Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 16, 2011 03:24PM
Before making my suggestion, let me say that 1) I do not like over-reacting to things, and 2) the NTPA rulebook has more than enough rules, in some cases maybe too many.

However, that said, after seeing the accident at Gordyville in the LSS class on Friday, seeing the rear tire bouncing down the track at 30-40 mph, just missing the track crew and spectators, and bouncing over the sand pile and hitting the door about 8 feet off the ground and damaging the building, maybe this is one of those situations where we can learn something and take a "better safe than sorry" approach.

One reason that I am not a big fan of making rule after rule after rule, etc, is who has to pay to get their vehicle in compliance with the new rule? The puller. I am sensitive to the fact that this is a very expensive hobby as it is.

Does anyone remember back in the early days of IRL, they used to race at Lowes Motor Speedway in Charlotte. Then one race, there was an accident, the rear wheel came off the car, bounced over the catch fence and killed a couple of people. That was the end of Indycar racing in Charlotte. The IRL solved the problem by requiring a tether system for tires. There has not been an incident like this since, even though there have been many scary crashes.

After seeing the incident at Gordyville last Friday night, perhaps the NTPA (and PPL and Outlaws) could learn something from this and take the initiative to prevent something bad from happening. I've never seen something like this before, and would guess most of you haven't either. However, all it takes is once for someone to get killed, and that could be the end of the organization. I would guess a multimillion $ lawsuit would make even Forrest Lucas think twice about owning a pulling series.

My suggestion: NTPA (and PPL and Outlaws), as the "National" organizations, could adopt a mandatory tether system for both rear and front wheels. While it would cost a little money, it shouldn't be that much, and you would be taking a measure against something that would be fatal if an unlucky person got in the way. What would happen at Bowling Green if a tractor got crooked and this happened? The tire would bounce right over the concrete barricade and into the lawnchairs (this could be at almost any pull..... the tire was bouncing several feet off the ground). I include the front wheels because even the small tires used by many modifieds or minis, if they were bouncing and moving quickly towards a crowd of people, could cause significant injury or death if they hit someone in the head who was unable to get out of the way (or, even if the tire didn't hit someone, the stampede of people trying to get out of the way could).

Is this idea an overreaction? I'm sure there will be many replies that it is. However, sometimes, it's better to adopt a position of better safe than sorry. A tether system (even on components) could placate the insurance companies, and keep the sport as safe as it can be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2011 03:27PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 16, 2011 04:54PM
The problem with this idea is an indycar wheel and tire weighs what I'd say 150 pounds max. The wheel, tire, and outdrive off of that tractor weighs in at I would guess 1000 pounds. What material would we use for this tether? Where would we mount the tether? (If it were just attached at the hub it would have been useless in this case). I just can't see where this would ever work in pulling however I do see an instance where this should be an eye opener. It has gotten to the point where Light Super Stocks made from Cast rearends just aren't the best idea. When most of these tractors were made 30-50 years ago they weren't made to handle the stress these motors can put out and that is before they are machined to get down to 6000 pounds with movable weight. Yes the sport comes with inherent dangers but it may be time to look at the big picture. I have heard people say that every rule that was made in most motorsports could be named after a certain incident. There are plenty of examples of that in pulling. This is one of those instances and luckily it doesn't need to be written in blood. I know I will catch a lot of heat for this but I am putting it out there.
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 16, 2011 05:54PM
let's not all go nuts here. this was an isolated incident that is rarely seen. i've never seen it before and probably never will again. yes, it was scary and yes, it was dangerous, but you probably are more likely to get hurt or killed driving down the highway than at a pull. so, are you gonna stop driving?? of course not. that's my point. as long as people are involved in motorsports, there will always be a risk of something happening. that's life; can't change it. we all take chances everyday such as goin down the stairs, stepping into the shower, farming and the list goes on and on. frankly the pit area at gordyville is more dangerous than the pull itself. for every tire\wheel that has come loose, there are probably thousands that have'nt. here's how i see it; take the knowledge you have, apply it the best ya can, enforce the rules that are already in place, make people aware and take all neccesary precautions that you can and enjoy the pull. just my opinion.
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 16, 2011 10:41PM
But when you advertise an event to attract customers(spectators) and charge them admission to watch your show, it is a little different then let's say driving down the highway. I don't know what kind of tether system you would need for those kind of weights but I am sure someone may come up with a workable system? That said, it's no wonder that the OEM's want nothing to do with pulling in general,would only expose them to more liability as we continue to use their parts in an application never expected when said ag. tractor was first introduced!
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 17, 2011 08:20AM
I am not saying that we need to go and outlaw all cast tractors but we can't just turtle up and say there isn't a problem here. Perhaps there is a middle ground. Drag racing requires chassis certification to go so fast. Perhaps there is a way to certify a chassis for certain classes taking into affect how each chassis has been machined and such. Maybe that is the answer that will keep everybody happy without allowing this sort of thing to happen again. I'm not saying I have all the answers but I do have ideas and that is what this sport needs.
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 16, 2011 10:54PM
I agree with Fuelish Fan, a chassis and rear end made fifty years ago just can't hold up. Is it time to mandate components in all the big classes?
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 16, 2011 11:56PM
I occasionally watch the Monster Jam on Speed and if you notice they all have some type of tire restraint/tether system. I have seen numerous tires break off at the knuckle and drag along behind the wounded truck, in a few cases the tire actually broke the tether. Keep in mind the extreme forces the monster trucks exert on those systems, I believe it could work for our tractors.
I also agree, in the pursuit of entertainment a spectator or contestant should never expect to be injured or killed. The concern is we don't entertain a knee jerk reaction to the incident but.....we can't just sit on our hands and wait for the next occurrence of this type of failure. Additionally, I would submit that the horsepower and wheel speeds on any competition vehicle will not decrease or slow down in the future. These concerns will only become greater as we progress.
Some years ago the Rooster Cruiser lost a tire and wheel at an outdoor event, the tire (relatively slowly) ambled down the track and caused no real harm to anyone or anything. I believe if that happened today with the same Rooster Cruiser the result would be much worse.
There should be a reasonable response that will enhance safety and keep the event safe for all the spectators and workers, because let's face it the driver is most likely the last person to be injured. Most safety enhancements we have seen have been centered around the safety of the driver not the spectator, maybe we need to think about the paying audience member?
Rob Bonino
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 17, 2011 12:48AM
heck this happened at the winter nationals Atpa had back in 02, i think, the tire went to the sand pile at a pretty good clip just wasn't anywhere else to go after it hit the sand. i don't know the solution but to say this is the first time seen shows the limited memory of people. I have never seen one jump that high but who can predict where loose parts are going. Best thing about the whole deal is that no one got hurt, but if you bought a ticket your at the mercy of the deal if you don't believe so sometime read the back of the ticket stub as to what your personal liability is in any arena or event.
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 17, 2011 01:09AM
unfortunately warnings on a ticket stub means diddly squat in today's world of shot gun lawsuits in which any warm body in the area and even sometimes bodies pushing up daises will be named in a suit, just a sad fact of life in America and now it's even happening more and more here in Canada!
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In Favor! January 17, 2011 01:05AM
Michael,

I couldn't agree with you more! I've seen tire incidents happen a few times and each time you're just waiting to react to the direction the loose tire will go. With a pulling track environment it's very easy for a loose tire to change directions pretty quickly due to clumps of dirt, ruts, slopes, etc., whereas on a paved racetrack it would reason to think that same tire could continue in the same direction a lot easier.

A few years back Patrice Beaudry popped both front tires off at Bowling Green. Gardner Stone's girlfriend (or wife, I'm not sure) was standing near the end of the track (granted, probably in a location she shouldn't have been) but had to run to avoid one of them. Now, we all know we had to adapt to a new skid plate rule because of this very incident. But that skid plate doesn't do a thing about loose front tires, which are easy to snap off! The very next pull after the Beaudry incident was in Freeport, IL. The tires popped off yet again and bounced directly over my head, hit the chain link fence and hit the ground. That day, the tire would have hit the bleachers if not or the chain link fence. Then just this summer, we saw Pumpkin Gone Mad lose a tire. Other posters are saying this is a rarity but I don't think it is. Albeit each time tires come off it can be due to different things, they still come off!

Michael, I think this is a great idea. If this same thing happened at Louisville, we might not be so lucky. Each year at Louisville, my husband and I discuss the ugly thought of "what if" a tractor didn't stop at the sand pile, or if a turbo explodes and shoots pieces forward, etc. Louisville's set-up wouldn't be very forgiving. I agree: Better safe than sorry.
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Re: In Favor! January 17, 2011 01:41AM
I think everybody is overeacting a little I agree with spun rod s*^t happens and actually pulling has a pretty good safety record and people take risks everyday they get out of bed it could be their last thats life. That incident wasn't the driver's, tractor's, or promoter's fault. A component tractor could loose a wheel too and mandating component chassis's would I think actually hurt the sport some because their is some people who just wouldn't do it and say screw it and do something else with their free time and money besides pull. I myself having a cast rearend tractor am definitely not in favor of it being a rule. It's just my two cents be glad nobody was hurt and learn from it.
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Re: In Favor! January 17, 2011 01:59AM
maybe all the pulls need to think about having chain links fences to protect the crowd. if you want to compare pulling to racing so bad, have you ever been to any race that didnt have a fence installed at the track? even the local dirt tracks have them.
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 17, 2011 04:00AM
I think a tether system would be a good idea, and not incredibly expensive. Weld mounting points for a cable at the end of the axle housing and mount it to the chassis with enough slack coiled up so that in the event of breakage, the tractor can fall to the ground without snapping the cable. You'd need some way to hold the axle/hub in the outer bearing so it couldn't come out in the event of a broken axle, say a snap ring or a locking collar.

I don't know of a way to tether to the wheel itself. Any thoughts on that?
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 17, 2011 04:44AM
Teathers would NOT have worked in this case.

The whole housing/axle/tire left the tractor.

And this IS a cast tractor issue! All you knuckledraggers need to WAKE THE HECK UP!
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 17, 2011 05:04AM
Mr. Advisor: Can you advise us cast iron lug-nuts out here as to whether or not the axle housing that broke was or was not machined down to make it lighter?? Hence making it weaker. How 'bout whether the axel was gun drilled to make IT lighter?? If you are not armed with that info, it would be nice if you were not out there spraying us cast iron knuckle draggers with bullets of false alarm. IF........the housing and axle WERE machined in some way, would it not make more sense to BAN that practice and those items as opposed to making ALL KNUCKLEDRAGGERS build completely new tractors?? If you are a lib, maybe we could blame it on Sarah Palin.
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 17, 2011 05:13AM
how about hookin the tie bars to the axle housings,that would be simple enough and fairly cheap..
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 17, 2011 05:42AM
now theres the way too do it; put a clamp type bracket around the axle houseing and weld it to the ty bars the axle houseing still may break .but it shouldn/t get out of control . i;am sure richwine is working on this. this could happen in the hvy. classes as well. my big question is why were all those guys standing on the finish line ???the flag man is the ownly one that should be on the track or near the end when a tractor is pulling. not 5 extra guys; never been there but there must be a place on the side line for these guys to get out of the fireing line ? just some thoughts from an old ntpa tech man .
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 17, 2011 06:03AM
the tie bars could be conected to some of the steel hitch braces to for a rear girdle to hold the axle housings into a given area if some breakage was to occur..
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 17, 2011 05:42AM
I've often wondered about tethers for the front wheels, but never for the rear. That said, the Gordyville situation was a scary one and there's never a bad time examine safety. If it's true that the cast and axle broke in this case (doesn't appear in the video that it did) then tether's would been of little value.

While I've seen rears come off, I presonally have never seen a rear do what that one did; but I'm not saying it's never happened either. I like the idea of tie bars on cast tractor axles and some engineers could argue that gun drilled axles are actually stronger than solid given the exponential increase in surface tension, but that too depends on the size of the drilling.

I think it should be considered and perhaps tested, but no more knee-jerk reactions to individual incidents. This is yet another reason for a unified pulling consortium where there's one set of researched, structured rules for all orgs to follow.
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Re: Guest editorial: New NTPA rule suggestion (better safe than sorry) January 17, 2011 12:33PM
About 15 yrs ago in Louisville, Esdon Lehn broke the right rear axle shaft off at the starting line. He hadn't moved the sled very much and the big ole 30.5 waddled right on over and smashed the smoke hose (just after it had been fixed earlier). Since that night, I've often thought about what would have happened if that failure had occurred at 200 feet with the tractor at full speed and the tire glued to the clay track?? I think my fears were confirmed at Gordeyville....the spinning tire keeps on going ahead to wherever it's aimed at, and at Freedom Hall that would be right up into the south bleachers. I'm unfamiliar with tether systems, but I propose the rear tires have a horizontal wrap-around round bar made of the roll cage material that would be at the axle centerline front and rear and attached to the frame/rearend somehow. Then another tube/bar from the center of the axle up over the top of the tire at 12 o'clock and tied to the roll cage itself and to the first horizontal bar. I'd guess 4 to 6 inches of clearance would be sufficient front-top-rear and with maybe 2 to 3 inches to the side wall. If the tire comes off OR the axle housing breaks, the spinning wheel assembly should stay contained because when the rearend drops down the round bars would stop it from rotating. Would there be damage done to the tractor?? probably yes, but the idea is to try to contain the tire and wheel and if it isn't totally restrained, slow it waaaaaay dowen to prevent injuries to spectators and track help. The tether type system could also be used along with this bar system. One thing for sure, if nothing is done, we could see the same thing again and next time it might be ugly. For all classes??? I don't think so.....maybe just the highest HP ones to start??
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What does Jake and Richard think? January 17, 2011 07:08AM
Morgans, you were there. What do you think about making a rule change?
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Re:My view January 17, 2011 09:46AM
The runaway wheel in the LSS class was potentially one of the most serious situations that I’ve seen at any tractor pull that I’ve ever attended. But for the Grace of God no one was hurt. There are many variables that made this a non-injury incident. If the tractor had been even 50 feet farther down the track there would not have been time to react, if the wheel had come off the other side of the tractor the media section may not have a place to go, if the wheel had come off in another arena there may have been serious injuries. So, yes I think it’s a huge concern for the pulling community.

To say that no one got hurt, therefore there’s no problem is rather shortsighted. This time no one got hurt, next time who knows what may happen? Are you willing to take that risk?

Having said all that it’s real easy for me to spend other peoples money, however I think that when it comes to the safety, of not only the pullers but also the fans that come to the show they have every right to feel that they are taking their families to a safe, wholesome and yes exciting event. Every effort should be made to use the best equipment and technology when it comes to safety.

I know that this can turn into a component non-component discussion in the Super Stock classes, however the truth is while I feel that all SS tractors should be component this could happen in any class of truck and tractor pulling. Therefore I think that every effort should be made to investigate and develop a system that keeps rolling, rotating, drive parts confined and controlled in any incident.

I know that when a puller puts on the fire suit and helmet they are aware and except the risk that comes with the sport, the mom and dad that bring their kids to the pull did not signup for that same risk.
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Re: Re:My view January 17, 2011 11:44AM
thank you, my thoughts exactly!
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Re: Re:My view January 17, 2011 01:27PM
I’m not a fan of a knee jerk reaction, but I also don’t buy the argument that nothing can be done because “sh.. just happens”. I think there should be a response by the national associations, but I think it should be an appropriate response for the situation. There are a few separate issues so I’ll try to take them one at a time:

Should there be a tire restraint system?
  • Well let’s take a look the front tires first. I think there’s a very, very valid argument for a front tire restraint system. I’ve seen countless front tires come off tractors. I’ve seen front tires bounce about three stories high when a Super Stock slammed down hard. I’ve seen front tires launch down the track when a spindle snapped. I’ve seen spindles break and pullers run over their own front tires. Thankfully I’ve yet to see anyone get hurt, but it’s only a matter of time until a front tire goes into the stands or into a track official. A front tire landing on someone could paralyze or possible kill a spectator and it happens numerous times each summer. Can a cheap and minimal restraint system be built? Sure, and it’s probably overdue.
  • Now for the rear tires. I’ve seen maybe a dozen rear tires come off. The Gordyville incident was the first extremely dangerous incident that I’ve ever seen. I remember the Rooster Cruiser incident and that tire was rolling at a speed that even an old lady with a walker could have gotten out of the way. I’m not 100% sure but all the other rear tire incidents that I’ve seen were either the result of the flange breaking on the weld-on hub, the weld-on hub breaking off, or the axle breaking at the weld-on hub. I’ve seen axles break in the housing and in all those occasions the tractor had to be lifted with the hi-lift before the wheel and axle could actually be taken off. The Gordyville incident was the first time I’ve seen the trumpet, axle assemble, tire and rim all come off at once. The extra mass and the nature of the fracture may be what was responsible for the velocity that the assembly carried down the track, up the scraper tractor, and ultimately up the wall and into the walkway. As Rob Bonino mentioned there are restraint systems that may have prevented this accident. Some of the systems are cable type systems, but there are other alternatives: These types of systems could be implemented on both cast as well as component tractors.

    Now would this system have made a difference in Gordyville? No. Well not by itself anyway. The tractor in Gordyville broke the axle housing right at the base of the trumpet. Infact all the bolts were intact with broken piece of cast iron still securely underneath the bolts, essentially it sheared the flange right off the trumpet. Page user “Patches” had an excellent idea of an axle housing restraint system. It could easily be tied to the wheelie bars, tie bars, hitch assembly, rear-end housing, etc… The two systems together (properly designed of course) would have contained the wheel assembly to the tractor. At the very least a system could be built to absorb the energy.

    A tire restaint system that tied directly to the rear-end housing would also be an alternative to a two seperate systems. It would kill two birds with one stone.

Is this a Component rear-end vs. Cast rear-end issue:
  • Yes and No. Yes, because cast is inherently more brittle and more prone to fracture. No because this could happen with a component tractor as well. Now before everyone starts to yell at their computer and then me… component tractors are usually built in one of two fashions: there is a spindle that the planetary mounts on, that spindle is either welded to the rear-end, or flanges are both welded to the spindle and welded to the rear-end, then those flanges are bolted together. Those flanges could break, the bolts could break, or those welds could fail. Is it likely with a component tractor? No, it’s not really very probable, but it is possible. Here’s my shout out to “Where the spec” guy: there is no spec, there is no standard, and there is no certification. So it could happen if poorly built, poorly designed, or poorly fabricated.

Is this a Light Super Stock issue:
  • Maybe, maybe not. If the trumpet/axle housing was machined to lighten it up to make weight for the LSS class then yes, it’s a LSS issue (but really it’s only an issue for whomever did the machine work). If however the trumpet was completely stock then this could have happened in any class. Actually if it’s stock and hasn’t been machined it’s actually more likely to happen in a heavy class as opposed to a light one. It is actually more likely in a heavy/hi-torque class, as opposed to a light/high wheel speed class.

Should components be mandated or should Cast be banned:
  • Personally I think they both have their place and I’m totally against mandating a class go completely component. I honestly believe that with the right engineering and the right safety standards that they both can be equally safe. I think that a component has its share of advantages, but I think that options should always exist for the purists who prefer that a tractor have a tractor rear-end.

It took one gearbox explosion at an NTPA event to cause change. Unfortunately this didn’t happen at an NTPA or PPL event so the major organization will most likely be slow to react, if they react at all. The NTPA, PPL and almost all other organizations allow component tractors so if this happened at their event and someone was injured they could deflect some of the liability by using the defense that they allow a “safer” alternative but the puller choose not to adopt the “safer” option. The Outlaws on the other hand have banned component tractors and a lawyer could argue that since they disallow a “safer” option then they would bear some of the burden.

This incident should be a wakeup call and should be no different than the gearbox. The question now is what an appropriately measured response is, and will anyone make it.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2011 01:32PM by Jake Morgan.

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Re: Re:My view January 17, 2011 01:35PM
If they would just lower those dang cubes! Haha couldn't resist,..... just glad no one got hurt besides that dang old john deere. Smoking
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Re: Re:My view January 17, 2011 02:17PM
I appreciate the joke and I couldn’t help but laugh a little. I’m also extremely thankful that no one was injured in Gordyville and I hopeful that this bullet dodged will be a valuable lesson.

I honestly believe that this page and the people on it can be a force for good in this sport. I honestly believe that this page can add to and even lead the discussion regarding safety standards. I’m thankful to “The Original Michael” for starting such a wonderful thread, and I’m also thankful for all the great responses (even the joke). This thread is exactly why I enjoy owning this page. Thanks to all who have posted and those who continue to post and discuss these topics that will help move our motorsport forward and help make it safer.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: Re:My view January 17, 2011 02:42PM
This site is great keep up the good work you and your dad do! Thumbs Up
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Seen it all!! January 17, 2011 03:43PM
It appeared to me that one of the sun gears in the planetary broke and bound up in the ring gear causing everything to be pushed outward. I looked at the broke housing very well afterwards, I couldn't see an old cracks or rusty spots around the housing that showed any signs of being weak Nor did the housing looked like it had been ground on to lighten it up. The housing did not break on its own. What cause this wheel to travel so far, so hard is two things.... The speed at which it has beeing turned and the fact that it had the heavy housing/axel/sun gear acting as a flywheel to push it. Another thing to think about while everyone is "What IFing", what would be the outcome if a tractor should jump the sandpile @ Gordyville like Get-Er- Dun did @ Murfreesboro year before last? the tractor would be in the walkway.... Could happen..... The main thing is the good lord was with everyone @ Gordyville and no one got hurt.
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Re: Seen it all!! January 17, 2011 04:24PM
I was standing about 20 feet away from the wall when that tire hit it! Yes we were all lucky to have had the chance to move. I am not much for over reacting but both the tether and the axle mounted bars would have worked in this situation because you would of had it (axle housing) secured to the tractor. That being said another thing that played into this whole thing is the fact that the tractor was duck walking pretty good before it broke causing it to have some extra pressure on the peices. You have to look really close in the video to see it but if you were there it was very apparent along with quite a few of the other tractors in the class. In these circumstances a component could possibly have done the same thing.
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Re: Re:My view January 17, 2011 04:17PM
after reading these many posts i've come to consider the fact that perhaps a teather of some sort would be a good precaution. although it may not prevent all mishaps, it would certainly help. to what degree, i'm not sure. now let's ask ourselves, what is the real cause of this unfortunate incident??? cast iron?? maybe, maybe not. too much power?? hmmmm, let's see,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yes i believe we have a winner!!! gee, how did this happen?? maybe because so many people play follow the leader, yes, you too Jake, always vote for larger cubes, constantly crusade for it. they tell us what a great advantage big cubes will be, but carefully sidestep the fact that big cubes keep out many makes of tractors except I.H. and Deere. but yet big cubes in a smaller tractor is completely safe. and now an incident has occured and everyone is scrambling for answers. i have gone on record for a long time speaking against big cubes in the light classes. not because i knew this would happen, because i did'nt know, but because it is a stupid idea. i don't claim to be a genuis, but straight forward thinking tells me if the cube limit had been kept smaller, we would'nt be dealing with this now. and just so you all know, i'm not a keyboard puller; this altercation involves me too. this post will likely draw some fire;;; fire away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Re:My view January 18, 2011 01:39AM
Quote
spun rod
after reading these many posts i've come to consider the fact that perhaps a teather of some sort would be a good precaution. although it may not prevent all mishaps, it would certainly help. to what degree, i'm not sure. now let's ask ourselves, what is the real cause of this unfortunate incident??? cast iron?? maybe, maybe not. too much power?? hmmmm, let's see,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yes i believe we have a winner!!! gee, how did this happen?? maybe because so many people play follow the leader, yes, you too Jake, always vote for larger cubes, constantly crusade for it. they tell us what a great advantage big cubes will be, but carefully sidestep the fact that big cubes keep out many makes of tractors except I.H. and Deere. but yet big cubes in a smaller tractor is completely safe. and now an incident has occured and everyone is scrambling for answers. i have gone on record for a long time speaking against big cubes in the light classes. not because i knew this would happen, because i did'nt know, but because it is a stupid idea. i don't claim to be a genuis, but straight forward thinking tells me if the cube limit had been kept smaller, we would'nt be dealing with this now. and just so you all know, i'm not a keyboard puller; this altercation involves me too. this post will likely draw some fire;;; fire away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm going to have to disagree in part with this particular incident. Reason being is this rear end is commonly used in big cube classes with high horsepower, ie prostock. 505 inch motors I don't believe are too big for this chassis, BUT I do believe that the open lss class should use a component chassis Also if you watched the llss class friday afternoon, you would have noticed a lot of drive train failures on the even smaller cube lower horsepowered machines
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Re: Re:My view January 18, 2011 02:53AM
Spun rod,

I think you really, really, really need to go back and read my older Opinion articles and you’ll quickly see that big cubic inches isn’t what I’ve advocated for. Sorry if I offend you with the following rant, but cubic inches are near and dear to my heart and I always get pretty fired up when discussing them.

I like to think that this page has been instrumental in raising awareness regarding cubic inches in this sport. I never read or heard anyone discuss cubic inches before I started writing about them when I first started this page in 1997. I have caught flak from pullers in just about every class simply by writing that they should lower their cubic inches. I was at the forefront of arguing with pullers and organizations regarding the cubes in the Open Super Stock, Pro Stock, Super Farm, and Diesel Super. To say that I’ve been a proponent of big cubes is revisionist history. I’ve even stated on a few occasions that the LSS class would have been just as good at 400 cubes instead of 500.

Infact most of my time on this page has been advocating for the lower cubic inch classes. I’ve been a proponent of the Light Super even back when almost everyone thought the class was dead and it was cancelled from Louisville. I’ve been a proponent of the Light Limited Super for quite some time and I continually advocate for unified rules in the class because it has the potential to be the best small cube light class in all of pulling. I’ve advocated for the Light Pro and I believe that this page was instrumental in the creation and rule making for that class (people took printouts from this page to the meetings). I’ve written numerous times that I think smaller cube classes will help usher this sport into the future and the big cube classes were dying dinosaurs.

As “response” wrote, this rear-end is used in just about every class, including PS, DSS, and SF. I believe this same rear-end was used in Doug Roberts Barnyard Beast, which was big cubes and I’d argue that it made at least 50% more HP than the tractor that broke. This rear-end is used in numerous high torque, high weight, high horsepower tractors so… no, I do not believe that this was a cube issue.

If you want to start a new thread about cube inches I implore you to please start one, I’ll respond and we can have a good discussion about cubes, but this incident was not a cube issue.

This incident is simply a safety issue. Unfortunately parts will always break, things even break on the space shuttle and they definitely don’t lack for engineering and/or brain power. The response to this incident is the important part and it’s imperative that this sport take every reasonable precaution to keep it fans and participants safe. I’m 100% sure that there are simple and effective tether systems that would have minimized the danger or completely eliminated it all together.

Thanks to Cody for the eyewitness inspection of the parts. Since there was no grinding and no machining to this rear-end, and since this rear-end is so common in all classes it’s even more crucial that some simple safety precautions be implemented.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


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Re: Re:My view January 18, 2011 04:26AM
Cubes to big, Cast tractor, Component tractor, Light parts, who knows all the answers. I do have one thought though. What about a light class with light parts weighing down to nearly 7000lbs. That tractor and others were built to make 6000lbs and I wonder if the failure would have occured at that weight. If a gear broke causing the failure then it wouldn't matter. But it is a thought that one of if not the best tracks any of us pull on with the added weight could have contributed. I am not tring to start something just sharing my hypothesis. That being said, we are already drawing up a cradle for our axle housing to connect to the subframe and rearend housing. Our axle housings are not lightned up at all but it is not worth the risk of failure. A rule is going to be hard to come up with but some simple tie bars and connection of the axle to the subframe should work and at minimal expense. As would it be simple to enforce and inspect.
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Re: Re:My view January 18, 2011 12:15PM
Heck I didn't even think of that. Tie bars to the axle are a great inexpensive way to help this out. You may just be leading the way to a new safety measure. Good luck and let us know how this works out for you.
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Re: Re:My view January 18, 2011 05:39AM
i understand your points and agree with you on them.
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Re: Guest editorial: Iron Toy Video, Henry '07 January 17, 2011 04:44PM
I first want to thank everyone who worked so hard at Gordyville to put on a great show. I wasn't supposed to be going until a dinner table conversation with my uncle who had arrived from Duluth a few hours earlier. He pushed the issue and he was tickled to death to be able to go, and so was I.

The site of seeing the 30.5 rear wheel go flying like that was a sight to see, and scary. It did not "seem" to have been traveling that fast down the track MPH wise, from the other side of course, but it was fast enough...and probably too fast for those starring at it coming at them. But, the mere mass of the wheel was the scary and probably the most damaging part. I appreciate the way the situation was handled at the track.

I have put a link below of Adam Bauer's minirod at Henry in '07 losing a rear wheel. As luck would have it, the rear wheel got caught up in the fenders. It would not have, it more than likely would have been a rocket down the track because he was at full tilt when it let loose, as was the Gordyville tractor.

Unfortunately things like this are gonna happen in motorsports. Thankfully, in both situations, the wheel continued down the track versus going all over the place like most other motorosports incidents that have been mentioned.

[s239.photobucket.com]
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Re: Guest editorial: Iron Toy Video, Henry '07 January 17, 2011 05:06PM
Ok, after seeing the video of Gordyville on YouTube, that rear wheel was moving fast. Must have been that heat of the moment , slow motion thing. Sorry y'all, no disrespect intended whatsoever.
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Re: Guest editorial: Iron Toy Video, Henry '07 January 18, 2011 02:36AM
If we put any kind of cage or braces around the rear tire, then it wouldnt fit into the trailer. So have to take off and put back on at every pull.... Dont like the idea of that !!!
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Re: Guest editorial: Iron Toy Video, Henry '07 January 18, 2011 09:03AM
...just like the monster truck world.
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