09:40:28pm, Friday, May 17, 2024
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Outlaw Limited Pro
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Chris Meints
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Was just curious what everyone thought of the big block deere being eliminated from this class in the Outlaws? I feel it isn't right, but I guess I have a big block deere, so my opinion is bias. How bout everyone else what do you think? |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Chris Meints
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and please keep it clean an no bashing, just opinions |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 762 |
In a class that requires an OEM head & has a charger limit I don't see where the BB has any advantage. What about the Moline? They have a big bore too. What about V-8's? They do have more valves. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Registered: 09/02/2008 Posts: 182 |
What was the reasoning for eliminating the BB deere, cubic inch or head flow or what? If you meet the class rules, cubic inch, pump size, turbo size, weight, then somebody crys louder than you do. I know you passed the cubic inch protest so thats low to change things in mid year to make the others happy. I'm a red fan, but if I can't out pull you I better get to work on mine, rather cry foul. Steve. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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greentea
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The big block deere has no advantage in this class. If anything maybe a disadvantage because how heavy they are they cannot move weight around like the red and green smal block tractors can.They need to let the rules stay the same. Well maybe change the tire rule so you could run the new puller tires. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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opinion
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I feel as long as it is within the cubic inch limits it should be allowed,the pratice of outlaws or any other group changing the rules because a person working within the rules are winning than they are singled out and ruled out is nothing but chicken and a cry baby group of whiners.Once the rules are written leave them alone and go to work on your own tractor or customers tractor's. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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jd fan
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That is a crock that they changed the rules on you in essentially a brand new class just because you ran good. Obviously Chris you are not wanted in the outlaw association. I would have went and pulled with another association before building another tractor just to make them happy. It appears the Outlaws have some major issues with rules and who gets punished and who does not. You had to good of a tractor to change it just to make someone happy.Go elsewhere and continue to put on a good show. There is getting to be several 4.1 classes out there and several iassociation in Missouri that have them. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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jeff sapp
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Cris are they going to get rid of both bb ? If so I wouldnt spend the money to make it a pro,The reason I left Outlaws is ,IF you are still winning after the turbo rule then we well take away your head.
I do have to wonder what those guys will say. When they and there friends are all sitting around a table talking about how good they did at some tractor pull,and some old boy with a couple of beers says yep after you got a couple of tractors with the same bore and stroke as you pitched you boys are real tough. Harvest is slow here so 1 more thought you reckon if there kids are not starting on the football field they tell them to work and try harder or find a way to get the kid that is starting kicked off the team? |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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So you are saying that a head with that much more area to work with and move ports and flow has no advantage? |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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lp opinion
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Why ban tractors after they are built? That doesn't build class numbers. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Anonymous User
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That sucks Chris but hey look at the bright side, You will have time to help me build my 4X4 pickup puller now. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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think
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in the midwest most people know of a red tractor that can outrun the red tractors in outlaw,but chooses not to hook with outlaws,this is all a set up to protect the chosen few. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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CHRIS, THIS IS GOPHER INVITING YOU TO PULL WITH ECMTPA NEXT YEAR. IF YOU WIN, WE WON'T CRY & KICK YOU OUT. WE'LL GO BACK HOME & TRY TO MAKE GOPHER BETTER.
JERRY & CONNIE MULLENIX |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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IF you know so much come to the meeting and see how man JD pullers vote against the BB |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Chris Meints
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Dead air areas are created by that and therefore doesn't make much difference not only in cfms but power. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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jeff sapp
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dear phones
Did you say move ports? I didnt know you could do that on a OEM head. This is a fact several thought he was cheating so a few guys put up some cash he wasnt, cash went to beer money Fact now you think he has an unfair adv, I will put up my cash put the bb head on a flow bench then get a good ih OEM head put on the same flow bench how much do you think they vary? Better get the group together again, I wont play your silly game for 500 One last thing the flow bench will be in IL |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Lets just ask Chris are the ports in your head in factory location |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Chris Meints
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Mr. Phones
1. Yes my ports are in the factory location 2. Why can't you post your name with your opinion, thats all |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Chris my name is not important I am not attacking you nor have I given any opinions just a question and people on here are quick to make personal attacks and get very deffensive for what ever reason that is why, hope that answers your question! |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Anonymous User
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chris put your little arrow on PHONES and it will give you the email address |
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Shackelfords
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Why don't you do some homework on your tractors and realize that you don't have an unfair advantage any more like you did with MSTPA |
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Re: Shackelfords
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What unfair advantage would that be? |
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thats the trouble
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Jeff Sapp
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Thats the problem with hiding behind the jukebox and throwing beer bottles,there is alwayes somebody stands up and points you out! |
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Re: thats the trouble
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What beer bottles would that be Jeff Sapp |
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Re: thats the trouble
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jeff sapp
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Just a old saying nothing personal im sorry if you took it that way. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Anonymous User
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Oh man the fluffers put the better head on Chris's tractor!
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Registered: 09/02/2008 Posts: 182 |
Just a thought here, if you would have had roberts machine out of carthage build your engine i'll bet they would still be allowed in the lps class. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Anonymous User
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That's bashing did you read thread two? |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 781 |
What is the rules and what is wrong with the BB jd |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Chris Meints
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The rules havn't been officially changed until november after the meeting, but they want to make a rule that eliminates any big block deere from pulling in the outlaw limited prostock class for 2010 |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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red man
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I am a red man but i think this is chicken sh&& of the outlaws,come on outlaws quit whineing and take your come uppins |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Wow chris you sure have a way of making pople mad in the outlaw group! maybe you should go back to a cummins!! |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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juan
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Its a shame a person spends all that money to put a tractor together, probably doesn't even make half the pulls and they want t get rid of them.Whats up with that? Leave the rules alone and go pulling. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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maybe crazy
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This may sound crazy but you would think the Outlaws would have enough on there plate in the super farm class,Why would you kick out a tractor that you took apart and found legal |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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619 isn't a twd block ?
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Isn't that the fact that a 619 block never was a legimate engine replacement . I say let them use a 4.875 bore limit and then any bb can compete in the LIMITED ps class.
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Chris Meints
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Thats the thing, I built my tractor last winter and because I knew that the 619 didn't actually come in the 6030 I went the extra mile and put the 531 block in and have the same bore and stroke as every other guy in the class (Not BSing ya, they actually tore me down to check in the middle of the season) and now they think there is an advantage to the BB. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 762 |
then limit everyone to .125 over stock. binder max bore 4.425 & SBJD 4.6875 |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Chris Meints
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Then everyone in the class would have to change their engines, and the big block would have the biggest bore, and that wouldn't be fair. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 781 |
Afew years ago maybe more(like ten)everyone said why would you build a BB so and so tried never could get one of them to run, first thing you have to do is take the intercooler of, restricts to much air. Now years later they want to outlaw intercoolers and big blocks, guess if it isnt a 466 IH or Deere dont run it |
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phones
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Jeff Sapp
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One more serious ? What is the plan if say John Burton brings his 1206 to 4.1 (going to happen) and he wins by 25 feet.I not bashing any tractor or group of tractors so please be respectful but this could happen and wouldnt everyone look bad then! |
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Re: phones
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Jiimbo
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is he doing that just to run closer to home or to play devils advocate |
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Re: phones
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Jeff Sapp
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Have to ask him but I think he wants to stay home more |
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Re: phones
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Red man turned green
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I was told that the green tractors coming out of the same shop that John John's did would run just as good as the red one's. What do you think? |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Here is the thing. Chris's tractor is legal, so if ya want to wine like a little girl and say he has an advantage over everyone because of the big block ur wrong, its the same cubic inch. same charger same as everyone else. He has been beat before and it just he has a very good set up for that class. Maybe you all should go back to the shop and do some more work on your guys tractors and quit wining like little 12 yr old girls. Grow up, its a competition, you will not win everytime, THATS THE WAY IT WORKS. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Red man turned green
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Mr Bohaboj, So are you telling us that a big block head will not flow more cfm's than a small block head? Maybe that's why nascar dosen't allow big blocks to run with them! |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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That not even the same thing, we are talking about tractor pulling not nascar. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Red man turned green
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Mr Bohabo, Yes it is the same thing a big block head will flow more than a small block head dosen't mater if it's nascar or tractor pulling or can you not tell the difference in length and width. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Chris Meints
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Im not an engineer, but once again, horsepower is not made by cfms, dead air does you no good. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 762 |
Red man turned green you obvoiusly know nothing about airflow in a performance engine nor what builders are currently doing with OEM heads. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Red man turned green
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Mr deere puller, how much is their to know except that you can get more cfms out of a big block head than a small block stands to reason more surface area to do something with. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Chris Meints
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Just because it could have more area doesn't mean that makes it would flow better, its how the air gets there.....Ill put my head against any other head on 5 different flow benches and we will see the cfm difference, there is no advantage especially when the bore is the same exact size as the red one and small block green ones |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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INDY CAR
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If we are going car racing in the indy car you cant run to small CI either to much hp out of smaller motors thats a fact |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 762 |
If you do a similar amout of work to a BBJD head & a 55 series SBJD head & put both on a 4.875" bore, no probably not.
First, the difference between a SBJD & BBJD head is nowhere near the same as the diff between a SB Chevy & BB Chevy head. Second the current NASCAR SB heads are probably closer in design to the 1965 BB heads than the 1955 SB heads. Third the CID in NACASR was lowered to slow them down, not protect the SB engines. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Objective Observer
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Almost ever color of head will outflow an AC head, so lets outlaw every color except the AC. If Chris' motor would have come out of Dougies shop there would be no problem. It's real clear, if you win in an Outlaw class they will either neuter, or get rid of you, unless you are one of Dougies puppets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good job Chris. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Very well put, by the last three post. Ya cant tell me that chris cant be beat, He has been beatin by The mean farmer and chris has beat the mean farmer. And i Know for a fact some of the tractors in the class are going to come out even better next yr. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Registered: 09/02/2008 Posts: 182 |
Well if they say a bb deere has an advantage in the limited pro class, and their going to ban them. Then they just as well ban them from every outlaw class because the performance advantage is still there. But they won't do that till some whines and crys about. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Chris out pulled me!!!!! |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Keith Bohaboj
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What chris ur not an engineer, well how are you doing so well, O thats right, you have good set up. LOL |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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puller 101
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Can i get your rules for limited pro |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Chris Meints
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4.1 Holset from Excel Engineering or Diesel Performance
640 cu. in +-1% P-pump 13mm plungers Oem Head Aftermarket manifolds allowed 24.5's (HPs Not allowed) and the chasis is the same rules as superfarm |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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jup
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Chris Meints Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > 4.1 Holset from Excel Engineering or Diesel > Performance > 640 cu. in +-1% > P-pump 13mm plungers > Oem Head > Aftermarket manifolds allowed > 24.5's (HPs Not allowed) > and the chasis is the same rules as superfarm What is the intelligence behind the no HP tires rule. Please don't say to keep the class economical, because everyone knows you can't legislate economy into a class with this horsepower. 
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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the turbo and the tire rules are to keep the east central missouri tractors out, they run the NTPA rules. thats why OUTLAWS will never be a national organization. |
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Re: Keep Others OUT
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Our Little Group
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Doug has to keep other pullers OUT so pullers in his little group can win. But remember, IF YOU WIN, you are OUT. It's no fun pulling when new tractors show, shucks, they might WIN!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Re: Keep Others OUT
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Derek
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I can tell you for a God's honest fact that there was not a tractor built in the Roberts shop until the No Green No Glory tractor came out at the last two pulls. So maybe you should get your facts straight before you go bashing someone. Noone that pulled the whole season had anything to do with Doug so I don't think that has anything to do with it. |
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Re: Keep Others OUT
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holycow
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What about the grand river deere too, pretty sure doug had his hands in that one along with barn buddy. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Yep
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Yep, Every year East Central would go with Illinois or NTPA rules instead of Outlaw rules in the super farm class and then at Jeff City they were down to 4 super farm tractors this year. Outlaws averages about 30 tractors tractors per event up north and about 15 down south. Same thing will happen in limited pro class. Outlaws has about a dozen after 2 years and maybe 15 next year. East Central will fight over cheating turbos, fuel etc. and class will fall apart or members will go pull elsewhere. |
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Re: phones
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Anonymous User
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While reading these post. I have come up with the answer.quit b%$ching about chris tractor get off the computer go out to your shop and make your tractor run.then maybe you will finally win. seems like the answer should be just that.He works at his and you don't want to what a shame! |
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Re: phones
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hey jeff
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I think a 4.1 will limit the hp! I hear that the black case runs good. I wonder if they have sent him an email yet, telling him he can't pull with them unless he lifts? |
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Re: phones
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Seth Shackelford
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Jeff I have been asked by my brothers to stay out of this as this is not my class feel free to call me no need to have hard feelings .Seth Shackelford (660) 909-1263 |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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joemamma
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The outlaw superfarm class would be nothing with out the Nebraska Bush Pullers |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Chief Wiggum
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Very true Mr. Chuck Lawrence. And i was wondering the same thing Jeff appears Seth isn't so opinionated any more. This post is kind of like watching Not Another Teen Movie it is so stupid it's funny. keep it going |
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Re: replacement block
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seen it coming!!!
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You are almost correct, the 619 block did not come out of the factory in a 2wd tractor. Although if you go to deere you will find out that the 619 is the replacement for the 531. they use the same crankshaft,they just have a larger bore. Just like 99.9% of the IH's that are on the track didn't come out with 466's and the small block deeres didn't come out with the blocks that they are pulling with. The tractor that is in question DOES have a 531 engine that does have the 4.875 bore. It is a crime in outlaw country when a tractor comes out and wins a few pulls. Automatically the elite group of outlaw limited pro's accuse him of cheating. I watched Wisner on the outdoor channel and my opinion is that the 6030 was balanced much much better than everyone elses that day.
I would love for someone to explain to me how a larger bore center creates more horse power when everyone is useing the same bore,oem heads,same fuel,same water,same turbo,same tire,same pump,same cubic inch. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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fan of lps
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not tring to start anything but my opinion is nothing against you chris but let him pull the bb ,hell never know could of been beginers luck or maybe chris is just a better driver. I say stop crying give it another year to see what happens if things dnt change yes find a rule that everyone agrees on(oh wait that already happened) chris you have my vote LET'EM RUN BOYS!!!! and stop the crying if i remember correctly same deal happened with the barn buddy lss after he went 411ft didnt tear his tractor down but the point is everyone want s to win and they are not happy when they get bet plan and simple not very many ppl well admit to that either.. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Pllfn
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The idea of outlawing ANYTHING in the limited pro class is so foolish that it should not even be considered. The Outlaws just STARTED this class! The numbers are nowhere near where they need to be yet. To talk about changing rules already just shows selfishness on the part of whoever is pushing for this. And it is also shortsighted. You've got to put the needs of the organization first. But that requires seeing the big picture and looking at it from a different perspective (other than what's easier for ME). This class needs numbers. It could be a great class. I suppose the hard feelings, one way or the other, will keep somebody from pulling Outlaws next year. If that happens, then everybody loses.
The rules for this class were just written. With the internet and information age of today, tractor pullers from across the country saw those rules as they were passed. There wasn't a loud outcry then that the rules were somehow favoring the big block Deere. And no one seems to think it does now. Except for a couple sore losers who want to be big fish in an even smaller pond. |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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Registered: 05/05/2008 Posts: 124 |
so what did the outlaws do to make a place for the BB deeres? you mean they just made a rule to exempt them and said have a nice day? |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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toolman
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there must be a bunch of crybabies in the outlaw group or school girls, little ones about 5 to 10 years old everytime you view this board to find out what has been happening you can always count on outlaws crying over something . i think the last one was about the bad apple that was a new tractor and kicked everyones butt now this one. if you want to compete put the money in it or stay home and cry on your porch. or better yet run farm stock right out of the field then you can complain that red built a more powerful tractor then deere and it just ain't fair |
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Re: Outlaw Limited Pro
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this is all true if you are not in the outlaws click they want to make a rule or change a hitch rule to keep you from pulling with them because they dont want to be beat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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