01:09:33pm, Sunday, April 28, 2024
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NTPA rules
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
At the risk of some people saying that I'm always against the NTPA I will pose my post with a few questions. 1, Should the NTPA be concerned with the number of lugs on a tire, be it. 48 or 52 or any amount of lugs the pullers want have? 2, Is the NTPA micro managing the pullers choices? 3, Should the NTPA outlaw a certain brand of products [tires] that the pullers can use? 4, Should NTPA just give everyone first place points to all the pullers running for points when any class has more than 25 entries to keep it fair? Yes, question 4 is saranac! Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: NTPA rules
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 762 |
#1 never has made sense to me. Curious on their thought process on it.
I get the thought on #2 & 3, but where do you draw the line. Engine builders and pump shops have been giving their best customers their best parts forever. How does NTPA propose to ‘even that out’? |
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Re: NTPA rules
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Dave Dann
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IMHO, I believe that when NTPA 'created & endorsed' these 'new' tractor pulling classes, they installed certain limits in order to (try to) contain each class (SF, Lgt PS, Lim PS, HF, LLSS) in order to keep them from becoming 'out of control' in cost and thus dramatically changing the face of the class as has been experienced over the decades with LSS, SSD and especially the 1979 "starter and economical class of Pro Stock".
Thus, if it means keeping a traction tire with about the same number of lugs used in a standard field tire, I get it. Instead of allowing a custom made drag strip type tire. Dick, you must be writing your thread from the scenic "saranac" lake. While trying to make question 4 to be sarcasm - 
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Re: NTPA rules
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Dave. Yes I was in beautiful Saranac Lake, however that was 2 months ago. So I guess my spell checker changed it for me. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: NTPA rules
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Well
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When you have tires being made that are big slicks and you cut the tread into them you have endless options for making tires. Having a lug count limit seems logical to me.
Why have a cubic inch limit if we don’t want to limit lugs on a tire? |
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Re: NTPA rules
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Wait
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Just wait a couple weeks and they will resend most of the rules they just made. Seams to be the way they do things lately. |
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Re: NTPA rules
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Well, I don't think that there is a connection with 4 extra lugs and cubic inches. I'm not really sure that having 48 lugs or 52 really matters. However an extra 150 cubic inches over the rest of the class might be considered a unfair advantage. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: NTPA rules
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Badgerfan
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I am not sure how it effects the bigger stuff but I know from experience back when I had garden tractors and the new tires came out with different lug counts it made a huge difference. In that instance the Cepeks fell behind pretty fast but made guys go back to the drawing board with gearing and set up. Does the new Mitas tires in the modified class have a different lug count than the older tires or are they just wider different foot print and you can cut the lug angles different?
Another view to look at it with. With the newer tires better traction it makes guys have to change gearing to be able to turn the tires. Then they end up having to change/re engineer there driveline to prevent breakage. All of this adding cost to the class. Some guys can do it easily and some can't. Then you have to worry about breakage and class numbers dropping through the season limiting your show. Or having the guys that did upgrade running an extra 20 feet or so and the guys that can't sitting back further or dropping out because they can't compete. Either way not putting on a good show for the fans. If we use the modifieds for example they have had to upgrade everything for the new Mitas tires. I would be curious how many sat out or scaled back because of the tires. After all that being said did all the changes that were made add any excitement or benefit to the quality of the show? I watched an interview with Tim Engler and he was hoping they would go away from the new tires because it was getting to expensive trying to keep the tractor going and constantly fixing drive line issues. Nothing against Mitas just trying to point out there is more to it than just changing tires. I think there just trying to head off issues before now instead of waiting until its too late like they did with the modifieds and pro stocks. I would hate to see the other classes get more expensive so then we would have to create another new entry level class. |
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Re: NTPA rules
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nail on the head
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This statement hit the nail squarely on the head:
"After all that being said did all the changes that were made add any excitement or benefit to the quality of the show?" The simple answer is no. All it really did was cause many people to spend hoards of money that was not in any way required. The more complicated answer is yes, because while the few priveledged individuals were able to gain a competitive advantage for a while, it gave the appearance they were way better than their competitors........until they all got the same tires (or insert latest greatest component here). Just spending money to go roughly the same distance and put on essentially the same show at the end of the day. |
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Re: NTPA rules
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roadkill
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In my opinion, new products add to the quality of the show... Watching Joe Eder at the Enderle 3 years ago put +70 feet on everyone else caused alot of excitement for the fans (the people thay pay to watch the SHOW..).... Yes, everyone else has to catch up but that is from innovation... Did we outlaw screw blowers? Did we outlaw non-OEM produced blocks? Did we outlaw (put component name here) other??
Concerning limiting the number of lugs on a tire: different tracks like different tires.. Sandy vs. loam vs. clay.. Mitas and others have a tire which has no lugs and can be made however the owner wants it cut... Are the current tires that have a certain number of lugs already molded in at a disadvantage? Possibly... Perhaps someone is trying to protect those that have old technology and dont want or know how to change..... If the sport just wants to keep the status quo, perhaps NTPA should come out with a spec chassis/engine/tire combo for each class and all parts must be made to spec. That is close to the argument above...Would make tech alot easier..Thats the new NASCAR model and I'm sure everyone here enjoys that.... |
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Re: NTPA rules
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nail on the head
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For the record, I never said to outlaw anything.
What I was attempting to explain is that "innovation" only temporarily changes the show, and it just causes the rest of the competitors to spend more money to reach and maintain the same/similar result (pull for 300'-350'). Yes, the first few people on board get to look like genius heroes for a while (which at this point is more about money & privilege and less about innovation), but in the end it all becomes the same when most/all other competitors buy in. Hence everyone spends money for the same/similar result. Remember we are talking about predominantly purchased components here, and less about something that someone independently dreamed up in his own shop. Is that entertaining for the fans? I suppose. But ultimately after some time passes, it just becomes the new normal. But as competitors we all tend to jump on the same wagon sooner or later, so I guess the system works! Lol! |
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Re: NTPA rules
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TOM
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While screw blowers weren't outlawed, after Boyd's monster Session 1 pass at Bowling Green, they were limited in the rules. One guy dominating the field will kill a class. Examples- Bauer's Double Nutted the first few years when NTPA came out with the Light Unlimited. The rules have changed a few times and that class still has not got off the ground. Another- ATPA LSS, remember when Squealer had the grandfathered OHC that nobody else could have? One thing I do enjoy about the modern NTPA Unlimited Mod class is there are numerous combos, and different people win and are competitive. Even F1 fans are getting tired of the same driver winning all the time. The days of someone building something themselves and being able to win largely went out the door when guys discovered they could make a business building chassis, engines, etc. for others with funds to spend. |
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Re: NTPA rules
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TOM
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** By "numerous combos" in the unlimited class, I mean different engine configurations and blower combos. For example, did Mark Cole run 2 roots and 2 screw blowers this year? I think the hemis have gone beyond what allisons and turbines can consistently produce, although I'd like to see something like General Stage IV actually get a set of Mitas tires to hook up and see how it would do. |
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Re: NTPA rules
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Tom. You are comparing two different things
Anyone can buy a set of Mitas tires, however as you pointed out Meese was grandfathered in. Not the same thing. |
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Re: NTPA rules
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Registered: 09/26/2021 Posts: 71 |
Double nutted dominated the class because he was able to make it light enough to fit one more motor than anyone else. They didn’t give the time for others to figure out how to do it too, they just changed the rules to get rid of it. |
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Re: NTPA rules
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Mitas is half price of Propuller, so the rule make no sence to me. |
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Re: NTPA rules
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Where did you find them at half price? |
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