LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 03, 2023 10:20AM
Since the season has come to an end and organizations are planning year end meetings what are the thoughts and concerns of everyone regarding turbos for the diesels in the LLSS Class, Now not trying to start any kind of argument, strictly want opinions only. There's been alot of talk and rumors from pullers in the class wanting to know, heard one organization was going to have everyone run the same turbo ( alcohol or diesel ) heard another was gonna let diesels have a 3.4 smooth bore. Again strictly looking for opinions only -- not trying to start up any arguments, just looking for opinions. Hope everyone has a good class meeting and banquet.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 04, 2023 02:05AM
My opinion is that all clubs should have all of the engine and turbo combinations offered in their class. What I mean by that, is to have the following:

315 twin turbo with cooler
360 twin turbo without cooler
360 single turbo alcohol
410 single turbo with cooler
470 single turbo without cooler

Each club can decide what they want to do for turbo sizes and weight because it seems like it's impossible for us to agree on those 2 things. But that's okay. NTPA has created a standard for this class, the closer we compare our clubs rules to the NTPAs rules the better it will be for everyone. The more we unify this class across the nation the more this class will continue to grow.

But back to the original question, i think a smooth bore 3 by anything out could work with all of these combinations. If every combination had to use a smooth bore turbo I think that would make it simpler and probably help end some complaining

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 05, 2023 08:06AM
Does anyone have NTPA's new rule for the class? (LLSS)

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 05, 2023 12:25PM
Light Limited Super Stock – limit all diesel engines to 3.4 x 4-inch smooth bore turbo including those engine sizes that allow two turbos. Use of a 3.0 x 4-inch turbo with MAP ring is no longer allowed

[ntpapull.com]

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 06, 2023 02:05AM
Does the LLSS class allow alcohol tractors to run a cooler or not?

In my opinion, and I don't want to try to hurt anybody's feelings, LLSS should not allow 470 as a cubic-inch engine choice. It's just too big. At that point, you might as well allow 8,500lb Limited Pro Stocks to run in the class at the LLSS weight.

Also, and I'm just wondering, why not allow alcohol tractors to run twin turbos with no cooler at 315? It's small, they don't have extra power from the cooler, and make them run at the light weight.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 06, 2023 02:47AM
The cat is already out of the bag on allowing the 470 combination, just about every club allows 470s and there's nothing wrong with that combination. There isnt a combination that dominates the other, thats what makes this class so cool. If an 8500 limited pro can get down to weight they are welcome to pull in the class. That 315 twin turbo on alcohol without cooler combination could be cool, but most alcohol tractors in llss are based off a 5.9 cummins or dt360 so they'd have to decube but it could be done.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 06, 2023 03:22PM
Tomah winner, I believe the coolers are only for the diesel, which the 410 and 470 are. Alky are 315 to 360, but can also be diesel.
315 accommodates the AC 180 301 engine (gas & diesel) and IH 312 diesel engine. That 312 when twin turboed is very lethal, as proven by Rex Kuhn's tractor.

Someone should post the whole NTPA LLSS engine rules, as they are no longer posted on the Tech page.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 12:24AM
Why aren’t the alcohol tractors allowed the 3.4 turbo?

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 01:53AM
I would like to know the same thing? The same turbo limit for all would make the most sense.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 02:11AM
Because the diesel can't win on an even playing field thus why they get up to 100 cubic inches on the alky. They can compete even up on turbos, but that's not enough we need to handicap the alky so it has no chance of winning. This is the HSS fight from the 90s all over again. #sparkplugshurtfeelings

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 02:18AM
Quote
Pullinfan4255
Because the diesel can't win on an even playing field thus why they get up to 100 cubic inches on the alky. They can compete even up on turbos, but that's not enough we need to handicap the alky so it has no chance of winning. This is the HSS fight from the 90s all over again. #sparkplugshurtfeelings
Plugs dont hurt feelings, it's just a fact that with everything being equal , such as cubes, turbos, tires and such, an alcohol setup will always make way more power than an oil burner. Just a fact of life! Ain't no secret.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 03:10AM
Quote
Just sayin
Plugs dont hurt feelings, it's just a fact that with everything being equal , such as cubes, turbos, tires and such, an alcohol setup will always make way more power than an oil burner. Just a fact of life! Ain't no secret.

Last I checked 370 cubes to 470 cubes is not equal and I didn't even have to take my shoes off to count that one. Take the cubes or take the turbo and run 370.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 03:52AM
Quote
FingerCounter

Plugs dont hurt feelings, it's just a fact that with everything being equal , such as cubes, turbos, tires and such, an alcohol setup will always make way more power than an oil burner. Just a fact of life! Ain't no secret.

Last I checked 370 cubes to 470 cubes is not equal and I didn't even have to take my shoes off to count that one. Take the cubes or take the turbo and run 370.
Finger counter, .Maybe you should take some reading classes. Show me where in my post I said ANYTHING about 370 being equal to 470 or anything about the rules of the class. I was merely making a true statement about how alcohol engines make more power than diesels if cubes and turbos or even no turbos were equal. It's just a fact. I don't need any fingers or toes to co.e to that realization!

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 07:19AM
The entire post is about 470 cube diesel's getting a bigger charger. You were the one bringing up equality. They already aren't equal is all that I was pointing at.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 14, 2023 01:36AM
Quote
FingerCounter
The entire post is about 470 cube diesel's getting a bigger charger. You were the one bringing up equality. They already aren't equal is all that I was pointing at.

Finger Counter, what "Just Sayin" is actually saying is if ALL LLSS tractors ran at an equal cubic inch limit - 370, ran an equal turbo - 3.4SBx1, equal weight - 6,000lbs, and equal tires - 30.5x32, and also no intercoolers, the alcohols would win all day. He knows 370 and 470 are different, but if they all ran the same rules, diesel would have no chance.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 14, 2023 01:59AM
The two Fords in Ky that Gordon built will run with them with both alcohol and diesel running the same 3inch smooth bore charger at the same weight ( Nothing whatsoever against The Gordon Pulling Team at all, I'd ran the 3.4 also cause it's in the rules, it's legal, nothing wrong with that ) but to make it more equal and a driver's game, have the weight at 6000lbs and a 3inch smooth bore and set the tractor up for track conditions.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 14, 2023 11:21PM
Quote
!
The two Fords in Ky that Gordon built will run with them with both alcohol and diesel running the same 3inch smooth bore charger at the same weight ( Nothing whatsoever against The Gordon Pulling Team at all, I'd ran the 3.4 also cause it's in the rules, it's legal, nothing wrong with that ) but to make it more equal and a driver's game, have the weight at 6000lbs and a 3inch smooth bore and set the tractor up for track conditions.
! You are dreaming about a diesel being equal to an alcohol motor. The diesel will not hang with the alkys!! All being =

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 15, 2023 12:16AM
That's where the weight comes in as the equalizer-- diesels already get 100 cubic inches.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 15, 2023 07:09AM
So are you guys suggesting that diesels and alkys run the same cubes and the diesels get a 3.4 charger?

A lot of talk about diesels can't compete with alky if it is equal. In this class they are not equal. Diesels get 100 cubic inches. If you can't compete with that, switch fuels.

I never hear the 410 or 315 diesel complaining that they need a bigger charger.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 15, 2023 07:46AM
Same turbo Same weight -- diesels still get the 100 cubic inches and the 410 diesels get to keep intercooler.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 02:51AM
The reason for the 3.4" turbo was to try to pull the diesel back a little bit and to simplify the tech procedure. Seams like most of the issues with the map ring turbos comes from the checking of the map ring. There is no good way to check it, and most of the horsepower gains in the last few years have come from improved map ring angle and design. Dyno tests find that the 3.4" actually makes about the same power or a touch less than the current 3" map ring charger. This is the first step in the right direction. Might need some fine tuning down the road but have to see what the results are first. (Side Note) Only the small diesels get the coolers. the 315 twin and the 410 single.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 03:43AM
Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t the alcohol tractors limited to a 3” smooth bore turbo?

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 07:03AM
You are correct, the diesel gets 100 cubic inches and now get .400" bigger charger too, next they will be lobbying for weight as well.....stay tuned.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 11:25AM
Yes the heavier the class gets the harder it will be for both fuels to run together!

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 11:43AM
6,250 pounds leave all turbo rules as they are. I know its harder to police but it seems to work! And get rid of b.s. in certain clubs about hanging weigh on oliver and similar chassis. Rules are fine on a good track be a driver! Lower your hitch. 6,000 is to light. Second hitch wont work.But it sounds good. I dont need your input just my thoughts. I post my name cause your criticism doesn’t bother me!

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 09, 2023 07:55AM
Bob I agree with you live things along and let’s go pulling I get tired of all this every time you turn around if the guys that runs 6250 wants to run 6000 just play with the hitch that’s what we do and it works the turbo rule works fine it just depends on what track you’re on

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 10, 2023 01:35AM
Apparently you ain't had those 2 Blue tractors that come out of the same trailer put 40ft on you yet and they ain't even running them hard.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 11:27AM
This is some good stuff but I'm going to eat popcorn and watch. I am a changed man and I'm not going to get into all that i told you so stuff like i used to do. Not even going to bring it up. Thank you.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 11:52AM
Lewis, as one of the guys that started the class what weight and cubic inches do you think what would be best for the class.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 08, 2023 01:32PM
6000 3x4 turbo across the board let diesels have map 410 and under cut all that twin turbo stuff it just causes more trouble down the road THERES LOTS OF 410S winning WINNING pulls if the 470 guys would have done there home work a few years ago this wouldnt keep coming a little buddy system of not hurting someones feelings started it all and got it voted in .I apologize to any and all toes i step on NTPA didnt research nothing about the class when those rules were adopted ,WE have KTPA BOB and NTPA all withen 100 miles ,The fist one to go with AGG Tires and a box turbo would grow tremendously as Trump would say

Lewis out of Popcorn & Couldn't Stand It November 09, 2023 02:42AM
Out of Popcorn Lewis ? -- Kroger or the Dollar Store has plenty cause this is just gonna keep on keepn on, Stock up !!!

Re: Lewis out of Popcorn & Couldn't Stand It November 10, 2023 10:32AM
That Bob Evans guy the same one who makes Sausage if so they suck need more sage and hot pepper and its easy to tell hes not made a trail south or he has a diesel

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 10, 2023 11:09AM
i like the little motors with the twins and if i can ever get out of the poor house into a middle level that will be my choice of tractor.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS November 25, 2023 04:04AM
There are 5 combinations under the current rules. If you can't win using one combination, change to one of the other combinations that gives you a better chance. I'm not bitching about how competitive I am. If I can't win, it's my responsibility to change. Don't change the rules.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS December 03, 2023 02:27AM
What kind of tractor does Bob Evans pull? Where does he run at?

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS December 03, 2023 03:02AM
Orange,Alky,southern ohio

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS December 03, 2023 10:22AM
White.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS December 03, 2023 10:32AM
JJJ hey I sold the white! Pulling AC now

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS December 03, 2023 10:43AM
I stand corrected! I do not get out to pulls much north anymore.

Re: LLSS TURBO THOUGHTS December 08, 2023 03:19PM
What size turbos do these tractors?

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