Question to the fans about live streaming March 02, 2023 12:38PM
Poll
How much would you pay for a 6-8h live stream
This poll has expired. Voting is no longer possible.
64 votes were received.
less than 10$ 13
 
20%
more than 10$ 51
 
80%





Question(s): As many of you know, I started to live-stream events last year. I have learned a lot in the past 12 months and spent enough money on this by now, that I could have bought myself a nice new car (or two more V8s) instead. We went from crappy 720P to full HD, added slow motions and ran multi-camera angles. Next year, we will add commentary, where possible, have live interviews in the pits (depends who I am working for and how much they are willing to finance etc.)
So how much would you pay for a 6 to 8-hour show? I know a lot of sports charge like 6.99 for a match - but those are usually 2 camera angle deals and over after two hours.
The reason why I am asking is, I am wondering if it makes sense to improve the production level much more (= hire people)- or keep doing what I am doing with a "lower level of production" and try to get it out cheaper.
I am in the meanwhile of the opinion, we should have parts of our events live on Youtube, as those draw MASSIVE interest there (makes some TV numbers pale in comparison - we'd get more attention than most can imagine - which is also why I am not a big fan of "gate price for a stream") - but that doesn't cover the cost of live production and many promoters are not happy to have people watch for free.



Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2023 12:42PM by Sascha.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 02, 2023 10:06PM
Comments are welcome! We're doing this for YOU (at least I do) and to help the sport.
TV is dying a rapid death and the battle is on for viewers online. If we don't get this done right, the sport will have even more problems in the future.



Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2023 01:50AM by Sascha.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 05, 2023 05:05AM
The importance of the live stream to me is I can watch pulls I’m not willing to travel to. I’m not willing to waste my money on hotels, fuel and food when I can set in the comfort of my own home and watch it live for a fraction of the cost. Sascha, if it’s a pull I want to watch I would gladly pay more than $20 for a livestream that length.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 02, 2023 10:38PM
I will pay more than $10 for a large event. Bowling Green, Louisville etc. I just paid $45 for the Louisville finals.

I would not subscribe to a whole season of pulling events at more than $10 an event. That’s not because I don’t think it’s worth it, it’s because my summer schedule would not allow me to get a value from it. I don’t have the time nor desire to watch TV in the summer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2023 10:39PM by Stretch.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 01:48AM
Thank you for your input!
The point of "not paying for a subscription" was discussed here, too, and looking from my own point of view, I am of the exact same opinion as you.

If you like big events:
We'll have the first round of the Euro Cup season in the arena attached to the Green Monster workshop on the last weekend of April on www.wwptv.plus. HUGE event with 20+k spectators, two days, and a lineup of tractors that's mouth-watering, especially due to lots of variety at a very high level.
They have put up the lineup of some of the classes already and will keep adding more classes:
[www.facebook.com]

Full weekend live for 25.99 $ - two 7 hour sessions.
That's how I (as a fan) would want it to be.

Some drone shots from last year:




Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2023 01:56AM by Sascha.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 02:46AM
I will be tuning in for this! I think $25.99 for 14 hours of pulling is a deal. I'm interested to see how it's done on your side of the pond anyway. Will the purchase of the event allow me to watch it on my own time or is it live only? That time of year is busy and being able to watch on my schedule would make it much more feasible for me.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 05:31AM
You can watch it for a year and 2 days after purchase.



Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 04:47AM
Looking forward to it. Well worth it at $25.99.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 05:31AM
$25.99 is very reasonable for 14 hours of live pulling..My problem is a lack of knowledge to do live streaming and I dont have unlimited internet availability-etc..I will have to be content to watch video clips from MrJo or iOWNaFERGUSON-etc..I amazed at the size of the crowds that you have over there..These crowds no longer happen in my part of the US.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 05:34AM
Do you mean how to actually stream an event, or watch a stream?
Watching is pretty simple.
Nevertheless, I can show you how both is done.
As for Internet access - ever looked into starlink? That's what I partly use to get my signal out "of the woods".



Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2023 09:49PM by Sascha.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 02, 2023 10:52PM
My son and i watch ship and nfms,all sessions,also I streamed bg in 2022 in the camper on Fri and Sat afternoon sessions,only due to not wanting to be in the heat.id pay over 10 dollars without question to watch a event,

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 03:04AM
I would pay to watch a good pull like Fuchtorf if I can`t be there!!! I will be on vacation for that pull this year and will have to watch it after the fact.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 07:47AM
What hell hole are you going to this time that you have no internet Beer



Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 06:12AM
would pay between 10-20 for a full livestream. Not paying 25 per session or 45 like Louisville. Also accept apple pay or paypal. Dont make everyone set up an account with some flyby night website, that they might use the year after, that they forgot the password too. I would generally buy just about every event that I am home to watch and it doesnt look like a rainout if it was around 10-20 bucks. 100 bucks a year to watch all pulling live? I would pay that every year. Put all pulling on flo racing or something? Would pay 150 a year every year. But that will never happen because people out think the room and different orgs. will probably never work together.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 06:35AM
"Dont make everyone set up an account with some flyby night website"

The problem here is, the technology and bandwidth to broadcast the streams to the individual people watching takes ... Amazon / Google / FB... level servers.
This is nothing, even all pulling associations on the planet combined could afford.
There are companies renting server space and bandwidth, and run their streaming software on it - and from there you can then rent "your spot" from them and you can make your "fly by night website" - basically filtering your content onto the webpage, the viewer gets to see.
Still THEY do the billing.

Then you have to find one that suits what you do: Like my main public is in Europe. A US service not accepting EU-based credit cards or wanting US Zip codes / only accepts US states to register - or the other way round - doesn't do me any good.

Complex issue.
Anyhow - we found a company in Sweden, they don't charge an arm and a leg and we cover 5 countries and if the promoter reimburses our efforts, you can even watch for free.



Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2023 06:37AM by Sascha.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 10:11AM
Thanks Sascha for putting this out there and offering this opportunity to us. You get it that we have limited $$$ to spend on entertainment and also have choices where to spend that money. I wish others would see that instead of trying to rip us off for full ticket prices just to watch a show when we're a 1000 miles away and would never otherwise consider it. Yours is a Win-Win.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 11:23AM
Well - I am not only the owner of a pulling tractor and do live streams, but also a hardcore follower of motorcycle speedway ( a sport many of you probably haven't heard about). That enables me to see the "fan's point of view". Speedway has built a MASSIVE following around the world and I know how they've made their way from small events into stadiums and into social media (They paid a tv crew to put pro live streams on YT for a few years - getting so much attention, Discovery is now PAYING them for the next ten years to promote, produce and broadcast their races).
Pulling is asleep, missing all the new opportunities that come with TV dying by trying to make the "quick buck".
I have put my money, where my mouth is because I want to do what I can, to keep pulling on the map. It is not easy and I can't work for free. But I can at least try to keep the costs of watching streams at a reasonable level, so I can pay for my fuel and gear, help get more countries involved and help provide pulling streams from around the world that you and I can enjoy watching.
With Will Whitt, I have found a partner who thinks pretty similarly - and together we do wwptv.plus.



Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2023 11:25AM by Sascha.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 11:44AM
Another quote from a German puller about whether live streams hurt the attendance at pulls and thus need to charge gate prices:

"there is a lot of p..n to watch online - still the wh..s ain't out of work"



Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2023 11:46AM by Sascha.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 01:02PM
Good quote and a great view on things Sascha, I would pay more than $10 for a session of streaming, $10-20 would be fair roughly the same $ as a ticket to the event and no drive time or fuel money spent. If it is a weekend event or 2/3Day thing a little break in price to stream all weekend is a plus. You are spot on with the view that TV is dead,or at least taking heavy breaths. The sport is one of the best forms of motorsports available, only lacking one thing. Eyeballs! I think the thing that viewers and fans want and new eyeballs would love is more of the pit experience. Give faces to the names on the results sheet. There are so many great personalities in pulling that fans and newcomers alike would tune in to see/follow. The pit before the pull is a great idea to share with viewers to really generate deeper interest in the sport.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 03, 2023 10:35PM
Totally agree!
"Putting faces to the names" is a major plan for this season.
I have visited a few teams in Italy last year and I will continue to do so in Germany. Trouble is, those videos are easily 4 - 6 hours of work and then the viewing numbers are "only in the thousands" - which is good in general but not good enough to create more than a few $ on YT - it doesn't even pay for the fuel. So I usually combine those visits, when I am in the area anyways.

The results so far are here:
[www.youtube.com]

This is also something for the "creative" guys. I am too much of a tech nerd and don't know the right questions for the general public and don't get the behind-the-scenes drama. Spinning

Nevertheless, right now, along with some other folks, we are working on a podcast/web show, that can fulfill the job of giving more behind-the-scenes information and we can bring in guests remotely (without having to drive to the teams). Unfortunately for you, it will be in German. There is the Euro Pulling show on FB and Tom and Andy do a great job with it. No need to do the same as them.

Should start airing on the 15th of march:





Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2023 10:40PM by Sascha.

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 04, 2023 12:27AM
We have no problem paying $20 or so for a live stream event Sasha. Live streaming is the future of pulling and many other events as it is getting harder to get fans and families in the seats everywhere. You and Will do an excellent job with your streams and if were not pulling at a certain event and we can live stream it that's great! We also like the interviews in the pits and I would think fans agree too that it gives a personal connection with the crews and drivers. It also gives the teams a bit of a chance to promote their merchandise to fans too. Our team tries to do our part of promoting and growing the sport and believe live streaming is a big part of it. In the meantime, keep up the good work and thank you!



"Spending Their Inheritance" Pulling team
Strykersville, NY

Re: Question to the fans about live streaming March 04, 2023 05:28AM
So the first thing I consider is the promoter. Not me, not the fans, not the action coming to the pull. The promoter is the one putting their neck on the line. Not anyone else. We fuss and complain about how much it cost getting to pulls, food, and event food, but those complaints are felt by all involved life cost more now than ever. And this isn't just a pulling issue, this is a worldwide issue, a hobby issue for all types. But the promoter is the one that has get vendors, to print posters, distribute them, get sponsors, make sure pullers are coming, and so forth.

The promoter has to figure out the best in-person and online prices for Live Events. I have seen packed stands and the refusal to do Live Streams. I have also seen sparsely packed stands and the desire to push pulling content out to the world because they genuinely want you to enjoy pulling from their corner of the world. I am going to say this for all to hear, there is nothing better than a pull in person. A Live Stream will never replace the feel, raw action, and smells at the track. You have to know that. So then it becomes a serious question of what they can charge and still feel comfortable that their local fans and online fans can agree to pay. The promoter has the pulse of the region and knows what other events cost in their area. They need to understand, and in most cases I think do, how much action can be justified for $15, $20, and $25. I have told promoters that want to charge more, "This is not a $20 show yet. Let's add some classes."

So once I and the promoter come to an agreement, we try to splice in a slight discount for 2+ shows. People tend to like a deal. People also like free. I have told promoters numerous times, in the event they tell me Live Stream is forbidden, "Look, people are going to Live Stream this event. Wouldn't you prefer we controlled the action and presented it in the best format and angles possible? With sponsors on it? With replays and distances? With catering to your sponsors who put big money and can reach their businesses around the world?" People will always find a bargain live stream that any twelve-year-old can do. I have also had those same promoters come and ask to see their run when not Live Streaming. I simply say, "It will be online in a few days. I am all packed up and ready to hit the road." Now had I been Live Streaming, they have their run immediately. I have been to pulls where we Live Stream and pullers are watching the feed going over ever detail with expert audio examining their runs putting all that information into their tune for the next session of pulling. Live Streams are instant feedback to pullers and crew that is second to none.

Secondly, we have to take that Stream cost and advertise it to the world. We are glasses-wearing, awkward, and sometimes tough to understand with our versions of dialect and somehow communicate this to the world that is wanting to hear about events. We are not TV personalities so there are rough edges to us. But we ask questions fans really want to know and would ask themselves. I had one puller tell me, "you gotta stop telling people how much things costs. It makes us look foolish for doing this sport." But fans want to know these things, horsepower, cost, kind of transfer case, rear ends, chassis, and safety. Fans are always interested in this very unique sport. And we are doing the best we can with experience up to that moment to get the word out. It requires a lot of money, posting, and pre-posting about upcoming events. We ask for your patience with us.

So I have always said, invite people over like you would a football game, teach your friends what you know, learn what you don't, and become a champion for pulling. It doesn't have to be our streams but try to help us grow pulling like you would mainstream sports. And we promise we will keep the cost as low as possible and revenue split with promoters who are kind enough to help bring pulling to wherever you are. And if you know your streamer, send them a screenshot and how many people are watching with you and from where. Our phones are silent, but this is what the promoters love to hear. At Ocala, we had several viewing parties from Canada 35 and 12, and another one with several dozen. And if you are hosting a party and people are really enjoying it, tell them how to buy it for themselves and that they can go back and watch it for a year or so. Be a champion for pulling.



Will Whitt
703-626-4131
will@willwhitt.com
WWPTV Video

   

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