06:26:11pm, Sunday, May 05, 2024
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Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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RedFarmer06
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Hey everyone,
I just thought that would take a minute to give my opinion regarding the incident in Wooster. When I read the first post I got a sick feeling in my stomach that this could happen after the incident down in Kentucky that resulted in fan's death. When are we going to learn? I write this not as a puller/former pull but as a parent. Let me say that about 18 years ago I pulled in the farm stock class with a tractor that was a one time a tractor dad used on the farm, which was a 966. When dad and I built the tractor we told ourselves that this is supposed to be fun. When I was at 19 I was pulling at a local fair when a water hose blew and I got sprayed pretty good by scalding liquid. I sustained third degree burns on my arms and chest. It was then that Mom and Dad talked and decided that we were done pulling. Dad never really foregave himself. I was not happy but they told me that they could fix anything mechanical on the tractor but that there was only one of me. That was the last time that I was behind the wheel at a tractor pull. Flash foreward 18 years. When my son turned 16 he talked me into pulling again in the farm stock class pulling a 1486 we had on the farm. We never turned any big horsepower with that tractor but had some fun winning a couple pulls and I might add turning stock rpms. Two years ago he again talked me into taking a 1206 in bad shape buying it and using it to pull so we could continue to use the 1486 on the farm. At first we were going to run hot stock around our area but after sharing my concerns and talking to my wife we decided to spend the extra money and pull hot farm instead with a local organization. I just thought to myself that if it were just me I would worry so much but this is my son and I decided that I would not put him in the same situation that I faced as a young man. We had to sit out part of the pulling season because we were waiting on some of the safety equipment to come in but that is a small price to pay in the long run. The number one thing that I hear farm stock pullers say around our area is that they don't want to mess with the safety stuff because of cost and aggrevation. Let me tell you that it is not that much extra cost when you consider the expense of putting a motor and fuel system together. How this guy didn't have a blanket and tie bars is beyond me. I hope that the family sat down and thanked the good lord that their son is okay and that is the most important thing. Sorry that this thing is soo long but I needed to vent and I hope that some of the farm stock pullers out there hear my words and take them to heart. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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3000 rpm puller with Great Plains
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i agree you should never concider cost before safety, safety always has to come first, in our organizaton the Great Plains Pullers, we pull in NW Iowa, Eastern South Dakota, and NE. Nebraska, we have 3000 rpm tractors running 550 to 700 hsp, running in Road Gear WITHOUT roll cages or even a Roll Bar or a seat belt, i know they can't have seat belts without roll cages, but sometime they really get to bouncing, it is a wonder no one has ever bounced out of the seat, to me this is insane and a big accident waiting to happen, i hope they wise up before it is to late and make seat belts and at least a roll bar manditory. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Registered: 02/26/2010 Posts: 55 |
Maybe roll cages could be used in 6700 and 7500 but nothing heavier than that needs a roll cage in Great Plains. I would also argue that there are no 3000rpm tractor putting out more than 600 hp. Tractors are probably pushing 550 but not 600. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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3000 rpm puller
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i agree they should start with roll bars in the 6700# and 7500# classes, the heavier classes probably are heavy enough, but 550 hsp and wieghing only 6700# and running road gear should have a roll bar and seat belt, safety first |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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So what you are saying 3688puller is that there is NO need for safety? |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Registered: 02/26/2010 Posts: 55 |
I didnt say that at all . When we built our tractor the first thing that we got was a steel flywheel. Im just saying there are some classes that dont need it- like the heavier classes. I dont pull the way light classes but i think they are the first ones that need cages |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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what a moron
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so 3688pullerbro are you a retard? dont you want roll bars on the heavier ones. so they really smash you as flat as a pancake. So you dont think farmers that put roll bars on are smart!! You probably say oh it wont happen to me, do you think the people that had accidents planned on it?
Look at what this thread is supposed to be about, not what you THINK how much power something has> |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Registered: 02/26/2010 Posts: 55 |
"WHAT A MORON" NO I AM NOT A RETARD, AND WITH A NAME LIKE YOU HAVE I THINK YOU SHOULD CHANGE IT EVEN THOUGH IT SUITS YOU. IM NOT SURE WHY EVERYBODY IS BASHING ME. IVE BEEN PULLING FOR ELEVEN YEARS AND NOT ONCE HAVE I NOT FELT SAFE ON MY TRACTOR. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT FARMERS WITH ROLL BARS EITHER. IM SIMPLY SAYING IN GREAT PLAINS I DO NOT THINK IT IS NECESSARY YET TO PUT CAGES ON 3000 RPM TRACTORS. IF I WAS PULLING WITH BADGER STATE GUYS WITH 1000 HP AS WAS MENTIONED I PROBABLY WOULD. ONE THING TO NOTICE IS THAT THIS WAS A 4010. A SMALL FRAME TRACTOR - THAT IS WHY I THINK CAGES WOULD BE GOOD IN THE LIGHTER CLASSES IN GREAT PLAINS. AND FINALLY I KNOW D&@N WELL WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT I WAS SIMPLY SAYING THAT 3000 OPEN FARM TRACTORS IN THE GREAT PLAINS ORG. ARE NOT PUTTING OUT 700 HP.
DAN BLANKESPOOR GEORGE,IA |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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profarm 466
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3688 i hope you are only talking about 3000 rpm tractors in the great plains pullers. because i know for a fact that the badger state 3000 rpm tractors are making around 1000 hp. Their Profarm class is 10000 lbs and have all the safety equipment that the open rpm tractors have |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Posts: 590 |
Its all coming, guys. NE Nebraska is likely to mandate roll bars or cages on all 3000 RPM tractors, as well as the V8 stock & V8 modified classes. I know West Cental Iowa has already mandated bars or cages for the 2010 season.
I will have a roll bar on mine for this season, as well as an SFI steel flywheel, and a SFI 4.1 blanket. Saftey doesn't hurt. Period. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Registered: 09/09/2009 Posts: 140 |
RedFarmer06 and 3000 rpm puller with Great Plains, great points! THANK YOU! these are pulling tractors, NOT planting tractors! |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Whatever!!!!!!!!
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So how many of you 3000rpm tractors keep 3000rpms the entire way down the track. So as my tractor's rpms die the farther I get down the track and they become lower than what my 4630 runs on my field cultivator, should I have ladder bars, scatter blanket, wheelie bars, kill switch from the cultivator, (oh there is a cab so I don't have to worry about a roll cage) and put a steel flywheel in it. I don't think making steel flywheels, scatter blankets, and ladder bars mandatory is a bad idea. As for roll bars and roll cages I just feel its a little excessive at this point. Also I thought roll bars on farm tractors were to protect farmers from mowing in step hills or ditches, or maybe out in wheat country, not on flat surfaces. On a final note Yes I agree safety first, I am not making light of the situation we need to protect tractor pulling for everybody Lord knows we have enough problems with every corner, pitstop, and po dunk town having a National Show come in. You cant shoot a gun around here without hitting a town that has a Big Pull in it. I just think you people need to calm down, state your opinion, and leave it at that, name calling come on grow up. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Anonymous User
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yes all 3000 rpm tractors need a kill switch |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Registered: 01/17/2009 Posts: 207 |
You have the Right equipment Blackstack1206. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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i run a 3000 rpm tractor 466 cu in .................make 1300 hp.............NO JOKE |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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ditto
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im runnin a 3000 rpm tractor and easily run 6% over road gear, yes i know there is a huge jump between one set of 3000 rpm rules and others but anything can happen at any time. i know it sucks thinkin u need a steel fly wheel and safety equip for a farm tractor but i know after seeing that deere explode i will leave my farm tractors at home when it comes time for the home town pull. even if i didnt get hurt i would feel horrible if someone else did, plus there is no reason to go out and total a good tractor like that. |
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That was no farm tractor
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1456 Puller
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Some that were there said the 4010 was turning 4-5000 rpms so I wouldnt call it a farm tractor. I sometimes pull a 1456 IH in a 3000 rpm 10 mph class.It only makes a little over 200 horses and I only turn it 2600 rpms. It comes down the track about 8 mph which is 2 mph faster than it used to pull the farm equipment.
Theres alot of difference between it and a 3000 rpm hot farm tractor,Some of them make 600-800 horses in my area and they are required to have all the safety equipment.My all out state level puller has all the safety equipment. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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foundedgod
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u r clueless 1300HP 466 AND 3000 RPM NO WAYYYYYYYYYYYY IF SO POST YOUR # AND I'll call u to build my next motor. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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not impossible
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that is not completely un heard of i pull badger state. with the 3 by 3.7 charger and the intercooler and water injection it is possible. we are over 1000 hp and we are running 18% over road gear. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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foundedgod
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466 3000rpm turning 3by3.7 like to see in real life'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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il pro farm fan
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go to Illini State pullers web site and look at videos 11000 pro farm the 466 x press and sexy 66 are both running this setup and have increased hp since this photo. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Jacob Koch
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anytime that you would like to see feel free to come to any badger State or ISP pull that has the profarm and i would be more than happy to pull the hoods and show you what we are running. it is possible and we are keeping up with the 640 tractors. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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BIGSTUFF
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yes at 3500 to 4500 rpms |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Jacob Koch
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no we are limited to 3000 rpms and are monitored all the way down the track. feel free to check our rpms sitting in the pits or check them on the datalogger on the sled and they will be the same. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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BIGSTUFF
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3ooo rpm 1000 to1400hp and 466cubic spinnning 3by3.7 doesn't seem right to keep turbo spinning at low rpms limited pro 4.1 turbo 5000 to6000rpm 540cubic 1100to 1700hp seems right lots of rpms small cubic tokeep turbo spinning not on agood clay track? superfarm 3by3 3500 to5000 640cubic 1000 to1400 seems right small cubic needs rpms to spin big turbo big turbo needed to make 1400hp for small cubic motor big turbo 466 2700 to3000rpms no 1400hp |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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il pro farm fan
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just have to find the right guy to build the right charger you are more than welcome to come see the charger in question as well as the dyno sheets any time you want |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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here's the lowdown........ illini state we run 3x3.75 we run 3000 rpm monitored going down the track. we do not snuff em out. it is not itpa....run down to 290 and chirp it. we burn em down. our fast gear is 21 % over road. i do not know if we can run that on a clay track, but we run some sand so we will run it. NOBODY in our organization goes down and peters out. we have a good show... we are way ahead of superfarm as far as power and torque. i would NOT even think about getting on without a cage , these tractors can get out of shape before you even know it. oh intercooled also. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,151 |
The top of the 7700 lbs S-Division tractors dyno out at app. 1100 hp with 427 cui limit at 2700 rpm. Free choice of turbo & pump + intercooler, no water. Various models of HX60 turbos.
I teched that Deutz a while ago and it had a 68mm Turbo inlet. As you can see, it's chanceless. At 550 cui @ 2700 rpm they run HX 80s in that division: Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2010 06:16AM by Sascha. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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BIGSTUFF
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rpm or rps 2700 |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,151 |
2700 rpm limit Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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if you think i'm clueless.......do a little homework......... spend a little money...........you play to win or just show up............probably don't play at all.......1300 is easily attainable.........3x3.75 .......... triple feed injectors.......... intercooler........ i'm not gonna give my name here, but you give me yours and i'll send you the dyno sheets |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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WI Puller
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The only place where fun comes before safety is in the dictionary. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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opinion
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It is my humble opinion that anything other than a stock farm tractor must have safety equipment on it, side panels, kill swtiches, wheelie bars, steel fly wheels and clutch parts, and tie bars cables etc. By stock I mean lets hook to the disk or some other heavy object, open the throttle up all the way and work all afternoon with it. As much as even I do not like it, or think that many safety rules or proceedures are a pain, they are there for a reason. There was a thread on Eastern Extreme about pullers not being aloud to drive in the pits at a the Washington County Ag Center. They are only to be towed even the "farm stocks". This seems dumb at first, but tell the guy who was in a job johnnie that got plowed by a run away tractor in the pits at Fredrick Maryland a few years ago, that it is dumb. You never know when the guy at pump shop got in fight with his wife last night and had a crappy day at work becuase he got no sleep the night before. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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CPR
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Agree, the cowboy days are over, like it or not. Here in MI, if goes 10mph or faster on the track, it needs a cage. I have video around here somewhere of a guy getting bucked clean off a 3000rpm tractor that got squirrelly on the line. It through him to the left and as the tractor rotated that way, the drawbar held, pulling the tractor back down. As it was he was knocked out cold, could have been crushed. Had the tractor had a cage, he might have been a little rattled at worst.
CPR |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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The guy that says " I dont need all that safety stuff!!! Its JUST a 3000 rpm tractor.......... Besides it costs too much" They will be the ones to ruin it for eveyone .............. They will have the problem and hurt or kill someone else and then good luck getting insurance. Then NOBODY has anywhere to pull. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Mn. puller
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Everything you guys are talking about on here is the reason I joined the NTPA. Most of these clowns up here brush pulling HAVE NO SAFTEY EQUIPMENT!!! Some of these guys are turning way more than 3000rpm and they are not running any SFI clutch parts. We even had a rotary fuel pump stick wide open on a 1466 by the scale at Corcoran Mn. last year. This guys tractor has absolutely no saftey equipment on it.And he's not the only one. All these guys brush pulling don't like the idea of joining NTPA because it would cost to much to put all the saftey equipment on and then they would have to abide by one SET OF RULES. You idiot brush pullers from Minnesota just give it a little more time and sooner than later somthing bad is going to happen. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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yes man
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i have seen alot of tractor videos where 3000 rpm tractors get out of controll. even stock tractors have accidents. imagine that, altering a tractor to have more hp. and go faster needs safty equipment? wierd. it is terrible when accidents happen and some one gets hurt. we all need to have safty first! just my opinion |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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rumor teller
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I heard that after the accident in Wooster, that county made a ruling that all pulls in that county, the tractors MUST have steel flywheel. THAT is what it is coming to. All the promoters, especially their insurance companies, will be requiring the use of safety equipment, end of story. And don't doubt for one second that it won't be excessive. Next thing will be ALL tractors must have ROPS or a cage, and so on and so on. We all know how this works. Us pullers and our tractors (or trucks) are just one big liabilty, and if we can't prove to be safe, then the people and places that put on the pulls won't be able to get insurance, and we can all stand around and look at our tractors wondering how much they are worth in scrap. You will hear, "sorry guys, we just can't afford the insurance to put on a pull." I have a hot stock 4020 ready to go for this year, and after seeing the pics of that 4010, can't help but wonder if I shouldn't put a call in to Kenny's for an SFI clutch and flywheel. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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If you are pulling anything you need safty equip. This should be for eveerybody.KEEP ON PULLING |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Jared
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I agree. Everybody complains about safety rules like the roll cages, but without them probably wouldn't be a sport of tractor pulling. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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rewind
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so your saying my 4010 with the idle turned up pulling in 3rd gear needs a kill, wheelie bars, ROPS, side shields, scatter blanket, SFI cluctch, and a steel flywheel, just to pull 2 or 3 times a year? i dont think so |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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LUKE
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WELL THEN KEEP IT WHERE IT BELONGS REWIND ON THE FARM! |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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fixer
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Luke is 100% correct, leave that POS hooked to the manure spreader and save us all the hassle of reading about YOUR clutch cutting your tractor in half! |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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opinion
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Would you turn the idle up on that 4010 and hook the disc at full throttle all afternoon? Classes for farmers to unhook from the hay baler or disc are fine as long as that is what they are.......to often guys turn the idle up alittle bit, or give her a little more fuel......At that point it is no longer unhooked from the disc anymore. Most of you guys are some what inteligent, when things are modified it is time for safety equipment. I think that some of the most unsafe pulling vehicles are those in which "we just unhooked from the manure spreader this morning" and "turned up alittle for tonight". The parts and equipment on many of these vehicles are engineered for a specific range. While some parts seems to be able to exceed these ranges others do not. |
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Rumor Teller
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iaihpuller
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Rumor Teller, Please make the phone call to Kenny or a for sale ad. It is not worth it. My farm stock puller has had a steel flywheel since I started. I saw this same thing happen in Platteville, WI. Same outcome. Lets keep everybody pulling safety is #1. A guilletine is next and I pull 10 mph classes. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Registered: 01/19/2010 Posts: 136 |
We have heard alot of the same comments up this way that insurance is hard to get on the "brush pulls" we run a couple a year and i know that they ask alot more questions on what is there and where the crowd is now days. Good luck to all on up coming season and remember that it is your friends and family on the sidelines!!! |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Registered: 05/05/2008 Posts: 124 |
I would agree you should have at least ROPS and a seat belt on 3000 rpm tractors, and a air shut off, wheelie bars and a wide front end. These are all basically because you can some serious speed up on these tractors and so not all 3000 rpms tractors need even that. if you are going fast you need more, but a stock tractor limited to 3000 rpm and going 4 mph in a speed limit class hardly needs a lot of safety gear. Not much mention of the original thread question on steel flywheels though. I think the factory flywheel is OK so long as 3000 rpm's are the limit and it is enforced. The factory rated speed is not much less than that. There has to be some reasonable cut-off point for safety equipment. ALL tractors do not need EVERYTHING. As is anything a little common sense goes a long way. Track officials should use good judgement and pullers should have enough sense to know when they need more safety equipment. just my two cents worth. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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fixer
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It isn't only RPM's that make cast iron flywheels break, it is the overheating that they endure pulling, slipping the clutch to get the sled moving, etc.
ALL 3000 rpm (and above) tractors need steel flywheels, all SFI clutch components, tie bars, blankets, wheelie bars, and ROPS. That tractor had NONE of those I can see. Anything else is plain stupidity! |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Anonymous User
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lets not forget about factory radiator fans. I can't even imagine one of those flying off and going into the spectators. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
What the heck does horsepower have to do with anything pulling related. Tell that to the lady driving the antique last Labor Day in Ohio. Her small JD or AC went right over backwards. As luck would have it, Bob Curren's sled was built just right to stop the tractor from totally crushing her. It is not all about speed. Any tractor can tip over backwards, sideway or even frontways when front ends break off. Don't think it won't happen to you, 'cuz your number just might be up next. JW |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Anonymous User
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fixer,, you are right that 4010 had none of these,,, my dad yelled at a guy on the phone last week told him not to pull his tractor unless he put a steel flywheel in it,,told him that he was gonna kill someone and that he had better hoped he had good insurance. my daughter is 6 years old and we spend alot of time pulling,, she gave up a chance to show her horse at a show so she could go watch this tractor pulll,,, we sat down on the far end bleachers to eat her fries after spendiing 2 hours in the pits..glad we sat down where we did .out here she can't pull garden tracotrs until she is 9... i grew up pulling with my dad and we ran 4020 smoker class and then also a intertrashional,,,lol 1066 super stock,,,i can still remember my dad and all the safety things. hope that my daughter learns the great respect for the pulling also,,,she has one thing she wants to pull minnie mo,,,, hmmmmmm we are helping a friend build one division 5 ,, he has her brain washed on the minnie mo...lol...we all have to remember safety first,,, i know we are teaching her that now,,,,,hope it all pays off when she is pulling,,, |
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Re: to deeredaughter.....
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Anonymous User
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One of the good things about MMs is I don't know if you'd ever need a steel flywheel.....not with all that iron all around. I mean, honestly, you could put tracks on, a big gun on top, and send it into a war zone.......tell your daughter I'm behind her 100%.....unless she needs help lifting anything off........ |
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dont push cast
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wondering ?
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i wouldnt run your 4020 in hot farm with a cast flywheel-my 2 cents. when did deere start putting steel flywheels in i think our 4440 has a steel flywheel, right?correct me if i am wrong. |
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Re: dont push cast
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Anonymous User
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DEERE NEVER MADE A STEEL FLY WHEEL.. THEY ARE ALL CAST IRON,,, |
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Re: to deeredaughter.....
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Anonymous User
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THANKS MOLINE PULLER!!!! SHE IS READY TO PULLL,,,,,MY DAD DOESN'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK ABOUT HER AND HER MINNIES,,,,LOL,, A FRIEND OF MINE HAS HER THINKING MINNIIE MO OR NOTHING AT ALL,,, MY DAD KEEPS TELLING HER TO TELL HIM IF HE WANTS TO WIN HE HAS TO GO GREEN,,,,LOL...IF U HAVE ANY MINNIE PIC YOU WILL HAVE TO SEND ME SOME TO ADD TO HER COLLECTION,, THERE IS A GUY 6 MILES FROM US THAT HAS SO MANY MINNIIE PARTS THAT ITS CRAZY,,HE WILL NOT SELL A THING,,,,,IT AMAZIING WHAT HE HAS,,,I HAVE A LADY GOING TO MAKE HER A FEW MINNIE SHIRTS HER SIZE,,,LOL |
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Re: to deeredaughter.....
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JD
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deeredaughter, What is your dad's name? I know you mentioned he pulled some Deeres and an IH. |
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Re: to deeredaughter.....
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Anonymous User
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ED DRYSDALE,,, HE PULLED IN THE LATE 70'S AND 80'S HAD BUILT SO MANY GREEN ONES TOO FOR OTHER GUYS,,,, DO YOU REMEMBER THE MIGHTY MOUSE 1066???HE BUILT THAT AND MY SONS DAD RAN IT |
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Re: to deeredaughter.....
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JD
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I think I've heard the name Mighty Mouse before. I'll go to pulling-reference.com and look him up. What are some of the other Deeres he built ? |
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Re: to deeredaughter.....
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Registered: 10/17/2009 Posts: 84 |
Hey guys while were at we could bring back the old man sleds!!! lol just kidding, we all need to concentrate on safety before there isnt any place to pull anymore |
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Re: to deeredaughter.....
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Anonymous User
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BE NICE,,,,, LOL ITS THE OLD GUYS THAT HAVE BROUGHT PULLIN THIS FAR,,,,,JUST BE LOOKING FOR MY MINNIE,, GONNA RUN IT SOMETIME THIS YEAR,,, |
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Re: to deeredaughter.....
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Anonymous User
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If you need help with the minnies call the boys from Waupun, WI. The Hull family is definitely into the Minneapolis Molines and they know how to get them to run. BTW they can also window a block if you turn em hard enough. Just ask Lyle, John or Aaron. Im pretty sure they have all put a window in the block.
DPS |
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Re: to deeredaughter.....
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Anonymous User
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ROD DOCTOR,,,
THANKS FOR THE INFO,,, I WILL HAVE TO GET AHOLD OF THEM, I WANT THIS THING TO RUN,,, WHO CARES IF WE WIN OR NOT,, I WILL JUST HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS NOT GREEN OR RED,,,,,LOL,,,AND IT WILL MAKE MY DAUGHTER HAPPY,,,, |
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Re: to deeredaughter.....
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Hey prob knew your dad back in the mid 80's as I pulled a deere on the NTPA GN shoot me an email. And yes if you want a MM you need to talk to Lyle Hull he has been MM guy for as long as I have known him. |
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Re: old fart...
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Anonymous User
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hey send me a private message ,, i tried to send you one and it would not work,,, |
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Re: to deeredaughter.....
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from someone that is fairly new to pulling, only pulled two times! It is crazy to not have safety equipment! The hot farm in our area in northern wisconsin do not run a roll cage or any type of seat belt and they are running crazy rpm's and wheel speed. I have been waiting to drive one but I am also scared because I know how fast they can get away from you |
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Engineering question about this issue.
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Ok, I am not trying to belittle safety but I am trying to figure out what is an acceptable level for a 'brush' tractor. For example I realize the flywheel would have still blown but would it have been enough to protect the driver and the spectators if the Wooster tractor would have had a blanket and tie-bars? Or would it have been better to have a steel flywheel w/o a blanket and tie bars? Or would have only both prevented the accident. Garden tractor guys are turning huge rpms with just a steel flywheel although they don't have the potential to generate the heat that a big tractor would. Another example, what is the proper level for an 88 antique that can turn 4000 rpm in a pace class? Is a blanket enough for this level?
Yes, we all agree safety should be first but how is our safety budget best spent. I don't want to hear that there should be no budget on safety because there should be a minimum acceptable safety component level for the level you are pulling. And that level of required components can be determined with engineering facts tempered with experiences (good and bad) that have been gained over the years in all levels of pulling. |
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Re: Engineering question about this issue.
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Posts: 590 |
One way to look at it, depending on what you are building, a performance part can also be a safety item. An SFI clutch is such an item. If you are already exceeding the HP that your stock clutch will handle, and are wanting to go heavier or to a double disc, go w/ the SFI steel one right away. Its not THAT much more than a non-SFI double disc clutch. Is a $500 price difference gonna pay the hospital bills incurred by someone who was hurt by an exploded cast flywheel? That won't even pay for the band-aid in the emergency room! |
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Re: Engineering question about this issue.
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old fart
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Having been involved drag racing and tractor pulling since the late 60's I have seen more clutch explosions than I can count. First of all rpms is what makes the bomb go off, heat is the fuse that starts the problem. I have seen several stock farm tractors blow up flywheels mainly because some one thought they could resurface the flywheel one more time and it had heat checks that you could put your finger nail in. Any pulling tractor that is running above the stock governed RPM shouldn't have any cast parts in the clutch assembly! Just as an example I have seen a small block chevy blow a flywheel parts exited upward thru the floor board amputated a foot went thru the dash and took out the windshield. Example #2 early model 4020 flywheel had been ground beyond spec with lots of heat checks. at stock rpm in the field broke the clutch housing took nose off the starter and broke back of the block and bent the crankshaft... Example #3 JD forage harvestor 619 JD motor fuel had been turned up RPM is at stock gov speed. These older units had a flywheel weight aprox 150 lbs with two disc Rockford clutch. Unit gets to end of field and turns on end rows when flywheel blows...(note engine is not even under load) completely destroys the bellhousing, takes the starter and area of the block that holds the starter right off the block. pulls all the frame mounting bolts right out of the block and pushes the frame out aprox 10" and as this is the side of the forage harvestor the silage blower is on it also busts it loose from the frame. One part of the flywheel went downward and destroyed the entire auger belly pan under the chopper. One pie shaped piece of the flywheel estimated to weigh aprox 45 lbs was never recovered there was a reuse pit aprox 150 ft from the explosion and it is assumed that part went in the pond.
If you want to set on a couple sticks of dynamite and play with the fuse it is your business but you injure or even worse kill one spectator and the lawyers will see that you will loose everything you have and your sons and grandsons too! I remember an accident back in the early 80's a modified thru a stone from the track and a person lost an eye in the grandstand....that was good for 200,000 dollars they used the shotgun theory went after the puller, promoter, and owner of the facility. |
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Re: Engineering question about this issue.
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Mn. Puller
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I have been told from people about this issue, is that "if you can afford to go pulling, you can afford the safety equipment that goes along with it". |
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Re: Engineering question about this issue.
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Ok, I think you guys are missing the point of my post. I am not condoning running stock parts at high RPM at all. Trust me, my 7 year old son and I were very close when the subject tractor let go and that is the second one I have personally seen, don't want to see any more. What I am asking is everybody agrees that the situation is unacceptable so what is acceptable? Old Fart mentiones that there should be no stock flywheels on anything running over stock rpm. Fine, I can agree with that but at what point does that also require a blanket and tie bars? If the answer is those three should always go hand in hand then I a fine with that. If you tell me that Farmall M needs as steel flywheel because he is running 10% over stock in a pace class then I am fine with that as well. However, we just can't go around yelling the sky is falling without having minimum standards. As somebody else always posts on here, "where's the spec?" 
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Re: Engineering question about this issue.
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,151 |
[www.tractorpulling.com]
These have not let any accidents happen in the past 20 years... Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: Engineering question about this issue.
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FordPlay
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These are just my opinions based on what I think you are asking:
I think at a minimum every pulling tractor needs a scatter blanket or a blow proof bellhousing. Around here, even the "stock" pace classes have machines pushing way more power than they were manufactured with and in my opinion, it is wreckless to not have something as simple and affordable as a scatter blanket to help contain anything that breaks in the bellhousing. Will a scatter blanket really break the bank for you antique pullers? Anything running 20% over stock rpm should have a steel flywheel and a scatter blanket. For your open rpm classes, you should have the steel flywheel, scatter blanket and tie bars. This may provide a level of safety for all of us, yet keep things in check and not over react based upon an incident where the absence of safety rules by the promoter led to a breach in common sense and good judgment on the part of the builder. |
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Re: Engineering question about this issue.
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Registered: 05/05/2008 Posts: 124 |
In my opinion 3000 rpm and below tractors do not need a steel clutch assembly. I see by sascha's rules they allow 3200 rpm and have had no incidents in 20 years with stock flywheels. All tractors exceeding 15 mph should have a ROPS, wide front end and seat belt and air shut off. all tractors should have some form of wheelie bar. |
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Re: Engineering question about this issue.
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,151 |
Read again:
Point 2 on page 3: ETPC Safety Rules apply = Pro Stock rules Excluded are the 2700 rpm limited tractors that run with a 68mm air inlet limit. They are allowed to have a cast flywheel and also don't need a rollcage but are ok to run the OEM ROP or the design we have laid out for them. This is a typical "Sportsman" tractor in our neck of the woods. 358 cui german diesel IH, 14mm A, air to air intercooler, HX 50 turbo, 2700 rpm limit, 650 on 38 inch Michelins, kill switch, dead man throttle, side shields, individual turbo shielding...7700 lbs, 
www.myvideo.de]; title='3,5t Sportklasse Füchtorf 2010 - MyVideo'>3,5t Sportklasse Füchtorf 2010 - MyVideo Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2010 09:17AM by Sascha. |
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Re: Engineering question about this issue.
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Registered: 09/09/2009 Posts: 140 |
stock tractors are the only thing that should stock flywheels. im no better than the next guy i ran a cast single disc last year. put a new one in and had 2 pulls on it and it looked like a flywheel that had over a 1000 hours on it. it was heat checked terrible. its not necessarily the power, rpms, or speed...its the heat that this generated from the clutch slipping but the previously mentioned are all contributors to the flywheel exploding. the only reason i say this is ive had enough old binders apart at the place i work at, and the guys who use them as loader tractors seem to be the worst because they are constantly using the clutch and slipping it. but this year i have a 2disc steel component clutch, tie bars, and a blanket. main thing is the fans safety. its not a matter of if but a matter of when it will happen. |
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Re: Engineering question about this issue.
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Registered: 05/05/2008 Posts: 124 |
I just added a 5th disc to my wet clutch set-up on my JD 4430 this winter. After 4 years of pulling I saw no signs of wear on the clutch plate or the backing plate and could not tell the difference bewteen a new disc and the old discs in appearance or measurments. I have run 3000 rpm in 7th gear during that time and last season 7.5 gear. I wonder if the wet clutch helps keep the heat down since it has oil taking the heat away. |
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Re: Engineering question about this issue.
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Registered: 09/09/2009 Posts: 140 |
i would agree on the oil keeping it cool. but with a wet clutch in a red tractor they are steel. yes you have a flywheel with a flex plate and a coupler shaft but the flywheel only serves as a way to start the tractor. i guess i don't know about deere? how do they work? or setup? |
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Re: Engineering question about this issue.
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Registered: 05/05/2008 Posts: 124 |
they are kind the opposite of a conventional clutch in that when the fingers are depressed they lock up the clutch. the assembly or housing is bolted to the crank and inside are seperator plates which all rotate with the crankshaft. Between the seperator plates are clutch discs which are splined onto the clutch hubs. There is a lot of contact area five 12 inch discs that kind of look like a big cutter wheel . the assembly is cast while the separator plates are all steel. |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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missing something
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is there any photos of this tragedy? |
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Re: Flywheels (Safety) When will we learn?
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Hey there missing something. I got pic at Wooster tractor 4010 . Send me email or no. I'll send them |
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