03:26:21am, Saturday, May 18, 2024
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Re: is just another red and green
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wishing
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I was just wondering if your club was just another red and green show or do you promote other colors in your club.
OR do you change the rules to only accomadate red and green like the other clubs around?????????????? |
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Re: is just another red and green
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What other organizations are you talking about wishing? Seems to me that 466 cubes catches most brands, unless you think you should be able to run a motor that is over 466 because it isn't red or green. |
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Re: is just another red and green
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Rules
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466 cubes 10ml A pump, Stock 3lm charger, 3,000 RPM We have all colors. |
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Re: is just another red and green
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Anonymous User
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Why dont you, other color, guys get out there and pull.. we need a little mixture in the group. If your tractor came from the factory with more cubes than 466 for that model you can pull it but you may not alter the transmission or rearend...Dont have to have a pto or hydrolics...need a wide front, none altered 20.8 38 tires and some safty stuff, air shut off ect....I was just on the web site, didnt pick up any virus? |
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Re: is just another red and green
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Registered: 09/09/2009 Posts: 140 |
i am new to pulling, last year was my first year. my dad and i talked to alot of the guys in the association swapped ideas, bs'd, so on and so forth. we have done some reading and some talkin in the "awesome" winter months we're having. and we've found alot of stuff on the safety side that i think should be addressed and worried about way before cubic inch should be. like utilizing steel flywheels, scatter blankets and cages. i know the rules meeting has already happened, but maybe everyone should think about these things this year. this is just my opinion not sayin im right or wrong...but we decided to put a steel flywheel in our tractor. especially after i was asked, what would you do if your cast iron clutch exploded and seriously injured someone or worse? but seriously we as an association should think about this stuff, during the year. im not saying cubic inch isn't an issue, but it shouldn't take over the issue of safety.
Nathan Bottjen |
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Re: is just another red and green
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Anonymous User
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thats why its a 3000 rpm class....flywheels wont fly apart 300-500 rpm over stock |
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Re: is just another red and green
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Wake Up
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Rpm isn't the ONLY thing that makes flywheels come apart. While these tractors are only turning 3000 rpm, they are producing double, if not triple, the factory rated hp and torque. I'm with Nate on this one. |
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Re: is just another red and green
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Anonymous User
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I disagree....metal fails with rpm and speed....when the clutch is locked up the power and torque transfer the the transmision..In my opinion that wont affect a cast flywheel as much as rpm..The proof is this 3000 rpm class has been going for years...no flywheel problems yet...the safty issues at our pulls is keeping the crowd back from the track, need more gaurd rails |
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Re: is just another red and green
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Rules
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If we wanted to spend that much in safety stuff it would be a open RPM 466 class with a 3x3 charger. The unknown Binder should probably shut his yap after his go around sending out his stupid letter that showed up at the rules meeting. |
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Re: is just another red and green
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Registered: 04/09/2008 Posts: 56 |
we had a guy was showing his tractor to a prospective buyer in his shop started it and goosed it a couple of times and it blew apart sent pieces thru his shop and his coat luckily no one was hurt it was a 3000 rpm tractor
i was at p hill back in the early seventies when a mod blew apart and seeing what can happen really opened my eyes |
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Re: is just another red and green
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Pllnfn
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Fan at a brush pull somewhere around Kentucky (maybe) was killed when a fly wheel blew apart on a tractor (might have been a 3000 or hot farm). This thing does happen. Why wait until it happens in your group? |
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Re: is just another red and green
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I wonder if you can convince the guy the was hit in the head and killed in KY a few yrs back? Wonder if he woulda liked to see every 3000rpm tractor with a steel flywheel? HEAT is what explodes a cast flywheel as in excessive slipping of an inadequate clutch so what you should have said "I haven't had a problem YET!" |
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Re: is just another red and green
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Wake Up
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I know of at least 3 tractors that have scattered running 3000 or less including a big block deere that scattered running stock....answer that one genius. |
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Re: Safety you want to talk about safety!!!!!!!!!
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Tired of it!!!!!!!!
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You want to talk about safety, maybe all this tractors trying to get down to 6700 and 7500 lbs should be addressed. Pretty much all this allowing alluminum pop can siderails and any Joe blow with a welder fabricated front end should be addressed. Allowing all that crap damaged Northeast Nebraska, and its killing Great Plains. |
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Re: Safety you want to talk about safety!!!!!!!!!
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dont care
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well I just as well build a super farm...why have a super farm tractor that can only run 300 rpms |
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Front End
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JD
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You find me a unsafe front end and point it out at the banquet in a couple weeks. You don't need aluminium frame rails to get a IH to 7500 either. Never herd a complaint at the rules meeting so my guess is that you don't even have a tractor in the class. |
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Re Not fair sd puller
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wishing
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Thats to bad sdpuller that you said no alterations to rear end because I'll bet there are a lot of ih and jd tractors that have changed there's.
What really su#ks is the fact that as long as it's ok for the red and green show you can change whatever you want to win but don't let any of the other colors change theirs to compete in your world Maybe your group should stand back from an outside position and look at your rules put yourself in an oliver or some other brand and see how to compete following your rules I think maybe thats why I like the NTPA "any sheet metal any engine" |
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Re: Re Not fair sd puller
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Anonymous User
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first of all wishing, I didnt make the rules...and for your info I have two molines that will pull in this group so dont asume we "red and green" people dont understand..secondly I am curious what would your rule for cubic inches would be? maybe we could change them...I have no problem with different colors out there...I had a darn good time out there with my moline, and third...if the cube rule gets high enough for a 504 case or a 585 moline to run openly, you will have one heck of a time running down a 540 IH or a big block deere...you can kiss the farm part of "open farm" good buy..just my .02 |
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Re: Safety you want to talk about safety!!!!!!!!!
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3688pullerbro
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WELL SAID - We need more heavy guys - we had the most fun pulling 12500 and 13500 |
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Re: is just another red and green
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wishing
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I tryed to get on the website didn't work, If I have a massy with a V8 in it I can pull with your 3000 group or a 90 series case??? |
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Re: is just another red and green
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Registered: 07/20/2008 Posts: 727 |
We use to have a massey from Ashton Iowa. It was an 1150 I think. |
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Re: why isn't still there
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wishing
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Did it get to put in different parts to compete or did it just have to stay home because no engine over 466 was allowed
I do realize that you red and green guys don't understand this concept but not everyone likes red and green. I know of alot of pullers that hung it up because they didn't fit the red and green rules "466". The funny thing is it cost someone pulling an off brand 2 to 3 times more to get the same horsepower you are running for a mere call to Hyper or to some other red or green outlet mall for pulling parts.So I say again put yourself on the outside and see what you can do to help off brands if you want them in your club Did a 3688 have a 466 in from the factory |
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read this and tell me now it doesn't matter
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Registered: 09/09/2009 Posts: 140 |
here's a little something i found on google and red power:
At a local fair pull this past weekend, I saw cast flywheel explosion - had to be one of the top 5 scariest things I"ve ever seen live in my life. I know I"ve heard it said that this could happen, but until I saw it live and in person, I never imagined how much force is involved with it! In the 8,500 pound pace class, the driver of a Case 930 was pouring it on at the end of the pull when the flywheel exploded and literally sawed the tractor in half at the bell housing. Thankfully, the tractor was equipped with a scatter blanket or there would have been a massive blood bath, but there were still several pieces that escaped as the tractor partially collapsed on itself and the blanket pulled apart. I"d say 90% of what escaped went to the left side of the tractor. About half of the pressure plate ended up in or near a goat pen in a barn about 100 feet from the tractor, and another piece of roughly 4-6" diameter cast apparently from the bell housing ended up on a fair road probably 200-250 feet away from the tractor. Several springs from the pressure plate and other small pieces of cast went away from the tractor as well, and I heard that one lady went to get a few stitches in her arm. My uncle, who was standing at least 50" away from the tractor, was hit in the side by the largest piece to escape - a 12 pound piece of bell housing that pealed out from the front of the blanket and probably never got higher than 6" off the ground on a b-line... and I"m sure it was slowed down partially by the blanket as the blanket was completely covering it before the explosion. The piece hit him, and then bounced back 10-15" towards the tractor. He goes probably around 350 pounds, and he went down like a deer that had just been shot (I was the next puller and he and my dad had just gone down to watch). To make this part short, I left with him in an ambulance, and everything ended up checking out okay - he"s just going to be sore for a while. Luckily the round of the inside of the bell housing is exactly how it hit him and distributed the blow over a larger area - had it hit any other way it would have done much more damage. The doc said had he been a 150 pounder, he probably would have had a lot of internal damage. For those of you that run over stock RPM"s (and maybe even if you don"t) - here are a couple of notes that we"re going to consider on everything we pull: 1. The scatter blanket literally saved several lives in this situation and many serious surgeries, etc. - no doubt in my mind. Not only the lives of the spectators, but also of the driver. It was the only thing holding the tractor from totally collapsing on itself - if it had, the driver would have been crushed by the steering wheel and seat coming together (when they pulled it off the track, it eventually did collapse totally on itself). The $350 it costs that seemed so overpriced last week seems like a bargain this week. 2. A tie bar from the engine to the transmission would make the scatter blanket more effective so that the tractor doesn"t collapse on itself and pull out from under the blanket (would also help save driver in event of collapse). I know this is in rules for stuff “bigger” than antique, but wouldn’t hurt for us either. 3. Side shields need to be built for more than just decoration - they need to be able to stop stuff from leaving the engine compartment. (the piece that hit my uncle blew the back of the side shield off like it was a piece of aluminum foil), 4. A steel flywheel when running over stock RPM"s is necessary. I wouldn"t have believed it until this happened, but the part of the flywheel under the ring gear(steel) did not explode - it was intact. Everything that was steel was either intact, dented, or torn, but nothing steel shattered. I know locally that this event is already serving as a huge wake-up call, and will direct the way that rules and enforcement will take place in the future. Unfortunately, there will be a lot of fingers pointed at the kid who owned the tractor this happened to, and he"ll end up the poster boy for pulling safety and "the kid who wrecked if for the rest of us" as I"ve already heard mentioned. The fact of the matter is that there are dozens of tractors running around locally with more power and less protective equipment than the one that blew. He’s an anxious young puller who wanted to get onto the scene with something competitive. He did so, but he was also handed a time bomb when he bought the tractor and it happened to go off on him. He was in the process of getting a steel flywheel, and things didn"t come together for him in time so he put it together to go to the biggest local pull around. If we were honest with ourselves, most of us have cut a corner or two to make it to a pull, and I’m not sure we’d have done anything differently (you know – it’s made it down the track 500 times before, it will surely make it another 3 or 4 times…..). I know from now on, it will be a lot harder to cut those corners in light of this happening. I have been pullin since i was 14. Now have a hot farm 1066. Went thru a lot of modifications along the way. Beefed up gears and shafts came about along with a steel flywheel early on. In 2003 i was about 100 feet away from a 190 ALLIS that the flywheel came apart in about 10 feet off the line in a hot farm class. Let me tell you i dont want to see that again. It blew about 2 feet of the trans housing in a million pieces. Of course it broke in half. A bystander was hit in the head by a chunk of the flywheel,also had a piece the size of a golf ball imbedded in his chest.He was dead before he hit the ground. Ironically he was a neighbor of the tractors driver. was there to cheer him on. They found pieces of the clutch and flywheel over 3000 ft away. Also was a girl in the crowd with a mean cut on her leg. And i had been standing were that guy was the class before, scary huh? Better think i came off the line a little easier for a while, makes you think. I have it on video and watch it from time to time. Get cold chills everytime. Do not run cast its not worth a life. |
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Re: read this and tell me now it doesn't matter
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Anonymous User
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You guys were at the rules meeting..didnt metion anything about steel flywheels?...I agree we need to be safe out there and if they want us to run steel flywheels I'll be one of the first in line..you guys have a steel flywheel? |
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Re: read this and tell me now it doesn't matter
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Registered: 09/09/2009 Posts: 140 |
yes we do, and a scatter blanket now...i know we were at the rules meeting, in my first post i said "i know the rules meeting is over". i just want people to think about it for next year. |
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Re: read this and tell me now it doesn't matter
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Anonymous User
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dont forget the deadman throttle and the cross bars in the exhaust pipe...plenty out there running with no deadman throttle |
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quick question
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Posts: 590 |
Would you frown at a guys 3000 RPM tractor from out-of-state, if it didn't have a deadmans throttle? Reason I ask, is because mine won't have one, because I can't physically run one. |
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Re: quick question
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Anonymous User
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as of now our rules state that a deadman throttle is recommended but not mandatory...so I would say you could run it....Most relocate the throttle lever elsewhere with a cable and a return spring |
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Re: quick question
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Posts: 590 |
Yeah, they're recommended here in NE Nebraska, too, but I won't ever be able to take on that 'recommendation'. I can only run the stock throttle lever on the 1206. Kinda a long story. |
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Re: quick question
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Anonymous User
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you should be able to run up here...we like to see new tractors..the safty rules can be changed at any time if there is a safty issue ..our rules are on the website under "open farm rules" [www.greatplainstractorpullers.org] I think there is rules commitee contact #'s under "genral rules"..all nice people if you have any questions |
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Re: read this and tell me now it doesn't matter
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Anonymous User
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I think the tractors are getting more powerfull all the time..faster...more load..more heat..I would like to see blankets and tiebars on all the open farm tractors..I didn't hear any talk about any new rules or ideas at the meeting...just idle chit chat...I was somewhat disapointed...Maybe next time... |
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Re: 3688 with a 504
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to bad for you
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Tell me 3688 if you have your engine down to overhaul it why, wich I really doubt it, would you put a factory sleeve in and leave it a 436 when all you have to do is put in a 466 sleeve and make it a 504 ??? you already have the 5 inch crank. Kind of an interesting thought, but don't let any other tractors with a bigger cubes come play in your sandbox!!!!!!!! |
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Re: 3688 with a 504
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thumper
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I have pulled with this group for several years now. At first it seem like some were hard to get to know and others were not. They put on a great show, have a number of tractors and everything seems to run pretty smooth.
By the way the boys running the 3688.....they are topnotch people. |
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Re: 3688 with a 504
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JD
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All the sleeves are the same in a IH. You should do some research before you open your mouth. All they do is change the stroke to go from 414 to 436 and to 466. |
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Re: 3688 with a 504
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3688pullerbro
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Too bad for you that you dont know what you are talking about. The bore is the SAME for a 414, 436, and 466. These 400 series engines all run the same sleeves the only differences are in the crankshaft and pistons. |
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Re: 3688 with a 504
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Don't understand
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If they all run the same sleeve and piston how is the 466 considered a factory replacement for a 66 series int when you have to change something as major as a crank |
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Re: 3688 with a 504
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JD
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You don't have to change the crank. Just stroke the 414 crank if you wan't to keep the same crank. Will be a lot cheaper to buy a 466 one and just put that in it. Don't have to be factory replacement for this class anyway. just 466 cubes unless factory equiped. |
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Re:Wow I guess I should apologize
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Registered: 07/20/2008 Posts: 727 |
Wow, I guess I need to apologize. I didn't realize I was at fault for all that was wrong and unholy with the Great Plains Tractor Pullers. I didn't realize it was my sandbox I thought it was the Great Plains Pullers sandbox. I also didn't realize my earlier post of "We used to have an 1150 massey it was from Ashton I think" would trigger all this hostility wow I am sorry. I'm pretty sure Adam told me he didn't have the time or money to be competitive with his massey, ok fine his choice. As for being able to call Hypermax or another outlet mall for parts, again I apologize that there are places out there for stuff like that. I can't help it a majority of the tractors out there are red and green, opps don't want to let to much of the cat out of the bag, you know on the secret alliance that John Deere and International Harvester have in order to keep all other colors out. You know its kind of funny getting accused of making rules to keep other tractors out, when I can't vote at rules meetings. See it's one vote per tractor so I pay thirty dollars membership, until this year have not missed a pull for 5 years straight, and I get 1/3 of a vote, and most of the time my dad, my brother and I disagree on how to vote, but somebody who went to two pulls in 2008 and only hooked at one of them got to vote as often and as much as he wanted at the 2009 meeting. Do I hate that yes, but thats the way its set up so ok fine thats the way it is. On a different note I'm about as mechanical as changing a light bulb so I don't understand what you want to do to your rearend and transmission that the rules allow me to do but not you? Plus were you at the rules meetings or do you attend the rules meetings, cause if you don't yeah its kind of like you shouldn't complain about the president if you didn't vote for him(although in Barack Obama's case I would make an exception). As for the post from "Wishing" if you like the new NTPA rule go pull with them instead. Like SDPuller said we tried to make the cubic inch rule to cover a lot of brands, and then we added the "you can run bigger cubes if it came from the factory that way. I guess we looked at it would be easier to buy or build a tractor to fit the class then make the class fit the tractor, because pretty soon where do you stop. Well my 2+2 came from the factory with 4 20.8X38 tires and its way longer than what the rule is that "no weights may extend 11 feet forward from the rear axle" so you guys are a bunch of jackass's because you won't let me pull it in the open farm class, yeah I know probably bad example. I would welcome more colors, we have a New Holland, an Allis Chalmers, and plenty of Case and Allis tractors will jump in from time to time from West Central Iowa, and Northeast Nebraska. If we had more colors I feel we would have bigger crowds. Well anyways I've bored you keyboard pullers to death so I will sign off. I also wanted to say thanks to JD, and Sdpuller just nice to know there are some people out there who know what they are talking about. Oh one more thing just and earlybird reminder for the "Pulling for A Cure Tractor Pull" in Rock Valley on June 4 hope to see truckloads of stock, open farm, and super farm tractors there. |
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Re: Re:Wow I guess I should apologize
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Anonymous User
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I could'nt agree with you more 3688puller.and NO you souldnt have to apologize for anything..on a lighter note... Looking forward to the tractor pull season..This long cold winter has to be over soon right?...Probably see ya at the baquet on the 6th |
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Re: Re:Wow I guess I should apologize
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wishing
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What is open farm? |
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Re: Re:Wow I guess I should apologize
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Anonymous User
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the 3000 rpm class |
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Re: Re:Wow I guess I should apologize
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wishing
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Well let me see if I can explain it a little. Some tractors are to heavy to use so it is alot easier to change a rearend than to start over , but leave that issue out of it are you using a complete 3688 or are you 66 series made over. You take into consideration my 1655 oliver perfect rearend ,junk engine to get the better engine have to go to the bigger tractor wich is to heavy in the rear but because of the rules I can't pull with you because I can't alter engine to rearend, other option go to the 2-150 or something on that order then that is out of my price range. It just amaizes me how the rules and classes are set up with no insight or consideration to the off brands Ford,Oliver ,Massey,White,Allis,Case,Duetz all do not have a 466 |
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Re: Re:Wow I guess I should apologize
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Anonymous User
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Once again...what kind of cubic inch rule would you like to see? |
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Re: Re:Wow I guess I should apologize
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wishing
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I'm not saying your cubic inch rule is wrong. I'm saying not all tractors are as easy to build as a red or green and if you want color it can't be defined by what you can get for a red or green. |
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Re: Re:Wow I guess I should apologize
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Anonymous User
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I see your point but how are you going to regulate the class when the there are hundreds of performace parts and upgrades for the IH and JD tractors...the cubic inch rules appears to be for IH a JD only, it is..its not the pulling groups fault that the IH and JD tractors are the popular choice..If you dont regulate the popular tractors you"ll have an unsafe mess...You can buy a in frame overhaul for an IH to make a 466 to a 527(somone correct me if I,m wrong), no machine work... just a fat check book...you have to have a rule that dont let that happen...or the class will be expensive and alot of safty issues will have to be adressed..I would like to know what rule would fit the "other color tractor" but still apply to the popular ones already out there |
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Re: Re:Wow I guess I should apologize
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Anonymous User
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bickering, politics and personal agenda.... the death of any association and the sport. and also the reason myself and several others aren't members. |
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Re: Re:Wow I guess I should apologize
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case nut
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Just run restricter plates and let each one run what ever they want.Limitting the air intake is the only factor that can be measured and enforced. |
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Re: Re:Wow I guess I should apologize
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Registered: 09/09/2009 Posts: 140 |
sdpuller, what could be done is maybe a sealing of pans before the season. lets say a guy wants to run a case with a 504, or a 1468 with the v-8 which i believe is 505, or a 2255 oliver with that v-8....you could make them run 2800 rpms..and that would go for any IH or JD out there that is over 466. would that be a rule that could work potentially? |
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Re: Re:Wow I guess I should apologize
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JD
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Nothing wrong with it the way it is now if you ask me. If you think someone is over on cubes just protest it and then you will know. |
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Re: Re:Wow I guess I should apologize
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Registered: 09/09/2009 Posts: 140 |
i meant it would work for every tractor including IH and JD. don't have to protest, i could tell by the sound if someone is over 466, just like alot of other probably can. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2010 11:17AM by the unknown binder. |
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Re: It works
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Case owner
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I pull with WCIP and the 2800 RPM seems to work as far as keeping the Cases in the hunt along with the out of the box 3LM |
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Re: It works
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Anonymous User
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Unknownbinder..I know its hard but take a look at your rpms on the track while pulling...good chance your IH is only turning 2800 also... I,m not standing beside a G1000 moline that somone stuck a 585 ci engine in and have it turning 1000 RPMs higher than stock..especialy with our safty rules...that rule works for the case maybe...2800 is even 600-700 rpms higher than stock for a 504 case (correct me if I,m wrong).No wonder people have flywheel problems..Honestly I would pull against a 504 case anyday but when someone shows up with a big cube IH or JD, because of a no cube rule, the game just got harder and more expensive |
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Re: It works
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Registered: 09/09/2009 Posts: 140 |
sdpuller, you have a point, right around 2800, 2900rpm. so how do we get it so all brands could pull? i wouldn't wanna stand beside any tractor including mine from last year with our rules. don't some IH and Deeres run 600 rpm over stock? Rogue Puller made a post further up and made a good point. just thinkin out loud here, but are these tractors we all take to the track, pulling tractors or planting tractors? |
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Re: It works
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Anonymous User
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some of you are making this way too complicated. the out of the box 3lm466 is the limiting factor for what is underneath it for an engine, assuming that all you honest individuals are running an out of the box turbo. sure you can spend thousands on an engine to squeeze out a few more hp, but that turbo put the limit to max power. so why is everyone so worried about the cubes? long before this associatiuon was formed in this area the "open farm" class was the class for the guys who wanted to bring the farm tractor to these towns after they turned up the pumps and maybe put a 3lm on it. It was basically the class to go and have fun without unfairly competeing against the stock tractors. the 3000 rpm rule was brought about for safety precautions, entirely so that these guys could safely pull with a stock flywheel. the 3000 rpm limit kept everyone from having to put steel flywheels in a tractor that would go home after the pull and probably get put back to work on the farm. it limited the expense so the guys could to go to town, pull, and still have a useable tractor. nobody ever said you had to run 3000 rpm, it was the max!!!! the cubic inch rule is simple and clear- no more than 466 cubes unless factory equiped. engine must be original or a factory replacement. what is so hard to understand about this rule??? this class was created for the guy on a budget who wanted to go to town and have fun and not have a useless tractor the other 364 days out of the year. some of you are forgetting that simple concept and will kill the sport if you keep it up. if you wanna keep bending the rules for what this class was intended as maybe you should simply move up to superfarm and get it over with. and on another note, your stock class rules are completely out of touch with reality too, but thats a whole new topic. when was the last time any of you thought about how many of these local towns have stopped having tractor pulls since this association was formed? or when was the last time you thought about how few local tractors show up in each hometown. its not because they dont want to, its because of the few people in this assocciation want things all their way and have no idea what the basic sport of tractor pulling is all about. but then what do i know, i'm not even a member of this association. wonder why that could be? |
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Re: It works
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Anonymous User
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unknownbinder, I think there are factory IH 400 sieries tracors with factory rpms at 2800..the 1486 for instance.. I agree with colorblind..you made some good points..the problem is the rules have been this way for to long...eveyones pushing the rules to the max and the rules are not specific enough for alot of stuff..I dont think there is tractor out there that has the facory cubes in it for that tractor in this class..the case 504 would be, out the IH 466 would be out,the allis 466 ( I think they have a 466) would be out, the ford genisis engine would be out...these setups came in tractors that are either to heavy or with powershift trans. that cannot take that kind of power....I think its to late now..there all somthing different than factory cubes..with maybe a few exceptions..and the factory replacement thing is kinda a grey line also....all these bigger engines could be a factory replacment, they all bolt right in....also to enforce a factory cubic inch rule would be another problem. I would bet if the rules changed they would come up with another class that they could run in, call it unlimited farm or somthing, as of now its the biggest class in the show so its here to stay... I do agree that the class is designed to keep the cost down and to have fun, and I think is is getting somewhat out of hand the turbo rule has to stay.it is whats holding us back |
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WAKE UP!
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Anonymous User
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if your open farm class is going to survive it must stay with the rules basically how they always were. dont get me wrong it would be fun to go to a bigger charger, more cubes, cut tires, water injection, etc. but doesnt that sound expensive and a lot like why the superfarm class was invented in the first place??? c'mon people wake up and look at the big picture. this is a class for people who wanna have fun but dont wanna spend an entire years wages to be competitive. yes, most of you have reached the max point of the rules so now you wanna change the rules so you think you can spend more money and win every pull. guess what now its time to hike up your skirt and move to superfarm if you wanna spend more money. dont take out your bad judgement on the guys who aspire to pull in this class someday. and on another note, 400 series dont factory replace 407's. 7.6L deeres dont factory replace 404's. genesis motors dont factory replace ford motors. not a single one of these is a bolt in replacement. but this association has been ignorant and looked the other way for so long that everybody has passed that point of keeping it simple and inexpensive. rules, rules, rules. theyre all just dandy when they fit your personal agenda. and when they dont a few whiners act like theyre reinventing the class. if you cant play fair and appreciate the roots of this class its time for you to be pulling somewhere else. this class has already gotten too far outta hand. for all you guys worried about every body elses cubic inches, why dont you just protest em and find out. you better be ready for them to return the favor tho! if you dont have the balls to protest em, then quit whining about it. if somebody is dumb enuf to build a big cube motor for this class maybe they deserve to be protested and kicked out. wont be money very well spent will it?? if you're scared to death of your flywheel coming apart put a new flywheel in it. put a blanket on it. slow it down. use some common sense on your own and quit makin a stink about it. theres a reason this is a 3000 rpm class! when are you people going to appreciate the class for the reasons it was created and quit worryin about how to bend the rules??? quit worryin about sealing the oil pans and all that bs. what a joke that is. if you got a complaint with one protest it and find out. you guys wont be so anxious to sneak a big cube in it knowing that it might get checked by someone at anytime will ya. quit whinin and bending rules and go have fun. the rules were figured out long before any of you were involved. |
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Re: WAKE UP!
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Anonymous User
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who wants to sneak in a big cube engine? thats the point if you change the rules from 466 max..you'll have trouble..the 466 max rule needs to stay and the tractors pulling in the class now are all under 466 cu...we had a very close and competative year last year..and most had fun..nobody wants to change the cubic inch rules exect the case, MF people |
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Re: WAKE UP!
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Registered: 09/09/2009 Posts: 140 |
colorblind: guys are figuring out how to get more power out of these motors. i see you have a tractor for sale. why don't you build it and come pull with us. all i suggested in the beginning is guys just toss around putting either a steel flywheel, or put a scatter blanket and ladder bars on the tractor. its cheap, and you won't injure someone or yourself for that matter. look at some other association safety rules around here. just about everyone requires either steel flywheel, or something covering the bellhousing. at least sdpuller and other guys on here have an open mind about progressing and making it a safer show for everyone. and maybe somehow figuring out ways for other colors to come in and pull with us. you just want to bitch and cut everyone's ideas into pieces. if you decide to cut me apart put your name at the end of your post so everyone knows who u are. just in case you didn't get mine, it Nathan Bottjen from Kingsley, IA. |
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Re: WAKE UP!
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WHY
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I agree with you colorblind if those engines are not replacement for those tractors why put them in BECAUSE THEY PULL BETTER so why can't the Case put in the better engine to pull with , leaving out the fact of the cubes. To build a 451 is very expensive to get it to pull good and then you run the risk of breaking the crank at any time, so why not let in the 504 with 200 less rpm in and give them a try. If they start to dominate kick them out |
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Re: WAKE UP!
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Anonymous User
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you know I personaly would be OK with a case 504 in the class..I would like to run against one once . The rules are up for changing next year (there locked in for couple years) get some fellow pullers to agree with ya and get the rule changed. |
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Re: It works
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Anonymous User
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more and more want to see pulling tractors and less and less want to see planting tractors...thats just a fact of the sport... the antique pulls around here do great, they have there crowd and we have ours |
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Re: It works
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Registered: 07/19/2008 Posts: 145 |
I personally attended the meeting about 3 years ago and wanted to put a 504 in a 930 case for the exact reasons of it is getting extremely hard to get 451's and yes extremely expensive to get them to run and yes the cranks will break anytime very easily but was told NO yet it was and still is ok for some people in your group to put a 466 in an IH 806 and also to put a 466 in a IH 560. Those should not qualify at all! Not even close! Bad enough with a 466 in a IH 1066 or a 466 in a JD 4430/4020/etc. The Great Plains group is either a Red/Green show or be from Sioux County, IA , or be in the good 'ole boys club or else you won't fit so I have went elsewhere to pull until it changes. There is no open-mindness up there. One guy brought up the fact that he shoud get a 500+ engine out of a Gleaner allowed in his D21 to which I said "Go ahead" and brought the rest of the group out yelling NOOOOOOOOOO!!! Like I said, red/green group, sioux county, IA, or Good 'ole boys club, or Go home. That is too bad! |
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Re: Case from Ocheyedan?????????
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Registered: 07/20/2008 Posts: 727 |
That 930 case from Ocheyedan that pulls with us, I think his name is Brad Loertis(I apologize for which I am pretty sure I spelled the last name wrong) anybody know what cubic inch he runs? |
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relax
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pulln4fun
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Some one in this post previously said if it has a 3lm 466 on it out of the box that will be the limiting factor. This statement seems to be kind of correct. The reason I say kind of is we have ran against 619 5020 and 6030 tractors that were well built and beat them. That being said I don't think that the cubic inch rule should be opened wide open. Just a reason to spend more money. However, let the case run a 504, let the deere and ih run 466 and a ford 474(i think). They will all be close. Just don't need to build a big cubic inch motor for the class. The open farm class in Great Plains is very competitive and fun to pull in. We have won a number of times with a 100% legal tractor so the protest is fine with me. Just don't be scared to let someone pull with us. |
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Re: To Everyone
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Anonymous User
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To Unknown binder.. you should think more before you shoot off your mouth. i have built a tractor that pulled in this class. and to my knowledge it was the first one and still maybe the only one with a scatter blanket, ladder bars, ect. i put them on out of my own common sense 3 years ago. so dont stand there and tell other people what they should do. most of us want to have fun and be safe. we put common sense into practice on our own.
To sdpuller... - the cubic inch rule used to be simple. no more than 466 cubes unless factory equiped. must be original or a factory replacement. this was supposed to keep things simple and inexpensive. but then this organization looked the other way and let guys put any engine in any tractor. now you have a mess and dont know how to get out of it. isn't it funny how a few people in this organization can bend the rules to fit their agenda. now it seems virtually impossible to enforce any cubic inch rule because this association didnt stick with the most clear and logical one to begin with. i'm not against bigger cube factory tractors such as a case that had a 504, thats why the rule said it was ok if it was factory equippped. in a way i hope this association keeps screwin up the simple rules. the way its going in a couple years i might just be able to put a locomotive engine in a 1066. bolts right in just like all you say these other half breed tractors do. To WHY... - the rules were meant to keep this class simple and inexpensive. it's not my fault its expensive to pull a 451 or whatever you were whining about. an ih 407 is the same way, i pulled those for years and did excellent but yes it took a little more money. if the 451 is prone to breaking a crankshaft buy a steel one. dont try to blow smoke up my a$$ that it would be cheaper to put a 504 in a tractor it doesnt belong in than it would be to buy a steel crank. you're not fooling me with your excuses. i dont have a problem with you pulling with a 504 at 3000 rpm. but it better be in a tractor that it belongs in. To racehorse... - i agree with how you feel. i do not agree with letting you put a 504 in a tractor that it doesnt bolt into. i know it seems unfair. but the guys that put 466s in 806's, 7.6Ls in 4020's ect i dont agree with either. the association did a lousy job of enforcing rules and these guys had their own agenda and did what they wanted with total disregard to the rules and sportsmanship. this is why i am no longer a member. and why this association is losing pulls and pullers every year. i ask you to join me and be patient. this group will self impode in a matter of time. theyve already gone down that road on no return by letting these guys get away with what they did. To pulln4fun... - this class is about stayin legal. at least it used to be. be ready to be protested by some untrusting fellow puller. and its about havin fun on a budget while stayin safe. doesnt seem that complicated does it. watch out for those guys who think the rules need to change. they want em changed for their benefit, not the sports. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2010 08:11AM by Jake Morgan. |
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Re: colorblind
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Registered: 09/09/2009 Posts: 140 |
thanks colorblind. you just backed up my points on staying safe. thats all i wanted was to get people thinking. |
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Re: colorblind
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JD
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Hey Mr. Steen. Where in the rules does it say it has to be a factory replacement block? It is a 466 class unless factory equiped with more. You think all the other associations that are 466 are a joke also? We don't care if you pull with us or not if you are going to have a bad attitude about it. |
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Re: To Everyone
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Anonymous User
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colorblind. You take your factory cubic inch rule and try it today...Have fun with your 1256 with a 407 and roosi pump against a 4440 with a 466 and a inline...You want to see people leave the stands, this is how you do it...you think its a red green show now..It will be a green show with your rule... to the jd pullers, I didnt mean people will leave because of a deere is winninng , just meant that the same tractor will win all the time
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Re: To everyone
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Anonymous User
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unknownbinder- thank you. i was simply trying to make a point that most of us want to be safe. its a shame that some people cant take the same initiative and put some safety precautions into action on their own tractor without being told they have to do so.
jd & sdpuller- my point was that the rules used to say it had to be original or a factory replacement block. that kept this class fair, budget minded and not so expensive to get into. you made my point for me, thank you- youve already screwed up this class so much that a new puller with a 1256 couldnt even compete in this class. the rules were the way they were so this didnt happen. has reality hit you upside the head yet? i have no problem with somebody pullin a 4440. trust me theyre not unbeatable. (oops, did i burst your bubble?) my problem comes from when a few people in this organization disregarded the whole foundation of this class. now you're puttin 7.6s in those 4440's and 466's in 806's (just examples, not singling out anyone). i have no problem with a 466 limit. that number was brought about to keep the red, green and, orange tractors from building big cube motors. and i have no problem with a case with a 504 running 3000rpm or a massey v8 runnin 3000 rpm. the more colors the better. but dont you need to step back just once and look at where this class is headed. if you keep lettin the motor swaps go on its going to be a snowball effect. pretty soon no one will be able to get into this class and compete on a budget. this class has grown because it was attainble to the guys who have pulled stock and just wanted to make more power. if you're going to turn this into an "anything goes" class why not just move up to superfarm and leave this class the way it was meant to be so the new pullers have a place to have fun and be competitive. and dont start tellin me what the fans want. the crowds at these pulls were twice as big years ago as they are now. some of the local towns are so sick of this that they have recently quit having pulls or went back to doing them on their own. I have no interest in being a part of this association so dont try to make me feel quilty for standing back and looking at the big picture. its about time somebody looked out for the roots of tractor pulling. and not for their own agenda. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2010 02:45AM by colorblind. |
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Re: To everyone
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Posts: 590 |
FWIW, we have the ability to swap late-model 466 Deere's in 4010's & 4020's, and DT466's in 706's & 806's here in NE Nebraska as well. The plus side to our 3000 RPM class is we can all step up to a 10mm A pump. So, I'm gonna try something different & run a 10mm A pump on my 407 in my 1206. Curious to see how that works out. Be nice to see a few other groups take that on, allow an A pump across the board. Makes us 'die hard old-school' boys have a level playing field w/ our 407's 
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Re: To everyone
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JD
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Colorblind, I mean Kyle Steen. Are you trying to say it is cheaper to bore or stroke a 407 in a 856 out to 466 cubes rather that put a 466 in it? Or do the same to a 404 in a 4020? We all know who you are so you just as well put your name on the bottom of your post. You are saying you put a blanket and latter bars on just to pull in GPTP and that you haven't pulled one with North East Nebraska. I am not sure. I am just asking. This is now a 466 class as long as it is same make of motor as tractor. Unless factory equiped over 466 cubes. Ex. 1370 case with a 504 or a 5010 JD with a 531. |
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Re: To Jd
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Anonymous User
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jd- wow you are grasping to defend yourself. yes i have pulled in ne nebraska. some of us arent afraid to step out of your sheltered little organization and have fun pulling with other people. maybe at your banquet you should all put white bedsheets over your heads and declare your organization is supreme over anyone elses. c'mon wake up. i built my tractor with the intentions to meet everybodys rules. i'm sorry if it bothers you that my tractor had more safety equipment than yours did, whover you are (dont care). i never said it was cheap to bore and stroke a 404 or 407. thats irrelevant. i've never had to do either. i have dozens of trophys that were won with 361s 407s 404s 414s and 436s. my point is that if this organization had paid attention there would still be guys comin in with these tractors. they cant afford to now. |
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Re: To Jd
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JD
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What I was getting at is that you said you put on a blanket and ladder bars at your own will. That is false you put it on to meet NE Nebraska rules. Pretty sure my steel flywheel is safer than your outdated blanket. Our orginization can't be that bad because you did come and pull with us last year. And yes I have pulled with NE Neb. before also. Our banquet will be a good turn out and everyone will get along just fine. The best thing about it is that you won't be there. |
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everyone
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Anonymous User
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JD.. i'm sorry you feel that way. it is that total disregard of fellow pullers that resonates throughout your discussion. its too bad it only takes a few people like that to bring down the entire group. my safety equipment was put on because i chose to. nobody put a gun to my head and made me do it. i chose to enjoy the liberties this great country allows for us and go enjoy pulling with other people who share the same interests. enjoy your banquet. i wont be heartbroken for not being invited. i will not continue to reply to such comments. oh, one more thing, what was your name? couldnt seem to find it cause you've hidden your identity.
TO EVERYONE.... thank you for the feedback while following this discussion. i appreciate everyones opinions and thoughts. i hope i have shed some light to the bigger picture of tractor pulling. everyone has the right to disagree. some people are so focused on their own personal agenda that they fail to see what is best for the sport. i have no personal agenda. i am no longer a puller in this organization for some of the forementioned reasons. i wish you all the very best and God bless the men and women who have fought for this county, that protected our right to enjoy this sport. My identity has never been hidden on these posts. i would be willing to talk with anyone who desires to be sensible. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2010 05:32AM by colorblind. |
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