04:04:43am, Friday, May 17, 2024
|
Outlaw is no more
|
was there
|
Doug told the board that there is no Outlaw. It is his and he has changed the bylaws so that members have no say |
|
Re: Outlaw is no more
|
counter upper
|
Since someone is getting accosted for posting the TRUTH (again),
Why not report that all the extra entry money that was supposed to get Outlaws out of debt,,,,,, didn't work. And how come the debt to the insurance isn't ever reported? |
|
Re: Outlaw is no more
|
did they approve the finacial statement again ? this is the only orginization i know of that can give a finacial statement year after year and report being in the red every year and one year it is because of the t-shirt trialer then insurance and then something else !if all the people that are members ran their own buisness whether it is a farm or an insurance company or what ever the buisness is,no buisness can run in the red as long as outlaws have and keep going you would think they would look at the real problem and fix that |
|
Re: Outlaw is no more
|
counter upper
|
Can't get rid of the problem.
The problem OWNS the organization. B O D is a moot body now. The good side is, if it all comes crashing down, it'll only get the owner. |
|
is it real
|
wondering
|
what do you mean there is no more outlaws or what. or is there no more member run outlaws. how do you but something thats not for sale? what did the new owner pay for it? I guess i;ll just go and but walmart,, |
|
Re: is it real
|
reasonor
|
Who said anyone bought anything?
Just file the paperwork correctly, and, presto, it is yours. Besides, it is only that goofy Wallace fellow from Colorado that would be silly enough to actually PAY for a pulling "organization". |
|
Re: Outlaw is no more
|
Used to be...
|
Wanna know the funny thing.... The board just stood aside and let him take it over.
Well, not the entire board, but all of his supporter board members just stood aside and stuck up for him. Now he owns the board and all the spineless boardmemebers have nothing to show for their time and place on the board. Way to go guys! Thanks for your efforts and work Kavan, Longnecker, and Urban. Too bad the other board members, were just warm bodies and not real boardmembers. Hope they get a cut from Doug's new pulling organization.... Very disappointing! VERY!!! But everyone could see it coming excepts those boardmembers.... |
|
Re: Outlaw is no more
|
Posts: 508 |
So if it was a money losing Org.? then why are you anonymous posters so pissed that one guy apparently wants to have it for himself! don't like it? start your own group! that is if you have time to commit! |
|
Re: Outlaw is no more
|
Actually
|
The money problems came when Doug went into bed with USA pulling agaist the advice of the board. If I recall that was also when he bounced his pull check and charged his weddin on outlaw credit card. Then Bert jumped down and Doug and Goodwin got rid of her. Then Doug took over the check book and that is when the moneys went south
That is when the board should have stood up to him |
|
Re: Outlaw is no more
|
Posts: 744 |
He didnt start his own though. He took an organization that was "member" ran with member time and money, an event or events occurred creating a severe liability, lost non profit status, and then started his own LLC that now he operates under the old "member" owned assumptions, rules, bylaws, members, and using the same events as the old member ran outlaws.
If one could start their own Outlaw 3 llc and call all the promoters and pullers sign up pulls and collect memberships without either knowing that there is a difference from outlaw 2 llc, then it would be the same thing as the above happening. I don't care how or why just pointing out why this situation is different than disgruntled members going and starting their own org if they aren't happy with Outlaw 2. (all assumning its still outlaw 1) Seems to be a fine line here with right and wrong and the end justifies the means. |
|
Re: Outlaw is no more
|
asker
|
NOW would be an ideal time for Iowa Tractor Pullers to go back to NTPA.
It can happen, and could keep all ITPA events, would make a killer region 5. Just sayin' |
|
Re: Figure it out Iowa
|
Ntpafan
|
Well I couldn't agree more, now is an ideal time for Iowa to go back to NTPA. With the amount of pullers that Sibley attracted from Minnesota I think they had 23 super farms well that is just about the same as what Rock Valley had for an Elite National which is suppose to be Outlaws highest level of pulling and Sibley was only a Region 5. You make Rock Valley a Super National, and Hinton a Region III with maybe a Grand National Super Stock, Light Super Stock, Unlimited or Pro Stock class mixed in there I think that would be quite a show. Then you take all of the other towns Cherokee, Onawa, Moville, Hawarden, Carroll, Fort Dodge, Sac City, Tripp SD, Dell Rapids SD, Region 5 or Region 3 pulls and Wisner NEB a Super National as well you would never miss a beat. So yeah I always enjoyed Outlaw shows, I just think all the behind the scene crap is not worth it. Just my thoughts and opinions they don't really mean anything. |
|
Re: Figure it out Iowa
|
Pullmann22
|
Doug is nothing with out followers and pulls, if Iowa pulls out of outlaw and goes back to ntpa, all doug will have is maybe 3 NEB pulls and missouri, and everyone knows that doug has ruined many relationships will many missouri pullers/promoters and will turn into a state level LLC. BTW I would guarentee that Wisner will not be an outlaw pull next year since many of the wisner board members do not agree with doug and want an elite show, not a junior varsity pull. Don't be a follower, make your own decisions! |
|
Re: Figure it out Iowa
|
New Rules
|
Did Doug make any rule changes for his Outlaw pulling llc |
|
Re: Figure it out Iowa
|
Been there
|
All this crap about the Outlaws sounds like a bunch af keyboarders again. There may be some issues as far as the books, members etc, but they have alot of good pulls and classes. Take Limited Pro Stock, a great class with rules that may not be the best for some (BBJD), butlook at NTPA with there LPS, cylinder head rule, a bunch of bell sh--. So lay off the bad mouthing Outlaws, they ALL have problems! |
|
Re: Figure it out Iowa
|
Nebraska pulling fan
|
You are right about Sibley having 23 superfarms but some of them were outlaw tractors, take them out of there and then you have just another normal region show. |
|
Re: Figure it out Iowa
|
considerer
|
Well, if you take Outlaw out of the equation, they are all NTPA tractors then.
None of them were from Mo. In all fairness to Rock Valley, they were the same nights as Rockwell region 5 event. Both had good SF numbers. And then there would be a good DSS class too. There would be enough classes and tech people for two events on the same nights with different classes. |
|
Re: get a clue
|
Derek
|
Come on people. We wonder why tractor pulling is stuck were we are. We don't get corporate sponsors and we wonder why. You idiots get on this board and start spewing crap that doesn't need to be said whether it is true or not. If you were a CEO would you want to put money into a sport that says the crap that you people put on here. You all need to grow up and shut your traps some of the time. I would bet that if you went and asked the pullers that actually pull with the Outlaws and most all the fans, they would say they love the direction the Outlaws are headed. The Outlaws put a great show on and that is what should be talked about not all the negatives about the Outlaws. |
|
Re: get a clue
|
ihaveareallydumbquestion
|
Thanks Derek. Looks like you and I were thinking the same thing at the same time. |
|
Re: get a clue
|
Posts: 744 |
i agree and disagree.
yes there are some classless comments that do hurt the image of tractor pulling and organizations. But on the flip side 2 things sell in this country when it comes to advertising, sex and controversy. If it were Wrangler Outlaw Pulling. Wrangler would want as much face time with the Outlaw name as possible to get their return they invested. If the organization is doing everything right and putting out the image Wrangler wants then Wranger would have no reason to question their sponsorship. Message boards, fans, and pullers talking about all of the aspects like or dislike with the Wrangler Outlaw Pulling would just keep adding to the investment. Especially when there are no pulls to directly advertise to a fan sitting at a pull. There aren't major sponsors in pulling because there are way too many rules, classes, and organizations. Without a major circuit and the ability to sell a US wide product that is the same in NY as in Iowa, allowing more majors like TV time, major money will always be a shortage. Sponsorship is and always will be evaluated on cost vs return and pulling lacks the return and the eye balls viewing it. If you had an audience of million people each week someone would sponsor it. No matter the classiness of the audience, everyone has to spend their money on something. |
|
Re: get a clue
|
noticer
|
I also notice how cordial everyone is over on the NASCAR web sites, as well as the other circle track sites.
And the drag racing sites, I'm sure everyone on those sites gets together for lunch at least one Sunday a month!! NOT !!!!!!!! |
|
Re: get a clue
|
uh...AV ?
|
Have you ever heard of a gentleman named Forrest Lucas? Jus kidding, however PPL is doing everything the exact opposite of what you just said, so it can be done (sponsorship) !! PPL was on prime time CBS sports , plus they get sponsors for each class and use that to have the best purse in the world. |
|
Get a Lawyer either way!
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
First, I believe that Forrest owns PPL. If Forrest pulls out sponsorship it’s over. That’s a completely different business model than the other pulling organizations. Since Forrest has a vested interest I’m sure it’s a factor in his desire to find additional sponsors for his series. I’m guessing that a number of sponsors for PPL are from Forrest’s personal connections. PPL like all other organizations has it’s pros and cons but I don’t think it’s fair to compare PPL to member run organizations like the Outlaws was… is… was… um…
Back to the Outlaws… can I go register the business name Outlaws Pulling LLC (note the “s” on Outlaws) and go to a meeting and tell everyone I now own the “Outlaws”? Has anyone had a Lawyer look into the original bylaws of the original organization. Has anyone had a Lawyer contest the transaction. Has anyone actually looked to see if a transaction was actually made, and if so for how much and who to money went to. Registering a name does not give you ownership so it bears asking the question if Doug actually owns the Outlaws or does he just own Outlaw Pulling LLC? That’s a very big difference. If he only owns that name then there are some pretty easy ways to work around that. Let’s just take a hypothetical scenario: Lets say Doug Registered the name Outlaw Pulling LLC. Now lets say he actually also purchased the rights to the club. Lets also say that; hypothetically, a Lawyer can trace all the aspects of that transaction. Has that been done. Did Doug buy any of the previous debt? Or what did Doug pay for any of the assets? If there was debt and Doug did not buy that debt, who is responsible for that debt? Are the “former” board members responsible for the past debt? I hope that everything was done properly, and if Doug truly now “owns” the Outlaws and has abolished the board I wish him luck with it. If on the other hand Doug is trying to pull a fast one and pull the carpet out from under everyone then the people in the organization need to get competent legal representation. Either way… get legal representation and make sure the transaction was 100% legal. Make sure everyone knows the assets and liabilities and who is responsible for either. Here my advice to Outlaw pullers… sell one of your 3x3 turbos or your extra heads, get together and hire a Lawyer to examine the original bylaws and to examine the legality of the transaction. If everything is 100% legal there’s no harm no foul, and go pull where you want. If it’s not 100% above board then start legal action. If the member and the board don’t have a Lawyer look into all of this then they truly are the stupidest group of rubes to ever form an organization and they will all truly reap from the ignorance they have sown. I truly hope it’s 100% legal and a Lawyer can verify the transaction and someone can post facts and all this Outlaws nonsense of the past few years can be put behind us. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Get a Lawyer either way!
|
Tom Byers
|
Jake - I am an Outlaw member, and I don't really appreciate your comment "If the members and the board don’t have a Lawyer look into all of this then they truly are the stupidest group of rubes to ever form an organization and they will all truly reap from the ignorance they have sown."
I thought you were against name calling? I don't consider myself or my fellow Outlaw members to be a stupid group of rubes. I don't recall seeing you at the meeting this past weekend, were you there? |
|
Re: Get a Lawyer either way!
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Tom,
I stand by my comments 100%. Here are two options for how things went down: Hypothetical Option 1: If Doug has done everything 100% legal then there’s nothing to worry about, but they should still pay a Lawyer and make sure the club and it’s members are taken care of correctly. Make sure the liability for every single aspect of the transaction has been accounted for. That’s what Lawyers do. They cross the “T’s” and dot the “I’s”. The Lawyer will both protect Doug and protect the members/board from any liability that may have been missed. Hypothetical Option 2: Doug is trying to strongarm his way into assuming the ownership of the club without an audit of the books to show the assets/debt of the club. A Lawyer will quickly figure out who actually owns what part of the club and who owns the clubs assets/debts. A Lawyer will also figure out who is responsible for any debt that the club may have incurred. If it’s either option 1 or option 2 then a Lawyer is safe, cheap, and necessary insurance. Not hiring a Lawyer is boneheaded, ignorant, idiotic, moronic, etc… You don’t need to go to law school or be a Lawyer to have common sense. No, I didn’t go to the meeting. I was an Outlaw member about a decade ago but I’m no longer a member. Membership or not: I think the Outlaws are a great club with some great people and they have a ton of potential. They put on some great shows and have some top notch vehicles. They also need to protect their club, it’s members, it’s board, and it’s president. As for the name calling… the rule has always been that if anyone is going to say anything about a club, person, organization, etc… they put their name on it. I put my name on it and I stand by it. Protect your president, protect yourselves, protect your club. A Lawyer is a simple parachute for ALL the parties involved. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Who's got the money??
|
Not me
|
Who's got the money to fight this??not me.. Lawyers cost a lot of money.. How many pullers are going to pool their resources together and maybe lose their chances to compete fairly in their sport??? |
|
Re: Who's got the money??
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
I guess I'm a little lost on this part of your post. "How many pullers are going to pool their resources together and maybe lose their chances to compete fairly in their sport???" Are you saying that if you spend your money on Legal Counsel then you won’t have money left over for your pulling program. Or are you saying that if you hire an Attorney then you will some how be “Black Balled” from pulling with the Outlaws.
If I was a board member [former board member] I would make sure that I understood what, if any my legal/liable responsibilities were under this new management structure . I would have an Attorney take a look to see what liability I have. A group effort would not be to costly and in the long run would be money well spent. This is the time for logical and informed decision to be made. Not a time to panic and make bad decisions. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
|
Re: Who's got the money??
|
not me
|
you got it ....blacked balled and too poor to buy parts again... what happen to NTPA when they fought the sled suit,,, isn't it owned by somebody else now?? |
|
Re: Who's got the money??
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523 |
didnt watkins let it expire |
|
Re: Who's got the money??
|
I think what Dick is saying is, someone should check to see if Doug had the authority to disolve the old organization and make it a privrate company. I would assume that if the old club was disolved anything purchased with Outlaw money prior to this should be sold and monies divided between the membership or to pay off debt. Also who owns the debt of the old club. Can any of the members or board be held liable for this debt. I don't have a dog in this fight so it doesn't matter me but, if I did I would like to know if it was all legal. |
|
Re: Who's got the money??
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Thanks for the well written post, that’s exactly what my father and I are saying. It’s not only the debt and assets of the club that are a concern, but also the liability incase of an accident either on the track or in the pits at an event. Liability could become a nightmare and insurance just might turn their back if the ownership and status of the organization is floating in limbo. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Who's got the money??
|
You would think ( not saying it's so ) that any event held after say Dec '10 would be contracted by the Outlaws LLC. That should mean insurance would have to be furnished by that group and should exclude the Outlaws of the past. But are there any outstanding claims against the old group? If so how are or were they handled? Are there any judgements against the old group? If there are how are they to be handled? If Doug was as sneaky as everyone claims who knows what could be lurking in the dark. That's where Jake you are correct by saying it would be worth the few hundred dollars to see how legit this whole transformation was and are there any liabilities going forward. |
|
To Tom;
|
adviser
|
He only called any Outlaw members names IF you all just stand around and pick your nose and hope things get better.
Now, on the other hand, if at least ONE of you has the testicles to get a lawyer involved to check things out, no one is a rube,,,,,,,,, but rather an astute businessman. Your choice. |
|
Re: Get a Lawyer either way!
|
Court Reporter
|
Either Jake is going to law school, has a family member that is a lawyer or married into a family of lawyers. Or maybe wants to recomend a lawyer to use. |
|
Re: get a clue
|
Posts: 744 |
agreed Forest Lucas has done alot to bring money into this sport. |
|
Re: Figure it out Iowa
|
ihaveareallydumbquestion
|
With all this bickering going on, why would any new person want to try and build anything for any organization? |
|
Re:Ihaveastupidquestion
|
Registered: 07/20/2008 Posts: 727 |
Not to sound really dumb, referring to the first post, does that mean there is no tractor pulling circuit anymore or are they just going to call it something other than the Outlaw circuit? |
|
It's simple for u simple outlaw pullers
|
show me the money!!!!!!!
|
Not for profit = OPEN BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!
LLC- CLOSED BOOKS!!!!!!!!! DAH!!!!!!!!! |
|
Re: It's simple for u simple outlaw pullers
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Well said, see my post above about having a Lawyer look into the bylaws of the original org. If it’s a not-for-profit then the details of the transaction for Doug buying the Outlaws will have to (legally) be public knowledge and should have been presented to the members for a vote, or the board for a vote. Either way it should be public knowledge and a Lawyer can file to have information disclosed to its membership.
When that’s done we can stop all this idiotic speculation and either let Doug run his club as he wants, or let the member decide the direction of the club. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Re:Ihaveastupidquestion
|
outlaw puller
|
there will still be a outlaw circuit, it will just be called outlaw llc , to all the keyboard pullers Outlaws (and it don't metter who owns it) had a good year last year and had a good and noneventful baquet, and there is alot of new pulls for next year, and i will bet that both Rock Valley and Wisner will be Outlaw pulls next year, whoever is saying Wisner won't be, don't know what they are talking about. good job outlaws and when i say outlaws i mean Doug, the Board,Promoters, fans, and pullers, they are what make the Outlaws not a bunch of crybaby keyboard pullers. |
|
And there you have it
|
reader
|
Everyone is way too scared to look into it!
"They" want to go pulling SO bad, no one wants to upset the KING. Especially before the Kansas City pull! No one has enough testicles to do any checking. Kudo's to whoever was telling us last year that this is what was comming. I'm not a huge Doug fan, but I didn't believe. Now I am a believer! Every point that was made about how the wording was in the registration of the LLC, that is public knowledge, was 100% correct. |
|
Re: And there you have it
|
Posts: 64 |
The only scared people I see are the ones that are afraid to sign thier names to their post
If you want people to believe in what you say sign your name to it Mike Langan |
|
This is more than just about pulling!
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
So it really doesn't metter [matter] how the Outlaws became an LLC? Just as long as everyone has a place to pull his or her trucks and tractors. It really doesn't matter if the process was legal, ethical, moral? Lets just go pulling!
I’m not passing judgment on how the transfer of the Outlaws from a member runs organization to a LLC took place, that needs to be decided by the club members and legal counsel. It’s this opinion that’s it’s all OK as long as we have a place to pull and I get to hook my tractor that is upsetting. This view should be very unsettling to everyone that loves the sport of truck and tractor pulling. We spend countless hours complaining on how our government is going down the wrong path, how our schools are a mess, how every politician is a crook. And still people will come on this message board and post that it doesn’t really matter how it all happened, just as long as we can still go pulling! They will try and blame the “key board pullers” [some times called fans] the outsiders, the trouble makers, they will try and turn the attention away from what is happening and blame everyone else for the problems What a sad commentary on the state of truck and tractor pulling. This is more than just about truck and tractor pulling, this is about how we view and conduct ourselves as a motor sport. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2010 05:14AM by Dick Morgan. |
|
Re: Outlaw is no more
|
outlaw puller
|
Are you frickin nuts why would anyone want to take a cut in pay for NTPA crappie Region 3 payout |
|
Re: Outlaw is no more
|
Logical
|
Are you nuts? How long do you think towns can afford the inflated high prices of the Dougy followers. |
|
Re: Outlaw is no more
|
green guy
|
Okay, so I live in the heart of outlaw country and when they come to pull they put on one heck of a show. I have to say, the bracket pulling in the superfarm was good this year. That being said, how do they compare in price to the ntpa? When I started reading this thread, I was thinking, might not be bad having the ntpa back in town. The only thing is, for a fan in the stands, we come for a good show. Lots of iron, good smoke and a good show. Sure the dss might not have 15 or the best in the nation, but even the NFMS might have trouble getting everyone at every show all year.
So all that being said, what ever comes of it......to the pullers and the promoters wether ntpa or outlaw just keep the pulls going, I want to come, spend my money and watch a good pull. Thanks |
|
Re: Outlaw is no more
|
outlaw puller
|
The promoters don't have to take all the classes it's their choice what to have, most of them have done it long enough they know what they can afford and can't. |
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,771, Posts: 229,938, Members: 3,338.
This forum: Topics: 37,096, Posts: 226,027.
Global: Topics: 38,771, Posts: 229,938, Members: 3,338.
This forum: Topics: 37,096, Posts: 226,027.
Our newest member Jacklovik2009
