class, would not allow cross dressing? |
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Re: The case for Limited Pro
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Mffan
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I got quite a chuckle out of his post myself |
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Re: The case for Limited Pro
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Fan 2
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I think it's great when GN pullers show up at state pulls, have always liked it. What that has to do with your argument I have no idea? The exception does not prove the rule.
As for the Enderle comment, the multiple smoke classes happens at many GN hooks and trying to explain the difference to a first time attender (which I've done any times) gets a deer in the headlights look out of them most of the time and usually ends in "Why"? Also, who doesn't know the history of the PS class? What makes you think these classes will have any different result? I thought SF was going to be the end all for all this nonsense? How did that work out? Will be the same with all these eventually. So run PS or SSD if you want to run GN, keep all the other smoke classes where they are. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2022 07:01AM by Dick Morgan. |
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