01:55:23am, Wednesday, May 15, 2024
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Re: Getting out
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Miffed!!!
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Yeah but...
I'll be the first to agree that anyone can spend their hard earned $$$ anyway they want but when it comes from the (not be discussed) federal farm subsidy program... then I do care!!! If you don't believe this is going on, just cut the program and watch the competitors drop like flies!!! |
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Re: Getting out
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Orange
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Now aint that the truth !!! Like they say, now days you can tell a big operator cause they have 2 mailboxes for GOVT CHECKS !!! Wonder what its like being on WELFARE ? City people laugh - have all that land tractors etc and still loose money and dont even pay taxes !!! At one time farming was a nice , independant living , now its far from that , just like tractor pulling it used to be fun + a game of ingenuity - now its a big money game with mostly WELFARE recipents taking the checkered flag ; something aint it ??? |
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Re: Getting out
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I'm one of them
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You are right. I own a large farm. .. Half of my income comes from subsidies. But I took it one step further. I figured I would go "all in". I pay myself a sallery that is very low. That way me and my wife and kids qualify for government health coverage. I also recently applied for food stamps. Now I get a check every month to buy groceries. And yes I do have a very expensive pulling tractor. And I drive a new diesel pickup. And I have a full lineup of new tractors and equipment.
Do I feel guilty. Heck no! Because I am the hardest working man I know. It is the consumer that makes farming the way it is. You don't want to pay high prices in the grocery store, so you just pay us with your taxes. I'm sorry but it's just the truth. |
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Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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IH Lover
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You know I was just going along reading responses about pulling and man I read the last few posts on this thread and man am I p*ssed off. I really wonder if these are the comments of actually farmers or not. I have a hard time believing that they are. Back in the late 90's and early 2000's does anyone remember what the prices were like. I remember corn under $2.00 and beans under $6.00. To top it off we had a couple years in there where we had average to below average yields. The only profit we made those years was the farm subsidy. That is the money that my family and I lived on during those lean years. People that know nothing about farming think that farmers take that subsidy money and pocket it. I hate to disappoint you but you do have expenses against it. Things like fuel, seed, chemicals, equipment maintenance, labor cost, gas to dry crop, electric, and list goes on and on. I go out every year and get a floater loan to buy my input products and hope that my crop is good enough to pay back the loan with the crop. We are coming off one of the worst years yield wise I have been through. The only thing that saved me this year was the price not the government money. If we were to trade places you would not make it five years before the stress would kill you or you would go under. Granted I am not a huge farmer. All told I farm about 2500 acres. I don't know how much payout these mega farms get. I can tell you this the bigger the farm the bigger the expenses. If farming is such a goldmine why do farmers make up less than 3% of the nation's population. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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Selid
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I'm a farmer, I have been a full time worker in town the first 25 years of my working life. I will say farm subsidies are a joke and should be gotten rid of. Farming is a business, just like any other business, if you can't make it work, it isn't a viable business. I don't farm with new fancy machinery, I have good used low cost equipment and do most of the repairs and maintenance myself. I drive an older dependable truck and live a fairly simple life. I love to farm and that's how it works for me.
I don't think I, or any other farmer, should receive money that comes from the tax dollar of the person making 7 dollars an hour working at McDonalds, or anywhere else. Next time a farmer pulls up to the drive through window, tell him your welcome for the truck payment on his shiny new Duramax. If this is a true concern of yours, and it should be, call your congressmen and let your concern be heard. We need less govt. and this would be a huge improvement to eliminate the subsidies program. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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Welfare claim
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I do find it funny how some of you say you go out and buy used parts used equipment used trucks and whine about how others buy all new stuff with "daddys money" and "gov chex" HAHAHAHA if they did not buy those new thing you would not thave used things to buy DUH!!!!!!! and to you who spent 25 years working in town during that time did you build you farm up with your job income? till it was viable to to do full time good for you IF you did it this way smart stratagy but there are others who jump in head first with no money and big loans to pay off.
As for "welfare" we are trying to get on state health care beacuse I am self employed and our insureance thanks to obama is going up to $450.00 a month for a family of 3 Why should I not use it I dont see you complaining about the innner city folks living on it sittin back with a 40oz and wathcing us work. If yer gonna complain about any one useing the system dont do it about those who work to feed those who WONT work....!!!!!! |
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Re: Hey I am one of them you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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pullinfan4255
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I'll bet that shiney new dmax is a 4X4 too, so you can remember when to work: 4 weeks in the spring, 4 weeks in the fall, and screw off the other 44! Show me 1 other form of small business that gets a check from the gov. to pay their operating expenses! |
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Re: Hey I am one of them you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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4X4
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Another farmer told me that joke last winter. It is so funny because it is true. I have also heard the comments when we have been on snowmobiling trips. Farming sure beats working for a living. Farming has a set of problems just like any other type of job has a set of problems. Nothing special or noble about farming. You farm because it is a living. A choice. Could be because your were born into it and don't know how or want to do anything else. Could be because you love animals or growing something. I was watching a youtube video that was a tv interview in MI. It was a guy I would say in his 50s combining corn. He said I love to farm because I like to play with big toys. There is alot of truth to that. |
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just curious.
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Registered: 08/24/2009 Posts: 27 |
To Pullingfan4255, What do you do for a living? |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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dear Selid......
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Highly doubt any of those folks earning 7.00 $ per hr serving you at the drive thru pay any taxes.  Just ask one of them the next time your @ the drive thru if they have ever wrote a check to the United States Treasury and see their reaction then report back to the rest of us "welfare farmers" . 
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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pullinfan4255
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WOW! Never had a REAL job huh? If you had then you would know that those taxes they don't pay come directly from their paycheck and they don't write a check to the gov. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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usda
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It is nice to see some of you complaining about this, just to see you have no idea how the program works. We don't make a living off the gov't, it is not that much money and by no way will it pay our input costs. Sometime when you are on the clock at your job do a www search to see where all that money goes. Guess we better eliminate all those jobs and all the food stamps then we can cut down all the national forests and farm them.
FWIW, we farm, we pull, we live comfortable and we don't have any of daddy or grandpas money. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 256 |
The biggest risk ever taken is the one no taken.
It is easy to have a job collect your check and go home at the end of the day and not worry about anything till te next day. Life is a gamble how much you gonna risk? I have risked it and almost lost it all I know I been there |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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pullinfan4255
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But with uncle sam there to bail you out how much of a risk is it? |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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mnred
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we would explain it but you can not understand.
I would be willing to bet that the insurance and seed cost on 1 acre of corn would fill your diaper. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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to mnred
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Seed corn for one acre (Pioneer HXX I bought in 2010) 79.20 per acre CRC insurance 80% (enterprise units) 8.26 per acre my cost, (the govt pays the rest of the premium to the ins company) another welfare program to the poor old farmer, hail ins on a combo policy is about 2 bucks a hundred so lets say another 12.00 per acre.
So thats 99.46 per acre minus your direct payment of lets say 22.00 equals 77.46 an acre. Fert cost nh3 550 a ton @ 82 % is .335 per unit x 175 58.69 P&K approx 100.00 Land payment 350.00 total 586.15 195 bua corn x 5.00 975.00 975 minus 586.15 equals 389 an acre for labor and machinery Do we really need the govt payment? No. Is corn always 5.00 No What in the equation is the one cost we can control? The land payment. For every one guy that won't pay big rent or a high price for ground, there are 10 idiots behind him that will. And when things go bad, they run to the govt for assistance in the form of a bailout, like the SURE program, and if thy don't get what they want they threaten to sue the govt for the payment. This is a fact and there was an article about it in a farm magazine a few months ago about this very subject. So if you want to call operating like this a viable business, I think you may need to seek professional help. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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Anonymous User
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yes you just summed up the bare of what we accually have to pay for.. machinery doesnt run itself... and i tell you what there are alot of people out of work out there... i thought it would be easy to find good help. but the people that are out of work are a few dead beats that are lazy... If you have ground that is the good wher eyou dont have to put as much fert. on like u say then let me kno where it is.. ill get every little bit i can. our sand here doesnt perform like yours does oviously... you also have to figure in the price to truck the product away.. the fuel in the tractors the payments on your farm AND the payments on machinery. not to mention drying the corn. then one of those "out of work" helpers that are SO good running the combine and grain carts over so your profit was just given away to the deer. you all are right we do get payments for the gov. but i tell you what i would rather give the money to myself and my local farmer neighbors then for support for low income housing, gov insurance people, and to bail out automakers and banks.. i am not saying that we work our ass's off some farmers do and some farmers dont but in the end i want the money that i am paying in on or i would rather give it to someone that deserves it. not indians, mexicans, and dead beat americans that need to be supported cuase they are too damn lazy to get a decent job... everyone thinks they are worth so much thats why they dont have a job... and those are my thought and opinions. they mostlikly arnt right but thats how i think with my operation. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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mnred
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funny thing, not only is your input costs lower you also carry a higher average than anyone else.
plus you seem to have forgotten a couple of items. How about equipment? did you work the field, plant it, spray it and harvest it by hand? do you run all "green" equipment that uses no fuel? what about the cost to dry the corn? this year was not much but last year we have 33% corn. with the amount of fert you are running and the average bpa you are getting you are a super farmer, I would have quit my job in town years ago and bought the whole country by now. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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Anonymous User
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you are correct MNRED... i am sure if i had that type of soil i would own the entire county and sorounding also! he is also a little low on his figures... last year i about went broke with my corn harvest ours was 35% and had to dry it down to 15..... i would bring in a semi load which i thought was 1000 bu. but i only ended up with about 500 bu. kind of hard to make things meet after that |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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mnred
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about the same thing here.
I wonder if he hunts of management land bought and paid for by the tax payer? I like the McDonalds parts, what about the Monsanto, bayer, syngenta, case/ih, john deere, massey, firestone, good year, the fuel guy, the dealers for all these companies etc. I would guess that what monsanto or syngenta pays in on taxes a year would take care of several McDonalds workers total salary. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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Not so Big Shooter & mnred
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You two yahoos are prime examples of what is wrong in the ag world today. 1000 bu of corn ending up
500 bu.?? Even at inflated elevator shrink, that corn would have to be 47% moisture. 47 - 14 = 33%x1.4 = 46.2% x 1000 = 462 1000-462=538 bu.???? You may want to try to match you corn maturity to your area, if your capable. You take you machinery, fuel, hauling ect. out of the 389.00 an acre figure. If your spending all of that on labor, machinery, oil, hauling, drying, gravel for the driveway, tile, fence, tires, maintenance, bookkeeping, you may want to evaluate your situation. Maybe you would be better off working in town. Why are your inputs so high? If your farming sand, you better not be paying 350 an acre for it or you just confirmed my point. If your buying it, and your payment is 350 an acre, and it doesnt work at that price, who was holding the gun to your head to buy it? None of your arguments constitute a reason for a govt. payment, period. I farm, pull tractors, live comfortably, but we don't need the govt. money. I didn't think I was talking to 1st graders on here, but if you want , I could go ahead and break the whole operation down for you. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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mnred
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.045X18 is the charge to dry 33% corn all around here, plus the shrink.
last year I had 89-92 day corn and it was over 30% yet, I guess I could not look into the future like you can to know that we were looking at 300 less heat units for the year. I also should have known that it was not going to rain. The problem with farming is clowns that think that how it works in their area should work everywhere, and the greedy ones that can not get enough. On the $389 and acre I am not sure where that figure comes from, but I would assume you are a super farmer that runs in the area of 220 bpa cause it says so on the yield monitor. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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Early corn Late riser
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When did you plant your corn, June? You say it didn't rain, so it must not of been too wet. Maybe you should look for a different career that you could get away with being a slow starter.
You could build a corn crib, pick it in the ear and get free drying. Probably too much work for you, I'm sure your busy signing up for the next bailout. I guarantee I'd do something besides give HALF away. No our corn was 196 this year and we are very thankful for that. Still haven't seen a good reason for a govt. payment yet, slacker. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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mnred
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So what would you do? I do not have a drier that is why I planted the early corn.duh.
I enjoy the fact that you can offer so much help to me without ever once letting anyone know just how many acres you run and how many were given to you. Also I would like for you to find where I said the farm plan is justified, I did not. If their is a government program that offers money to a farmer and you pass it up that is just dumb. Do you also double the amount that you pay in to taxes, that would be the same thing more or less. You sound like a barefooted millionaire, you think you are smart but you simply walk around facts because they get in your way. In the last 30 years I can remember exactly 2 times that we had dry corn out of the field, and the amount I put into the land is normal for my area and we do not average 200bpa, more like 170bpa on a average/good year. The amount of fert that you stated that you use I will not say they will not grow the crop you say, they will not do it for long unless you are really dumping it on the bean ground. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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tax payer
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EWG website says it all |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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mnred
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were is the link? |
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Re: pullinfan4255
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 256 |
I appologise for not saying I don't farm I own an excavating company ( no bailout here) and with the down turn in the economy it is just like a bad crop year for a farmer. I have learned alot from this economic time dont borrow so much pay crap off faster become more diverse. We have been fortunate from august on to have work but up untill july I thought it was over. I started with $800.00 to my name and my dad cosigned my first excavator loan I was only 20 and went from there I had help alongthe way through tuff times I have not done it all by my self. But I took a risk and thats why I have what I do and I know at any second it all could be gone.
A project manager on a job we are on has said to me several times. He took the easy road showup do your job (He does it very well) collect yer check let someone else do the worrying. There is nothing wrong with that mind set with out Employees We are nothing!! its sunday I am in my office WORKING as well as on here What I have did not come by my own doing. If it does all fall apart I am the only one who goes down!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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Anonymous User
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hey pullinfan4255 not much of fan because without farmers there wouldnt be any pullin would there so get off your high horse & the rich farmers dont need you at the pulls |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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pullinfan4255
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Wow!!! Tractor pulling began long before farmers were trading for new pickups and building new mansion houses every year, plus there are plenty of pullers out there they dont now nor have ever farmed, so i'm pretty sure that pulling could take place without farmers. As for my high horse??? Does the truth really hurt that bad????? Have you thought about being a pr rep for any of the major pulling orgs? I'm sure the stands would be packed with you in charge! |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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to 4255
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Alot of what you say is true and that is why it hurts sooo bad. You are taking it to the extremes and doing a good job frosting farmers here. Even you don't think they are all that bad. Some are. They always cry they can't make money. If they just did not complain and then flaunt what they have. I know a ton of farmers and I would say 15% are what I would call poor and 85% well off. I would not say rich, but live in a very nice house, new cars and trucks. All the toys too. Snowmobiles, atvs, pulling tractors and even boats. Thats fine. They deserve a living like everybody else that works, but don't wear one of those screw a farmer everybody else does hats then. Most live fairly well and work over the year I suppose about as much as the average person. Some abuse the system just like in every other walk of life. You are grinding on these guys though. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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pullinfan4255
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Thanks for the support. Many people just dont see this situation. I agree that about 15% of the farmers are "honest" farmers and aren't rich by any means. It just burns my butt to get up at 6:00 in the morning to head out to work when you drive by so many farm houses without even a light on, but come 9:00 the coffee shop is lined with farm tagged pickups and farmers complaining about how hard they have to work. I do get somewhat overworked about this, so I'll let it be but as some other posters have said no one has came up with a good reason for the farm subsidies. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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bullet 223
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pullinfan 4255,I don't know where your from but where I farm, from March to the end of July ,I worked over 300 hours ever month. August we slow down a bit, probably only work 200 hours. Harvest starts in September and its back to dawn to dusk and then some.We finished harvest,planted the small grains put on lime and fertilizer or what ever other field work you need to do and we finished up in mid November. Then somewhere in all of my spare time I try to run a business that is as tough as any out there. Oh, and I almost forgot,from the first of January to March I sit in the truck from 3 in the morning until I reload for the next day about 3 in the afternoon. I would be willing to bet there are alot more farmers like me than the ones you are driving by on your way to work. MOST FARMERS I KNOW RISE WITH THE SUN AND WORK UNTIL ITS DONE. Matt N |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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Registered: 01/28/2009 Posts: 95 |
To say that pulling would be just fine without farmers being involved is a pretty ignorant statement. Just how many seed corn companies, chemical companies, machinery dealers, agronomy dealers, etc. would sponsor these pulls and organizations if farmers weren't involved. Last time I checked one of the most notable winter pulls is at a farm machinery show and is sponsored by syngenta an agricultural based company. I do agree that there are a lot of other walks of life are involved in pulling but to say the sport would be fine without farmers is just pain dumb. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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Worry?
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Everybody worries about their job. You can get booted at anytime for any reason. That is why there is unemployment insurance. Like there is crop insurance, subsidies, and welfare. We have subsidies and crop insurance so farmers survive bad times like when somebody looses their job and has to go on unemployment. Farmers not being able to pay bills is no good for everybody down the line just like somebody else not being able to make their house payment. It effects everybody in some way. Just remember as farmer do not complain about welfare or unemployment insurance. As the "in town worker" do not complain about crop insurance or subsidies. All these programs are here for a reason. Keep in mind whoever you are, you are not better than anybody else. Some farmers cheat the system and so do non farmers. |
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Mickey D's folks are subsidized by uncle sam also!
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Registered: 06/17/2008 Posts: 137 |
If a fellow with a wife and a kid works at Mc Donalds, and makes 8 bucks and hour, he'll pay in 1500 or so a year in income tax, and get back around 3000 when he files taxes, EARNED INCOME CREDIT---free money above his deductions---i never minded him getting his money back, just getting some of the 10,000 my civil servant money my wife and I paid in each year---and congress wonder's why they can't balance a budget!!!! |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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To usda
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You say you don't have daddy or grandpas money, but I'll bet dollars to doughnuts someone has had to help you along the way, and that is great, but don't act like you woke up one morning and decided to start farming. Where did the first piece of land come from, did you buy it? with your lifetime saved allowance? was someone kind enough to rent it to you? How did you get your machinery?, borrowed 100 percent with no equity? We have all received help along the way to get to do what we love to do, farm. So lets not get to pious. |
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Re: Hey Miffed you are a complete moron!!!!!!
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Selid to Dear Welfare Claimant
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If the inner city folks were on hear, they would get no sympathy from me for sitting on their can collecting money for nothing.
Why do you think it's funny to buy used equip? I didn't whine about anyone buying new equipment. Just pay for it yourself. I mentioned the Duramax comment because it is a fact. At 20.00 to 25.00 an acre, on only 1200 acres, I think 24,000 would make a pickup payment, and more every year. With commodity prices where they have been for the last 5 years, and you can't make a go of it, without govt. money, I'm afraid your in trouble. I have had no problem making my land payments, op expenses, and so on. The money I have left is in excess of my farm subsidy payments. Your health insurance is cheap, whos the provider? My wife and I pay 600.00 a month for a 10,000.00 deductable policy. How in the world do you jump in headfirst with, I quote, no money and big loans to pay off.?? Kinda hard to get a loan with no equity. If you are feeding "those who won't work", who do you GIVE this food to? Get over yourself. Your getting paid for your products. A true chairitable man doesn't boast of his giving. Sorry I struck a nerve on the sensitive American farmer. Those that are running their farms as viable businesses shouldn't be offended like the welfare farmers. |
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Check out to see how much your neighbors "WELFARE CHECK" is
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[farm.ewg.org]
Check out that website to see how much "welfare money"your neighbor is getting from uncle sam.click on search at top right of page and take it from there.You can check any state,county,town,corporation or individual and see what they received and for what commodity it was for.There are several farmers in my area that have received over 3 million dollars from the subsidy program the last 5 years.Some of these farmers know how to "milk" the system just like inner city welfare people.Thats how they afford new pickups and expensive toys. |
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You have no idea
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Learn what you are talking about
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You must really have no idea anything about any of it. Number one all of you farming is not a small business. All of you who believe your above farming look back at your family history and someone in your family at one point was a farmer. With seed at 300 a bag and a bag does 2 acres on average, planting 2500 acres. Thats 375000 right there. not to mention fertilizer or weed or pest control. Then go buy a 400000 dollar combine to take it off the field with. Do any of you keyboard pullers make even close to that in a years time. More money passes through the hands of these farmers in a week than most people in the usa make in a year. The money granted by the government is given in a way that it must be used for operating expenses. Not tractor pulling. Things such as seed labor costs ect. I guess you have never heard of a tax audit. They have to prove this stuff. If it doesnt add up the irs shows up at your door and these investigators are not stupid. They have complete control of all your records for the past 7 to 10 years. This money is not being wasted and it is to keep this product in the usa and not boughten from overseas. It keeps the price low enought that people can afford to eat. Do some research before you shoot your mouth off. Most people on this site do not even have the ability to properly fill out a form for a government grant talk about use it improperly. |
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Re: You have no idea
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Miffed...
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Ok, that's one real good senerio but riddle me this. In now taking this discussion to the next level, and based on your "under control" description, then...
If the government has such thorough and ultimate control in knowing where all subsidy $$$ are spent, then please explain to me how a farm can first qualify for such funding if they already show enough budgeted $$$ on their books to go tractor pulling??? |
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Re: You have no idea
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learn what you are talking about
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Because the farms are corperations now. there is to much risk in losing personal property such as houses to just have a sole owner of the farm now. The owners of the corperation are the ones that own the tractors not the farm itself. The farm may sponser the tractor for a dollar amount each year which is no different than donating money to your local fair or a foundation for cancer. The people who run the tractors do work on the farm and get a pay check for their work. no different than going to a job at a dealership and bringing home a pay check. |
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Re: You have no idea
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...
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Well...
Guess that fairly well settles it. Sign me up for one of those corporations that have so much too lose that we have no other alternative other than to just keep throwing money at em. In the meantime, I'll go back to my normal (crappy) everyday job, slowly going broke till I'm bankrupt. Please also let me know at what net worth value (including risks) I need to be at so I can apply for some government funded $$$. I have to get on the "take" side of this racket rather than the "giving." |
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Re: You have no idea
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To Mr learn what you are talking about
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I think YOU should learn what you are talking about.
That statement of your sounds like one of the most uneducated generalized statements Ive ever heard. If a big corporate farmer is paying 300 a bag for seed corn, he best go back to school. If one 80000 kernel bag does 2 acres, that 40000 population, with pop planting like that and 300 dollar seed he's shooting for 240 bua corn x 5 bucks a bushel is 1200 an acre. He'll more than make expense at that level. FYI when we get our govt. check, they don't give a flying leap what it's used for, I get a nice little paper in the mail saying xxxxx.xx has been deposited in your checking account on such and such a day. You can buy milk duds with it if you want. Once again, no justification for the govt. farm money has yet been given. |
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qustion for sascha
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if the us ran out of food
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From what I have heard you guys treat your farmers pretty well can you explain thanks! Also if they close these programs then also they will shut down the oils programs also. To whitch they work together and then the farmers and oil men wont need banks no more! They will be the banks. I thought I heard if there were no subs there would be 15 dollar a gallon gas. Farmers are always blamed but make up the most jobs! (All of them) without a farmer your going to starve the one thing everbody does need but does not want to pay for food! But a new pulling tractor or play station you get the point. PS You got to eat! You dont half to play! |
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Re: qustion for sascha
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,151 |
You really want an explanation of the farm subsides in Germany?
I guess we have to get into the history a little, to understand why and how: After the middle ages, where the land was mostly owned by nobility and the church and the population had to work it under basically slave conditions (except for some "free" regions), farm land finally turned into private property and was always given to the oldest son. The other sons were basically kicked off the farm (and were lucky to find work on another farm - many of those moved to America) and the women "married away". Since "germany" as you know it today didn't exist and was dozens of smaller countries, and even until WW1 was splitted into several sovereign countries (and in a way two empires, Prussia and Austria-Hugray), there was different laws in each country. the "german tarif union" - which was a union of countries, duchies & free cities: 
While in the north farmers kept giving the farm away to their oldest son only, in many of the southern countries, the farm was split between the sons. You can imagine how small and poor the farms in several southern areas got over time. So - after two wars and total destruction of the country with hunger all over the place, you have the situation of a lot of little farms in the hills and mountains of the south, unable to gain much profit outside of being able to feed themselves, which right after the war could be considered rich, but already in the 50s turned into "poverty" compared to the rest of the rather quickly developing industrialized parts of the nation, which were short on workforce already by the end of the 50s. This more or less forced a lot of farmers to give up all over the country and work in factories. This led to a shortage of AG products (basically all over the EU) in the 50s. The then stated subsides program lead to HEAVY overproduction of AG goods in the 70s. They are now reducing - but from here on, you better read wikipedia - this is f... complex: [en.wikipedia.org] Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2010 12:14AM by Sascha. |
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Re: qustion for sascha
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c it with your own eyes
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go to this site. you can enter what state and what person and see all what they were paid. [farm.ewg.org] |
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Re: qustion for sascha
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Seen it w/my own eyes
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WOW! |
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Re: qustion for sascha
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yowza
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holy cow!!!!!! |
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Re: Getting out
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Anonymous User
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after reading all the things that have been said so far i guess there is no management involved in farming nor is there any marketing...just because city people sit there and read on the internet somewhere that corn is worth $5 doesnt mean that thats what every farmer sold it for. Many market their corn/soybeans ahead of harvest and not always for the top dollar, if anybody out there can tell me when the markets are going to top out i would please like their phone number and would pay them to be a marketer as would many farmers. In our area there was alot of corn sold in the $3.40-$3.80 range and now it is considerably more than that. and as for the wet corn last year we are in western iowa and had 110-115 day corn last year that was anywhere from 18%-25%, this year we had the same maturity corn that was 14%-16% planted basically the same time frame. and as for the old saying 4 weeks in the spring 4 weeks in the fall we are not large farmers by any means but im pretty sure that number should be doubled on both ends and i guess nobody has livestock anymore, forget about spraying, cutting hay, baling hay, working cattle, baling cornstalks and hauling the grain. |
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Re: Getting out
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pullinfan4255
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So by your theory then If I invest my entire retirement fund in the stock market and then the market goes to crap, the gov. should compensate me because I cant tell what the markets will do? Or if I built houses for a living and I built one to sell for profit and the housing market went to crap I should be able to still make a profit through a government program? As for livestock, I commend those farmers still trying to make a living raising livestock, but the majority of farmers in my area only grow corn and beans and hire their spraying out, and hire a trucker to haul their grain in. |
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Re: Getting out
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mnred
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I don't think I have been in an area where the farmers do not haul their own grain in a long time.
I hear about this constantly and I believe the best way to handle this is by getting rid of the farm plan, of which the farmer only gets a small part of anyway. just add it to the bill at the store, the way I figure it that way the farmer will not have to worry about his tax dollars helping to cover the costs. As far as the house, I would build several right now, I think the economy might shape up just in time and you could make a killing and if not it is pretty much the same as what the farmer is doing now, take a chance. |
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Re: Getting out
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bullet 223
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I guess what you elect to do is your businness. My point is this, most of us work long hours,pay for costly equipment and imputs and every spring roll the dice and hope to make a profit. What goes on in your neighborhood may not reflect ag in general across the united states.As far as gov support goes,it was put in place at a time when something needed to be done and it changes with the times. One thing you need to remember is that the farmers for the most part have little control over the markets,I wish we could. The programs were put in place to keep food prices down for the consumer.I have never traveled abroad but from what I hear it must help some. I think you work something like 30 days to pay for all the food you eat in a year including eating out.In the big picture what uncle sam pays out in farm subsidies is a very small amount of money and if it keeps you from relying on third world countries for our food then it may be a small price to pay. There will always be people that abuse the system, this will never stop, but thats in every walk of life.Im sure our gov has wasted alot more money on things that make alot less sense. One things for sure farmers will spend money,so im sure most of its put back in the economy,maybe its possible you even benefit in some small way. Matt N |
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Re: Getting out
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Posts: 744 |
that is very true, farmers spend their money in their communities and that dollar goes a long way to help alot of businesses and people in ag communities. The system may not be perect but at least the gov't farm subsidies help out alot more than just the farmer as opposed to alot of govt programs in place today. Neither my wife or I farm but she grew up on one and I have worked with many farmers and the majority are good honest people. |
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Re: Getting out
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hog farmer
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Could one of these big grain farmers explain to us why the Government gives the grain farmers all of the subsidies and excludes dairy, beef, hogs, produce, etc.? If these grain farmers need this money so bad why do they get paid for the losses years afterwards? I don't understand why people making minimum wage should have to pay for the farmers to do there job. |
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Re: Getting out
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mnred
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I don't know where you live but they sure do have them.
My guess is you are not a farmer and just want to whine about it a bunch. |
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Re: Getting out
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Posts: 508 |
So basically most of you are farming the government, and in turn the input suppliers and equipment companies set their prices to take most of these government subsidies away from you! man I love your free enterprise system you so much espouse! meanwhile our system of supply management, which the farmer produces enough to supply demand for a reasonable return without any government support! continues to be attacked as anti free trade by some of the same people that receive huge subsidies from their own government! nuff said now fire away! |
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Re: Getting out
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thanks 4255
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Guess I never thought about how I only worked 4 weeks in the spring and the fall. I'll think about that the next 3 months when I leave at 4 in the morning to haul grain. Guess I should buy all new equipment like you think we all drive so I won't have to work on it and get it ready. Guess all that "fun" time I spend in the office isn't work because I only work a few weeks a year. Guess I shouldn't worry about the river when it floods and I am at the end of my nerves. Yeah we have nice equipment, "no pulling tractor" but don't tell me there wasn't hard work and worrying and a lot of risk to get what we have. People like you make me sick. |
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Re: Getting out
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pullinfan4255
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What time do you get done hauling during the day? How many days a week do you run? Perhaps you should invest in another truck??? You know there are programs available to subsidise your flood insurance right? On average how many hours per day do you spend doing paperwork? I'm very curious as I would like to have an Actual estimate of how many hours are worked during the off seasons. I may be way off base here, I may be wrong, but until someone proves that farm subsidies are justified why should I admit it? |
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Re: Getting out
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Deere Hunter 1466
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I hear that crap all the time about 4 weeks in spring and 4 weeks in the fall, for my neighbor its more like 1 week in the spring and fall both. I don't go to the coffee shop like all the other farmers. I stay home and do chores every morning. For as long as I can remember I can not remember a day I didn't have something to do and I have been told I don't do anything anyway, grind hog and cattle feed, haul hay, feed hay, plant, harvest, I even load the truck and shovel the bin by myself, you get the idea. The only help I get is at planting and harvest, and I have even done that by myself. I'm not saying I'm a workaholic I just get up and do what I am supposed to do. I pull a Farm Stock tractor with my son and all the other cheaters for fun and stress relief, something I wanted to do for 40 years, if we win fine, if we lose tomorrow is another day. I drive better than average equipment that the Bank and I own and work on it as much as we can. So the next time you complain about farmers don't talk with your mouth full! |
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getting out
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I FEEL THERE IS MORE MONEY BEING WASTED BY THE LIBERALS OF THIS COUNTRY THAN A LITTLE MONEY GOING TO FARMERS TO FEED US AMERICANS AND WHOEVER. TRACTOR PULLING IS LIKE APPLE PIE AND IF THE SPORT GOES DOWN HILL SO DOES ARE ROOTS SOME TIME YOU HAVE TO SPEND MONEY TO KEEP THINGS ALIVE. |
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Re: Getting out
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Full Mouth
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You can take that full mouth crap and stick it. The farmer is just one part of what is feeding people. The rest of it does not happen by magic. Yes farmers do an important job. Just like everybody else with a job. Subsidies are important as a safety. The setup is far from perfect and many times not used the way it should be used. Yet the country still needs it. Like we need welfare, ss, and unemployment insurance. Most of the things said here are aimed at cash croppers or "farm managers". My opinion if you do not have animals you are not a farmer, you are a hobbiest. That may offend you, but too bad. I have never met a cash cropper that would have worked 2080 hours in a year. I know some do, but I have not yet met one. Just remember bad things happen to many good and hard working people. We all hopet never happens to use, but is nice that there are programs to help you in a time of need. Farmers always seem to think they have it worse than everybody else as do the "in town people". Somebody always has it better than you and somebody always has it worse than you. |
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Re: HYPOCRITS
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FARMER J
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TO ALL OF YOU FINE INDIVIDUALS THAT THINK THE FARMER HAS IT MADE YOU SHOULD REALLY THANK THE NEXT 50 THAT YOU SEE BECAUSE IF IT WEREN'T FOR THEM USING ALL THE TRACTORS THAT YOU SO GENEROUSLY ENJOY THERE WOULD NOT BE A PULLING SPORT  OH AND BY THE WAY THE ONLY REASON THEM PAYMENTS ARE IN PLACE IS SO THEY CAN CONTROL A LITTLE OF WHAT WE DO AND FOR NO OTHER REASON IF YOU THINK $20 AN ACRE IS WORTH GETTING BENT OUT OF SHAPE OVER YOU REALLY SHOULD LOOK INTO WELLFARE YOU MIGHT QUALIFY
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farm subsidies
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Anonymous User
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as to answer your question about why subsidies are justified can you name any other business that in the last 5 years the price of inputs has doubled and the producer of said commodity has no control whatsoever of the price that it is sold for? seed corn from $150/bag to over $300/bag, phosphorus fertilizer from $400/ton to well over $1000/ton, potash from $300/ton to well over $1000/ton, anhydrous from $400/ton to $900/ton, diesel fuel from $2.00/gal to $4.00/gal, this list could go on and on but for some reason some people just will never understand. not to jump all over somebodys numbers but were only getting approx. $14/ac., cash rent has jumped more than that in the past year. to whoever said that pulling could survive without farmers maybe should scroll down the page a little bit to the post about time being a valuable thing and how one pulling organization pushed back the start date of a class to work around us farmers. |
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Re: HYPOCRITS
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Registered: 01/28/2009 Posts: 95 |
If you guys want to go jump down peoples throats about free money why don't you go find somebody on welfare that gets food stamps. They get far more out of the farm bill then we farmers do. Over 2/3 of the farm bill goes to the food stamp program alone. The whole reason that we even get govt subsidies is basically for one main reason.. Information. The government wants to know everything about what you produce in your operation and the farm subsidies program is the way they get that information. |
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Re: Getting out
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Anonymous User
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yup i guess you are right pullinfan. looks as if you have got it all figured out, maybe you should be a farmer if you think its just sitting on your a$$ all the time and not working. I guess when we started farming i missed out on the gov't bailing our business out if we made the wrong decisions. when we sold corn for $2.50 and it jumped to $4 i guess i missed the line handing out the checks for that extra money, maybe in your infinite wisdom you can draw me a map or describe to me how i can recoup all that lost money. i think you should probably be thanking the local farmers for keeping the economy in the midwest from completely tanking and you should probably thank them for keeping the money flowing in many of these small towns throughout the midwest that make it possible for you to still have a job. |
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Re: Getting out
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We are a lost cause....
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I had always thought that most "farmers" were of a conservative mindset. Now I find out that they are only until you bring up "their" subsidies. If you can't hack it without help from Joe Taxpayer, well I guess it is time for you to find a new profession.
When will people learn that taking "free" money from anyone does nothing, but kill a man's pride and spirit? Apparently, there are quite a few in the country who lack both of those qualities... 
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Re: Getting out
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EVERYTIME THERE IS A HURRICANE OR FLOOD OR EARTHQUAKE THE GOOD OLD U.S. HAS AN OPEN CHECK BOOK TO FEED PEOPLE ACROSS THE POND I FEEL WE CAN GIVE A LITTLE WELFARE TO SOMEONE DESERVING IN THE U.S. YOU COULD PAY OFF THE NATIONAL DEBT WHEN PEOPLE HAD PITY ON HATI AND GAVE THERE EXTRA DOLLARS WITH NO PROMBLEM THE WORD FOR THE DAY ''''BUY AMERICAN'''.IF FARMING WAS EASY EVERYBODY WOULD DO IT, I DONT THINK WE WOULD STARVE TO DEATH IF CHEVY WOULD OF WENT OUT BUT THE AMERICAN FARMER GOES OUT WERE IN TROUBLE UNLESS YOU LIKE RICE FOR 3 MEALS |
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Re: Getting out
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American
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Buy American is the best thing I ever read on this page. We (mostly) are Americans. We should start acting like it. Take care and support everybody here and then worry about others. We give away our country a little everyday. Support all Americans. Farmers, Autoworkers, Teachers, Vets. Just think of all the people that have died in past wars to keep us free and so things could be better for us. That was WWII. Our parents, grandparents, and great grandparents did it for us. Now all we can do is screw each other and give it away to other contries. Be an American. |
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Re: Getting out
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One Way Out
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Like them or not subsidies are needed. We do not want all but 4 farmers in the US left. Then we will pay to eat. It would be like wallmart. When wallmart puts everybody else under their prices will skyrocket. It would be the same if we would let almost all farmers go under. This is one of the reasons health insurance has gone up so much. Say 15, 20 years ago health insurance was cheap for what you got. We had price wars. Companies loosing money, but putting smaller ones out. Now we have about 8 health insurance companies in the country left. There are more , but they are underwritten by the big 8. So the big 8 contols the price. If farmers all stuck together and the government did not step in they could hold everybody hostage for food. Like monsanto does. Big is not always better. Without regulation this is what you get. A free market economy can not work with monopolies. In the ag world seed and chemical companies are the worst. If monsanto sold tractors a 250hp tractor would be 1 million dollars. |
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Re: Getting out
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i thought this post was originally started a guy gettin out of pullin then A guy wantin to know where it went and what he was pullin said the d21 went to indiana then someone wanted pics and we just wanted to know who it sold to in indiana now its everyone whining and complaining when everybody it is someones chhoice to get into pulling it aint drug money so just get over it the agreements of this pulloff deal is no argueing and it seems everyone has forgotten. further more being a high schooler tractor pulling was a deal to keep us out of drugs an alchohol thanks jake still a good site |
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Re: Getting out
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Posts: 508 |
just sitting here eating my popcorn
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Re: Getting out
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IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO WE ALL HAVE AN OPIONION THATS BECAUSE AT ONE TIME WE ALL STUCK TOGETHER AS ONE AND FOUGHT FOR WHAT WAS RIGHT KNOW WE FIGHT FOR THINGS THAT REALLY DONT MATTER LAST POST ON THIS SUBJECT'''SEMPER FI'' LETS PULL TREACTORS. |
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Re: Getting out
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Wow !
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American, you are ON THE MONEY, my friend. Multinational c.e.o's would love to read this post.
Working class Americans at working class Americans throats. |
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Re: Getting out
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Me again
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One guy says we need subsidies, another guy says it's only 15-20 bucks an acre so no big deal, another says I work more than 4 weeks so I should get a subsidy, one guy has old machinery, so he should get a subsidy, someone else says the welfare system gets abused so he should get a subsidy, another says seed corn is high priced so he should get a subsidy, one says fertilizer is high priced so he should get a subsidy, another says the govt. controls me and my farm so he should get a subsidy, someone else feeds the world so he should get a subsidy, somebody only got 2.50 for his corn so he should get a subsidy.
Anyone remember when the farmers were not the wealthy people in the community. I do, we had to raise quite a bit of our own food in a garden, chickens, some beef cattle, maybe a few hogs, grew our own feed, corn, hay ect, Mother made clothes for herself and the kids, and hand me downs were plentiful. I look back at the old pictures and you see a lot of hard work and pride in the faces of the farmers of the past. Don't see many FANCY new houses or pick ups or machinery in those days, just what we needed to get the job done. But I guess farming has turned into a real VIABLE BUSINESS now, so I guess you need subsidies because you are so deprived of food and clothes for your family. I'm thankful I live in the greatest country in the world, I can worship as I please, no one is shooting at my house or me, yet, so I say Jim pass the popcorn. |
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Re: Getting out
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Well Said
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Exactly well said Me Again a true farmer is to busy working hard to have time for this nonsense. But now they call the coop to spread their fert, apply their NH3, spray their crops etc so they have alot of time on their hands to complain. They really do need their subsities when they pay to have everything done for them. Kinda miss the good old days when a farm family worked hard and the kids were right their beside their parents, it ain't cool to be a farmers kid these days. Gotta wear your seed corn cap backwards  pass the popcorn please!!
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