Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 01, 2025 06:43AM
The third part of my NFMS observations was that this sport sorely lacks leadership. I realize that’s been my constant complaint for years. However with new new administration the country is seeing rapid and decisive actions. Whether you agree or not, one has to admit that the country has never seen anything like this. I’m hoping that under the leadership of the new WPI president, Ned Walliser and vice president Vaughn Bauer that changes will be made. The changes I’m talking about is the HP game, this destructive and ridiculous idea that more HP translates to a better show, more fans, more vehicles is crazy. The more HP just means another block in the sled and fewer and fewer vehicles years after year. Fans talk about the ‘’ good old days ‘’, the days when there was 20 DSS, 15 Mods and a good healthy class of LSS. Yes those days were 30 years ago, however with the awful rules we have we are lucky today to get 5 to 8 good running vehicles. I’m baffled why pullers and leadership can’t figure this out. I’m not sure the 650 alcohol and the DSS can be saved, the clock is ticking and the time is running down with those 2 classes. Granted they both can be saved, however by taking HP away from either or both now of those 2 classes means that a single turbo class [ PS ] has way more HP. And PS also needs to have a good look taken also. Sure there’s a good number now, however down the road this hunger for more and more HP will result in more breakage and less vehicles. The PS will have the same story as DSS and OSS, not good. The 5.0 PS will become more and more the promoters first choice. In my perfect world I would have every class that's over 2500HP be reduced by 20%, the show would look the same and reliability would improve.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2025 07:32AM by Dick Morgan.
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Re: Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 01, 2025 11:42AM
Just thinking out load for a bit but why is the Open Super class dying? I thought the reason they were so reliable and popular was because of the low boost pressures, so why isn't there more tractors in that class? I would assume because not very many farmers or fans relate to alcohol fueled vehicles. More people can relate to diesel fueled vehicles and that's why there will be a following for them. How long will it be before the big money competitors in the Prostock class that are now mid pack get tired of not going home with a check and step up to Superstock diesel? If you have watched any amount of pulling this 2024 season or this winter you will see where some of the high dollar Prostock tractors or teams are slipping back a bit and might change their program. No inside info, just an observation. Smiling
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Re: Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 01, 2025 01:00PM
I can't see any PS puller going to DSS. They'll go 5.0 first.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 02, 2025 01:34PM
The rules are not the real issue but the constant technology improvements combined with pullers very willing to invest vast $$$$ sums into their hobby, regardless of ROI.
I do agree HP vs. Reliability is the resulting seen issue on the pulling track today.

And look at what Bauer's new tractor is. I would expect that Bauer will not be in favor of reducing the SS HP race. Which has been the real issue with SS since the beginning. Shramek when he was the SS division committee chairman tried to get the class pullers to cap the class HP race, all to no consensus from the SS competitors. WPI board basically went along with it but in a few short years, they did limit SSD to 540 max cubes.

The Hypermax aftermarket block has been a real cause for the vastly higher HP. Of course, the red guys initially sold the idea they needed the block to have reliability. We knew that was false. And the past decade or so has proven it such. Class extinction keeps getting closer. Regardless of the SSD list that Yaron posted a few days. It would be interesting to know really how many SSD's there were back in the class heyday of the '70's and '80's - a lot! And despite the vast number, it was a much more competitive class than today's SSD's. Simply because of sheer number of tractors and especially a much higher degree of reliability.

I very highly doubt any sanctioning body leadership will advocate a pulling vehicle performance detuning program. Unless the insurance carrier forces them to do such.
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Re: Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 02, 2025 02:27PM
I don't see the pro stock class slowing down any time soon. For every puller that drops out, switches classes exc., there will be a new one from chaos to replace it. It's unfortunate for the ones with a budget in that class, but let's face it, a majority in that class have no budget nor really cares what it costs. Alot don't even work on their own tractor. Teams have 2, 3, 4, 5 different pulling vehicles. So at the end of the day, they will pay whatever it costs to play.
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Re: Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 03, 2025 02:14AM
Could it be that leadership doesn't want to fix it? as long as the sponsorship checks keep coming in, everything is good, right? these big fuel and air guys have figured out that the rules can be bought with a big enough sponsor check.
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Re: Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 03, 2025 05:40AM
One question I have on the pro stock class and leadership overall in regards to handling that class.

I realize that what is being said here is we need to protect the class so that it remains successful now and well into the future. But currently wouldn't we all say that class is pretty durable? It seems like the class rarely has issues competing in two day hooks and staying together. The engine blocks, and turbo's seems to hold up really well. It seems when there are issues its smaller things. I do agree the class is incredibly expensive but does anyone seem to care?

Even the guys who aren't known for having money to throw around seem to be upgrading their equipment. Tim Cain and Jason Miller are highly competitive for example and neither own 5-6 vehicles or are the high rollers in the class. Sure there are plenty of people in the class throwing money around but the guys on a budget so to speak are still giving them hell.

I agree lets do what we can to save the class and not let it turn into the DSS class. But going to 5.0 turbos with no intercooler isn't the answer in my opinion.
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Re: Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 03, 2025 05:53AM
I couldn't agree more, the PS class appears to have sufficient numbers now. I want leadership to sets rules that keep it healthy. Backing down on turbo size will in no way change what the fans are seeing from the stands. Unfortunately there are a few pullers in the class that cost is no problem, however there are some that don't have the resources to keep playing the HP game. Without sensible rules it will become the DSS class which is now a 2 tier class.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 03, 2025 06:16AM
Quote
Dick Morgan
I couldn't agree more, the PS class appears to have sufficient numbers now. I want leadership to sets rules that keep it healthy. Backing down on turbo size will in no way change what the fans are seeing from the stands. Unfortunately there are a few pullers in the class that cost is no problem, however there are some that don't have the resources to keep playing the HP game. Without sensible rules it will become the DSS class which is now a 2 tier class.

Playing devil's advocate for this topic, if DSS pullers could go back 20 years and vote on limits for their class, would most vote in a limit knowing what we know now?

Forcing everyone to back down to a 5.0 limit in PS would be unpopular. Some pullers would go exclusively PPL. A decade forward, if those same pullers are still in the sport, a number would likely want a limit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2025 06:16AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 03, 2025 08:34AM
I don't believe that I ever said pullers need to move into the 5.0 PS class. I think over time the 5.0 class will grow from big PS moving and 4.1 class also moving into the class. I have other thoughts about the PS that I will post later.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 03, 2025 09:06AM
Quote
Dick Morgan
I don't believe that I ever said pullers need to move into the 5.0 PS class. I think over time the 5.0 class will grow from big PS moving and 4.1 class also moving into the class. I have other thoughts about the PS that I will post later.

Dick, I know you didn't say that. I was applying the DSS situation to the PS class, ie if the DSS guys could have known then what we know now regarding #s and reliability, would they have imposed limits.

That being said, when you noted "Backing down on turbo size will in no way change what the fans are seeing from the stands. Unfortunately there are a few pullers in the class that cost is no problem, however there are some that don't have the resources to keep playing the HP game. Without sensible rules it will become the DSS class which is now a 2 tier class"

Backing down on turbo size would be basically the 5.0 class which as you've said before, the sled would go just as fast with a different setting and the fans would see the same groundspeed;, and "without sensible rules" does imply there are sensible rules that could be enacted, which logically could include turbos among other things.
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Re: Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 03, 2025 06:46AM
I think a big problem is to many classes
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Re: Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 03, 2025 09:34AM
That’s a big CORRECT! The major problem is most hooded tractor classes appear the same (other than diesel/alky). To average Joe fan, they couldn’t tell the difference between Hot Farm, Pro Stock, and 4.1 - they all have the general appearance. Tire size, sure, but be honest with yourself, the true gear heads and pullers know the difference and they aren’t who’s buying the tickets to the show.
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Re: Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 03, 2025 10:56AM
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Just Sayin’
That’s a big CORRECT! The major problem is most hooded tractor classes appear the same (other than diesel/alky). To average Joe fan, they couldn’t tell the difference between Hot Farm, Pro Stock, and 4.1 - they all have the general appearance. Tire size, sure, but be honest with yourself, the true gear heads and pullers know the difference and they aren’t who’s buying the tickets to the show.

Put 30's on the PS class.
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Re: Some observations from the NFMS; Part 3 March 03, 2025 12:30PM
Are the turbo sizes the same for ntpa and ppl
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