Cube Limit for Single vs Twin Chargers November 30, 2010 04:20PM
Guys I know there are a few organizations/events doing this.. If you tried to keep the weight the same.. say 6000 or 6500lbs.. Diesel only.. no rpm limit.. If the limit were 510cid for a 3 inlet or 3x4.. what would be a comparable limit for twins.. would 310 cid, 3in atmospheric turbo be able to compete.. is that even close?? I don't know what kind of HP those small cube tractors are making?? (Guessing it should be more like 360???)
Just looking for ideas.. and to see what others are doing..
Thanks,
Bryan
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Re: Cube Limit for Single vs Twin Chargers December 01, 2010 06:24AM
There is a LLSS class in the Badger State organization that has a rule that you can run twin chargers if under 310ci. or single turbo if under 466 (I think 466 is the upper limit - somebody please correct me if i'm wrong). I know that 310 is the limit for twins, and it's a very interesting class to watch. I believe the weight is 6700#. Personally I'd rather see it at 6000 or 6200, but that's just me. If anything goes right for our team this winter, we might be joining that class next year with two chargers.

To give my opinion on the debate in your post - I think going 466/310 is better than 510/360. It's always fun to watch the old school, small-cubed tractors (Allis, Minne Mo, Duetz, etc.) play with the bigger IH and JD in a competitive class.
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Re: Cube Limit for Single vs Twin Chargers December 01, 2010 08:12AM
410 single turbo
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Re: Cube Limit for Single vs Twin Chargers December 01, 2010 10:23AM
426 single turbo
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Re: Cube Limit for Single vs Twin Chargers December 01, 2010 11:41AM
505 not another 466 please.
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Re: Cube Limit for Single vs Twin Chargers December 01, 2010 12:16PM
1. Engine must be the OEM manufacturer block for said tractor at the time of manufacture or factory replacement block. Engine must conform to clutch housing, transmission case, and tear end housing being used.
2. Maximum of 315 cubic inches (no tolerance) for twin turbocharged engines.
3. Maximum of 410 cubic inches (no tolerance) for single turbo-charged engines.
4. No larger cubic inch engines as produced by the manufacturer may be de-cubed to be considered legal. The only exception to this rule is if the factory replacement block exceeds the cubic inch limit - in this case, the engine can be de-cubed to the nearest legal cubic inch limit.
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Re: Cube Limit for Single vs Twin Chargers December 01, 2010 01:17PM
Thanks guys..
Looking at a few other organizations.. and from the few that posted.. most are 310 and 410...

Kind of why I was wondering how would 360 fit.. this would give the 5.9L cummins and smaller with twins.. (not sure how big) vs a 510 with a 3x4.. There are some tractors being built with the 5.9L already.. Allowing to cross manufactures lines..

We're just thinking out loud here..
Thanks again..
Bryan
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Re: Cube Limit for Single vs Twin Chargers December 01, 2010 06:25PM
My numbers were a bit off - sorry, but I'm glad I'm educated now. Thanks
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Re: Cube Limit for Single vs Twin Chargers December 01, 2010 07:06PM
the weight limit in badger state LLSS class is 6500#. i've seen both motors on a dyno and the numbers are very comparable.
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Too Big December 01, 2010 11:35PM
Please no more big CID classes. Smiling 410 is plenty big esp. in a light tractor class and has been proven it works. LLSS are over 1000 hp now, how much more do ya need? Plus, look at the variety...MHO.
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Re: Too Big December 02, 2010 12:49AM
I totally agree with you on 410 being big enough. There has to be a a place for these tractors , not all classes can or need to be 466. Brings in some different color that dont cost a ton of $$$$$$ to bore & stroke etc to reach the 466 classes. Plus if a guy wants to just bolt on the basics and get his feet wet he can at a minimal cost.
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Re: Too Big December 02, 2010 05:54AM
I understand giving the Cummins an opportunity but look at what you lose. You have added a ton of cost for & possibly ruled out the 310 Olly & the 301 AC. The 300 series IH & Deutz are pretty much going to have to run twins. I agree with the 2 posters above that the big engines have plenty of classes & don't belong in the LLSS - that's my one complaint about the OH, TN, KY version of LLSS rules.

To the original question - if you apply the 315/410 ratio to 505 you get about 390. With a 3x4 you get diminishing returns as you go from 410 to 466 and bigger so the 360 twin vs 505 3x4 might be fair.
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Re: Too Big December 02, 2010 06:04AM
So 410 if its green, and 425 if it harvest gold, and 426 if its orange, the the red ones will be oh, say 282. Sounds like a plan. I left out Blue ones, as they get enough greif on here , with a turbo 4 banger.
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Re: Too Big December 02, 2010 07:43AM
410 isn't good for green. Heads don't flow well with 4.25 bore.
Does anyone know of a 404 Deere that competes with ford & IH @ 410?
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Re: Too Big December 02, 2010 07:55AM
Yes Darin Hynick out of Iowa JohnDeere 4010 called Possessed runs hard has 404 cube motor
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Re: Too Big December 02, 2010 07:58AM
What about the Mannheim block, would it be any better at this displacement?
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Re: Too Big December 02, 2010 08:21AM
We just had a deere win points in Bstp LLSS, Ed Kasper did it. It ran very well all year.
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Re: Too Big December 02, 2010 10:50AM
ed did very well this year but its not a 404 block.
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Re: Too Big December 02, 2010 08:33AM
the deere head flows just as good as any other motor with 4.25 bore. besides big flow bench numbers do not always translate into big horsepower numbers. too many other variables.
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Re: Too Big December 02, 2010 12:41PM
There's other IH diesels besides the 282. Is anyone playing w/ a twin charger setup on a D310 German, or using a DT407 w/ a single big charger?
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Re: Too Big December 02, 2010 02:09PM
not in badger state the only red guy uses a 360 I'm looking in on maybe running a 407 for that class but won't be done until late 2011 or 2012 if I do it still dragging my feet on what to build right now. the 407 as you know takes alot of money to build.
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Re: Too Big December 03, 2010 03:37AM
I wish some would try a 312 twin in IH ,my tractor was build as a 410 cube, its easy to work on, just need to keep updating to make it run stronger. Hopefully I can make a little more noise in 2011 in the Bspt llss class with that red one
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Re: Too Big December 04, 2010 01:33AM
an IH 312 twin setup is being built as we speak. plans to play in badger state in 2011.
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Re: Too Big December 05, 2010 01:05AM
You said it. Please don't let cubes screw up a great little class. Afordable,full of color, and fun to both watch and be a part of.
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Re: Too Big December 06, 2010 12:34AM
Everything you said is correct except afordable.
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Re: Maybe.... December 21, 2010 02:17PM
Guys, thanks for the responses... In the entire state of TX there really is only one diesel tractor class.. (except the 3 times a year the outlaws come to town.) the current class is called Hot Farm... 466 cid, 4000 rpms, GT42, 20.8's or 24.5's at 9000lbs. This class has really started to come around this last year with some nice tractors out there..

There is another organization that is thinking of adding a class, and was wanting some ideas.. I don't know if anything will happen, but thank you for the input..
Bryan
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