08:09:32am, Monday, May 06, 2024
|
No Practice Podcast
|
Registered: 08/16/2021 Posts: 306 |
Has everyone listened to the No Practice Podcast hosted by Adam Koester, Chase Richardson and Tyler Slaugh? if not I'd suggest finding it. The three of them go right into the hot button topics (mostly in the mini class so far) and are rather entertaining while doing it!
On episode 2 they interviewed Adam Bauer and that was quite interesting! He is a man of few words with interesting stories to tell! I'm enjoying laughing and listening to the stories of the group while they argue like all of us here about whats best for the sport and themselves (the pullers). They also mentioned in episode 2 that they hate this site but to each their own! |
|
Re: No Practice Podcast
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
I listened to 2 of the pod casts and I enjoyed their views on the NTPA rules. I believe Chase was very vehement on the rule for certain classes that have more than 25 entries. The plan is to group all the NTPA competitors that are running for points into 1 group somewhere in the class. This rule is not only confusing to the fans and in a big event like BG can totally change the race for the ring. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2023 05:16AM by Dick Morgan. |
|
No Practice Podcast
|
Registered: 08/16/2021 Posts: 306 |
I agree this will totally change BG and in my opinion not for the better. This rule change makes me think of the pro stock class especially. Can you imagine if for example all of the grand national guys start the class? Then you've got another two hours of watching some heavy hitters like the Mastersons or El Nino from PPL but the majority of the remainder of the class will be filled with the "also pulled" tractors that people didn't come to watch? In my opinion this is going to cause a lot of people to lose interest in certain classes at BG. I have the utmost respect for all pullers and I appreciate them putting on a show for us. But I think we can all agree we can sit in the stands at BG and go yeah this ones going 290' on a good day for solid portion of the larger classes like the pro stocks.
It seems to me that Chase's views on the new rules differ greatly from Tyler and Adam. Which makes for an interesting listen. |
|
Re: No Practice Podcast
|
Registered: 09/26/2021 Posts: 71 |
The new rule about jumping more than one class up will cut out a few of the PS entries. Still think they can just score the GN points runners separately points wise. You finished 20th overall, but you are the 7th GN back you get points for 7th for points tally. The new 25 rule is all a big we aren’t happy pullers from the (other) series come and beat too many of our series at big events. The cream rises to the top no matter the number they are in the order for the most part. |
|
Question about NTPA 25 entry rule?
|
TOM
|
Will the "top 25" draw 1 pill collectively to see where they pull, or will they be put at the beginning or end? I didn't see that defined. Not a fan of the rule.
Last year at BG, even with large classes, some guys won hooking near the beginning and others near the end. For one absurd example, this year, Ft. Recovery Session 1, mini had 26 entries. 21 of them had a GN license, so all this ado to move around 5 vehicles. Btw, one of the non-GN licensed pullers was Ken Veney, who was high up in the standings. Had there been two fewer entries, it would have been situation normal. |
|
Re: Question about NTPA 25 entry rule?
|
TOM
|
..... meaning if this rule was in effect this year for the above example ... |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
solution
|
GN points registered "Elites" get put into their own group and then the so-called 'underdogs' (and believe me, they all are not) get put into their own group and that is discrimination, and even more so if the "elitists" are in the class's middle group. What is fair about that?
The real problem is the old NTPA points system that does not properly reward the puller's effort. In those big classes, the GN points chasers "elitists" from 15th place and lower all get 15 'action' points. 15th place and 28th place and 43rd place in GN points registration all get 15 action points. Nothing fair and equitable to reward the better placer. That is the real problem. And the reason the "elitists" are wanting to be placed into their own group within the big class. ***Solution, the NTPA points system needs to be completely overhauled.*** An association I helped co-found set up the points like I describe below and it worked very equitably. Assign 'x' number of points for entry/show up. It has been 15. Okay, lets say we keep it. (Personally, I believe that's too high.) Now we need to assign 'action' points. That is based on the number of entries. NTPA has been using 1 point per entry but it only goes to 15, whether you have 1 in the class or 51 or whatever, which is the fallacy. The following solution example are based solely upon registered points chasers. That is a very key statement. In our system, if only 1 entry, puller gets 1 action point plus 15 entry points. If 9 in the class, 9 action points are awarded plus 15 entry points. If 17 in the class, 17 action points plus 15 entry points. If in a huge class with actually 51 registered points chasers, then 51 action points and 15 entry points to the winner. Last place then is 1 action and 15 entry points. Thus every puller is rewarded the proper points based upon their performance. And even if there are non-points chasers in the pull, it still rewards the "elitist" points chasers equitably. |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
Registered: 08/16/2021 Posts: 306 |
Why would they ever do that? It makes too much sense. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2023 11:52PM by BrandonA. |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
Tomah winner
|
That isn't completely correct. IF there are 50 2WD Trucks at Bowling Green, and there are 20 GN Points competitors, only the placers 16-20 get a max of 15 points. You said if they are 15th, 28th, or 43rd in the finishing order they get 15 "action points". Instead, I am saying that if a GN competitor gets 10th place in finishing order, but only has 2 GN trucks finish above him, then he gets the amount of points that 3rd place would get, since the other 7 trucks above him are not GN competitors. Maybe this is the same as what you said, idk. |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
solution
|
Yes, Tomah winner, you are confused.
I know how the NTPA and literally every other pulling organization uses the same points system, how it works. I've been in this sport for decades and calculated our association points for many years. So, please go back and read and slowly COMPREHEND what I said. I will give you a clue: This is what I stated in my post = "The following solution example are based solely upon registered points chasers. That is a very key statement." Yes, concentrate upon "registered points chasers" when you restudy what I said about overhauling the points system. And since you brought up the TWD class, a few years ago, I had a very mathematician friend recalculate the GN "registered" points chasers points right after the season concluded. In my proposed points calculation system, there would have been a different champion. and what made the real difference is when in those big classes, there are too many 15 point pullers. And that is what the pullers are really 'complaining' about, although they really do not realize that is the real problem why they feel they are getting the short end of the stick. This year BG, 2nd session PS, there where a few "registered GN points earners", you know, i.e., the "elitists" that put their tractor through a bona fide run and yet only earned 15 points. And meanwhile there were a few "PS's" meaning Points Scratch because they broke the previous session. So you have tractors broken and tractors that made a bona fide hook, all earning 15 points. What is fair about that????????? My proposed system would give those pullers making a bona fide hook the proper number of 'action' points. And even in this same class, were some DQ's that went out of bound and they would have earned at least 16 point (or more depending on how many non-fuel issues DQ's there were), for their bona fide hook. I am saying it is long past due time to give the pullers their fair and proper points based upon their track performance action. |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
Registered: 08/16/2021 Posts: 306 |
Having listened to episode 3 of the podcast the 3 guys on the show made it abundantly clear that they hate the new points system. It seems the proposal they came up with is if you have 53 tractors then first place gets 53 points and last gets 1. I like this idea but then you are weighting pulls basically. In other words you could potentially win twice at Bowling Green and win the points for the season in a class like the minis, pro stocks, or twd.
I like where they are going with this points system but I'd change it slightly. I'd make every pull worth 100 points for first. and descend by 1 point for each place after that. In other words at a smaller GN pull last place still might get 85 points. But if you get last at BG you might only get 40 points. I also believe that like the guys on the podcast said every vehicle should count for points. For example if Tinker Toy is not a GN vehicle but pulls at BG then they still earn points. The guys argument here was that every vehicle should count. Regardless this grouping the 25 grand national vehicles in larger classes at places like BG is an incredibly dumb idea. It'll potentially change the BG ring competition. The other really good idea discussed by the group is moving to a qualifying system at larger pulls like NHRA does or BG did for the 50th anniversary. It seems that pullers are in favor of this so the argument "that another expensive pass for pullers" is at least partially invalid. Although I'm sure not all pullers would agree with this. |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
Don't think it will impact the BG ring race. The ring is based on placing not points. So if you come in first, regardless of how many NTPA points you get, you would still have one point for the ring. A regional licensed or even a perhook vehicle can win the ring (as has been done numerous times). Again, just my interpretation of the rule. |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
The problem is the placing of the NTPA points chasers. If the put the NTPA group first and the track goes away then any pullers that hooks after the points chasers has little chance of winning the ring. If the opposite happens then the points chasers have little chance either. Putting one group of pullers in a block, either first, last or middle can very easily change the ring winner. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
Dick, so you think that the track will change that much in 10-12 hooks? That is about the maximum number of championship chasers there would be--and in some classes, even less than that. |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Jim I view it like letting men play in women's sport. What seems like a great idea to a bunch of lost liberals turns out to shaft the other 99% of REAL women that make up their respective sport. It's the same thing to me, you have chosen one class of people {pullers} that are getting special treatment. I realize my opinion is way out side the issue here but to me what is fair is fair. No favorites. |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
Long time puller
|
Bandit I've been pulling for nearly 50 years, and yes I've seen tracks change immensely many times after even 2 or 3 hooks. All depends on the track and weather. Sometimes the tracks go away and other times they get better. It's just the luck of the draw! |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
solution
|
I have listened to the 'so-called meat' of each of the 3 sessions. They sure know how to peddle a lot of nothing and bs!! Chase has no clue how the decades old NTPA points system even works, despite how simple it is, but when asked to explain it, he sure knows how to rant and rave and condemn it because he thinks it is too complicated.
BrandonA, the problem with giving every entry points is when especially when in the big event(s), you get the 'non-committed to the season' per hook entry whom can possibly chalk up a lot of points pending great track performance, which certainly can distort the overall points of a 'committed to the season' puller. Thus, why should the 'non-committed' puller be rewarded with points? And making every "every pull worth 100 points for first" is way too many. You get to Region and State events, and I have seen it in GN, where you get 3 entries (GN SSD), why should they receive a bloated number of points, be it your proposed 100 or the current 30? That is part of the problem with the old and still current NTPA points system, especially when there are only a few 'registered' pullers per any given class. That discourages a puller who broke and misses 1 or 2 events to get fixed, to get back into the points chasing game again. However, my proposal eliminates all of the aforementioned problems. And there appears to me that Entry/Hook (choose whichever term you want as it stills means the same thing) points are confusing to a lot of pullers. It simply means that is your reward for showing up at an event, pending according to the rule book, you have an eligible legal ready to run vehicle. Personally, I believe the 15 entry points should be reduced to 5, be it in the current NTPA system or my proposed points complete overhaul proposal. Even if the current 30 maximum points system was retained and implemented only 5 hook points, at least 10 extra pullers would earn bona fide 'action' points to reward their effort. That would solve a lot of current points issues. Until you get to the 'big events' with more than 25 'registered' points chasers. Then unfortunately, we are back to only awarding entry points for the bottom end performance 'registered' pullers, which again can make the difference between possibly winning a championship or not. You might say that would never happen. I have seen that happen too many times over the decades in any given class. And again, we proved that a few years ago when we recalculated the end of season points via my proposal in the GN TWD class and there would have been a different champion. |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
simple solution
|
Easy solution: for those worried about Bowling Green, make it non-points pull. they will still attend due to the prestige of the event. |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
solution
|
Bandit 496, since you sit on the NTPA board, is WPI asking or consulting the NTPA Board about their views of the 25+ grouping proposal?
What is the time line for making the decision? And to implement their proposed system after Chapel Hill makes absolutely no common sense. It is very discriminatory to the 'big events' prior to Chapel Hill. No matter how you look at it, their proposal is nothing but discrimination =" dis·crim·i·na·tion | dəˌskriməˈnāSH(ə)n | noun 1 - the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things" |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
Let me get this straight ......at this point in time, my opinion is known by only me. What I am trying to do here is explain it the best I can as I understand the proposed rule. There is just a lot of misinformation about it that people have already made up their minds from. The proposal was brought to the Board by at least two different class committees, so there is that. |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
Registered: 05/03/2015 Posts: 17 |
So Jim if only 2classes have complained/brought it to the Wpi attention then why would they even consider this rule when we have 10 or so other classes. Seems to me and almost everyone else that this rule is WRONG for Ntpa and the few elite teams with money are trying to strong arm Wpi. Luck of the draw is luck of the draw! Also if you don’t think the track changes very little why would we need to implement this rule? Also why not start the rule at the start of the season and not halfway through or is this rule only for Bg and Rockwell? Is there any good explanation for that question or is it a BG thing? I know if I was a Blue Shirt I would not be very happy with being singled out like that! |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
solution
|
bandit496, which 2 class divisional committees?
And from your comments, obviously WPI board is not asking NTPA board for input. The other thing that is striking, is that in the No Practice Podcast interview with Adam Bauer, he did not even know that Slagh's Minis are now illegal and did not even know about the proposed 25 grouping (unless I missed hearing it) and yet his dad is WPI president with that board totally responsible for the rules. |
|
Re: FALLACY about NTPA 25 entry rule
|
Registered: 08/16/2021 Posts: 306 |
You heard correctly |
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,704, Posts: 229,806, Members: 3,330.
This forum: Topics: 37,081, Posts: 225,953.
Global: Topics: 38,704, Posts: 229,806, Members: 3,330.
This forum: Topics: 37,081, Posts: 225,953.
Our newest member LT Limited Pro
