03:41:35am, Wednesday, April 30, 2025
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Single or multi turbo
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George
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In the outlaw lss ag would people run one turbo or multi turbo if you had a choice and why,? |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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Team one
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With the advancement of turbos etc. I’d run a single just for the simplicity of it, there are a couple in the class that definitely hold their own against the multi chargers if you’re after simplicity and reliability that’s the way to go you probably won’t win every hook as multi chargers are making more power but you’ll likely be there more often and on certain tracks have an advantage. |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,660 |
I have said for awhile that diesel truck class should never have been allowed to run multi turbos, just different sizes for each class. If the tractor classes had followed the same format I believe pulling would be healthier. The sled is the real deciding factor in all classes, not HP. |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 713 |
I'll have to disagree. The multi charger trucks make so much that their small footprint tires can't deliver what they make. The result is something that generally lives quite healthily because there is no rpm pull-down loading them up with torque where diesels break and it makes for a very fun driver's class. I wouldn't change anything about SSDT.
CP |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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George
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What size are guys running,like 4.1 |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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Team one
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Yes I believe 4.1s have been used , not sure how big a 504 will spin however they don’t weigh much so that helps . |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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George
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In outlaws if u run single you can run up to 640 cubes is believe,multi would be 504 |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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Team one
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Yes you are correct, I was just checking the rules, that makes things easier for working with a single charger . |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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George
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Runniong a single def would be easier,not so complicated in my opinion,,less weight also. |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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Team one
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Super stocker , they offer a LSS class just like NTPA or PPL that allows components also , I think the idea is to offer a class that’s more affordable (not sure if it really is) and to keep tractors from sitting in the corner of the shed, the class was well established in the outlaws before components came along and they’ve tried to retain that , you may run your cast iron tractor in the component class but can’t run a component in the LSS Ag class as it’s meant to be cast only , the component class has the same rules and other organizations being 504 and multi charger alcohol or diesel. |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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Super Stocker
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I'm not really familiar with this class so I did some research. The rules are interesting. I like the idea of having different combinations so that a single turbo setup is competitive against your traditional alcohol 504 multiple turbo setup. Or so it is on paper. But i don't understand why components chassis wouldn't be allowed. PPL light super stock is really hurting on numbers, could adapting similar rules help increase numbers in the class? |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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George
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I believe they have a superstock class with components allowed also |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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Face in crowd
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Just a fan, but I've heard talk about guys running a 5.0 turbo single turbo if they are diesel in the ag class. I believe there are a few running 640 with a 5.0. They are underdogs in that class. There's a multi turbo alcohol and a multi turbo diesel tractor who are out in front most of the time. Then comes the 5.0 single diesels after that and the rest after that. Those 5.0 diesel LSS tractors are crowd favorites though and they make the multi-turbo tractors earn it. |
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My reasoning for all classes to have been single turbo classes.
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,660 |
When PS first started I'm sure that no one in leadership nor pullers would have been able to visualize the HP gains the class would see. PS HP numbers are now being reported in the 5000+ HP range, all this from a single turbo class. In fact its amazing that PS and DSS are almost the same HP with PS having significant numbers to have 2 national classes, while DSS struggles to have 6-8 in a class and at a 2 day event the numbers drop off to about 1/3 not coming back for the second session. What I don't understand is that leadership should have realized that there was never a need for multi chargers in any diesel truck class. The classes should have all been single turbo with turbo sizes being different for each class. What is the number of Semi's that are currently running multi chargers today? Very few and why, no need to add cost and reliability issues to your vehicle. Mike Larabee proved this very point years ago with his single charger Semi. I know that it's to late revisit old rules, however newer rules need to be well thought out before a class is started. As any pulling fan can see most, if not all the growth in pulling is single turbo classes. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: My reasoning for all classes to have been single turbo classes.
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 713 |
I don’t believe anyone possesses the ability to foresee the performance gains in any motorsport. Multi-charger was in on day Zero. The gap from Diesel Supers to Pro Stocks may be that close, they may not be. 140 extra cubic inches can do a lot. By itself, all out, that’s a 1500 hp drag engine if not more. It’s a legacy thing when the words “Super Stock” are used. Multi-charger is to be expected and at the GN level, I expect that boundary to be investigated and pushed. Well that they be allowed to. Further, limited chargers (or 1 only) means a duty cycle for it that is right to the limit. That scenario has lead us to tag, bag, bolt, armor plate them. Compounds can shift a duty cycle away from the ragged edge for the turbos. As far as the trucks go, I again point you to the tires. I’ve said what I believe to be true about SSDT. As far as Semis not really running multi-charger anymore the answer is simple. Horsepower gains found everywhere else means they can lay down more than the DOT tires they have to run permit. Wait until the new hard-tail rules come in. They’ll be able to plant even less. The tires are the key to it. If you can’t harness what you make, that is effective. Turbo rules really don’t. There’s a cause and effect disconnect. Concluding that 3000 sportsman racers are right because there are 3000 of them means that 40 nitro racers shouldn’t exist doesn’t make sense to me. If they want to do it, let ‘em. The crowd is going to go home talking about it.
CP |
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Re: My reasoning for all classes to have been single turbo classes.
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yep
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Dick, you and many others, Yep make them all single charger classes, then you complain that there was no leadership foresight and that there are too many classes and wow, they all look the same and pull the same distance.
Reading all the complaints over the years, Apparently all that is needed are 5 classes - 1 diesel & 1 alcohol in each a FWD truck and tractor (that's 4 classes) and 1 Semi class. That'll make a showing per event or per session (and repeat it in a multiple session class, just like the good ol' days). Ahh, well, let's have a little foresight for recreating pulling to became the new gotta go see sport, especially for the young new generation, let's get progressive here and include 1 noise class, you know with superchargers. Well, since the Minis are so popular and exciting, they get the nod. That way the big sleds do not have to contend with all the super unlimited multi engine power and extra wear & tear on a sled, thus life is easier for the sled operators. And life and expenses cheaper for the puller. And I'm sure Fan 2 will be the first to endorse this recreation of pulling - LOL!! |
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Re: My reasoning for all classes to have been single turbo classes.
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,660 |
Charles, thanks for response. I don't believe that I did a good job of presenting my point about multi chargers being needed in truck classes. You are right, no one could predict how far SS or PS would come in HP gains. However by the time SSDT and Semi's came along there was plenty of data that shows that single charger vehicles could make some amazing HP. Multi charger classes, be it truck or tractor just adds cost and maintenance issues with very little added show quality. There's a reason that the NFMS has 4 sessions of PS and has had to combine SS alcohol and diesel [ which has added a new level of excitement to the show ] and LSS is down to one session, not enough vehicles for separate classes. If you look results year after year there's no question that multi charger tractors are on the decline. If you look at results for the 2024 BG event you will see 14 OSS the first session and 12 the second session, and DSS had 17 for the first session and 9 for the second session, quite a drop off to say the least. And keep in mind that BG is the biggest pull in the world. And I don't completely understand your logic concerning tires in SSDT trucks. The sled is the deciding factor in show quality, with proper sled setting each and ever class goes 320'. My point is that it's to late to save multi charger classes, poor rules, older demographics, cost, reliability, high cost maintenance cost [ yes that's all of pulling ]. My problem is that OSS, DSS and LSS are some of my favorite classes, I guess that's why the demise of those classes is troubling for me. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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Badgerfan
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Everyone has there own opinion. If we had no multi charger classes I don't think I would be as big of a fan. Yeah the sled limits the distance they go and can make or break an event. No the sled is not the wow factor. Part of the wow factor from our sport is sound and RPM. Put a single charger against a multi charger and tell me the single is better. RPM is higher wheel speed is higher with the bigger tires. It doesn't matter the event if a OSS goes 320 right after a LLSS or Light pro goes 320 the OSS gets more of a reaction from the crowd then the smaller single charger.
I agree with CP in the trucks the major power makes it more of a drivers class not a whose got the biggest muscle. You can see the same thing in the supers. You have to be able to drive them or you'll burn off the tires. It is sad though the reliability of them, not being able to make multiple hooks. Getting rid of pull offs is what set that in motion. There's no reason to build and run them knowing you have to make more than one hook. |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,660 |
For me the LSS puts on a better show, the lighter weight makes them dance around a little more. And I do agree the sound is different on a multi charger tractor than a single charger. In my perfect world I would lower the weight of the PS to 9000 lbs or less. And you're right the sled is not the wow factor, however the sled can make or break the wow factor. If the sled is set and a OSS goes 310 and then a LSS goes 340 the wow factor is with the longer distance. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2025 03:35AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 713 |
Dropping weight off of classes generally is an idea I like very much. I'm with you on that one.
CP |
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Re: Single or multi turbo
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Registered: 12/23/2024 Posts: 4 |
If I had to choose, I’d probably go with a multi-turbo setup. The reason is pretty simple - more flexibility in terms of boosting efficiency across a broader RPM range. With a single turbo, you can get great top-end power, but the turbo lag can sometimes be a challenge, especially for quick response at lower RPMs. Multi-turbos, on the other hand, help to improve spool time and can offer more consistent performance throughout the rev range. |
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