Re: What has improved Mr. Murray?

	NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 02:12AM
CC	What if we had one merged organization? Reply Quote

	Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 02:50AM
Wyatt Schulte Registered: 01/04/2022 Posts: 93	We would need universal rules for all classes that each association has. Reply Quote

	Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 03:26AM
BrandonA Registered: 08/16/2021 Posts: 308	Thinking these organizations would ever merge is like thinking World Peace is achievable. Reply Quote

	Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 03:56AM
Yes	This would be the best and biggest thing to ever happen for the sport as a whole. Someone needs to get the right people from these three organizations in a room and lock the door till a deal is done. I have been saying this for years this needs to happen. Take wisner and bowling green for example being on the same weekend every year. Should be a crime in the world of tractor pulling. Reply Quote

	Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 03:55AM
IH-SSD	This wouldn't even be a topic had NTPA remained a National Org. But the powers at be did what they did. Reply Quote

	Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 06:36AM
John Murray Moderator Registered: 02/21/2012 Posts: 797	Are monopolies ever a good thing? Competition leads to things improving. John Murray Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama. Watch LGP on YouTube Like LGP on Facebook Reply Quote

	Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 07:07AM
Puller	Like what? 10 different sets of rules 100 different classes and nothing like pullers getting a $2500 check to win a GN or CT Lol yeah wrong answer there John a merger would be the best thing take all the sponsor from each organization and top guys and work on a major overhaul of everything Reply Quote

	Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 07:26AM
$	Tough to be in 3 places at once, that would make for less pulls, in turn less fans, less fans makes less sponsorships It would make more driving, for the pullers and the remaining fans. It would also increase the cost, to the fairs. Making less pulls, and more country music shows. Reply Quote

Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 07:53AM

BrandonA

Registered: 08/16/2021
Posts: 308

I personally think having 3 organizations has helped improve the sport.

For example if Outlaws didn't exist how many GN or CT pulls do you think the NTPA or PPL would have in those states? The answer: not many, they'd see a lot of RN/Silver Series pulling.

Plus the whole reason for the PPL creation in the first place was that pullers were upset with how the NTPA ran things. Regardless of which side of the fence you're on how can this be seen as a bad thing?

The three organizations will likely never merge, they will likely never agree on a uniform set of rules, and in the end I think that's alright.

What would be nice as a fan would be the three organizations figuring out things to allow everyone to compete at BG, aka move Wisner. Although I doubt many from Outlaws would make the trip I'm sure some would.

PPL use to have CT hooks in Hamburg during BG and took that off the schedule 5ish years ago. Time for Outlaws to move Wisner or come up with something creative. No offense to Outlaws but I'd say BG takes precedence over Wisner as far as scheduling goes.

Reply Quote

What has improved Mr. Murray? October 19, 2022 07:59AM

OH1979er

Registered: 01/07/2022
Posts: 103

Tell me what has improved. First a history lesson on monopolies; in the United States professional sports are exempt from anti-trust laws. I have read and studied this in-depth, bottom line they don’t produce a tangible good like oil and John D Rockefeller to import or export. Second ANYONE who believes competition of sanctioning bodies has been good for tractor pulling has either lived with their head in the sand or are just to dense to realize it’s not a good thing! Successful business models for sports exist all over this country and pulling follows little to none of those models. The Golden Years of pulling that everyone points to you had ONE body and that was NTPA, a small argument can be made for TNT but that’s like comparing NHRA to IHRA or AHRA. What this allowed was for NTPA to be king of the hill. The “Let’s Grow Pulling” mantra begins and ends with the conversation in this thread. The sport lacks unity and it is a sport that is over saturated in the market. The best thing for pulling would be for the big 3 to lock themselves in a white padded room and not come out until the rules are unified in all classes. Chances of that happening are slim to none because everyone is only worried about their sand box. Multiple national sanctioning bodies have ruined a sport that could have been great!

Reply Quote

Re: What has improved Mr. Murray? October 19, 2022 08:13AM

Groundpounder

Well said OH1797er. Let's Grow Pulling is having a ranking of the top machines from all three "national" sanctioning bodies. A true national champion would have proven it ON THE TRACK over the past summer! The pullers think three organizations is good because more of them get a check on any given weekend, but we fans know we are seeing a very watered down show at most "national" events.

Reply Quote

Re: What has improved Mr. Murray? October 19, 2022 12:53PM

John Murray

Moderator
Registered: 02/21/2012
Posts: 797

Quote
Groundpounder
Well said OH1797er. Let's Grow Pulling is having a ranking of the top machines from all three "national" sanctioning bodies. A true national champion would have proven it ON THE TRACK over the past summer! The pullers think three organizations is good because more of them get a check on any given weekend, but we fans know we are seeing a very watered down show at most "national" events.

Why not? I’ll tackle this one too…

You want a “true national champion.” So, what defines that, exactly? Just whoever wins a points championship under the National Pro Pulling Outlaws? (We can work on the name later…) How many states do the pullers on the NPPO circuit have to pull in? A third of the 48 contiguous states? Just for fun: what 16 states are you picking for a “national” tour?

Are we doing a 50-point system? Or going with 30? Can pullers drop their lowest finish?

(:

John Murray
Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion

Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama.
Watch LGP on YouTube
Like LGP on Facebook

Reply Quote

Re: What has improved Mr. Murray? October 19, 2022 01:04PM

SMFH

You can always still have state and regional points races. Similar to what ntpa does now. Hell give outlaw ntpa and ppl their own region similar to what they are now. But with a national set of rules and classes. Pool all the sponsorship advertising and tv money together. Then put the top pulls from each association into a national points top dog scedual. Say the 10 to 12 biggest pulls across the country. If you honestly can't see the possibility this could creat then I feel sorry for you.

Reply Quote

Re: What has improved Mr. Murray? October 19, 2022 12:39PM

John Murray

Moderator
Registered: 02/21/2012
Posts: 797

Quote
OH1979er
Tell me what has improved. First a history lesson on monopolies; in the United States professional sports are exempt from anti-trust laws. I have read and studied this in-depth, bottom line they don’t produce a tangible good like oil and John D Rockefeller to import or export. Second ANYONE who believes competition of sanctioning bodies has been good for tractor pulling has either lived with their head in the sand or are just to dense to realize it’s not a good thing! Successful business models for sports exist all over this country and pulling follows little to none of those models. The Golden Years of pulling that everyone points to you had ONE body and that was NTPA, a small argument can be made for TNT but that’s like comparing NHRA to IHRA or AHRA. What this allowed was for NTPA to be king of the hill. The “Let’s Grow Pulling” mantra begins and ends with the conversation in this thread. The sport lacks unity and it is a sport that is over saturated in the market. The best thing for pulling would be for the big 3 to lock themselves in a white padded room and not come out until the rules are unified in all classes. Chances of that happening are slim to none because everyone is only worried about their sand box. Multiple national sanctioning bodies have ruined a sport that could have been great!

Some thoughts just because I feel like sparring:
* Have you ever watched the movie Good Will Hunting because you’re sounding like Clark.

* “Or are just too dense to realize…” Perhaps you should have held back on the business law and economics studying and focused more on grammar. Winking

* You are right that there is a lack of unity and that rules need to be unified, but I don’t believe that fact necessitates having one sanctioning body.

John Murray
Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion

Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama.
Watch LGP on YouTube
Like LGP on Facebook

Reply Quote

Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 12:00PM

chris h

First of all if the ntpa would have continued in Iowa there would be no pulling! I am 43 and i can remember the last ntpa pull at Hinton, Iowa. At the time Hinton was the 2nd biggest pull in Iowa right next to the Iowa State Fair! If I remember right there were 4 or 5 classes and there were a combined total of 15 hooks! At that point of time us tractor pulling fans were thrilled when the Outlaws got involved in pulling here! In my opinion trying to combine all orgs. is just plain dumb! Each org. has there perks and downfalls! Most important to me is that I get the choice to watch any org. I want to and I enjoy getting to watch different machines and colors and engine combos!

Reply Quote

Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 12:34PM

SMFH

Ya your right. Nascar NHRA PBR NFL NHL NBA MLB NCAA all big national organization with literally billions in advertising and payouts. But what do all them rich business people know anyway. They pry inherited or stole all that money to begin with.

When it comes to combining the big three and setting a national set of rules with a top notch schedule there are only two kinds of people. Those that are for it and understand how great it could be. And those that are ignorant morons who where born into large farming operations and are scared to compete on a level playing field that would be created.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2022 12:46AM by mh49.

Reply Quote

Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 01:03PM

chris h

Hey SMFH are you high or what NASCAR is the last model tractor pulling should follow! You do realize that there are about 8 different levels of NASCAR and each level is a CLUSTER! And you can take the NCAA out of that post that is technically amateur LOL!!! MLB has this thing called A AA AAA and each org fends for themselves MLB does not control what the minors do! And NHRA is not the only game in town there is a org called IHRA also! The NBA has the G LEAGUE they don't tell those coaches and teams what players to play and who to sit!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2022 02:03PM by Wayne Girbach.

Reply Quote

	Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 01:07PM
SMFH	Ok chris h then you tell me what tractor pullings top level is. Because There currently isnt ONE. Sorry your to small minded to see what could be. Reply Quote

	Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 01:43PM
chris h	OMG people like you kill the sport ! Enjoy what you have I get to watch OUTLAW and PPL and NTPA if i choose to! I am sure you have the same options! Combining all 3 is what the NFMS is for or Bowling Green Reply Quote

Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 02:12PM

SMFH

Bowling Green? Have you ever even seen what else is that same weekend. Kinda excludes some very good iorn. And NFMS is only one pull a year that I personally know first hand of some top runners that won't leave the shop in the cold or winter roads. But you keep thinking your right. Its peoples thinking like you that have ruined this sport.

Without one top tier national organization and schedule to follow pulling will never experience what really could be. Almost everyone across the county could name you a professional athlete in all the above mentioned national sports organizations. But almost nobody could name a tractor puller outside of the very small group that is involved with it. If you like wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars on a pulling vehicle transport vehicle tow vehicle ect. to pull for at most $2,500, Then good for you. But very very few people with that mentality has lasted in this sport for more than one generation. One generation works for the money and the next pisses it away. Regardless of your ignorance there is a way to do this and actually make it profitable. Its been done in almost everything else in existence or it dies.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2022 12:48AM by mh49.

Reply Quote

Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 02:28PM

Tomah winner

Quote
SMFH
Bowling Green? Have you ever even seen what else is that same weekend. Kinda excludes some very good iorn. And NFMS is only one pull a year that I personally know first hand of some top runners that won't leave the shop in the cold or winter roads. But you keep thinking your right. Its peoples thinking like you that have ruined this sport.

Without one top tier national organization and scedual to follow pulling will never experience what really could be. Almost everyone across the county could name you a professional athlete in all the above mentioned national sports organizations. But almost nobody could name a tractor puller outside of the very small group that is involved with it. If you like wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars on a pulling vehicle transport vehicle tow vehicle ect. to pull for at most $2,500, Then good for you. But very very few people with that mentality has lasted in this sport for more than one generation. One generation workes for the money and the next pisses it away. Regardless of your ignorance there is a way to do this and actually make it profitable. Its been done in almost everything else in existence or it dies.

Dude, Wisner ain't even that big anyways. I feel Outlaws need to accomodate to PPL and NTPA, since they started the 5.0 pro stock, which was the only class of pro stocks with those rules at the time. They didn't follow the other associations. Also their LSS isn't LSS, its like USS and LLSS combined. Their ULSS is true LSS. I know they used to have an USS class, but don't know why they got rid of it. Outlaw is a good association, don't get me wrong. I would go to there pull because I love pulling. I just don't care for their rules.

Reply Quote

Re: NTPA+PPL+OUTLAW October 19, 2022 02:27PM

Just Sayin’

I can’t help it. I have to jump in on this topic.

First……. the small minded comment after words like scedual Spinning

It’s ok, we were all thinking it.

Now, secondly. Unified rules for the “Big 3”? Go for it! Absolutely! Merge to become one organization? Fatal mistake. You will be creating even more competition in the “brush” or state level markets. Sure, you’d have your top 12 “National” events, but you’d lose dozens of current “National” events that would become either obsolete or become an individual, stand alone event (similar to NFMS). Competition always creates a better product - maybe not 100% of the time, but pretty darn close.

Reply Quote