Confused My Opinion--It's all about time! November 27, 2010 01:58AM
I used to think that the biggest problem in the sport of pulling was money. Money being poured in, and not much is sent back into the pullers pockets. After talking to some pullers, they all said their biggest problem in pulling wasn’t money, it was time. While the cost is always an important factor it all comes down to time being the biggest issue. The pullers I spoke with are at the top of the sport in their respective classes, these are not the pullers that put money and time into the sport to be in the back of the pack. The pullers all had or have national championships next to their names. Holders of National points titles in the NTPA and PPL; they are the best in the sport today.

Thus, the problem is clearly this: The amount of time a puller needs to devote to pulling is time they could be spending elsewhere. They could spend it with their families, their work, and their church and community activities. Each of the pullers I spoke with has indicated that they’re either going to run a limited national schedule or possibly even run locally because it keeps them closer to home. To put it bluntly, in the interest of billing pulling as a family friendly sport we have made it unfriendly to the families that make the sport what it is today. The moment we started messing with family time and other commitments, we came to a critical moment in our sport and we’ve been sitting here for a while.

Additionally, we know that sanctioning bodies derive their income from hook fees and the number of hooks they can generate in a year. Spelled out, that is a goodly number of hooks that can be a day’s drive or more for the puller. This business model, while good for the fan and the sanctioning body, is counterproductive to pullers and their families. Two groups in the same sport with two very different needs.


While I said we were at a critical moment in the sport, a crossroads of sorts, I hope we recognize the 800 pound gorilla in the room directly related to time, diminished hook numbers. Diminished hook numbers = smaller less exciting shows = fair boards and promoters finding better ways to entertain their customers. It’s going to happen. Are there answers? Yes. Some people have already figured it out right under our noses.

I’ll be posting three options in the coming days.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2010 02:25AM by Dick Morgan.
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Re: Confused My Opinion--It's all about time! November 27, 2010 09:52AM
WHere I come from time = money

During the crises everybody had plenty of time but was short on funds (especially sponsors) - now with the freakin' economic boom in this country since the beginning of this year everybody seems to be too short on time to get stuff done, while sponsors are willing to spend again...


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
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Re: Confused My Opinion--It's all about time! November 27, 2010 01:07PM
Yeah dick you are prob rite seems like pullers r all over th place and there bein askd alot thier familys and kids and jobs are bein put aside hope ppl n ntpa see this
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Re: Confused My Opinion--It's all about time! November 28, 2010 12:43AM
I agree that we have to run to much, but the fairs and other stuff is a certain time each year and we have to pull when the fair is going on or what ever the promoter has going to get a crowd. no easy fix
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Re: Confused My Opinion--It's all about time! November 28, 2010 01:22AM
The 10,000lb class asked during the 09' season if they could start after planting season next year, and PPL has for the last 2 years since started that class the first week of July. Thats what sets that association apart from others IMO. Not starting a "color war" just explaining the facts and adding an opinion! Thumbs Up
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Re: Confused My Opinion--It's all about time! November 28, 2010 05:40AM
Dick i agree a hundred percent with you. But when you get to the level that some of these organizations are at you have to have some kinda idea what you are getting yourself into before hand. Another big problem i ve seen is alot of these shows are getting too expensive for these fairs to put on. I know insurance keeps going up but times are still tough in some places and fair budgets keep getting hacked every year. Just my opinion thanks for listening.
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Thumbs UpMy Opinion--It's all about time!--Solution #1Thumbs Up November 29, 2010 05:23AM
The idea that I’ve heard from several pullers is to breakup the pulling map into a “north” region and a “south” region with the dividing line being the northern part of Ohio. The idea is to have a point’s race in each region with 4 or 5 national events in places such as Tomah, Chapel Hill, and Jefferson City, etc. The pullers would garner points in their respective regions with the “national” events being double points events. And the top 10 points winners from each region would then pull in Bowling Green for the championship. Any event run after BG the points would carry over into next seasons points race. If a puller wanted to run in more events than his/her region offers they would be allowed to make as many hooks as those choose, with the stipulation that they are pulling for money and no points in the other region. A puller would be allowed to hook all they want but only allowed to collect points in their own regions.

There are enough vehicles in most classes in both the southern and northern region to make each class viable, with the exception of some of the smaller national classes that already have problems filling their numbers at certain events. These classes would pull in a more centrally located circuit. If pullers don’t have to run 1000s of miles to compete, each region will gain pullers that have chosen not to precommitte because of the time it takes to pull on a national circuit. More pullers will show up to pulls if they can stay close to home and still win a national championship by only having to make 4 or 5 national events.

The truth of the matter is, numbers are weak at the national level in several classes. Take the LSS class; there are plenty of tractors nation wide, yet the numbers at the precommitted national level is low. If the pullers could stay in their respective regions the numbers would grow to a respectable level. And lets face it, the classes that already have low number there is no “magic pill” to solve their problems.

In the next couple of days I’ll post option #2


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Thumbs UpMy Opinion--It's all about time!--Solution #1Thumbs Up November 29, 2010 06:23AM
in your option 1,would that make bg a lnvitational event
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Re: Thumbs UpMy Opinion--It's all about time!--Solution #1Thumbs Up November 29, 2010 07:08AM
Patches;
Sorry about the confusion. NO I would not want BG to be a lnvitational event, It is truly one of the greatest events if not the greatest event in pulling. I would still have it an open event, rather I would have Bowling Green be the site to crown the national champion. Largest crowd, largest pull, what better place to have your championship determined.

I want to also say that obviously that the 3 options that I have put together are, to say the least in a very rough draft. Thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2010 07:11AM by Dick Morgan.
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Re: Thumbs UpMy Opinion--It's all about time!--Solution #1Thumbs Up November 29, 2010 09:51AM
Could you please define "National Level", organization?
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Re: Thumbs UpMy Opinion--It's all about time!--Solution #1Thumbs Up November 29, 2010 09:57AM
JR;
I would define National Level organization as either PPL or NTPA. I used the NTPA as my model here, however either PPL or NTPA could be used. I think that you have to have a strong state level organizations to have 2 regions. PPL certainly has that with Ohio, East Coast, ESP, etc. As does the NTPA with their member states.
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Re: Thumbs UpMy Opinion--It's all about time!--Solution #1Thumbs Up November 29, 2010 10:21AM
My other question was if you divide the line at say on a East to West line with lets say Columbus, OH, now I want a National level event in say Southern Maryland somewhere. So that would put me in the Southern region. I am having a 1 night event, thats all I can afford, How many Western pullers in the Southern region would actually show up? Maybe all of them considering it would be for National points? Thats good, but I want the Light Super class and want to draw all I can to my event, unfortunately the Northern Region has an event that same night as me. Now I wont draw guys from Wisc. etc. even with a "Raised" type of purse payout.

Interesting concept though. It would be interesting to hear more feedback and other ideas. I just think scheduling would be a nightmare, maybe, though most events that already are or have been on the National schedule for years should not be a conflicting problem. New events would be the worry possibly, but that again depends on classes being had by the new event.


J R
Eastern Extreme Pulling
www.easternextremepulling.com
EEPPULLINGVIDEOS

Pro Pulling Magazine
Hook Magazine
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Re: Thumbs UpMy Opinion--It's all about time!--Solution #1Thumbs Up November 29, 2010 01:51PM
Dick-
Don't be goin and gettin all progressive on us! We like things as they are... stail, stagnant and uninspiring.Tougue Out Keep your potentially good ideas to yourself. I like driving all over the country to pull tractors for next to nothin. It's my way of helping stimulate the poor economy.Beer Plus, we HAVE made some advancments... you used to be able to build a tractor for 100k to go win 1k. Now you can build a tractor for 200k to win 1k... that's progress... and don't tell me it's not.Drinking And since it's still Thankgiving week... let us all be thankful for the single hook in Ohio on Tuesday and the single hook in Iowa on Wednesday. Do you think awarding bonus points for the most miles traveled is a good idea?
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Re: Thumbs UpMy Opinion--It's all about time!--Solution #1Thumbs Up November 29, 2010 03:36PM
Grinning Winking Cool


J R
Eastern Extreme Pulling
www.easternextremepulling.com
EEPPULLINGVIDEOS

Pro Pulling Magazine
Hook Magazine
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Re: Thumbs UpMy Opinion--It's all about time!--Solution #1Thumbs Up November 30, 2010 09:34AM
I like the idea of smaller stronger regions but I think having just two is still a pretty big chunk of real estate. My suggestion would be to go to 3 regions. I took a quick look at the map and I think it could look something like this:



Note: I am not trying to exclude anybody by these lines, they just are where the majority of the pullers are.

Throughout the summer, you have your three marquee events and low and behold one of them is in each of the regions. I think at these events, there should be some incentive for the top competitors to show up from the other regions (prize money, year-end points, etc) to increase the prestige of each of these shows beyond where they are today. Then at the end of the year, you have a 'super bowl' of pulling somewhere central. I can see the format being similar to that of the Ederle except for I would like to see more tractors and a multi-day pull. Perhaps you bring in the top three from each of the divisions and maybe the winner of member-state points and crown a champion at the end of the weekend. Perhaps it would be smart to make this an indoor event.

I think the stronger regional concept would accomplish the goals of less travel and would work well for the classes that have good numbers. These would include Super Farm, Diesel Super, Pro Stock, 4x4 Trucks, 2 wheel trucks, Minis and modifieds. Where it kind of falls apart is unlimited super, unlimited modified and perhaps semis. I think it would be hard to support these classes on even this larger regional concept. Perhaps these would remain similar to the way they are today with a premium (including travel money) to get these guys to come to your show.
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Re:BouncingMy Opinion--It's all about time!--Solution #2Bouncing November 30, 2010 02:23AM
As I have started before another option that would benefit the pullers is a schedule that not only limited every class to no more than 18 national hooks but also would allow the pullers to drop 2 hooks from their points total.

It first this seems unfair to the pull/pullers that have made every hook in their pursuit of a championship. However I believe that if you take a look at the process it still benefits a puller that has made all the events. While the puller that has chosen to drop 2 events from their points total they are still stuck with having all their remaining hooks count toward their total season points, the good the bad and the ugly! However the puller that has made all the events can chose to drop his/her bottom 2 hooks toward their respective points totals.

The win side for the pullers, promoters and fans is pullers that have breakage can now return to the point’s race after missing only 2 events. Thus assuring a greater number in the class from week to week.

After having talked to several pullers that had breakage they all stated that once you miss one hook you’re out of the points race and the urgency to return is gone. So why bust your butt to get back in

It is crystal clear to me that the process that is now in place in not working. As much as we/they want to pretend that it’s a good system, take a look at the points races in some classes you will see that if pullers that were out because of breakage could drop 2 hooks then the numbers would rebound to precommitment levels.

It mystifies me that a program that was considered good 15 years ago [10 precommitted vehicles] is still held in such high regard today. I have always been under the impression that “constant improvement should always be strived for”. In the motor sports entertainment world what was good enough 15 years ago is not good enough today. Pulling needs to always make constant improvement in their product.

The national sanctioning bodies need to start meeting the pullers half way in the rule, scheduling process.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2010 02:25AM by Dick Morgan.
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Re: Re:BouncingMy Opinion--It's all about time!--Solution #2Bouncing November 30, 2010 06:39AM
dick,what would you say draws pullers to the event.i can see where at tomah or bg it could be the prestige of saying ,i finished in ,whatever place they did,or just saying i pulled there.aside from that,would the draw be,just having somewhere to pull,or the points that would be earned.i can see a better turnout of pullers and fans if the events had some prestige to them,instead of just going to pull the vehicle.
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Hot My Opinion--It's all about time---Solution #3Hot! December 01, 2010 01:44AM
If the pullers decide to keep the same events and pulling map, the next option is to take the schedule out of the promoter’s hands and have a have a “master scheduler” that can schedule pulls in a more logical manner. As it is now a promoter wants a class and the sanctioning body just plugs that class into those dates. The promoters only know or care about their pull and their needs, understandable, yet not productive to the growth of the sport. As it is now the scheduling process appears to be a rather Hodgepodge mixer of what a promoters wants and the tradition of what the show has always had.

Hooks can be scheduled that will give pullers shorter driving distances and “off” weekends during the pulling season. The master scheduler can and should work off a map of the footprint in the pulling world . The schedule can be done on a more puller friendly manner with emphasize placed on location, and dates with the occasional weekends off for the pullers and their families. I’m not sure of the value of certain pulls that fall outside the range that pullers and their families want or need to travel. Some pulls that are still on the schedule are one-day/one hook events that used to run in conjunction with a pull that is no longer on the schedule.

While I realize that promoters are one of the most intricate parts of the sport, promoters also need to realize that if classes were scheduled in a more logical manner then the promoter/fan would benefit in the long run. More tractors would be willing/able to attend their events, which translates into a win-win for the promoters, pullers and fans.

And in the case of the promoter that just has to have a certain class and it does not fall in the “master scheduler” plan, then the promoter should have to pay a premium for these classes. If any class is in high demand for a certain event then a premium should paid to the pullers.

It’s time for a better procedure for scheduling the events. The sport needs a logical, fair and puller friendly schedule.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2010 02:29AM by Dick Morgan.
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Re: Hot My Opinion--It's all about time---Solution #3Hot! December 01, 2010 02:01PM
national pulling needs to consider doing SOMETHING that creates additional value for the pullers. Currently, there are three primary stakeholders in this "partnership"... not two (organization & promoter). The sport of pulling should always be looking at ways to make things better for the promoter, puller and organization. No, I haven't fogotten... it should also be looking out for the best interests of the FAN too. I didn't mention the fan, because truthfully, there really isn't a fan-base. SO... that gives the organizations, promoters and pullers something to work together on... BUILDING AND MAINTAINING A LOYAL FAN-BASE. Lets not forget the sponser either. They obviously have some stake in how this plays out.

These ideas are good... even if they are flawed and there are better ones. The botom-line is more effort needs to be given to making life "better" for the pullers. That may include more prize money but should never be limited to that. Lots of $$$$, some $$ or no money all stakeholders should be working at improving the sport. Until that happens the sport will suffer and not be what it could be... at all levels of pulling. Taking steps to address the LEGITIMATE needs and concerns of the pullers, like the issue of looooooong travel is step in the right direction.
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Re: Hot My Opinion--It's all about time---Solution #3Hot! December 01, 2010 11:53PM
If the National Pulling Organizations were really serious about promoting their sport to build a fan base, they might consider following in the footsteps of others who have been successful. Forget about NASCAR, NFL,NHL, MLB, etc. and look at something a little closer in class like, oh say, MONSTER TRUCKS ! I know i'm not the first to mention them and will not be the last, however in "my opinion" this organization has it all. They have worked their marketing strategies into the ground and it has worked. They have a fan base like no other due to their marketing theory which is to put their show in every indoor stadium in this country week after week after week all while hitting the little county fairs, auto shows, promotional venues at dealerships, and probably several other places i've failed to mention. They are everywhere ! I know the first thing most of you will say is it's a completely different stucture. Points stuctures, prize money, show payouts, this that and the other thing, but my point here is it's SUCCESSFUL ! No i'm not saying " when we grow up we want to be just like the monster trucks " but from a marketing stand point, maybe i am . If the pulling organizations are ever going to be a recognized force in the motorsports industry they need to get hungry ! Go after the market share in a manner that has been proven successful. Stop worrying about every location being " the SUPER BOWL of PULLING " , sacrafice a little stubborness, change the structure and make a few deals with the devil or whoever it takes to put shows on week after week after week, year round, and BUILD A FAN BASE ! A really BIG fan base that over time puts money where it needs to go, " into the sport of pulling " where everyone involved does " OK " Thank You Dick and Jake for allowing this space for " My Two Cents ".
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Re: Hot My Opinion--It's all about time---Solution #3Hot! December 02, 2010 09:37AM
i think keeping the pulling the same and using option 3 is the best idea,it is the eastiest for all the fairs that already have there dates for the pulls. let someone schdule all the pulls so the pullers dont have to run so much and let the promoter maybe get some new classes and still have there same weekewnd ,,
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Re: Hot My Opinion--It's all about time---Solution #3Hot! December 02, 2010 06:37PM
Here's another thought....Sounds like everyone has their thinking cap on looking out for the good of the sport.

Perhaps a "draft" should be in order, and what I mean by draft is just like an NBA/NFL/MLB draft, only the classes are the "players."

Example, and this would work in the PPL model as well:

In the NTPA product at the national level, we have the Super Nationals, BG, Tomah, and Chapel Hill. These events are excluded from the draft and their decisions are based on their buying power and desire to be elite events. They pick and choose whatever classes they want, no questions asked. They purchased the right to do so.

Having said that, the remainder of the Grand National events are pooled together and for simplicity's sake there are 20 events/locations. These promoters draw numbers by some means to determine draft slotting. Each class in the draft has a certain number of times it can be picked. Once a class has been exhausted of spots, it is complete and out of question for a pick, unless a promoter wishes to pony up Super National monies to get the class.

So, the scenario is this and because Im a huge homer for local GN events, I use Brandenburg as my example. Brandenburg's promoter has the first pick, and chooses LSS as its first pick, not a huge stretch here. Georgetown is the second in line, picks TWD as their first round pick, and so on. The rub here is that LSS is limited to 12 picks, and TWD to 15. So, in theory, LSS could be gone from the list of classes by the time the 20th promoter gets to pick.

But here's the deal: That 20th promoter decides he must absolutely have LSS. To get it they have to put up SN cash to get the class. Yes, it is understood that time is the issue that Dick has identified and he is correct. However, a certain ability to up the ante in the favor of the puller monetarily cannot be ignored.

What are the possibilities here?

1) The ability to lock in a select number of dates pullers are on the road and anything more than that it is made worth their while.
2) Because of the draft fans would potentially get to see a wider variety of classes from year to year. An event that may be Mod, FWD and PS one year might feature DSS TWD and SSO the next.


Those are just 2 advantages. I realize that there is one question here--what if all of the GN events want to buy in at the SN rate for a desired class? Well, perhaps a limit on the buy-ins, be it one, be it three, it has to be a number kept in mind to keep pullers wanting to pull and not burnt out from running up and down the roads.

This is certainly not the perfect answer; feel free to agree or disagree or interject an accompanying thought. Bottom line is that there needs to be a happy medium between meeting the needs of the promoters for the spectators and the needs of the pullers to not feel like they're running a marathon of sorts across the country from week to week.
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Re: Hot My Opinion--It's all about time---Solution #3Hot! December 03, 2010 12:11AM
Wow, interesting concept there Lively One. What I see happening is how many Promotors are going to want to pick a number, wait their turn, and then possibly not get the class(s) they want. Get ready Demolition Derby competitors, more shows coming your way. Maybe I am wrong here but I just see Promotors, who are spending the money to have your show at their facility, not wanting to draw a number to select classes for their venue. I also do not see it fair for certain promotors (events) get special recognition. Not fair to the other promotors regardless what event it is. It has been interesting reading these ideas though. Somewhere within all these ideas may lie a solution for all parties involved. I will say one thing I have seen happen though, a Promotor here had NTPA GN events for many many years and now does not because they attempted to dictate when he could have the show, which was a different date than normal and that promotor already has a successful event that weekend every year, so why would he change? Don't blame him. This is an isolated incident but could happen to several venues.


J R
Eastern Extreme Pulling
www.easternextremepulling.com
EEPPULLINGVIDEOS

Pro Pulling Magazine
Hook Magazine
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Re: Hot My Opinion--It's all about time---Solution #3Hot! December 03, 2010 02:31AM
it looks like part of the problem is 90% of the pulls are held on saturday,so a geographical circuit does no good because everyone has to go back home for the 5 idle week days.and the venues only host 1 pull per year,unlike racing which runs weekly shows,and when the big circuit comes to town it is a addition to the weekly shows.
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Re: Hot My Opinion--It's all about time---Solution #3Hot! December 03, 2010 03:26PM
JR it is a 2 way street. Which is worse, getting a class that you may not have wanted necessarily but with 10 plus entrants that put on a good show versus a class you want and less than 5 show up. I understand where youre coming from; I would think thin class numbers would make a promoter turn away and find other options though. "Special recognition" is also a form of capitalism in this situation. Who is to say that any particular event might belly up to the bar and go super national? When we're talking about bringing in a PPL Champions event or a NTPA GN, I would think that promoter WANTS pulling at its highest form and the demo derby is not an option. Also, too many events are tied to fairs for there to be another option, they already have the demo derby/mud sling/whatever in place on a night of the fair, pulls put the same butts back in seats for additional days of the fair.
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