IH 400 series engine in farmall January 03, 2011 02:43PM
Looking to put a IH 414 in a Farmall W450, is it worth it? or even possible? I was given the w450 for free and found a good deal on the 414, which includes 86 frame rails which I believe I'm going to need. My questions are, what adapter plate am I going to need? I think I read somewhere that a 560 plate would work, and that along with the 86 frame rails it should be a somewhat direct swap. Not looking to crank the engine up, maybe just a slight increase over stock, but what would I use for a flywheel and clutch? Thanks for all the help.
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 03, 2011 04:47PM
Factory rear 414 plate will bolt to the 450 bell. 560 rear plate will not work since it will not bolt to the 414. The 86 series rails will make it easy, but I don't know how your 450 front bolster will fit- the 86series rails are around 2 inches wider, so spacers will have to be made. Probably not a big deal. 06-56 series rails are the right width, and are lots longer, so they may be the way to go, and will look closer to stock. If you use those, you will have to narrow the 414 front plate mounts, and grind off the lower part of the mount ears, and will only be able to use one bolt per side. You will have to machine the 414 flywheel down to fit the 450 ring gear so your starter will work, and the flywheel will have to be spaced away from the crank to compensate for the thicker rear plate from the 414. Stock 12 inch 966-986 etc. clutch will work. On my 560, the flywheel had to be spaced 7/8 inch. Got the spacer from Floyd Isbell, and he's a wealth of knowledge on these swaps. Of course, the hood and steering will have to be longer. Sounds like a fun project. Good luck.
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 05, 2011 05:15AM
Thanks for the help, thats the info I was looking for. Any idea or recomendation on the 450 trans, TA, and rear holding up, or what to do to upgrade it?
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 05, 2011 04:15PM
I'm not doing a thing to my 560. The 414 I'm using is N/A out of a 966, dynos at 105hp. All I'm doing with it is some antique pulls. If you were to use it daily in the field with a heavy load, I'm sure things would have to be improved, but I don't know much about how to do it.
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 06, 2011 10:22AM
Ok, thanks for the help. I don't plan on using it in the field, strickly pulling. I do plan on running a turbo on it, but stock or slightly bigger than stock...nothing crazy.
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 08, 2011 06:23AM
probly need to put heavier springs in the ta clutch the rear end will hold it I had an 806 gas motor running about 150 in front of a 400 trans and it was fine
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 09, 2011 11:12AM
Looks like I might have steered you wrong on the flywheel. Got mine bolted up yesterday, and the trans input shaft is a bit short. Either I have to find a way to make it longer, or re-machine the flywheel to set the ring gear deeper, and space the flywheel farther from the crank. I haven't measured yet, but it looks like 1/2-3/4" short. I'm gonna bolt it together tonight without the clutch, and do some measuring.
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 09, 2011 12:37PM
806 gas motors make no torque, torque killsSpinning
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 09, 2011 03:55PM
Did the measuring tonight- The input shaft is 3/4" too short. I think I'm going to have a new spacer made (1 5/8") and machine the flywheel to set the ring gear 3/4" deeper. I'm not happy about spacing the flywheel that far off the crank, but I'll use grade 9 bolts with locktite and see what happens.
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 10, 2011 09:48AM
Did you make the spacer yourself, or is it a machined part you had to buy? What starter are you using? The 414 I'm buying doesn't have a starter so Im going to need to get one.
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 10, 2011 04:21PM
I got my 7/8" spacer from Floyd Isbell. If you machine the stock 414-466 flywheel for the 450 ring gear, the 7/8" spacer will get the ring gear to meet with your stock starter, if the 450 is the same as a 560 at the clutch housing, which I think it is. Problem is, the clutch will then be 3/4" too far forward and won't meet the input shaft, or the throwout bearing. The spacer has to be 1 5/8" thick, and the flywheel will have to be machined to put the ring gear 3/4" farther forward than stock. Then everything will bolt up. I'm going to take my 7/8 spacer to a local machine shop this week and have the thicker one made, and take the ring gear back off my flywheel to do the machining on it. My N/A 414 only has 105hp, so I think my T/A will be fine. I never use it anyway.
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 10, 2011 04:51AM
A gas 806 motor an a dt 400series motor are completely different when it comes to torque .Your probably gonna tear up that TA pretty quick with all that torque that 400 series motor has alot to put that threw that little Ta I would think twice about what your doing .You can either do it the cheap way an have it apart every other weekend or build it once the right way or you gonna spend double the money to patch it back up after you do it the cheap way.A gas motor an a diesel are two different beast espically if your gonna put a turbo on it.Just my 2 cents
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 10, 2011 08:21AM
What would you recommend to do to the 450 TA if you say it won't hold up to the tq. of the 414? I'm a firm believer in doing it right the first time, just need to know what to do.
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 10, 2011 08:57AM
Get rid of it, straight shaft it ,Also if you plan on turning some ponies out of it that clutch isn't gonna hold up you need either a double disc or triple disc.Also when you do this your gonna have to mess with the sheetmetal an raditor the stock one one fit unless your gonna extend the hood an in my opinion it looks stupid there already a long tractor never mind putting another foot in it.I would suggest making a custom frontend with the rails an moving your entire hood assembly ahead to make up the difference.This is just my opinion
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 10, 2011 09:46AM
Where would I go to get the parts to straight shaft it? I'm not planning on going crazy HP wise, just a small turbo (stock even) and minor pump work, don't have any plans of doing any more than that. As of now I don't have a radiator, I have to get one that will work. I'm planning on 06/56 rails and using the front end I already have from the 450. Original plan is to extend the 450 sheet metal, but am open for suggestions. Main goal is to get the side rails/engine/front end all together and running and then build the sheet metal.
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Re: IH 400 series engine in farmall January 10, 2011 12:00PM
I would give floyd Isabel a call he has a website custom tractor parts.com.As of horsepower what do think 200 hp I don't know if that ta would hold that .Are you turning stock rpms??? or are you gonna bump it.As far as these builds go there not as simple as people think Believe me I know I been down this road lately you bascially going to spend some money between 3000-5000$ depending on what you run for a clutch Now this is the right way to do this but you need to talk to people who know what there talking about not people that think that might work cause that how you end up in a bind an there isn't a whole lot of people with this combination out there If it was a 1066 thats a completely different story all those parts are off the shelf all the parts your gonna need are custom made an thats way there so much money.Good Luck
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