Re: all green prostock classes

all green prostock classes July 05, 2010 11:23PM

rapper

I have been to multiple pulls this year and in the past and I must say the most boring class to watch is the prostocks. The entire class is green. Why is this? Is there something about a JD and a single turbo that hooks up? Do they have a cubic inch advantage? If you look at the other tractor classes you have color everywhere and the class is very competetive. If you don't like green tractors you must avoid a Prostock pull. At Bowling Green last year you would have to watch 10 green tractors pull and then one red. The other colors were non-existant. Very disappointing for those of us that like to watch some color. I like the light super stock class as well as any. That is a rainbow class and inches determine the top 20 tractors. I don't mean to complain about the John Deeres because they obviously have something figured out. (Linder Bros. hook at BG last year's Sat night session was "sick") They put what 50 feet on everyone in the pulloff. The other colors need to step up there game. Something needs to be done to this class to even the field.

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	Re: all green prostock classes July 06, 2010 01:20AM
Anonymous User	So are you saying to support the new rule any engine ane sheet metal? should bring mor color Reply Quote

Re: all green prostock classes July 06, 2010 04:28AM

Jake Morgan

Admin
Registered: 03/25/2008
Posts: 2,526

It would still be an all John Deere class, a different hood doesn’t make it an IH or a Case or a Ford. They might as well all keep the John Deere hoods and paint one green, one blue, one red, one pink, one purple, one orange, one cyan, one magenta……. that would be some variety according to the NTPA. I’d still rather watch an all green class as opposed to a bunch of John Deere cross dressed and impersonating some other brand.

Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News

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	Re: all green prostock classes July 06, 2010 06:56PM
Anonymous User	What about if i put a detroit 4o series under a g1000 hood? who would complain? Reply Quote

	Re: all green prostock classes July 07, 2010 01:19AM
Anonymous User	Nobody. Reply Quote

Re: all green prostock classes July 07, 2010 03:26AM

Jake Morgan

Admin
Registered: 03/25/2008
Posts: 2,526

I would… I still think the hood and block should match. In my opinion a 40 Series should be under an orange Agco hood. According to the NTPA's "wonderful" new rule you could put a 40 series under a Dynamark hood

Here’s what I wrote about the PS class back in 2002 and 2004, it’s now 2010, and I’m pretty happy with my Opinion articles after all these years.

Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News

This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: all green prostock classes July 06, 2010 05:22AM

rapper

I certainly do not like cross dressers. That goes for tractors too. I am just wondering why the whole class is green. There must be a reason for it. I understand someone saying because a green one wins. When the whole class is green I would hope a green one would win. Why no color in that class? There must be a reason. Is it too expensive to bulid a different color tractor that wins? You can't build a different color prostock that wins? There must be an answer.

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	Re: all green prostock classes July 06, 2010 06:22AM
Fuelish Fan Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 480	The problem is a lot of the strongest red tractors in the country don't have the budget to travel all over the place. Cain's two tractors are strong and can travel. The other strong red tractors like T-Bone, Fuelish Pleasure, El Nino, Bite-N-Binder, and the last couple years Bad Habit stick mainly with there state organizations. Reply Quote

Re: all green prostock classes July 06, 2010 06:22AM

The Green Rule

If you make your cubic inch limit high enough in the class then only the engines that are large cubic inch to begin with will be able to afford to consistantly win and maintain a winning vehicle. This is the John Deere rule. This is especially true with single turbo charger tractors. In multi turbo classes men with better minds can make up for the displacement with better engineering. (think Young Blood) This is how JD's dominate a class. You dont see them dominate any class where the cubic inch limit starts down where othere engines are built. So instead of reeling in the outragous cubic inch limits the wise and powerful rule makers will now allow you to build your IH. Ford, Allis, Kubota with a JD engine. Which as everyone knows, is what you have secretly wanted to do all your life! Grinning

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	Re: all green prostock classes July 06, 2010 06:49AM
Very Simple	Its called big cubic inches.The other colors cant easily reach 680 cubes and have a reliable engine at that size. JD's are best suited for the PS class. Reply Quote

	Re: all green prostock classes July 06, 2010 07:13AM
Anonymous User	I have always felt the closer a tractor is to a stock the better option is to pull red. I have always felt the red ones are stronger out-of-the-box. I would pull a red one in any class at hot farm/466 or below. And yes Sully, this is coming from a green guy. DPS Reply Quote

	who and why 680 July 06, 2010 09:07AM
patches Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523	who decided on the 680 limit,and why 680 and not some other number ,bigger or smaller.i cant imagine back in the day when the pro class had color to it that the non jd pullers agreed to 680,that just doesn't make sense.i imagine that there was some level of politics involved too.it appears at that time in pulling history that majority did not rule. Reply Quote

	Re: who and why 680 July 06, 2010 11:40AM
redfan22	It wouldn't be so green if they hadn't shipped the main competition over seas in "WarPath". That is one bad mf! Reply Quote

	Re: who and why 680 July 06, 2010 12:04PM
patches Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523	yep,i agree 100%,that tractor sounds like no other.it could be the most popular non jd,if he can string a few good hooks together this year. Reply Quote

	Re: who and why 680 July 06, 2010 12:07PM
Anonymous User	Pro Stock all green, I don't think so. Red and Green, yah for the most part. Cain's tractors are as good as any. When the national pro stock's come to the area T-Bone and fuelish pleasure are always in the top 5 if not winning. Just check out Tomah or last years Hillsboro. Reply Quote

	Re: who and why 680 July 06, 2010 12:24PM
junkyard deere	aren't the iron dragon and new generation plus both small blocks? How come nobody built a case pro? 529 cid using stock parts. Good luck across the pond warpath, that tractor is wicked! As for the big block Deeres, how can you not appreciate those tantrum tractors? Reply Quote

Re: who and why 680 July 06, 2010 12:20PM

Sully

Registered: 04/06/2008
Posts: 974

I do not want to put the blame on one guy but, back in th e late 90`s when lance had really perfected the big block deere it was kinda of the way to go. Carrosels, Mike sarver, Martins, Teipens and yes even Weilmans original Pro was a tantrum motor that ran well for a quite a while. I know I missed a couple more. Sure guys like Shoppe and lemkes still ran very good with there motors that were not 680 and still are not. the problem with the reds back then is they were competing with a 600 inch motor then the 640 and in 2004 the 672 motors started to come on with little succes. At that time the only 672 motor that ran well was the Night moves tractor and when it didn't trash the bottom end it was always towards the top. I don't think the allis block can make 600 and turn a big charger and stay together and the ford sure as hell cannot. Its not rocket sceince that a 619 block means durabilty but over the past few years guys are finding way to make the red ones win again and not with 672 inch motors. And no the 8.1 deere block is NOT that good of a block. Yes they make horsepower but, they also like to split in half. Has there ever been a 466 deere block ever split in a pro? Not that i know of and we have seen a 619 split. I dont care if there are 20 deeres and 5 binders in the class I just love the class and the color thing is always going to be more green and a few reds but, the ones that are left around have it figured out and are not going anywhere soon. This Lt. Pro class shows a great future built needs time to get the bugs worked out. It will be a good class in time but, it will never replace the sound of true pro stock storming down the track.
BTW Rod doctor, I always knew you had it in you!!

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Re: who and why 680-Sully is right on the $ July 06, 2010 04:43PM

Anonymous User

Lance Little was the original big block builder that got the BB Deere's to run. He was ready to build bigger (700 something). Then the NTPA gets wind of this and puts in the 680 cui rule. I dont know if Lance initiated the conversation, but none the less there was a rule created. If you remember in the early days of prostock the rules were simple...any single charger, one fuel, any cui. IMO there were politics involved with the rule change and it is no different than where we are at today....the major builders are major players in our entertainement and sometimes rules are made accordingly.

DPS

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Re: who and why 680 July 06, 2010 07:59PM

....mr sully

you again prove you know not near as much as you claim

-weilmans have never owned a 619.not even in a stock field tractor
-also never had a tuntrum engine of any sort
-not that iit matters but chris little does "all" engine assembly at tantrum
-sarvers tractor was completely riverside except for a major hiccup with staab
-teipens were always a riverside small block
now you are much smarter!!!!

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	Re: who and why 680 July 06, 2010 10:45PM
Sully Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 974	I wont begin to argue with such ignorance.. The only thing you said right was about chris little Reply Quote

	We are spoiled in Badger State! July 07, 2010 12:50AM
Badgerfan	The pro class in Badger State is awesome with just as much red as green! Most of the time we have more red pro's. All of them are very potent tractors, but you can't beat the experience of Hook and Brinkmier. Stamm and Ladwig have a longer learning curve because they probably werent even born when Dwayne and Gary started pulling!!! , but there tractors run better everytime out. Reply Quote

	Re: We are spoiled in Badger State! July 07, 2010 01:17AM
Sully Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 974	ladwig really has a handle on his motor and trust me it is making ridiculus hp. Its just a matter of time before he figures out how to consistenly get the power to the track Reply Quote

	Re: who and why 680 July 07, 2010 02:47AM
check	check you facts before you type-you have no clue Reply Quote

	Re: who and why 680 July 07, 2010 03:09AM
Anonymous User	you are correct on all except we did own one of the first 8630's way too long Reply Quote

Re: who and why 680 July 08, 2010 12:03PM

Anonymous User

Some things that ALWAYS get left out of this conversation...

1. - There aren't as many BB Deere's as you might think. Wischmeier, 1 Masterson, 3 Boyds (usually), Shope, Linder, Campbell, Eilenfeld, Schmucker, Wileman, VanGenderen, Schroedl, 2 Boerson, Moss & Stratton, Shramek, Lemke - all small blocks.

2. - Most of they guys who can afford to compete in this class, farm with John Deere equipment (if they farm). It only stands to reason that they would pull John Deere, regardless of the CID limit.

3. - You don't need 680cid to compete in this class, you need to have HP and know how to get it to the ground.

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Re: all green prostock classes July 06, 2010 01:45PM

Anonymous User

being that the big cubes is the issues why dont you see more 3208 cats in this class starting out at 636 it seems feasible.. i dont know all of the variables that makes this build harder or anything etc but lustiks seem to be able to make it work quite well albeit on alky but im sure a good deisel can be built... or maybe i just live in an oliver/white dream world but i would love to see more of these running down track at the higher levels

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	Re: all green prostock classes July 06, 2010 04:40PM
patches Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523	i would think a top pro bottom end takes a harder beating than a alky,but if not like you said lustik's bottom end,and cope's top,and there would be one bad oliver.but i believe the cat's are somewhat weak in the bottom half. Reply Quote

	Re: all green prostock classes July 06, 2010 06:21PM
Fuelish Fan Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 480	Plus Lustiks got the overhead cams. Reply Quote

	Re: all green prostock classes July 07, 2010 01:42AM
FP680	Since when? He's always had pushrod heads on the Cat as far as I've ever seen Reply Quote

	Re: all green prostock classes July 07, 2010 03:00AM
patches Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523	i thought it had pushrods also.has there ever been a oliver diesel competitive in any regional or national type classes. Reply Quote

	Re: all green prostock classes July 07, 2010 07:24AM
Fuelish Fan Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 480	I apologize. You are correct. I was thinking that the Cat had the timing belt for overhead cams like the Duetz does. Reply Quote

	Re: all green prostock classes July 07, 2010 07:52AM
just curious	I was just wonderin'. What about a duetz with a 584cid or a moline with there 585cid? Reply Quote

	Re: all green prostock classes July 07, 2010 08:06AM
huh	duetz? Reply Quote

	Re: all green prostock classes July 07, 2010 08:14AM
just curious	I don't mean to ask a stupid question. Like i said, i was just wondering. I know that the moline only has 4 mains so that is probably out of the question. I was just lookin' for some input about those two bein' able to run in that class? THANKS Reply Quote

Re: all green prostock classes July 08, 2010 02:16AM

Oliver1655

Kevin Engleking runs a 1655 in the Badger State Pullers Assoc. in the light limited super stock class. Came in 2nd in the points in 2009. And there is a 2255 in Wisconsin/Iowa area that runs pretty mean. I'm no expert on the Hercules engine, I know it's not a cross-flow head. But with an aftermarket cross-flow head, could it be competitive in a pro stock class? I would think 600 cubes could be done with it, maybe.

Badger State Pullers: [www.bstponline.org]

Oliver 2255: [www.youtube.com]

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Hercules block July 08, 2010 06:31AM

Jake Morgan

Admin
Registered: 03/25/2008
Posts: 2,526

I believe the Herc is well suited for low to mid 500 CID, could probably get to 600 but might be pretty thin, especially for PS.

The Herc also has a tendency to break off the back corner of the block when it’s stressed. I’m sure the Herc pullers can shed much more light on this than I ever could, but I think the back corner is the weak spot.

Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News

This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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	Re: Hercules block July 08, 2010 06:38AM
patches Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523	correct jake,the back corner,and generally the back cylinder is weak.on the oliver guys site,im pretty sure there was a few pics of varns tr with the back cylinder removed. Reply Quote

	Re: all green prostock classes July 08, 2010 08:30AM
Anonymous User	indeed there is albulm: 2150 alky pics 5-7 Reply Quote

Re: all green prostock classes July 08, 2010 12:29PM

ol George

Registered: 09/23/2008
Posts: 633

As far as competitive dsl oliver, maybe in the light class several years back, Driessen's, Dachel and down here Noblett and Fox were strong in the 55 but in the hvy classes and any thing in the last 10 years not so much. Cubes for the waukeshau are the downfall and the hercules might hold up in a light super. Personally, I don't see anyway to make the cat reliable and a front runner in the dsl classes unless it is a limited rpm. Who knows maybe someone with deeeeeeeeeeep pockets will try to make it happen, but with the cummins in the whites that could happen quickly. As far as the MM there are some in the super/ hot farm type classes but a prostock is asking for a lot of repair time.

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