Can it compete June 26, 2023 03:09PM
Is anyone out there having luck running a hercules on diesel in a 3000rpm class or even bigger? I have heard their heads were junk and couldn't flow air to make them competitive. Is this true? I know some organizations do not allow the 8.3 as a replacement for them and didn't know how the hercs were stacking up against the rest. I always loved the looks of them old 2150s and 2255s(I know 3208 not a hercules) you just never see them on the track any more. Thanks for your input Have a great day!
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Re: Can it compete July 06, 2023 12:54PM
I used to have one and they probably could be made to run but it would take more money than some other colors. There are no readily available aftermarket parts available. None of them had very good injection pumps. You can put a p pump on them but it takes some work. They have dry sleeves so it harder than some to increase the bore size. The valves have 7/16 stems which doesnt do much for air flow and new custom valves are about $1000.00. The cams are steel so you cant regrind them like you can an Ih or deere because the hard case is very shallow and a billet cam runs about 1,300 or more. They dont have cross flow heads so both manifolds are on the same side and are kind of hard to work on. The stock pistons have really small bowls and really suck for pulling. The injectors only have 2 holes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2023 12:56PM by J&R Machine.
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Re: Can it compete July 07, 2023 03:41AM
Do you think it could be competitive In a class like the IPA farm stock where they are limited to a 2.3 charger and 2800 RPM? Or would it be seriously lacking air?
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Re: Can it compete July 07, 2023 04:06AM
Not with stock parts.
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Re: Can it compete July 07, 2023 08:07AM
Yes it can with a good pump and injectors dont worry about the 7/16 stems and flow if you have boost that means back pressure that dont equal flow with a good 2,3 charger and 2800 rpms you will be just fine
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Re: Can it compete July 07, 2023 08:32AM
The pistons in these engines are designed for the multifuel army truck motors. The bowls are only about 1" in diameter . The injector only has 2 holes and it sprays at a really strange angle. There is no way you will get an injector with a good spray pattern that will spray all the fuel into these bowls. You need custom pistons which will cost about $3,000. Here is a video of my old tractor after I sold it. The throttle cable broke during this pull. The guy I sold this to bought this camshaft and I feel it was way too big.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2023 09:19AM by J&R Machine.
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Re: Can it compete July 07, 2023 12:09PM
Be careful with that IPA class. The rules might say 2.3 but those are a lie. They’re running 3x3.3 precision chargers with a piece of wire or a bull ring basically as the slug for the turbo. Air can come in all around, basically making the rule worthless. Those tractors couldn’t run the way they do with a 2.3 turbo.
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Re: Can it compete July 07, 2023 10:26AM
On where you want to finish. Middle of the pack maybe but there are lots of 6030's and 1066's with between 1000-1200 hp in that class. You will need 505 cubes and a "special" turbo to compete.
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Re: Can it compete July 08, 2023 01:35PM
If you want to take shots atleast get your numbers right. Most are running a 2.8x3.35 turbo with a few special 3x3 turbos in the class. Most are running 505 in the class this year. Max limit is 510 unless you are running a Deere which some can run the 531. It’s a very competitive group. Last year a 1066-466 won points champ.

As long as the engine and chassis bolt up without adapter plates we would love to see something new in the class. We allow up to p7100 pump. Any questions please feel free.

Jason
IPA director.
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Re: Can it compete July 08, 2023 03:43PM
Why even have a 2.3 rule if no one follows it then? Why not change it to a 2.8 or 3 inch inlet and be done with it? Seems very misleading to say 2.3 when no one is actually running a 2.3? I have nothing to do with the class, just seems silly to me to have a rule that no one is following.
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Re: Can it compete July 09, 2023 02:28AM
Seems that an 8.3 in an Oliver would be way more legal than a 2.8 turbo in a 2.3 class? What’s a “special” 3x3 anyway? Lmao
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Re: Can it compete July 09, 2023 01:58AM
Jason Kirby so would he be legal to run an 8.3 cummins? because they did come in some whites even though he is thinking of building an oliver, white bought oliver and some Oliver's were produced while they were under the white umbrella? Just asking because that might be a better way for him to go.
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Re: Can it compete July 09, 2023 09:03AM
As far as an 8.3 Cummins in a white or Oliver yes they are legal as long as they bolt up. Sorry but I’m not up on my Oliver’s to know if an adapter plate is needed or what rearend to use. As long as the axle, frame, rearend and motor bolt up it’s legal. Doesn’t matter what hood you want to use.

The 2.3 rule was put in way before my time and no I don’t think it needs to stay but it is. We have a rules meeting this winter for this class. We shall see how things shake out then.

Any serious questions feel free to ask.
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Re: Can it compete July 09, 2023 02:47PM
So.... what exactly is the turbo rule? This poor guy in OP, likely would have built a tractor and put a "True" 2.3 on it and would have got his back side handed to him. So my question is. What is the "Actual Turbo Rule" ?
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Re: Can it compete July 10, 2023 02:35AM
Never known an adapter plate to give you more horse power...
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Re: Can it compete July 10, 2023 10:57AM
Jason Kirby, my question regarding the turbo, is a serious question. Thanks in advance for a serious response.
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Re: Can it compete July 11, 2023 11:07PM
I think what Mr. Kirby “doesn’t” want to say here is that there is NO actual turbo limit. I belive that’s why he has avoided answering your question. The main concern in this class is how a 6030 big block is allowed to run in the class at 531 cubes while everyone else with small blocks has to stay under 505? They did not allow P pumps on red ones until last summer. And they aren’t allowed to shift the ta if it has a p pump. OH WAIT, there’s more! The 6030s also get to run the same rpm’s as the smaller cube motors! Makes total sense right?? Another question is, how many pulls did this 466 points champion actually win last year when pulling against the bigger cube motors? You can finish in the back of the pack each night out and still win points. I’m not running down the points champion at all, just saying as long as your consistent and hit all the pulls you can win points and never win a pull.
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Re: Can it compete July 12, 2023 04:47PM
To answer your question on how many pulls did the 466 points champion win I won the first 3 hooks of season and I won 2 other hooks. The tractor was in top 4 finisher in class most every night. Yes I can compete with the 6030 and the p pumps. I also ran the whole season last year with the 2.3 slug in my turbo that sucks air though the center of the slug!! Just to clarify also this 466 tractor has been in the top 4 points every year but one since this class was started. It’s won the points 3 other years as well since 2012. To answer the question of the what rule is says a 2.3 inducer within 2 inches of the face of the wheel.
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Re: Can it compete July 13, 2023 04:18AM
What color has won every pull in that class this year ?
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White didn’t start using Cummins until July 11, 2023 11:49PM
The Workhorse series of tractors, otherwise known as the transition from Field Boss to Workhorse. The 2-1 series was done away with and it became the 100 series ranging from 100 to 195 models. 100-145 models had the 5.9, 160-195 had the 8.3.
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