03:22:32am, Friday, May 17, 2024
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photos
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wonderer
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is jake or dick going to poss the photos from Tomah? |
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Re: photos
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
We didn't go to Tomah. I think the only NTPA event you’ll see me at this year is Bowling Green. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: photos
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WHY
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Too busy or boycotting? |
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Re: photos
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wonderer
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aw..thats disappointing...i was looking forward to see the tomah photos...does anyone know where i could find them and be able to save them without paying? |
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Re: photos
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
If you’ve been a fan of downloading our FREE photos (which it sounds like you have) please take the time to say thanks by donating to my Juvenile Diabetes Fundraiser:
To donate online please click here Any amount is fine… a dollar or two or five would make me extremely happy to know that more money will go towards research. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Here’s how I look at it:
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
You can call it boycotting if you’d like but that’s not how I look at it. Here’s how I look at it:
I loved Mountain Dew. I’ve generally drank it over Mello Yellow. Mello Yellow is getting sold more often in my area so I decided to drink both and really appreciate both sodas and I drink whichever one is readily available. Now let’s say that Mountain Dew decides to change their recipe and now Mountain Dew taste like beets! Should I still buy Mountain Dew that tastes like beets when there is a different option out there? Personally I don’t like the flavor of beets, and I don’t want to drink beet flavor even if it is in my favorite old green can. I actually don’t feel like I’m boycotting Mountain Dew, but rather that Mountain Dew has abandoned what made them great. My tastes haven’t changed, their flavor has. It’s not a boycotts of a product or a temper tantrum, its rather just a simple decision about my enjoyment, money, and time (three things that are extremely important to me). Should I remain loyal to Mountain Dew even though they haven’t remained loyal to what their loyal drinkers love about the drink? I’m not boycotting the NTPA by trying to “force” them to change. I’m not mad at the NTPA or the people in it (there are some exceptional people in that organization who I thoroughly enjoy talking with). Unfortunately, as a organization they have just changed the flavor of their product so much in some classes that I’m not interest in them anymore. They still have some great classes: the cast rearend tractor classes, the Mini’s are awesome, Unlimited Mod, TWD, and FWD are all great classes. But for me letting component tractors run a green motor with a red hood (and vice verse) has crossed the line. I grew up loving tractors and I grew up enjoying the engineering and brand loyalty that made pulling great. Now the NTPA has allowed the component classes to be so watered down and so cookie cutter that, for me, the engineering appeal has dwindled. Back to a different soda analogy, if Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, Mr. Pibb, Sprite, 7-up, etc… all came from the same assembly line in the same factory and the only difference was a different can…. Well that’s not much variety to me! I want true variety, and bottling the same thing and trying to sell it to me in a different can is an insult to me and my intelligence as a fan of soda. We are already seeing crossbred component tractors in the NTPA and it’s only going to get worse, soon you won’t know what’s under the hood of any component tractor. It’s just too far from the product that made the NTPA great. PPL is by no means a perfect organization, and I truly wish they had Light Super Stock and Light Pro Stock, but at least a Deere is still a Deere in their rules. I’m not boycotting one, just choosing to buy the other product more often. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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mod turbo
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i bet that wont last jake, times may be changing there too i heard |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Curt Forrester
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I too am a loyal mountain dew drinker, however I did recently try a mountain dew distortion which is a regular mountain dew with a couple extra shots of lime which I found to be very pleasing. So what I found is regular dew is still my favorite but I do enjoy the change of the distortion. So maybe the ntpa, though different may be a nice change once in awhile also. I don't like the rule either, I thought if they want a rediculous cube limit like 680 you should be able to use any engine in your manufactures arsenal so we could run a combine engine or a 4x4 engine but I didn't think it should cross manufacturers line, I mean lets face it the 619,644 jd engines never came in a twd tractor so what would be the difference. |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Tyrone
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Cmon Curt, the 6030 had a 619 in it. That's 2wd. |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Anonymous User
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Well I like Busch Light but if the cooler is full of Miller Light I drink it and if Fat boy wants to have a Windsor with me I'll go with that...........Oh and that's not an analogy, this thread is just making me thirsty. |
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thats the way to think about things
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Registered: 01/19/2010 Posts: 260 |
i knew u wisconsin boys have good idea's  
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Buffy
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LOL- ditto, Dave! |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Anonymous User
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Tyrone, actually the 6030 came with a 531 and the 619 is the OEM replacement. So technically Curt is correct.
DPS |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 267 |
Both motors were offered in a 6030 |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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nope
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619 might be the replacement, but a 619 never ever came factory original in a 6030 |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 267 |
Ok I believe you, but I will look it up in a book that the boys have |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
"Nope" is correct, the 619 NEVER came in a 5010, 5020, or 6030. Not one single one came with a 619, they ALL came with the 531. The 531 and 619 cranks will interchange between blocks so it's always been a "legal" replacement, but stock from the John Deere factory it never had a 619.
To Curt, I’m not saying I won’t try Beet flavored Mountain Dew, I’ll try it, but I’ve got a pretty good idea that I’d still rather drink Mello Yello or go back to original Mountain Dew. Here’s where I think the NTPA is going: - (Mountain Dew Beet, now with a twist of Avocado) Generic billet blocks for everyone will be legalized. The block will have very, very, very, few measurements to comply with: deck height and bore spacing and Cubic inch and that’s about it. Every color will be allowed to run the same generic billet block, or any cast block for any brand. PPL on the other hand might go something like: - (Mello Yello, now with the refreshing hint of Celery) Billet block must still swing a stock crank and have the stock bore spacing and stock bolt pattern for the head. Tracy Varns “Head Games” Oliver 2150 is a perfect example of this. At least this is where I hope PPL goes compared to NTPA. Here’s my take: If PPL has some relationship to the original brand I’d rather go to the PPL events. The Oliver block is still compatible with Oliver parts. I know it wasn’t built by Hercules, but it “feels” like it’s related to Oliver. That “feeling” is better than nothing for me as a fan. The NTPA is setting the tractor classes up to be just like the truck classes, a generic block spec that everyone can stamp out. In a very few short years the component tractors will be cookie cutter Keith Black style blocks with Sassy style engines. The TWD and FWD class has some great things going, but cheering for Ford and Chevy isn’t one of them... brand loyalty is a joke. The tractor classes will be as generic as you could possible make them, just another single engine mod class. Color the hood what you want, make it as big or as small as you want, and call it whatever brand you see fit. Before you know it we'll have T-bucket style tractors that no new fans can relate to. In many ways the NTPA is going in completely the opposite direction that I think would be beneficial for this sport. The tractor classes were (and are for a little while) built on brand loyalty. It’s about the limits of what you can make a TRACTOR do. The NTPA has recently thrown the brand loyalty out and it’s about to throw the very last bit of tractor out. Instead of highlighting and building off of their strengths as an organization, they’ve thrown their strengths in the trash. Every organization and individual has strengths and weaknesses, the NTPA has truly amazed me recently in their inability to identify either one. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Anonymous User
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Well put. I agree completely! |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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wonderng
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i was wonder ing if there will be any law suits when some guy puts a green hood and a crap motor together that throws parts into the crowd and some fan wants to sue john deere,,, just cause theres a green hood there |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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just sell it all buy a boat and go fishing and drink som beer what the ntpa pays out for a win is a joke |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 267 |
You are correct, What I missed was that the 531 could come as a NA motor or a turbo/intercooler motor. (6030) I ASSUMED that the turbo version was the 619. I was wrong |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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``I agree with Jake. When I go watch a pull its kind of sad to watch what happens when those trucks all running the same engine get ready to pull....There always seems to be a mass exodus of people towards the concessions and restrooms. They make alot of power, they look good, the drivers operate them well, but usually there is little interest unless something different than the rest is hooking.( gottta love that turbocharged Silent Thunder truck)
``Personally I think it will eventually come down to who spends the most money. Whoever can afford the most billet parts and the most R&D will win. Alot of people claim this is "keeping up with the times" when really its about money. Im sure the guys making those parts lobby quite heavily to make them legal for eveybody, regardless of brand! I know if i was building a block that was superior to a cast block and the guys that were using it were winning I would try my hardest to make it legal for everyone to be able to buy it! I would donate money, sponsor classes, and create a contingency program for the users........(the return on investment if you can pull this type of deal off will be enormous) So for those who say its about level competion I say PUH-LEEZE! I may have fallen off the turnip truck, but it wasn't yesterday! `` The classes that allow this hermaphroditic bastardization of the machines may not last long enough to kill the rest of the sport...... Unless of course the rest of the classes are forced to support them with a stimulus package...... Oh and I cant drink MT Dew , the caffeine is bad for my heart! But if I had my choice it would be to drink Original MT Dew without all the artificial additives. The way it was before it was an "EXTREME" drink. |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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TORN
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I agree with Jake as well but, the generic blocks are coming. The drivers and their teams are gonna have to become the attraction. We will have to have a John Force of tractor pulling. I think that will be good for the sport. |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Simple Amazing
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I have never heard so much BS over a sack. A block is nothing more than a sack for your Mountain Dew, Bud Light, or whatever your drink. The sack holds all kinds of drinks none of which are orginal to the sack and is made out of paper and fails when you put to much in it. So what has to happen?? You have to have a better sack to hold all the drinks you want ( i.e. HORSEPOWER ) because the old sacks are just what they say they are OLD!!!!!! and cannot handle the pressure of all the new parts that are not part of the sack to bring with.
But we like our paper sack so much that we really do not care what we put in it as long as it is still a paper sack and has the Grocery store LOGO on it from the orginal grocery store that we went to back in the 60's, 70's because I JUST LOVE THAT GROCERY STORE |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 496 |
Man, that is a good one!!!!!! JW |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Posts: 756 |
Maybe NTPA wiill become just like NASCAR. NASCAR has the car of tomorrow, COT for short. NTPA will have the Tractor Of Tomorrow OR TOT for short. They will have airbrushed grills and headlights and the engines will all be the same, no one could tell the difference in the competing vehicles. I know lots of guys love NASCAR but for me it it is a MAJOR yawn festival. NTPA back to your roots please!! IMHO |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Heerz a thot
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already a generic corporate block that will match a whole buncha metal already called a cummins 505 or 8.3 if someone or some group of someones were to put some r and d into that block people fussin bout mismatched tin and engine blocks wouldnt b fussin and its a bunch cheepr than casting new blocks |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Exactly!!!!!!!
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That is why this love hate relationship of the block matching the sheet metal is so bogus, If the purist wish to be purist, then stand by your ideal that the block match the sheetmetal but do not compromise and say as long as it was in the lintage of the line. Be sure it is the true block for the sheetmetal being displayed. There is not an MX series tractor that had a DT 466 in it and a 460 IH did not have a DT466, The AGCO's did not have a 426 in them, The new New Holland or Ford's did not have a Genisis motor in them. But the purist is still willing to compromise and say he is brand loyal which is not technically true. All of these tractors had 8.3 CUMMINS. SO RUN WHAT CAME WITH YOUR SHEETMETAL. Then and only then will you be true to the line and to the FAN. Remember the block is nothing more than a sack for a bunch of HIGH DOLLAR NON - LINTAGE PARTS |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I’ve personally stated on a number of occasions that my absolute first choice is to have the block match the sheetmetal exactly… no “updating”, no DT466 in a 1206… My second choice would be to allow the interchange of blocks that accept the stock crank… replacing your DT414 or DT436 with a DT466, replace your 401 with a 456 or 474, etc… My third favorite option would be to follow the lineage. For those that think following the lineage is too hard… there are about a dozen “lines” if you can’t trace through them then the organization could provide a simple list for you (Here's my list from 9 months ago... it has some redundancy to make sure it's got no grey area).
I’m also a realist, and understand that the first two options aren’t as realistic a choice so I’ve lobbied for the third option in the past. As for the 8.3 Cummins… it’s simple to follow the lineage with that blocks as well. The NTPA rules are set and they won’t change them back, and it’s not a big deal. We discussed all this about 9 months ago and my feelings were the same back then. For now, I’ll just take my money to a club that supports the ideals that I like better. When the Light Pro really takes hold the NTPA will once again have a high horsepower tractor class that has rules I like. But for now the NTPA mostly has tractor classes that allow any hood on any block, and for me… that not something I want to watch. You can call them TOT… Tractors of Tomorrow (I like that name), I’ve called them Frankenstocks ever since the D-21 rear was allowed to be tied to a DT466 in Ohio. Whatever you call them, its got nothing to do with brand or tractor anymore. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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MM3Jb
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right on jake |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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block is one thing but how many JD s have IH crank and rods in them so it dont mater anyway just drink beer have fun |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Hey, I have a bunch of photos from Tomah, I know that isn't in the current discussion, but if anyone wants them, shoot me an email and I will try and get them to you. (power206@umn.edu) |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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wow
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Shame on you Jake if you won't go to NTPA events just because the engine doesn't match the bodywork in the tractor classes.Face it,nothing can stay the same forever.Things have to change. I don't consider you a pulling fan at all..more like a tractor hugging hippie. NTPA's action on the track is second to none and you're whining and crying just because of a rule they put in. And why do you think that you have to go to BG? It's NTPA so shouldn't you not go there if you're not going to enjoy yourself during the pull? Do us all a favor and don't show up. Pulling doesn't need you if all you're going to do is complain. |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
The NTPA rules have a direct impact on four of the classes I thoroughly enjoy… that’s a good portion of any show, and one that makes my decision not to drive too far for many events pretty easy. The pull at BG is a Super National, and has so many other classes that it will still give me plenty to enjoy.
Personally I don’t care if you think I’m a pulling fan or a tractor hugging hippie (have you seen my picture on my profile… not much hippie hair there!). I also don’t care if you want me to go to a pull or not. I’m pretty secure in who I am and what I like and dislike and I don’t need your permission to enjoy myself as I see fit. If you don’t like my comments don’t read them and move on and enjoy your life. If you don’t want to see me at a pull don’t stop by and say hi (although I love meeting new people even if we don’t agree), you can choose to not even look in my direction and you’ll be all set and you can pretend I’m not there (I assume you’ll also be pretending that the Kubota that wins the PS class is not really just a BBJD too) I think it’s great that you like the rule, maybe someday you can go to pulls and cheer for your favorite John Deere powered Dynamark. Maybe on the way home you can stop by the clubs and tip your favorite crossdressing singer… “she” may look hot, but I’m guessing you won’t be happy when you see what’s under the hood. However, I guess if your more impressed with looks rather than content you may not care what’s under the hood after all! It’s a free country and you are free to do as you please. Me… I like things to be true, I like things to be what they are advertised as. I like my women with the right women parts, and I like my John Deere with a John Deere block. I guess we are just a little different on some things. Some people like F1, some like Nascar, and some like Rally Sport. All these sports have changed and some resemble cars and some don’t. I think it’s time for tractor pulling to make some serious changes, unfortunately I think the changes it needs to make are in a different direction. The truth is that this sport isn’t growing. It’s isn’t getting any bigger. It is slowly getting pushed out of more and more fairs for a demo derby or an antique pull. I think pulling is losing touch with its roots. It’s trying to attract new fans and pullers while kicking dirt in the face of its core supporters. The new fans aren’t showing up, and the old fans are turning away. Yes things change, things need to change, but not in this direction. As for why I’m going to Bowling Green… well the blue shirts have asked us to cover the event for them and they are a great bunch of guys that put on one of the best, if not the best, tractor pull in the world. I’m also covering the event for the NTPA who has some excellent classes and some first rate people within the organization. Personally, I’ll love watching some of the action on the track: the mini are just downright awesome! Mods and Unlimiteds will be an amazing show as well. I’ll enjoy watching the “tractors” that I’m 100% sure of what’s under the hood, but I still will wonder what is powering a good portion of the SS or PS classes and that will take some of the fun out of it for me. I never said the NTPA show wasn’t first rate, just that this rule is a piece of garbage. You enjoy your Frankenstocks and I’ll hug my Tractors. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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ha!
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dude, jake just pwned you... |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Anonymous User
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Hey Jake... Good post. I kinda agree, but I wouldn't draw the engineering line at a cast rear. There's a lot more engineering from the builder's perspective going into a component in my opinion.
I'm a PS fan through-and-through, and I don't like the idea of a JD in an IH hood or an IH in a JD hood any more than you do, but I have to be a realist… Early last year or the year before when Domann's ran with PPL but were not in the points, it was good to see an Agco pour it on even though I knew it didn't have a 426 block in it. I don't know where the Series 40 came from, or what (if anything) it was in; I just know it's the factory replacement for the 426 and I'm told that many would not be able to distinguish it from a DT466 if only looking at the outside of it. Now, theoretically speaking - is it that little thread of lineage that our minds hold on to, to make ourselves enjoy the class? Elvin's Series 40 in an Agco is fine to watch because of a fine print rule, but Freddy's 8530 with a DT466 isn't? I HATE it when folks compare this sport to NASCAR on here, but I'm about to do it...albeit from a different angle. If I want to see a Chevy race car with a Chevy 350 in it, I need to go to my local track. I'll not find it many other places, unless it's your local track or someone else’s local track. If I go to the Brickyard 400, then I just get to see what I see and I have no idea what (if any) difference there is in the cars. That said; if you want to see a DT466 bolted to a 706 rear end, with 1066 sheetmetal - you'll need to go to a brush pull. If you go to Bowling Green, you'll have to see what you see like the Brickyard. On a related note, how is it that you say you love the TWD and FWD classes when they are no less cross-dressed and cookie-cutter than PS? To me IF you go away from same color block / sheetmetal in a component class; it becomes harder to make the argument that they should not allow billet blocks as well. Perhaps then it will be more palatable to watch, like TWD for FWD. Now all this said, I think it’s a crappy rule and it’s the beginning of a slippery slope to what I’ve described above. But if it comes to bear in the PPL too, then it’s time for billet blocks as well. And when I hit the Powerball, I’ll have my component 1960 John Deere 830 with a Perkins in it all painted blue; because you need to be careful what you ask for folks, you just might get it. |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 256 |
I have asked this question b4 and have had no answers ARE THERE ANY CROSS DRESSERS OUT THERE NOW OR IS EVERONE COMPLAINING ABOUT A RULE THAT IS NOT BEING EXPLOITED? No I dont agree with it either |
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Re: Here’s how I look at it:
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puller 12000
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there are none now, just a lot of whining because there might be, and ostpa a member of ppl is considering adopting the same rule |
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OSTPA Was the spear head of this rule prior to switching to PPL
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Jerremy Yantes
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OSTPA was the spear head of this rule. I can remember sitting at SS Agenda meetings and Frank Keener wanting to adopt this rule so he could put JD sheet metal over his Agco motor. I believe Hirt's petitioned NTPA to allow them to run AGCO sheet metal over their Brent Long IH motor. People are making more of an issue of this than need be. This rule has been discussed amongst super stock pullers here in Ohio for close to 5 years now. |
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Re: OSTPA Was the spear head of this rule prior to switching to PPL
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Jared Davis
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I agree totally with Jeremy Yantes. OSTPA voted on April 18 at their spring meeting to allow this rule. Jake and the other guys here are overreacting. I have no problem with somebody crossing brands. They let the trucks do it, so why shouldn't the tractors be allowed to do so ? |
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Re: OSTPA Was the spear head of this rule prior to switching to PPL
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read the rules
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with the way the ntpa rules are now you can run any motor that was in ANY ag RELATED peice of equitment. that means that if you look hard enough you can find a crop sprayer or iragation pump manure hauler that is ag related and take ANY motor out and use it in your pulling tractor. If you look hard enough you can find a hemi or some other motor and just put in your marinda pulling tractor. the ntpa rules are so cloudy that ANY motor will work in any sheet metal. SO WHAT IS AN AG TYPE MOTOR????????????????????????If you don't believe me read the rule book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Re: OSTPA Was the spear head of this rule prior to switching to PPL
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,152 |
There is some fine corn hhopper engines that could be used  Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: OSTPA Was the spear head of this rule prior to switching to PPL
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
"Jake and the other guys here are overreacting" - no, I simply know what I like and what I don't like. You like cross dressing tractors (frankenstocks) and I don't, it's as simple as that. I could argue that you are under-reacting, but it's just my opinion against yours, there is no "over" or "under", just reacting as we both see fit. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: OSTPA Was the spear head of this rule prior to switching to PPL
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Tommy
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What about the trucks? Maybe I missed you comment when someone asked you about them. Just curious. |
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Re: OSTPA Was the spear head of this rule prior to switching to PPL
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I’ve stated on a number of occasions that I would love for there to be a manufacturers TWD class. I’d love a class of blown Small blocks with Nascar type engine restriction (but with a blower of course). Make the brand of engine match the brand of hood/body and let the real Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota, Nissan, fans cheer for their favorite. I’d love to see the 351’s against the 350’s and 360’s. That would bring some brand rivalry back to the truck classes. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Two Sides To An Argument
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I happened to stumble across this site and find it very interesting. I grew up about 15 miles north of BG and was intrigued by the tractor pulls at the Wood County Fair and the Nats. Unfortunately, for the longest time the closest I got to the pulls was the highlights broadcast on public broadcasting the following week.
In 1988, I finally made it to my first pull. Saturday night at the Nats. I made a friend go as I had never been before. With a splitting headache, I sat quietly on the bottom row, west end of the southern stands and watched the SSD's belch their plume of black smoke and whistle their way down the track. Way Too Cool!! The Mods were cool, but not what I had come for. I remember that there might have been two or three thousand people there. I don't remember the trucks pulling. Flash forward to this year....My second Saturday at the Nats in BG. Wow, the Nats have grown! Seating on the track, the stands stuffed, parking everywhere! I was impressed with the airport people mover from KCAK. Something must be going right cause attendance seems to be growing. It was a miserable night in the 65 degree mist and the crowd was excellent. Which brings me to my point.....Who are the pulls really for? I am sure they started out with a couple of farmers getting together on a hot summer night to settle some rivalry. And as things go, they grow. Who has the baddest tractor is now a spectator sport. It grows past a fair event and the obvious next leap becomes reality,Who has the baddest tractor in the country? Attendance grows, purses grow, "innovation" grows. Pulls get more competitive and sophisticated. The unfortunate reality is that the corporations that build tractors don't really receive much benefit from these competitions. They merge, or go out of business. There aren't many Olivers pulling that I see. MM, in the pulling arena, may be the next dinosaur. I enjoy the rivalries even though I am not a farmer. My wife's cousin is a Massey freak. Nothing but red on his farm! NASCAR is growing, but I don't watch it any more. They don't resemble anything stock. The component tractor is the pulling analogous of the COT. I may not necessarily like the direction the sport is going, but someone does. I like Farm Stock, but how long will it last? |
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Yes, but it starts out innocuously
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
It usually starts out with a mild example:
Somebody… maybe Jody Ross for example puts a McCormick hood over a DT466 or a Hypermax block. Nobody gets their feathers ruffled because people think that McCormick is still tied to IH. Well, it’s not even remotely tied but both companies are red so we act as if it’s OK. We pretend they have a lineage together and tell ourselves that it adds some variety. Call it what you like, but it’s cross-dressing. It always starts out innocuously. How many people hooked on Meth or Cocaine started out smoking pot and nothing more. It started out simply an innocently until they needed a new fix. It always starts out with a mild example. It will be John Deere powered IH’s and IH powered Deere in no time, and it may already be that way. I’ve heard of a JD LSS puller that wants a Terry B. built IH powering his Deere, and it may indeed be in that Deere already. I know this rule isn’t a big deal to some people and that’s fine, that’s 100% OK with me, but it is a big deal for others, it’s a huge deal for me and I still believe that brand loyalty is the biggest asset that the tractor classes are built on. There’s a reason we don’t see people walking around the pits in green and yellow shirts that say CaseIH. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Yes, but it starts out innocuously
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G-1350
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Right on Jake!!!!!!!!!!
We pull 10,000 Limited Pro-Stock G-1350 Moline & and a some really good friends of mine pull a 9170 Duetz tractor, G-1000 on alcohol, and a G1000 with a 585. They are also in the process of building a White with a cummins on alcohol. We pull these tractors to put color in the classes and everyone around seems to appreciate us showing up & putting the color in the classes also. Of course, with the motors they come out with!
I will 100% agree with you on everything that you have been saying!!! Just my 2 cents worth! I want to personally thank you for your awsome website! 
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Re: Yes, but it starts out innocuously
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Very Simple
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The only reason this rule has been made is for the diesel super class. The red tractors don't want aftermarket billet blocks in the class, they are afraid someone will make one better than jerrys. That is why a certain few not the class voted against billet blocks. So they decided it would seem fair if everyone would run the same block they are now allowed to run. You can come and play in their sandbox, you just can't have better toys. The new hypermax block is a billet block because it is hand made not factory made. I can't understand how the red pullers were whining about their old blocks being durable and now every one of them have come out with the new block and they have gained 80 cubic inches, there goes the durability excuse out the window. |
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Re: Yes, but it starts out innocuously
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IH4EVR
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Why does it matter what block they run? before the rule change the only difference from a ih component to a jd component was the outside of the block. With billet heads, billet rods, billet pistons, billet cranks, and etc. they were all the same internaly anyways the only difference was the outside of the block. Yes the bore and shapes of things were different but more less the same. In my eyes the main advantage to having this rule is the puller can pick his favorite and most durable block. The rule is not hurting a thing plain and simple! The only thing new rules seem to do is give people something to complain about! |
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Re: IH4EVR has it right!
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Jared Davis
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That is reason why pullers have pushed for this rule. This rule allows pullers to pick their favorite block and metal go have at it. As I said before, if truck guys can do it, why can't the tractor guys ? Nobody has complained about Atleys or Erik Stacey running a Cummins in a Ford or Chevrolet, so why should they complain about an IH in a AGCO or a Cummins in an IH ? And how will it kill brand loyalty ? Jeff Hirt and his dad always ran AGCOs for years and then when they switch blocks, they're made to switch to a brand they don't like. How fair is that ? John Wilkins put a Cummins in his IH last year and that didn't change the identity of it. It's still the same IH, same chassis just a new engine. I think this rule will help pulling because if a guy switches blocks, he no longer has to spend more money and put a matching hood on it. |
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To 007
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Just some minor corrections:
The 40 Series Navistar came in many Agco tractors. It’s the engine option for many of the 9755/9765/9775 Series Agco Tractors. Elvin is running an Agco motor through-and-through. To everyone… the 40 Series is NOT a DT466, maybe they share a background, maybe some parts interchange… but they are NOT the same. A Willys Jeep is NOT a Ford Jeep, they look similar, but they are NOT the same! In Nascar, the Chevys still have to be powered by a Chevy, and a Ford, by a Ford… If your want to see a Chevy 350 derivative then simply cheer for the Chevy making the laps at any Nascar race. Nascar is still holding on to some brand loyalty because they know it’s an asset for them. I do agree that there is a ton of engineering in a component chassis. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise, I was simply saying that the engineering aspects under the hood will dwindle if everyone is running the same cookie cutter motor with the same block from the same supplier. (Chassis engineering is a whole different topic, and a very interesting one indeed, with tons of untapped potential.) The Red Parade of the 1990’s comes to mind and Youngblood is a direct result of someone needing the change things up. Brian and Family have so many fans for the same reason Elvin and the boys do, because it’s powered by something different, something that came from an Agco. Seifert’s and Gettinger’s stepped outside the norm because they had to in order to pull a JD in the SS class, it forced them to develop something different. How many fans would Carlton Cope have if the Massey was powered by a big block John Deere? People love to hear that Perkin run because it’s a Perkins. T-Bone gets unloaded from the hauler and Badger State fans start to cheer because they know it’s a True Red tractor that can run with the Deere. This new rule lets people order up their cookie cutter motors and put on what ever tin they want. This new rule discourages outside the box thinking and discourage brand loyalty. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: To 007
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 256 |
Said so well and true |
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Re: To 007
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Anonymous User
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Chevy and Ford may supply the blocks to those cars, but those blocks never saw the showroom floor at a dealership. It would be like JD or CaseIH offering a billet block to pullers, it would have nothing to due with farming or what block came in what to begin with. Sure, the fact that they made them would make some people feel better about it being under a green or red hood, but it would be no different froma technical or engineering perspective than Riverside or Hypermax making a billet block.
I was not aware that the the Series 40 came in Agco tractors, but I'm glad it did. It makes one wonder why everyone pitched a fit about allowing them then though doesn't it? It's my understanding the Shramek's still use the 426 in their tractor, so that's nothing that came from Agco. What are you referring to when you say "Seifert’s and Gettinger’s stepped outside the norm because they had to in order to pull a JD in the SS class, it forced them to develop something different." What's different about them? Fact is, no on will ever convince me that that there is enough difference in the DT466 and the JD 8.1 blocks to solely account for ANY difference in performance on the track in SSD or PS. That's simply NOT true. Period. You have to remember, I'm not for the cross-dressing any more than you are, but we have to be careful about the reasons we choose to use to defend against it. |
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Re: To 007
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
“no on will ever convince me that that there is enough difference in the DT466 and the JD 8.1 blocks to solely account for ANY difference in performance on the track in SSD or PS. That's simply NOT true” Now days with billet heads, rods, cranks, etc… I totally agree with you 100%, very well said. With the right cube limits and rules you should be able to make any color run (obviously at 680 CID it isn’t fair for all brands though!)
“but it would be no different froma technical or engineering perspective than Riverside or Hypermax making a billet block” I disagree here a little, but I agree with your second sentence… “It would be like JD or CaseIH offering a billet block to pullers”. Hypermax and riverside are aftermarket and not the original manufactures… Nascar still mandates that the car companies play along (sure they have special engines, that’s why I said “Chevy 350 derivative”, and not a stock Chevy 350, but either way it’s still made by Chevrolet). The key for me is that the block is made by the same company that the “car” or “tractor” came with. From an engineering standpoint, anybody can machine a Billet block, but from a technical standpoint it isn’t a John Deere block, so it isn’t a John Deere tractor… if REI wants to make their own sheetmetal to go with their block then maybe they should call it a REI 8330. Of course, pulling has written so many poor rules that the manufactures stepped away from US pulling along time ago. Europe on the other hand… well, their PS has a 510 limit and has factory support, and that class is awesome. US Pulling lost factory support because of its rules! These new rules do nothing but drive factories and dealerships even further away. The Seifert and Gettinger comment was referring to the fact that they did not just call Jerry at Hypermax and join the red parade. They were forced to run a different block (no cross dressing allowed back then) so they had to call REI and go a different route in order to pull a green tractor. Up until a few years ago it was unheard of for a Deere to be competitive, and the sport has benefited by the R & D of guys like Gettingers and Seiferts. As for Shramek, I’d love it if his tractor had a AC D-21 hood, that would be awesome. Personally I’m not the biggest fan of updating sheetmetal, but he still had to use an orange block to be able to run an orange hood, and that force him to push the limits on that 426. The sport now has a truly different combo because of the old rules. With the new rules there’s no need to push the limits on a Fendt, you can simple call Hypermax and put a Fendt hood on it, its just another Hypermax tractor and it’s nothing different and nothing new, except a LIE to the fans! Thanks for the excellent post! Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Updating sheet metal
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So many people say that billet blocks are the future and that this new rule is just "part of the evolution" of pulling, why then are they still running 30-year old mechanical engines? I know that mechanical fuel systems make more power, it just seems hypocritical to run a state of the art billet block but still run the old technology for the fuel delivery today with all the computer controlled engines. If someone wants to run 8520 JD sheet metal, make them run the electronic fuel system and not the mechanical system from the 6030 engine. Sure there would be teething issues at first, just like any R&D. It just seems like there is a lot of potential in regards to the fuel injection system. I enjoy the smoke just as much as the next guy, but with all the precision equipment available today, it seems that a drinking straw at the right time can provide enough fuel and make just as much power as running a garden hose worth of fuel over a longer duration of time.
As for the component tractors, they won't go away as long as people want to run updated sheet metal. These newer tractors (CIH MX series, JD 8520, AGCO DT225) as 4WD farm tractors are more suitable to pulling large 3-point tillage implements than the older tractors (IH 1066, JD 4430, AC D-21), which mostly pulled plows from the drawbar. As 4WD tractors, they are designed to keep the front ends on the ground for maximum traction, not transfer it to the rear axle like the tractors of old. The component chassis has one concern: transfer the engine's rotational force to the tires and plant it to the ground for maximum speed/draft while traveling down the track. So it looks like the only true tractor classes in the NTPA are the Light Pro and the Super Farm. As Jake said, it's interesting to see the cast rear tractors compete. I prefer them because it not only shows what builder/driver has the best chassis, but also what brand made the best engineered frame. |
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Re: Updating sheet metal
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523 |
i doubt we will ever see electronic fuel controls on a diesel.it has been legal to do for quite a while now,if a diesel wants to try the open ss class. |
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Re: Updating sheet metal
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,152 |
Don't worry - it's in the works Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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