07:49:37am, Wednesday, May 08, 2024
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Entertainer 2 crash at
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Earl Park.
Link [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: Entertainer 2 crash at
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Face in crowd
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Wow. Could anyone explain what happened there? Never seen anything quite like that before. |
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Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
The question that comes to my mind is why did the “Entertainer 2” come unhooked from the sled? There should never be a situation when the pulling vehicle breaks away from the sled. I realize that there is safety fuel/air shutoffs, however the vehicle should always stay hooked to the sled. Thank God that this happened with plenty of area to shutdown the “Entertainer 2” and hopefully no one was hurt. There still needs to be a better hook up system than what is in place now. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Anonymous User
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Where was this pull at? |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Face in crowd
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Lots of unusual things with this accident. The tractor didn't seem to bounce much before rearing up suddenly, the hood came up (how did that happen?), the tractor came unhooked rather easily it seems. Just wondering if someone in the know or with an educated eye could explain this. Is it a track issue? Some sort of malfunction? Human error? |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Maybe it would be worth the time and aggravation to have spring loaded keepers installed on the hook so there is no chance for it to jump out of the hitch. If it saves one life the cost and aggravation are worth it. |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Anonymous User
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Was the second hitch and safety chain used? |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Jeff Rogers
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Aren't the 2nd hitches used at the indoor pulls only?? |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Puller at the pull
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Actually the chain did not come unhooked his hitch got ripped off |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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looker ater
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THANK YOU !!!!
I thought I saw the TRACTOR hitch falling off/pulling away from the tractor. Everyone pointing at the deamon sled again, when it was a NON_Component tractor issue. Shhhhh, we can't be talking about old cast iron ripping away, and that maybe the tractor had been tied down to the pulling hitch and it got beat to death going down the road (Randy Rose). In the end, the main thing is, looks like no one was hurt. |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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ban them
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any body that has there hitch comeoff should be banned for at least a year. somebody could really get hurt bad because some puller did crappy work |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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2nd Hitch
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If the hitch was ripped from the tractor, maybe the outdoor events should look at using the second hitch. Most of the higher horsepower tractors run indoors and have the second hitch already why not use it. Front skies were added a few years ago for safety, limiting the amount of damage done to the tractors and to protect the fans from front wheels flying entering the crowd. |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Here We Go Again
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Here we go again.Anytime a puller breaks something,someone on here will say that we need to ban them for one year.This tractor has made more than one pass down the track and sometimes for no reason at all crap happens.The safety equipment worked and no one was hurt.In 40 plus years of pulling I've pretty much seen it all. |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 974 |
very good! crap happens |
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Re: I agree
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I agree
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Your right, lets not do anything until some body does get hurt.....good thinking |
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Re: I agree
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crazy
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So it passed tech, has lasted for a ton of hooks, and you want to ban him because it broke? it's one thing if you're obviously making it a safety issue by building it too light, but you're saying regardless of that ban them all? I'm sure you'd agree with that if it happened to you. |
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Re: I agree
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Here We Go Again
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So what do you want us pullers to do? Replace the drawbar and bolts every 10 runs? Every now and then stuff just breaks no matter how well it is built. I look my hitch over all the time and check the bolts for tightness.Over the years I've seen more than one well built hitch break.I've even seen sled chains break and some wild rides were taken. |
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Re: I agree
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Actual puller
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Again a puller want to be making comments |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Anonymous User
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ntpa does not hook two chains to the tractor like pro pulling does im glad hes allright that was heel of a wild ride |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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PPL rules for national and member state organizations is- "All vehicles are required a safety hitch. Safety hitch must be as strong as primary hitch and cannot be connected to primary drawbar. Safety hitch must be mounted eight (8) inches below primary on all tractors and twelve (12) inches below primary for all trucks." NYTPA, ESP, and East Coast I believe must do this- Why does NTPA not advance this safety feature? Just curious. |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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???
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Why cant we use a hook with the latch on it? Something like a crane hook. |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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wasn't the hook
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The hook did not come unhooked from the tractor, the drawbar broke off of it. |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Registered: 06/24/2008 Posts: 99 |
Just asking not pointing fingers but what about the sleds trying to kill the tractors all of a sudden he had alot of ground speed and then it looked like the sled came down and then the front came up. Iam just asking could setting the sled a daifferent way help as well. I have seen alot of sleds not putting the pan down till 250 ft. Seems hard to weight a tractor looks like to me. |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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WOW
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Have you ever pulled before? |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Registered: 10/08/2008 Posts: 70 |
well 1st off maybe the big Chalmers is making too much power! 2nd in my personal opinion the 2nd hitch that is in ppl rules will do 1 thing and thats cause whiplash b4 it breaks off with that slack in the chain. Just my opinion. 3rd I do agree with whoever wrote the sled setings has alot to do with it. I can unload you in a hurry and send you skyward been there done that. Look at daves danns pictures from the fort a few years ago. |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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OK,my opinion is this.do not paint the hitch at all,spray it with wd40 or wipe with oily rag to stop rusting that way it can be inspected at any time,there are chemical products that can be applied to check for cracks,without paint any defects can be seen,oblonging of holes,bent bolts and of course cracks,i am sure fatigue was the culprit here.the NTPA could or should use the safety hitch and go one step further by having the unpainted hitch for easy inspection as well.Perhaps the NTPA could do some R&D and have a universal hitch,one that has been tested over a thousand times or more at a force 5 times more than exerted by the tractor per class they are in,for example a superfarm that wanted to run in a prostock class would need the tested prostock hitch,instead of everybody make there own. |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Registered: 10/08/2008 Posts: 70 |
Its kinda hard to tell from the video but I think the sled had alot to do with this incident. |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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It Happens
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As a puller and a fan of most motorsports everyone has to realize that when you push things to the limits from time to time crap will happen. No body wants it to but at some point it will. If you don't believe watch a Nascar race or a monster truck rally and you will see it happens there to from time to time. The important thing is that we build things as safe as we can and thanks to the safety items we have in place things typically don't turn out as bad as they could. When this happens we need to take some time to look it over and decide if something could reasonably be changed to improve the situation or not and move on. |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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don't blame the sled. people always want to blame someone else come on, build @#$%& ,inspect @#$%& right and take safety to the level it should be. now smuggler lol what do you say to that lmao !!!! |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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It could have been much worse if he had stayed connected to the sled. The way he was getting out of shape befor he came loose, the rear wheels could have gotten into the sled then a roleover.
I broke a hitch that had been hooked 100s of times and the safty equipment worked. MACK |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Middle America
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The situation that unraveled in this video has a lot of information to quantify and examine.
It was scary to watch on video, but everyone there likely didnt have time to be scared, and therein lies the beauty of safety measures that work. What must be recognized is that the tractor died when the kill switch was engaged at the moment of breakaway, Good News; Second, lots of runoff area, more good news; No one hurt, maybe a pair of boxer shorts wounded, Great News. Pointing fingers at ______________________ serves no good purpose. Really no one is to blame. Metal fatigues and eventually will fail if put under stress. Maybe it's time hitches were certified and replaced after X number of years in service. The second hitch idea is good as well; whiplash though unpredictable in how it can affect the driver is a better fate than the potential outcomes. It is events like this one and the others that have occurred this summer remind us that this sport has the potential create harm for the driver and anyone thats close to the action. A second hitch, replacing the primary hitch at appointed intervals and creating a standard distance for acceptable runoff area are small things that make the sport safer. Everyone involved in this sport must accept that risks are there and if they were not the sport would look much like it did 40 years ago with regard to safety equipment. Probably the best thing to come out of this that more eyes have witnessed this than they could have 15 years ago. The video tells the tale in clear view. Chalk that one up to youtube and pulloff.com for providing a spot for people to take heed to what can and will happen in the span of a 300x30 stretch of track. |
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Hey pointer outer
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Where's the spec?
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I hope you are reading ALL of this. And not just what you want to see.
Good post Middle America. |
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Re: Hey pointer outer
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pointer outer
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yep, reading them ALL.
Even the ignorant ones that think the hook came unhooked. And I don't agree that sled settings had anything to do with the hitch breaking off the tractor. We do agree on EXCELLENT post by Middle America !!!!!!! Best one in this thread in my opinion! You DO understand the Entertainer is a CAST tractor correct? |
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Re: Hey pointer outer
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Hitches will break in Cast tractors and Component tractors. The frame rails and rear-end have no influence on the steel bar that the chain hooks to. This isn't a Cast Vs. Component issue no matter how anyone tries to spin it. It’s a steel bar with a few holes in it and all things will fail and fatigue in time or occasionally without notice. I also agree that “Middle America” has one of the best posts I’ve read in a while, thanks for the great discussion.
Personally I think the second hitch should be used at all events, indoor and out. Whiplash is a minor issue (I’ve had it). The second hitch will do two things, bring the front down quickly, and it will absorb some of the energy of the primary hitch breaking. Even if the second hitch fails it will still accomplish both of those goals. Hitches will break, hitch assemblies will break, chains will break, and the point where the chain attaches to the sled will break eventually. We can’t prevent all failure but it’s pretty simple to have a secondary system in place in the event that the primary fails. Everyone should have a second hitch, and almost everyone already does. It’s about time the NTPA used it. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Hey pointer outer
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There are numerous ways to check the hitch without replacing it every year. The aviation industry uses Non Destructive Inspection (NDI) extensively. This is an extremely reliable non invasive method to inspect for cracks or stress related damage not visible with the naked eye. Might not be a bad idea to have your stuff looked at every so often, die penetrant using a black light is pretty reliable but the best and most accurate would be Eddy Current or Ultrasound these methods can detect hairline cracks that are subsurface usually occuring in exotic or hard alloys like Titanium but they are effective on hardened steel as well. I know this might sound a bit over the top at first but I'll bet ya the Entertainer guys would choose it over the cost of rebuilding the front end and the hassle of a wreck like they experienced. Rob Bonino |
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Re: Hey pointer outer
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wrench
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It could be a cast issue if the hitch bolts pulled out of the cast rearend. A picture would tell all. |
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Re: Hey pointer outer
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Middle America
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Indeed E2 is a cast tractor with an extensive pulling history. To note how this is not a cast vs. component issue, we can look at the film from the first Southern Motorsports event in Murfreesboro when Bob Barbee's component NH had a hitch failure. Minimal runoff area in this case but a substantial sandpile at the end of the track. Once again, safety measures worked as the kill switch and sandpile did their job and that tractor pulls today. It may be important to note that these two tractors both went into a wild ride before coming loose, indicating that the hitch broke in a pattern that threw downpressure onto one tire until the hitch finally released from the hook, completely unloading one tire and putting the tractor off balance. If I were a betting person I would bet examination of the hitch on E2 would show that the stress and fatigue that made the tractor let loose was largely centered on the right side of the hitch. Had the hitch broken in a relatively even pattern the resulting rides would not have been as notable, they would have sent the tractors in whatever direction the front end was pointed. |
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Re: Hey pointer outer
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Registered: 04/15/2008 Posts: 35 |
I agree with the second hitch. If you are concerned with whiplash, a HANS device or something similiar will eliminate that. Probably not a bad idea seeing if the tractor suddenly dies and the sled slams the rear of the tractor, well, I think you get my point, we all have seen it before. I WILL NOT MAKE SHORTCUTS ON MY SAFETY!!! 125K on a tractor - whats another 800 on a HANS? |
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Re: Hey pointer outer
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Bruce Litton
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Well if you were to try to build tractors stout enough to stand up to tractor pulling every weekend without breaking, then you would end up with a tractor weighing around 25,000 lbs. or more. Sometimes parts and pieces will break, how much time are you going to allow to inspect that many tractors at an event. My .02, Bruce Litton |
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Re: Hey pointer outer
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ratdog
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So, Farmerboy70, can we expect to see your tractor at the next pull with a HANS device? Which tractor do you pull, anyway? Inquiring minds want to know. |
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Hey Ratdog...
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Registered: 04/15/2008 Posts: 35 |
Not that it matters anyway, but I haven't pulled in quite a few years, but I have been mud racing ever since. I am a fan of pulling and like to keep up with the sport. As I was saying in my post above, a lot of guys spend a lot of big bucks on their tractors (NOT MINE IN PARTICULAR!!!) so what is a few extra to keep their heads attached to their shoulders when the primary hitch breaks and the secondary catches? Is it really that bad of an idea??? My case, Dale Earnhardt who learned the hard way. I am just a STRONG believer in safety equipment and head and neck restraints. I went for one rough ride and got a sore neck. I bought a D-Cel restraint (Cheaper than a HANS but just as effective), went for several more rough rides, no more sore neck!!!!
By the way, WHAT DO YOU PULL?!?! |
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to middle america
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Where's the spec?
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Another good post! |
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Re: Hey pointer outer
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Where's the spec?
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I understand that COMPLETELY. |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Registered: 06/30/2008 Posts: 186 |
I understand the second hitch debate and think this is a good thread, and a great post by Middle America. It reminded me of Dennis Johnson and Shagnasty a few years back at L'ville. I saw the video and then asked him about it a few months later at an NTPA event. He said staring up at the rafters of Freedom Hall with his engine at full tilt was probably the scariest thing he's ever experienced. When I asked him how/why it happened, he said he was told by an official the guy hooking his tractor to the sled switched the chains, sending him skyward. Thankfully he got his tractor fixed and was able to run another day. Thank God for another forgotten safety feature...wheelie bars. |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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was there
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fyi they pulled the next day in northern ind so it wasnt hurt too bad |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Yes, he pulled the next day and won, then he followed that up the day after at tipton and won, They worked all night to make these HSTPA and RN events. Stuff just happens over time. You hook as many times as Al and John hook and sooner or later things like this happen. Its pulling. Scott Everett |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Both entertainer tractors have made hundreds of passes down the track. With that many hooks, by the law of averages, somethings going to happen sooner or later. Al and John are a great couple of guys. Glad they got her back to gether and going for the next couple night!! |
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Re: Why did the "Entertainer 2" break away from the sled?
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Anonymous User
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switching the chains will not send the front end skyward, the secondary chain is longer than the primary chain. ive seen them hooked backwards before (some events full of volunteer help will have mistakes) and it will pull from the secondary hitch not on the primary and the puller will only fry the tires and not go far... on the other hand if there was a twist in the chain making it shorter would make for a wild ride |
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