Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 05:19AM
throughout the past year i have been researching on what type of tractor i want to build. i would prefer a massey because of their heritage on our farm and the dependability of them. now i look and unless you want to stay small and pull in the lighter classes with the 354 perkins, then the only other choice you have is to go up to a prostock or superstock with the v8's. i have looked at the option of going with the new sisu engines but for someone looking to get into to the sport economically and starting small, you dont necessarily want to spend that kind of money on a new engine. the 354 was a dependable motor with alot of power but from a tractor pulling standpoint you wish that they would have developed an engine to compete with the jd and ih 466 that have become the back bone of tractor pulling. i desperately want to pull a massey but would like to do so in the superfarm class, but since the small turbo limits me to a 6 cyclinder because it wont get enough air to the v8, im going to have to settle and bore out a 354 and pull in the lighter modified farm classes.
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 06:41AM
510 or 540 V8?
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 09:29AM
you could run the v-8 in the SF class there was one out a few years ago called RAZZ MA TAZZ. Cant remember his name or where he was from. Greg ? i think. almost all SF are @ 640 CID and that is what the v-8 PERKINs are. no bore or stroking to mess with.
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 09:50AM
Just to add to what has been said already.....the massey tractor is ok for local farm classes but you better have a stock pile of cash or a great sponsor to get it running in a prostock,limitedpro,hotfarm class.
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 10:34AM
As with all motorsports it takes money to win. But the Maseey will not !!!! run in the super farm class do too small of a charger.
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 01:31PM
The only guy i know that can a massey really run is Luke Miller from arthur ill. sorry no phone#. he knows his stuff, only thing is you better have plenty of money and time,because he is sssssssslllllllllloooooooowwwwww.
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 01:31PM
I agree with everyone else that it takes money to win at any level in pulling. I do not agree that a Massey will not run in the superfarm class. The V-8 motors will run but will never win, but the Sisu motors will run very well and the Batliners have one in their superfarm. They had some issues with it early in the year but really started to come into its own after Bowling Green. It made some really impressive runs with the MidSouth Pullers and at the NC State fair. The V-8 will run if you give it plenty of air and RPM, but there have been a few that have been really competitive in the 3000 RPM class. I guess it all depends on what class you want to run. If you want a budget Massey superfarm then the 640 V-8 is the way to go but get used to being 30 to 40 feet behind the rest of the class. Anyone can run a JD or IH but not everyone can run a Massey. It takes a special type of crazy person to stick with the Massey.
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 01:44PM
this is the problem though, its either spend the money on a sisu engine or run small. catepillar engines were put in the larger tractors back in the 70's and 80's could you put those in a massey and still be legal?
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 02:48PM
I don’t know of any Twd Massey’s that had Cats in them so you’d only be able to run that engine in a component Pro or Super and not Super Farm or any other Stock chassis class.

It’s not my money or my decision but if it were I’d go with the Sisu engine. Make some calls to the Batliners and to REI you’ll get the inside scope on the big V8 vs the new Inline6. You might spend the little extra upfront for a Sisu but I think you’ll be much happier in the long run. It really think that Sisu has some potential, and I think it might just be a perfect engine for the 540 Light Pro Stock class incase you want to head in that direction in the future (because that will be one if the best classes around in a few years).


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 03:02PM
now the 1155 has the 540, could you run that engine in sf? you can run higher than 3000 rpm but will you be able to feed enough air to the engine? or even take the 510 in the 1150 and feed it air?
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 03:21PM
As for the 510 vs. 540 vs. 640, I’m no expert by any stretch of the imagination but you’ll be mixing and matching parts and you’ll probably find out that you’ll build whatever block/crank combo as close to the 640 limit as possible to get the cubes and bore & stroke you want. (I think the 540 case hardened crank and the 640 block are a popular combo but Cope/Miller/Kuhn/Batliners would know better than I would) You’d feed it the best you can with the best turbo you can afford.

I agree with Patches, everyone in SF runs 600-640 and they ALL feed it with the same 3” charger. The turbo has no idea if it’s a 6 banger or an 8 so there’s potential to run the Perkins in SF and be competitive. Could a Perkins win? Probably, but it would take a seemingly endless R&D budget to get everything right. The inline6’s have their strength in shear numbers, 99.9% of the class is 6 cylinders and there are some pretty proven bore and stroke combos that builders prefer. The Sisu block is just like any other 6 cylinder case and I’m sure the bore and stroke combos that would work in the Sisu aren’t that different than the combos that work well in a Deere or IH. I really think the Sisu will make more power/be cheaper/have better harmonics and longevity in the longrun. (but like I said, I’m no expert and it’s not my money)


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 02:39PM
assuming all the tractors are 640,why wont the massey run at 640.at 640 ea cyl is 106 cuin,on a 6cyl..and 80 cuin on a v8,so the head on the 6 would have to flow more air to make the same tqe,since ea cyl is bigger..i always thought the head was the bad part on the perkins and the cat v8's..or am i wrong
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 03:25PM
to continue on.. would running say a mf 1105 with the 354 turbo be the better choice? where abouts could i bore and stroke it to?
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 06:33PM
if you want to go with the small perkins stay away from the 354 (it was a good farm engine) but for pulling the 365 cui 1006 series perkins is a way better engine because the head flows air alot better and its way easier to put an A or P pump on it but with either engine i would guess the max cui you can get outta one would be around the 420 range
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 26, 2010 09:35PM
Call Robby Crutchfield and you will get all the informtion who need to know and what is the best direction to go concerning a Massey. He has done research on the Sisu as well
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 27, 2010 12:48AM
You cant make a v8 run in this class because it doesnet have enough stroke=torque. the 3x3 charger doesnt make enough air to supply the motor at top end so all you can do is build low end which you cant do with a stroke thats way to short!!! about 6 or 8 guys have tried and failed so if you want to try it ive already got a name "Heartache".
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 27, 2010 02:18AM
its just like everything if u have the desire to make a v8 run u can do it no matter what anyone says but if u dont have a passion for the v8 run what most others run!
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 27, 2010 02:38AM
eddie.would you say the heads were more of a "problem" than the shorter stroke.i would think if the heads were able to support,say 1500,more rpms than the six cyl is currently turning,while running a slower final ratio,with the same ground speed as the six cyl,the performance of the tr should be somewhat equal.im basing this on the v8 having less tqe,but at a higher rpm,so the hp should be somewhat equal,between the 2 motors.
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 27, 2010 04:13AM
According to Phil a combination of shorter stroke along with the degree's betweeneach cylinder firing kept the torque lower. Torque is a must in the Super farm class and we just could not get what we needed.
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 27, 2010 02:18AM
Well we have been there and done that with a V8 with no luck. Phil @ REI told us 4 years ago that we would not have any luck since the V8 cannot make the torque that a inline six will. Our Oliver now has a six cylinder after several different combinations and alot of bucks with the Cat V8.
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 27, 2010 03:11AM
Jarrod Fink out of Wisc runs a 640 in pro farm competes very well with a 3in turbo and 3000rpms, it runs same #s on dyno as 6cyl
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 27, 2010 04:58PM
Here's the best answer I think. If thou have very deep pockets and want to try the V8 go ahead. If you want to win in superfarm then get a Sisu and take it to REI. Stroke is the reason that the V8 will not compete in the superfarm class. You just can't beat a 6 inch stroke with a 5 inch stroke, there is not enough air to keep the RPMs up on the V8. There are a few videos of Batliners Massey on YouTube if you would like to check them out.
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 27, 2010 11:22PM
Do you have to run stock manifolds on a V8 in the superfarm class? If so, that seems like it could be a major restriction. Also are you allowed to run wastegates?
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 29, 2010 02:18AM
In PPL I believe you can have aftermarket manifolds
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Re: Why there are so few masseys... December 28, 2010 01:42AM
could a 510 be stroked to get nearly the same
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Call Crutchfield or Cope December 29, 2010 05:20AM
Call Robby Crutchfield, he has his for sale! Good tractor to buy if you want one right now. Cope knows how to make one scream on a diesel.
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Re: why so few massey's December 30, 2010 02:54AM
I pulled a 640 superfarm a few years ,the short stroke does not cut it@also I could not get it to lite. I turned 6000 rpms ,when I let the clutch out it would pull down and not come back.
If you go with a Massey call me at 641-736-4995 Ill tell you some things that need to be made stronger
Jr.
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Re: why so few massey's December 30, 2010 06:00AM
if i go with the 513, what is my best platform to build on? i like the 1105 and up series tractors, would an 1105 hold up? what is my best choice
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Re: why so few massey's December 31, 2010 10:53AM
The 1155 planetiares are stronger than 1105 or the 1135.
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