06:39:32pm, Friday, May 03, 2024
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Mini rod accident in Europe
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
I'm glad the young lady is ok.
Thoughts on the root cause? Mini rod accident Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2023 10:26PM by mh49. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Registered: 02/23/2017 Posts: 137 |
Look at the steering tires on the pan for her run, vs these other runs....
Iron Toy Mini Rod V8 Deutz Mini Rod Sleds work alot better when the pans are on the ground instead of riding on the steer tires. Wayyyyy too fast, case closed. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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?????
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A sled should never be set to allow that much ground speed...The safety equipment did its job and she will pull another day. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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plb
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Sure looks like the pan wheels are down to far on her pull. case closed. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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questions
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Very inappropriate sled setting!!!!! With the pan wheels running on the track the whole distance - wow, that's a new one on me, when it comes to supercharged Mini action. And not enough track run off area, let alone a prepared smooth stretch! I hope the driver is okay.
Sascha or whomever was there in Europe, 1) was this the 'test' hook?, 2) did this track actually have the required run off area length? If so, it must be quite short, as the final flagger is not that far from the end of the prepped track surface. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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plb
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Look, The sled guy messed up, there was plenty of room in the shut down area, Don`t be making a mountain out of a mole hill. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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i agree
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I would have to agree, the sled operator is definitely at fault on this one. One thing I don't understand: in the video by the full pull marker (where the announcer and guy in the blue is standing) the box is topped out, the tractor still has a huge head of steam built up if not still gaining speed, why did the sled operator not start applying sled brakes? I understand having "stellar" passes but throughout the run momentum has to be lost? this particular run there is 0 momentum lost even getting close to the end of the track. and as far as it being one of the "practice runs" maybe once again, the above post is true, adequate shut down area, proper sled settings, or maybe even a proper sled for a mini rod of this caliber. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,149 |
The steering wheels on the sled pan weren't up - so the pan never really touched the ground. Additionally, the sled was very light.
The run out area is more than 100 ft there (its 330 ft to the checkered flag, 30 ft for floating finish and then another 60 ft or so into the hill). You can check the class here: Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2023 12:54AM by Sascha. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Registered: 02/23/2017 Posts: 137 |
Sascha,
Who owns the Try Again mini sled? Was it recently built or was it purchased from another country & rebuilt? It looks awful small to be running mini unlimiteds. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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FansOnly
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We have garden tractor sleds that more beefy than that one.... |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Independent of the real root cause, whatever it was, it's worth to look and compare typically older and newer sleds with each other.
It seems that older sleds (e.g. built in late 90s or early 00s), are of lower empty weight, lower capability of overall weight and/or different in the ratio of empty and overall weight. Furthermore the aspect of single or multiaxle principle related to longitudinal stability etc. Many people telling that they prefer the multiaxle because it obviously runs more stable, or isn't that light-footed around the vertical axis. I'm not sure if this is caused alone by the more rigid contact of two against one axle, or if it is also related to the perhaps longer complete sled structure, and the combined higher rotational inertia around the vertical axis. Another item which maybe matters with longitudinal stability, as well with other criteria, is the length of the pan. Furthermore I would assume that the resistance margin during critical situations is directly affected by a short pan. Just look at a sled and compare the relative length compared to pulling vehicle. Do this at latest sled creations and compare with older sleds. The Danish sled in scope seems to have a quite old design in terms of pan length. As someone already stated, some older Mini Rod sleds are looking nowadays alike made for garden pulling. I hope that the responsible tech people will learn their lesson and introduce safety mechanisms of whatever nature to avoid incidents like this. From daily business with machinery safety I know that electronic controlled safety functions are state of the art to get rid of things like that. And I'm sure that they will introduce something like that. Furthermore, the rated max speed during qualifying runs sometimes are abnormal high. As somebody already said, if things go wrong it matters if you're falling at 8mph or 15mph off the saddle. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,149 |
Usually - or let's say at the sleds in my area, I am not sure whether it is in the rules - there is a safety switch on the pan wheels, which doesn't allow the sled operator to switch to green if the wheels aren't up. Could have been a bad electrical contact in this case. It's all speculation at this point, the accident is under investigation.
The (licensed) sleds in Europe are usually stuffed with safety electronics monitoring box travel, crash boxes, and calculated front-end strength, so the box can't come out,... I had a call with her father yesterday. She wore a HANS System, and still has whiplash and bruises but is otherwise ok. Something he pointed out: They have a pretty deep roll cage and she was sitting pretty deep in it, so her legs couldn't get out, which in his opinion, prevented some broken leg bones. Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2023 12:27AM by Sascha. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Yes, I agree, drivers can benefit from some minor differences. Some years ago I recognized huge differences in vertical seat positioning at e.g. Super Stock tractors. I mentioned that I like to see more people choose a "deeper" seating pos compared to the old style. For instance look and compare some of the old tractors and the so-called P-point (automotive development language, center of pelvic position), with lets say the Galot tractors or other latest creations. The basic thing about that is, when the vehicle tilts sideways, the trajectory of the upper body region depends on the radius to the actual pivot point of rotation, which probably is the ground contact area of the wheels. A higher seat pos means larger radius, leads to higher trajectory velo, which end up in a much more violent impact when the cage hits the ground.
An additional item is the recognized behaviour of the lower body parts, especially legs. It has been observed many times at similar incidents with Mini Rods that the legs will thrown away sideways, causing excessive knee joint stress etc. The only thing regarding both, seat position and leg protection, is to formulate recommendations, alike the usage of a HANSS. For additional leg protection maybe it seems helpful to get kind of a padded support structure there, which shall prevent the legs from throwing away and especially "outboard" beyond the chassis width. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Rudy
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Logan,
As far as I could identify the sled it seems to be the Danish mini sled. Comparing it with old photo's I have of it, it seems to been overhauled recently. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,149 |
As Rudy rightly says - it's the sled of the Danish association. I have not too much info about it.
It's still under investigation, to why the wheels could be down. Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Registered: 10/31/2017 Posts: 14 |
The front wheels on the sled may not have been lifted - But they were merely rolling and could be lifted by a couple of fingers according to people working on the sled.
It look funky to me too, but apparently they didn't hold any weight. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Saying the pan wheels were somehow down but wouldn't carry a load at all, is comparable to saying my girlfriend is only a bit pregnant. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Registered: 01/03/2019 Posts: 280 |
It looks like the driver also blew threw the red flag, too, without letting off. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,149 |
She didn't - there are other videos where you can see her letting off before the she got the red flag.
That said - a human has a reaction time of up to one second. That's up to one second for the flagman to realize something is wrong and another second for the driver to react to the red flag. That's 70 ft to 100 ft at this speed. My opinion: We need an official who can activate the push-down (not the kill switch) externally and we also need something more up-to-date than a flagman (only) at the finish line. From a driver's point of view, you never know where exactly they are and you not always have the time to look at them. They had an interesting system at a pull in Sweden a few years ago. Several poles with flashing lights at the end of the track. If those started flashing red, the driver couldn't miss it. Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2023 12:45AM by Sascha. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Unfortunately there is no such thing as the "end of the track" in the USA anymore, outside of possibly BG.
The ground speed with the long tracks, and consequently the shorter run-off areas, will lead to more accidents like this. Pullers will just have to accept that risk. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Carlsson
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Makes as much sense as settling the finish line at the edge of the sand pile, making it necessary to ruin your tractor to end up in the top 3. The mentioned flashing cones seem really useful, but can be a problem with bright daylight circumstances. Could be added with a flashing beacon on the pulling vehicle itself, right in the proximity of the oil pressure redlight to signal the driver that something is going wrong. The activators can be at multiple positions, one for the sled operator, one for the track marshal... |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,149 |
"with bright daylight circumstances"
Still better than some dude with a flag somewhere at the end of the track only  Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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The first year there were mini rod's in Rockwell they were Wisconsin state mini rods. 500 ci. 8-71 they came with the same sled that they pulled in Wis. all the time. First hook went about 170 ft. Sled and track guy had a conversation, dropped a gear, every other one in the class coasted to a 350-400 distance some lifting well before 200 ft. Pulled them again in the original gear and they were all stopped about 300-350. First time around the drivers all knew it wasn't a hook of a lifetime deal, and backed out of it. But clearly the sled had issues here. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Obviously they had a bit similar situation last weekend at another location in EU. During a run the pan wheels went down and the vehicle was able to accelerate significantly further than intended. Luckily the driver had a nice sense and a bit of luck that the the train stopped smoothly inline. |
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Re: Mini rod accident in Europe
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Registered: 07/30/2016 Posts: 12 |
Good job driving on her part, out of the throttle and didnt stab the brakes, sure it ended up rolling but could have got real ugly |
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