06:55:50am, Monday, April 29, 2024
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ITPA Rule Change
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What were the rule changes in the 9500 pro farm that has caused tractors to go up for sale. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Anonymous User
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9500 pro farms will now be allowed intercoolers and 3000 RPM's |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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That will be the end of the 9500 profarm. They might as well not even offer it as a class at Springfield, Because they will only have five tractors at the most.... |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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I hope you include us in your 5 because we will be making a few of the closer hooks and definitly the state fair. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 781 |
allow bigger cubes |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Anonymous User
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ITPA 12 profarm already has unlimited cube's is that big enough? |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Mine is for sale too... I will get an add up when I get more time. We just got done putting a cage on an now more expensive rule changes. I was unable to make the meeting so I didn't get a vote so now I won't be pulling. The vote was 8-6 in favor... 8 votes for 5 tractors and 6 votes for 5 tractors... With two votes against not there including me.. I blame myself. 5 tractors wanted it 7 tractors didn't.. Again my own damn fault. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Hey Lenny, its not your fault! Its the fault of people that don't have a clue for what they voted for! That class was supposed to be the entry level class in the ITPA. But they took it and turned it into a class that is almost just as expensive as building a lim. pro! They thought it would add color to the class. But all they did was eliminated anyone from building one from scratch to come and be competitive in AN ENTRY LEVEL CLASS!!! Instead of looking at the class as a whole, and trying to come up with a way to bring pullers back, and let new people come join and compete. No, They just killed it. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Puller 50
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Just because they added intercoolers doesn't mean you have to put one. Also, it doesn't take much to get 250 rpms |
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puller50
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past supporter of the ITPA
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You have no idea what is going on here. |
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Re: puller50
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puller 8675309
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There could have been a good 10 tractors in the class for the summer of 2011. Instead they want the rules for a select few that cant understand that there are rules in place for people that want to go faster/more RPM's/be cooler in other classes. The ITPA already has 42 classes to go pull in and there is room for everyone to be happy. (maybe)
The numbers they will see will be maybe 5 tractors at times probably more like 4 consistently. The class will be on "probation" for a LACK of tractors just like the 12 pro farm is at the moment by the end of 2011. |
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Re: puller50
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past supporter of the ITPA
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"PROBATION" ? LMAO And the ITPA board did that themselves to the 12000 profarm. I think the 6200 twd trucks (over glorified mini rods" need to be on "probation" because I am tired of seeing the "same ones". ITPA, you have REALLY done it this time. |
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Re: puller50
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Sameole
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This is the same thing that they always do, have a few guys that want more an instead of them moving up they change the rules and kill the class. 12 farm was fine for ten years until the started jacking with the rules and now it is almost dead. So now that the two farm classes are done limited pro is the entry level class, good plan. Pullers get tired of spending and spending, they just made those guys drop a wad of cash last year and here they go again, notice they don't do that as often to the classes that have member on the board. |
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Re: puller50
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question for itpa
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i have a few questions for you guys and am not trying to be a smart a$$. one what was the wad of cash that they made you spend last year. and two why cant you just not run the coolers? and change the rule back next year. i also dont think the profarm class has been a cheap entry level class in 5 years. because from what i have heard there is nothing cheap about a 3 inch inlet charger |
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Re: puller50
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thatspoint
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Thats exactly the point! It wasn't a three inch turbo class before. With the reducers that they used to run a 1500 dollar turbo was just as good as an expensive one. Since they have opened it up that is out the window. Last year they had to buy turbo's and all the safety equipment. Half of the people that voted for the turbo rule in the 12 had no intention of buying the safety equipment and pulling the following year anyway. |
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Re: puller50
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puller47
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First, nobody should ever complain about safty equipment, it only takes one person getting hurt then the rule change seems pretty cheap. Second, I doubt if anyone runs a 3 in, but they are spending almost the same money for a 2.75. |
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Re: puller50
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Ummm... I know for a fact most of the guys in the class are spinning 3" compresser wheels! |
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Re: puller50
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wasn'tcomplaining
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Wasn't complaining about the safety equipement, just saying they had to spend money on it with no say in the matter. And on a side note before the changes when they had less power and went slower it wasn't as necessary. The size of the turbo isn't that big of deal either it is the fact that they increased so that everyone had to buy a new one. And don't say well you don't have to buy one or put the intercooler on, well that is true and you could pull an NA tractor in the class too, as long as you don't mind losing. |
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typical
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puller540
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Same thing happened to 75 mods.. Class is toast |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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seen it happen
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Same thing happened in the profield class with ECMTP. They're just another limited pro class now, as if they needed another 466 class! Went from about 17 tractors down to 6 if that tells you how expensive that class has gotten. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Man This isn't even a farm stock class anymore. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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deere up
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No its not a farm stock class like it should be and used to be. I pull in the class and its not anywhere close to fun the way it was 5 years ago when i watched it. Now its a money eater for something that should be cheap and fun for that class. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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sd
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If your running in a class with 10 other IHs you have a choice-----spend money or cheat to win---doesnt reallymatter what the rules are!! |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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uh huh
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Heck Miller ran a business into the ground, why wouldn't he run a pulling organization into the ground. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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plr
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Guys its tractor pulling, it doesnt matter if its garden tractors to pro stocks, people will spend money to win. Any class will move foward, a pro stock 15 years ago is a super farm now. If a person has a limit on spending and if its less than the top guy he has 2 choices, spend the money or be happy where he is at. From what I gather, this is a class for a red tractor, a cooler would change that, more colors the better. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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hey there plr
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I am sure that it's going to increase"numbers". |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Please explain to me how a cooler will help with color?? I know I'm pretty dumb, so please enlighten me.... |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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puller 8675309
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oh yes lets put coolers on! that way when the class is dead all of the tractors can stay in the shed. Man that makes alot of sense! How about they leave the rules alone and quit changing them and then it can still be a sensible class. There are 5-6 tractors they could have pulling with them but they wanted to change it so i guess it will be like all the rest of the classes in ITPA a 3-4-5 vehicle show and everybody can go home by 8pm. i'll guarantee thats what the crowd wants. HAHAHA. If they left the rules alone the 95 pro farm could be one of the "bigger" numbered classes that the organization and one of the must supported by its members but lets cut it from what could be a 10-12 number average down to a 4-5 tractor average because of coolers and see how the class stays around. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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hotfarm
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After reading all of this i don't know how the rule of innercoolers got voted in if most guys don't like it. Sounds like to me all of your members should have went to the meeting and voted. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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deere up
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look at the limited pro now. Thats the way the 95 used to be, but wait and see itll die off to when they start changing things. Its too new right now for changes but just wait and watch the numbers drop like rocks. As for putting coolers on its not that big of deal and no it will not bring numbers up any. Want to build a new tractor save some money and go limited pro right out of the get. Want to just play around illinois hot farm stock has 3 good classes to pull in. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Farm Stock
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I want to the meeting and the intercooler and rpms were talked about. They were going to talk to the board and see if this is something that they would like to change. This Does Mean That It Will. Personal I dont see what the big deal is. The is all red class with a Ford and maybe a AC next year. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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color
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The fact is that when the class orginated it favored a red tractor because of its shifting ability, any non red tractor will say the same thing. If a cooler can be added and the shift can be eliminated everyone is on a more level playing field. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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The new rules are posted on the website... Go read them and see what they say!!! Coolers WON'T add color! The class had color yrs ago. I think there were 4 deeres, 1 AC, and 2 fords. So what happened??? I know, but do you?? You guys seem to be smart people, so tell the world what you think went wrong??? |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Abe
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Don't intercoolers help the life of the motor? Why would you not put one on to save the life of the motor. Commen sense would tell you that anything that could save the life of a motor would be a good thing. Motors are not cheap. I know that not everyone is in favor of them, but think of how much money you could save over the years with the intercoolers that help keep the motor cool in the hot summer days. Yes, it probibly does give you alittle bit more power but that is because your tractor does not get so hot. THINK ABOUT IT.
Abe |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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outsider
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This is better than Days Of Our Lives!!! Intercoolers make more horsepower because they cool intake air. Cooler air less dense can fit more in cylinders when it heats up you get more of a bang ie more horsepower. I don't see how they they make engines live longer? |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Anonymous User
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three tractors are for sale already one is mine four more wont pull because of rule change it wont be hard to get in the top five next year |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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curious
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who is for sale and who isnt going to run? |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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hotfarm
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So how many peolpe where at the meeting if 7 tractors don't want the innercooler???????? |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Anonymous User
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cooler air means you get a charge with a higher density i.e. higher mass of air in the cylinder per unit of volume. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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deere up
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tractors that are for sale from itpa 95 pro farm are spoiled all d time ih966 lewis wurth, len kirby ih who didn't even pull this past year, and baumgarten ih1066, kozuszeks old farm stock. sharp, strong running tractor, would be a great buy. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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curious
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I think the spoiled tractor has been for sale for a year or two. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Lewis's tractor has been for sale for several years. Two haven't pulled for awhile. Sounds to me we have one crybaby who's selling. And you call that the death of the class. Get real! Go pull with the new United group. Anotber idiot will fit right in. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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deere up
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i would know if they have pulled or not and yes wurths have both pulled in the itpa pro farm the last 2 years. In 2008 they were # 1 & 3, in 2009 they were 10 & 11. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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In the crowd
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All I know is that setting in the stands this class looks a red farm stock class. This gets old |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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deere up
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look harder at the limited pro class 98% of them are red to. must be good strong tractors that alot of the itpa guys pull them red is all around come pulling season. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Innocent Bystander
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Some people are really missing the point. If you are really interested in running a competitive tractor, you are not going to just bolt on an intercooler and turn up the rpm. If you are determined to really win the points you are first going to by an intercooler, then you are going to check with your engine builder if there is going to be a better cam for the extra rpm (now you buy the trick of the month for that) then you are checking with your cylinder head specialist(now you have the trick of the month cylinder head) on to the turbo charger(now you have the latest turbo charger) then we are calling our pump man and guess what!!! Now you just made a mere $2000 dollar piece of hardware cost a competitor somewhere in the $12-15k range. In 90days the same people who voted this in will be going, "wow that cost me more than I thought."
And you people who think it's just $2k for a cooler. Yeah for just the cooler, now plumb it up, by your pump to circulate it, etc; Bottom line if you don't do your own work, it is going to hit you for about $5k-$7k. Don't fool yourself, you all know better. As far as bringing color to the class, how many Deere, AC or more Ford owners were in the meeting saying, "I have my membership today if you allow this hardware in your class."???????? If they weren't in the meeting saying they were turn key ready to go. Real life tells you they are NOT going to be built. Now the piece de resistance, this move strategically will let the board do away with one of the Pro Farm classes. The numbers will be low enough in both classes that they will say "we are combining the classes. You both have intercoolers and the 95 has extra rpm to compete against the big inch 12k tractors and everyone will weigh 10k so that these certified cages actually meet the specs that they are rated for." And when it is all over, the competitors will sitting on tractors that can only be used in one part of the world because they are far enough away from anyone elses rules that they won't be able to get thier value out of them due to the money that would have to be spent to get the tractors competitive to run in other associations. When all that comes down everyone that voted for all this extra hardware in both classes are going to say, "gee didn't see that coming." |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Observer
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Some of what you have said is correct but.... most of the tractors in the class probally have the pump that is needed, some might have an 8600 series, according to some above posts they already run 3 in turbos, I cant see a new cam for 250 rpms difference, they have a ta that is unreliable and I would guess costly to replace, and all the safty equipment, and as far as other associations most of them in illinois already run similar rules.
just observing |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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deere up
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Observer, you're right illinois does have a new class that started last year. 11000 hot farm with illinois hot farm stock pullers association. i pulled in it a few times to try it, and it was pretty good. i pull in the itpa and with what we have to do now will go right in for that class. Plus in that 11000 lb. class you can have water injection also and cube limit of 650 or smaller. so a person could run both leagues their membership is only 100 or 150 for a year. alot cheaper and no one is at each others throats either so far. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Innocent Bystander
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Yes there are some associations where the rules are "similar" and I have seen some of those tractors run in the other associations and they are "competitive" but being "competitive" isn't always good enough. Changes will still have to be made and that change will cost money. We all know it. So if you are buying a tractor, do you buy the tractor at the price that the owner is asking and sink more money into it to win. Or do you go looking for the tractor already set up for it. A tractor owner isn't going to sell his equipment short because they know that it doesn't fit other associations rules and a buyer wouldn't(if he is smart) buy a tractor at full price that he was going to have to update. The owner of the tractor is (a) take a more than usual serious hit on the value of the tractor or(2) have a very expensive paper weight in his shop.
People have to remember, it doesn't matter how much money you have wrapped up in something(tractors, trucks, boats, motorcycles) the value of the item is only as high as what someone will pay you for it. I wish good luck to both of the PF classes in ITPA. They have both been around long enough to be the "track builders" or "time fillers" that the organization needs to make a show out of 2 Mod tractors and 4 Pro Stock tractors. In the end, if a puller wants to pull he should really have a place to do it and hopefully someone to give him a chance. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Your Right
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You are right about the cost. But you forgot about the back half of the tractor. Now you need a heavier clutch, diferent gears, and who knows what else won't take the added horsepower. Build it on the front half, break it on the back half. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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to hmm
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I know what went wrong. Out board brakes was the first thing. Then it kinda escalated from there. You prolly know what and who I am talking about too. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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old puller
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u said it all right their !!!!
dont forget how the super farm class started its death we let 3 x 4's in and it started a war who was the big pusher with that ?????????? |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Yes intercoolers help to save an engine!!! They are probably the cheapest insurance package for engine life you can buy! To my knowledge there are no 200+hp farm tractors built today that DON't have intercoolers. Why are they on there you ask? Because manufacturers want power and the engines have to live out of warranty!! You guys that are so against them might as well be pulling 2-bangers. Intercoolers have been in common use since the 1960's. I can't believe a technology that saves parts has taken 50 years to gain acceptance in tractor pulling and yet people still don't want them??? I know most people have no idea what really goes on under the hood of their tractors, but on most single turbo pulling tractors the intake temperature is over 600deg F! That is half way to melting aluminum pistons already. By adding a intercooler of the proper size it is easy to get the temps down in the 100deg F range. If you don't think that cooler air won't help keep from melting pistons, cracking heads and burning up valaves then you are very mistaken. Will an intercooler add power? Yes!! But that is easy enough to fix if you don't want more power in the class just cut back the size of the turbo and the power remains the same and the engine and turbo will live a longer and happier life. Intercoolers can be bought off ebay for $250 that will work fine on a 60psi hot farm. Has anyone ever melted a piston in a hot farm?? I am guessing that problem that most likely would have been avoided with an intercooler probably cost a lot more than $250 to fix even if using junk yard parts! I think Intercoolers should be allowed in all the classes they are cheap insurance against engine failures from heat, they are proven technology in common use on farms for 50+years, and they are dirt cheap compared to what most pullers spend on turbos pumps and injectors. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Look guys! A man with a brain! Thanks KTA. Couldn't have said it better. It's funny that there was 12 tractors in the class but at least 20 people have posted. And I see that hardly any of them are even ITPA members. Moral of the story is Shut Up and mind your own business! Bunch of wannabes. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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outsider
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I hate to sidetrack this but intercoolers making engines live longer is just eating me up!! So Deere put no intercoolers on their smaller tractors 4455's, but they put them on the 4955's because they wanted the same engine to last longer in the higher horsepower tractors? Intercoolers were an answer to (supposed) free horsepower by cooling air making it more dense. But they eventually figured out that ambient air temp (70 degrees) coming into an engine was better than air which was supposed to be cooled by water (190) degrees didn't really make any gains so hence the air to air intercooler was born on today's engines. This wasn't to make engines last longer it was to increase horsepower and efficiency. Am I the only one seeing this? Now I am not an engine builder or nor do I hold a engineering degree but with a general knowledge about the modern combustion engine it seems obvious? Sorry just had to get that out, now back to the rule change. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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.
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your ambient air temp of 70 is before the turbo. Pressure makes heat, intercooler removes some but not all, longer engine life. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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pro farm puller
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I pulled in pro farm class for years used to be alot of fun lots of pullers. now there are a few pullers pushing for more horsepower since they can afford it. This was a beginner class so that the not so rich could pull in a class above the county farm pull. I am not the guy that likes to beat up on the farm tractors. I would like to pull again but I can not afford the new rules that have been put in place. I would like to know why you would make the rules so close to a LP if you want to pull a LP move to that class instead of screwing up a good class that had alot of pullers |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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Innocent Bystander
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My response to inercoolers making an engine live longer would be, let's ask someone in the 12k PF if the intercooler made thier engine last an extra season or two??? Using the longer engine life as a reason for the intercooler is like using a literal translation of the Bible let your neighbor know that you are absolved of sin because of the way you understand Paul 3:16. I don't think that there is a 12k PF competitor that has gained anything but horsepower from the intercoolers.
If you take a realistic look at the 12k PF in ITPA after the adoption of intercoolers you can make that the bench mark of the downfall of the class. Argue with everyone all you want, the intercooler may have originally been engineered in the production world to make more horsepower and add more life to a motor but in the hi-performance world it serves one purpose, TO MAKE MORE POWER!!!! All you do when you are lowering your air temperatures and all that other vodoo that everyone that is for intercoolers is trying to use as an excuse is giving yourself an opportunity to push other areas even futher, fuel, timing, blah, blah, blah and you are making more power. And anytime that you add more power and more RPM you start to take away from the reliability. I think there is a place for intercoolers in pulling. There are already classes that allow them and if a person wants to run an intercooler then build your tractor for that class. I personally believe that this is a situation where the board dropped the ball and did not look out for what was best for the class or the organization. They are going to lose memberships and down the road lose bookings for the class because of it. The whole organization loses out. I can't say that with a straight face. The ITPA board is fully aware of what they are doing. They are trying to kill one of the PF classes. It is just a more crafty way of doing it. This is more just more humane than what they did to 4wd and what they do to Garden Tractors and Mini Rods. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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nobody
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As far as the 12k, the intercooler didnt kill that class, they didnt allow coolers you could always have them, no cube limit hurt that class. As far as the 9500 pf these guys had 5-6 tractors last year, with another 1 or 2 making maybe 25%. What i find funny, any other time the 9500 has been talked about on this board in the past its all negitive. Its either a all red parade, of a run down and kill it class, or to bash itpa. Now they have changed up some rules and now everyone thinks change is bad. I hope they stick to their guns, will be a good class to watch. |
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Re: ITPA Rule Change
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KTA
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No you have it wrong they put intercoolers on 4955's and not 4455's because 4955's run more horsepower. They run more horsepower because they run more fuel and more boost. What more boost means is HIGHER temperatures. The intercoooler just reduces those temps back to what the 4455 is seeing. The intercooler is to make the same engine last the same amount of time while making more power. If you take the intercooler off and leave the boost and fuel up it will last LESS time. It is common for guys to turn 4430's up to 200pto hp and melt pistons in the process pulling field choppers. There are plenty of 4630's turned up to 200hp and they live. Why do they live when they are the same basic engine??? Because they have a intercooler!! The advantage to air-to-air intercoolers is you can drop intake temperatures to below coolant temperatures. I gurantee that if you measure the intake temperature in the manifold of a 4455 at full load it is well above the coolant temperature. Even little 6000 series Deeres have intercoolers on them now as they are pushing 120+hp out of 4 cylinders. If you don't believe an intercooler will save your motor then bring me your 4955. I will turn it up and we will put it on the dyno at about 350hp for a few hours to make sure it is in good shape. Then we will take the intercooler off and run it again at the same load. I bet it won't last a day before a piston swells melts and tears the skirts off of it. I know I deal with this stuff everyday in the real world, sure its not 300ft at a time but the principals are the same. If you think intercoolers making more power is a problem then again you need to reduce the inlet of the turbo to get the power back down to pre intercooler days. It isn't rocket science to do that and it ABSOLUTELY will be easier on all the parts in the engine. Reducing intake temperatures and decreasing exhaust temperatures is always a good thing for engine life. I couldn't pull any current 6 cylinder deere tractors in a farm stock even straight from the dealer because of the stupid no intercoolers rules. Even the little CNH tractors have them so they can't pull either. Why can't I pull a true farm stock modern tractor in farm stock?? Because most farm stock pullers want a class for 966's and 4430's and other cheap 70's technology, anything newer should be banned because the technology is better and the antiques can't compete with them. Around here I can't even pull my true farm 6030 with its whopping 200hp even for the fun of it because it has a intercooler. Instead I end up pulling against 8000 series tractors and trust me a stock 6030 wants no part of a stock 8530ivt!!! Oh well its just for fun. :-) |
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to all who aren't in itpa
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deere up
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I've been in the 95 pro farm class for 4 years now and yes there have been some changes. #1 reason for numbers dropping was the 82 lp. alot of the guys went to it because it was new they had the money for something bigger. As for me i'm staying with the pro farm classes because the money isn't there just bought a house and wouldn't go bigger anyway. # 2 the ones that had 2 tractors sold the farm stock and stayed with the lp more expensive thats why they sold the farm stock. Change isn't always bad it's what ever the person that has a tractor in that class wants to do. Not up to the people that aren't itpa members to decide and bad mouth. So what gotta put coolers on BIG deal. Deal with it or don't pull and stop talking trash about everyone. Pulling is a sport should be fun not everyone in each others throats like everyones been! |
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Re: to all who aren't in itpa
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well said
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very well put, the numbers started dropping when the rules were at 2500 rpms and inducers. Had 2 JDs sold in that time frame, those 2 tractors came back for 1 year, had troulble competing and went to another association. The class lost about 6-7 tractors when the LP class came out, only got 2-3 of those tractors back. |
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Re: to all who aren't in itpa
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Anonymous User
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after the intercooler is on next comes bigger turbo faster gears more breakage the top runners in the class are still the top dogs nothing changed |
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Re: to all who aren't in itpa
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looker
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After reading what has been written on here it is apparent to me the fans do not
have a clue as to what is good for this class. Solution is to not place the winners of a pull. (no first, second or whatever) Divide the purse up equally for each puller or let the pullers vote whom they want to win that pull. ITPA could even draw finish places before pull starts and thats what would be announced to us clueless fans. I think the powers that be only want four or five participates per class. ITPA should know us other clubs, groups, misfits, or whatever like it when ITPA charges huge fees to the fairs and festivails. We can and will provide more tractors per class at a fraction of the cost and very little of the drama. Maybe it is time for a traveling pulling show that owns all of the tractors or rents them and owns the sled and gets one money for the entire show. If the show owns the tractors sled there will not be as much breakage, they can all run 25 mph because the sled will be empty. Gps can stop them at the predetermined distance. You say this cannot happen If one looks closely this is happenning right before your eyes. There used to be a show like this, I am sure they refered to it as a Circus or is the ITPA in town? |
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Re: to all who aren't in itpa
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I was not at the actually meeting but was in the building before for the sign up. Had to leave for other obligations. Got wind of the rules situation and was sick that I couldn't stay. We informed several board members including the board member that ran the meeting what we were going to do if the rules went through. The roll cages and ski's were the reason we didn't pull last year and not because we didn't want them... even though we didn't..... It was because we didn't get it done. Was fully intending to pull last year in the 95 profarm. I finished 5th in points in 2009. Was one of the best years pulling i've ever had. I love the class the way it was. With coolers you push the hp and torque numbers passed that of the LPS. Believe me i'm sure it would be a fun ride i'm a gear head too... But, for me to make my tractor to even a 5th place points tractor with those rules would cost $15-17K!! Straight shaft, bigger turbo, re oring the head, maybe some head work, girdle the block (you guys forget about that? you will need it if you add that much power), oh yeah and radial tires... Then add the cooler. And this after last years rules changes that was pretty substantial $$$$$$ I want to pull my pro farm for a few more years but with a price tag like that to compete I won't do it. Plain and simple. If the 5 tractors that are willing to do it, do it fine it will be a 5 tractor class. But if we can get these rules changes removed before a tractor goes down the track there WILL be at least a 10 tractor average. If the tractors that want coolers stop pulling because the rules are changed back (I don't for see that happening with all 5) there will still be a 7 tractor average at least with maybe some more coming back. Here is some more numbers for you... The year I started in the 9500 farm stock at the Illinois state fair there were 17 tractors. That was the first year of the 3" turbo rule (fyi mine is not 3" 2.82") I was competing with the old 2.75 hx50 turbo. The next year it was down you 13-14 I don't remember for sure (lost a few to the 3" rule not LPS because that had already happened) This year there was 9. Lost those to the cages. We WERE going to get 3 of those back for this year untill the rules changes. I'm not saying I can run a full schedule but I will go where I can and will be at most. The cages put it on life support the coolers have killed it... I have pulled ITPA for 16 years and my dad has for 23 seen a lot of rule changes this is not a good one. |
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Re: to all who aren't in itpa
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number cruncher
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Boy your numbers I thing are a little high. The class had an average of 5-6 in 2010, 8-9 in 2009, and 7-8 in 2008, these are all numbers estimated by the point totals (tractors making more than 1/2). By the way all red 1 ford. Dont think the 3" ran anyone off, 75% of the tractors dont run 3", the last 3 point winners didnt. The safty equipment cannot be questioned. The question is if no rules were changed what would it take to be a top 5 tractor next year? I doubt if leaving it the same is going to cut it. Probaly new turbo=$3000-$4000, radials=$2000, head =$2000, ta=$3000? Everyone wants to win, it sucks that it takes money to do that, but thats tractor pulling. If someone doesnt want to or cant spend it, then they should be content where they are at. |
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Re: to all who aren't in itpa
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actually did it with some out of date parts... Am going to do some small engine mods but nothing drastic.. just update some... under 2K.. no radials.... Torque is good still.. .two full years since i've had it no problems(may break first pull never know).... Those were State fair numbers not seasone averages but could parallel each other some. |
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Re: to all who aren't in itpa
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i'm glad itpa stepped into the present. to put a cooler on will be 2k max thats complete if you do it yourself. it won't be that big of a horsepower change. but it will improve your tourque. safety equipment.........gotta have it, it's probably the insurance companies pushing that. you guys put coolers on maybe you just won't run down and snuff 'em |
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Re: to all who aren't in itpa
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I have run lots of big truck aftercoolers off 855's and 3406 cats on pulling tractors. Most junkyardds will sell you one for $100 and they work pretty good for a 3" power level. You don't have to go buy a $2000 pretty aluminimum spearco to be able to compete. If this class is truely supposed to be a beginner class go to a box stock 3x3.4" S400 you can buy them for $700 or less they work good and can support over 1000hp. Box turbos are absolutely the best way to control power and costs on any class and I think any class that is intended to be entry level should have them. Now any non entry level class I think it should be all fair game and run what you brung and hope it is enough!! If you all are worried about the power getting to high with the intercoolers bushing the turbos to 2.6 and that will keep the top dogs under 1000hp. that will also keep boost in the high 30 low 40psi range and I am certain that will be easier on parts than the high 50's/low 60's they are probably running now with 3" no coolers. |
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Re: to all who aren't in itpa
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Much$$$$
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Anybody got any idea how much jack all them guys selling want for tractors they r selling. Think i guy could buy and make run with IPA ? |
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Call Jeff Suits!
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Anonymous User
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If you would like to know what it would take to get one of the ITPA ProFarms to run with IPA, I would recommend calling Jeff Suits in Penfield 217-595-5595. He has sold alot of parts over the years to IH competitors. I know there are alot of Jeff's parts in Lewis Wurth's tractor. |
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Rule Change
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Farm Stock
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Just because the rule changed that does not mean that you have to run the intercooler. Just give it a try with what you got and see how you do. After all tractor pulling is a game of winning and losing. If you beat one that will make a good point. |
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Re: Rule Change
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Thirsty
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Have you guys ever heard of somthing called water injection. It is a whole lot cheeper than a cooler. |
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Re: Rule Change
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Yes I am sure everyone knows about water injection, but it is no where near as reliable or as effective at dropping intake temps as a properly sized intercooler. A simpson valve, high pressure pump, lines and nozzles costs just as much as most intercooler sertups. |
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Re: 9500 rules
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Anonymous User
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was wondering if anyone could get me a list of the rules for this class couldn't find them on the website. Would like to go over them to see if their is anything else i would need to pull in this class next summer. |
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Re: 9500 rules
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jake, its a 3x3 class no water injection. 3 grand rpm. it would be a big step backward |
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Re: 9500 rules
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Hey Isp
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Its a 3by4 turbo not that big a step back for sexy |
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Re: 9500 rules
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puller 8675309
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Wow you know all the rules to the class don't you. There is no exhaust side restriction. Strictly a 3" inlet hole on turbo. And you obviously have no clue about the water. Also the rules are 3,000 RPM for 2011. It was 2750 RPM for 2010. I've ran several times at Gordyville with my "big step backwards" 466 CI with NO WATER and made it to the finals everytime.
Sorry to burst your bubble. Jake, If you would like a copy of the rule book I am sure that Mike Miller would send one to you. Day time phone - 217 923 3949 Night time phone - 217 - 923 3854 |
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Re: 9500 rules
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Jacob Koch
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thanks for the info if we come down to some of the pulls would we be able to run both profarm classes or just one. |
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Re: 9500 rules
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puller 8675309
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you would be able to run both classes if they are at the same pull. the 9500 and 12000 are probably at 40-50% of the same pulls. I would say you will be 30-40 foot behind the 12,000 lb guys. They are some strong running tractors and remember thats an "unlimited" cubic inch class with 3.0 inch turbo inlet and intercoolers. Good Luck |
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Re: 9500 rules
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WOW
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Make sure you have an sfi 47.1 roll cage that is only good for 10,000 lbs. if you plan on pulling in the 12,000 lbs class also. |
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Re: 9500 rules
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Posts: 86 |
You could also run the IHFSPA Pro Farm class as well at 3500 rpm with a 466. If you live further north in the state you could run with IPA Pro Farm as well. It seems that 3000 rpm and a cooler made the 9500 more hp and more able to be competitive with neighboring organizations. The more hooks the better I say. That's all the good that it has done, but I agree with a lot that as been said here before. That class has a big history of rule changes and losses of tractors over the years. |
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Re: 9500 rules
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Jacob Koch
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thanks for the info we will look in to the pulls and see what we can make. can you run water in the 12000 class? |
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Re: 9500 rules
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Anonymous User
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no you can not run water injection in the 12 pro farm |
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