12:40:45pm, Thursday, May 02, 2024
|
runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
after reading about the PGM accident,is there a solution to this,i cant imagine any puller that would not be in favor of a guaranteed way to stop the motor.in some of the post below,it was stated that killing the air and fuel is not good enough.would a shutoff in the turbo oiling lines prevent this"running on crankcase oil".surely there is a electric,and manual,valve that can be used by the kill switch pullee,and actived manually when the driver decides to activate the kill switch himself.by stoping the flow of oil to the turbos,it should not continue to run,reight??.also while the bottomend is slowing down,the oil pump will continue to oil the crank,preserving it??or what about some sort of exhaust blow off,that would let the drive gases into the atmosphere and prevent the chargers from spooling.??im sure that some of the pump and charger guys can give some good ideas on how to remide this problem. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
puller892
|
How about a pressurized water valve on the intake to flood the engine with water in the event of a runaway? |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Shoot a fire extinquisher into the intake. It isn't good for the enigne, but it will kill it hammer dead before it kills someone else.... |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 214 |
The shutoff on the turbo oil line would be the simplist and best for the engine. The water and the fire extinguisher would just destroy the engine but they would shut it down. I have seen a couple of runaway engines that were running on the engine oil after the air and fuel were shut off. I think the housing on the turbo busted on both and allowed air in . the oil shut off would kill the other source of fuel. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
hello....
|
First off, he may have had all the kills necessary but who says they actually worked? an engine needs to things to run, fuel and air, and alot of it to run at such a high rpm. if the air was shutoff theres no way an engine can runaway because it cant supply sufficient air, it may still run however but not at an out of control rpm. Second thing, there is also supposed to be a fuel dump or diverter valve that takes away all the fuel away from the pump. the location of this valve is supposed to be right before the main injection pump so it takes the least amount of time to starve it, instead of dumping it right after the supply pump in which it must run out all the fuel in the filters and supply lines going to the pump. my guess is he may have all the requirements to kill the engine, but more than likely they failed to work. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 214 |
If you have a compressor housing burst from a intake wheel exploding [I have had this happen] then It makes no difference if the air shutoff is shut or not. There will be plenty of air |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Registered: 02/03/2010 Posts: 21 |
I blew a turbo intake oilseal once on a combine. It was pretty impressive what that little motor did on motor oil. All I could do was stand on the hydro and brakes and overload the machine until it stalled. As soon it was quiet I could hear the heat creaking from the cab. Motor dropped the cam a year later. Both of patches ideas have merit. Watched a Deere hang at Tallmadge. Official loaded intake with extinguisher before it died. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Anonymous User
|
Generally when a diesel engine runs away, its getting its fuel source from the engine oil. So no fuel shutoff in the world will help. The only way to stop it is with a strong way to choke off the air. Like shoving rags into the intake. I could be wrong but I don't believe an air shutoff device is required (yet) |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
air shut offs have been required for over 30 yrs,yrs ago the most common way was the rain flapper from an exhaust system. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Anonymous User
|
Probably right. Wasn't sure if it was required or just a preference thing. I just wonder if a dlapper valve like that would even come close to blocking enough air. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Anonymous User
|
I have heard that with all that vacum that a guilotine style air shutoff can get wedged 1/2 open or so and not shut until the motor dies this appearing like it worked properly once inspected after the inncident. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Registered: 09/20/2008 Posts: 20 |
I tried the fire extinguisher on a runaway GM 6.5, adn it just slowed it down a little. Emptied the whole thing down the intake, and didnt kill it. That's not a very good way to shut em off. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 974 |
i seen a llss hang open after the housing on the charger busted. Very scary situation and the only way they got it shut down was by john anderson's t-shirt. (He truly is a professional!) I would have to agree that a oil shut off would have helped. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
The correct way
|
The best way is to use a CO2 fire extenguisher in the intake. The CO2 simply sucks out all the oxygen. The motor will shut down right away. And it will do no harm to the engine. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
if the water inj is to rich to spool up,would some type of "massive" water inj cause it to despool or drown out.i guess im saying something like having two water inj systems,a lesser one for performance enhancement,and a larger set of nozzles for smothering the internal fire.this sounds kinda dumb,but would it work somehow,i imagine it would have to be port nozzels also,to eliminate watewr not getting there due to a broken housing. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Anonymous User
|
This might be a dumb idea but here goes.How about 2 air shut offs,both would be guillotine style,1 on each side of the turbo or turbos.My thinking is even if the engine is running on oil,the engine should be starved 2 ways,so no compresed air could get in the engine,thus maybe slowing things down a little more and maybe enough to kill the engine.Drawback could be a exploding turbo from the backup of any boost.Like i said,maybe a dumb idea,but thats all i can think of that hasn't been brought up. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
brush puller
|
would a engine brake like that on road tractors help to keep things from detonating ? still wont stop her completely. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Not an engineer by any stretch of the imagination but if the air cutoff was placed as close to the intake manifold as possible on the boosted side of the turbo would this completely shut off all air flow?? Obviously this cutoff would have to be a little more sturdy but I kinda think that may be part of the answer. Just a thought.
Rob Bonino |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
engine brake
|
A truck engine brake valve could be installed on the intake with some modification..they are a sealed unit... |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
The difficult part would be that an air shut-off on the boosted side of the turbo(s) would have to be a completely sealed unit when it's in the "open" position. With 250 lbs of boost it might be a bit of a challenge to make a sealed unit that would close effectively. A large diverter or dump valve that sends the boosted air into the exhaust pipe after the turbo(s)) would be a sealed solution.
Personally I think patches idea of a shutoff for the oil lines is an excellent and simple idea. It's cheap, effective, and simple to install. They would probably need to be installed in both the supply and drain lines just to avoid pulling oil from the pan. Take away the diesel and the oil and it sure doesn't leave much to burn! Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
CPR
|
I thought about it on the way to a pull this morning, and I think I like the 3 way on the turbo oil. Was considering a CO2 or massive water injection setup, but that becomes one more PITA to police and make sure there's no methanol, nitrous, nitro, hydrazine, yadda, yadda, hidden in it. I think a high pressure side air knife impractical. I do like the idea of a BOV, whether it be exhaust or intake to vent pressure, but killing the fuel source (oil) is better. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Is there any synthetic oils that wont burn ? Ive had some waste oil that i think is synthetic that wont burn in an oil furnace |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
Anonymous User
|
Here is another solution for an air kill and it is what I ran in my old truck and will be running in any other diesel puller from now on. Its mounted between the charger and the head. These types of air-kills are manitory in all the oil fields and alot of other places where there is a risk of fuel vapor being in the air. Here is a link to the one I can air shut off company
They are an English company but the place I got mine out of was from Mississippy I believe (4 years ago). I had my truck (twin turbo 5,9 cummins) try to run away from a blown oil seal in the big charger once and it killed the motor instantly!!! They are pretty expensive but it deffinatly could save a motor. I also ran it with a two way switch in the cab so I could shut if down from in the cab or by the break away trailer switch for the sled. It was still spring operated with an electric solinoid just holding the valve from closing. Ryan |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
IH-SSD
|
There is one problem everyone has missed. They will suck oil past the piston rings when the air is shut off this happens more in engines running keystone rings witch are in most diesels they do not seal in a vacuum they are desinged to seal under boost. A shut off on crank case breathers will help with this. |
|
Re: runaway diesel,any solutions
|
cletus
|
Having personally witnessed a Semi,one of Flocks truck, many years ago run away while loading onto its trailer - yes, at a pull, I can ASSURE you that fire extinguishers and even a FIRE HOSE directly into the intake will not shut down one when they are screaming..all it did was p/ss it off more and make it rev faster.Ask Collins about it, i'm sure he can give the most graphic explanation of this deal.Scariest thing I ever saw. CO2 might kill it if its near an idle but the volume of CO2 from any bottle is no where enough to displace enough oxygen to shut a runaway down.Think about how much air a SS is really moving at full boogie.. A valve on the HP side might help but what happens if say an intake valve drops, holes a piston and allows the other cylinders to suck oil and air from the crankcase, via the piston and open valveless intake port? There will always be a nightmare scenario that the dump valve and air shutoffs cant handle,just pray it never happens to you...its just something we have to accept as a possibility. You have to personally weigh the cost/feasibility of trying to put preventative measures in place vs the probability of an uncontrollable event like this occurring- just like all things in life that involve more than getting out of bed in the morning. |
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,673, Posts: 229,771, Members: 3,327.
This forum: Topics: 37,076, Posts: 225,944.
Global: Topics: 38,673, Posts: 229,771, Members: 3,327.
This forum: Topics: 37,076, Posts: 225,944.
Our newest member Jason
