'Hot' Water, what is in it??? February 22, 2011 07:25AM
Taking a step back from the issues already discussed in detail on this board, I am interested in the technology behind this ‘Hot’ water. I would think for this fluid to be of benefit, it would have to have the following properties:

• Soluble in water
• Chemically compatible with all engine components
• Have good lubricity and minimum viscosity
• Pass current regulating body tests (again, the ethics of this are mute for this discussion)
• Produce a minimum of ?? hp to even make it worthwhile to mess with

So what chemical or combination of chemicals could do all this? Nitro is the obvious choice for making power but does it meet the other requirements? (Assuming my list above is correct.) So tell me, what is in it?

And to be clear, I don’t pull super farm or any Diesel tractor for that matter. I just haven't seen any meat (data) behind all the issues this magic water has caused. And I am not condoning it or condemning using it, I am neutral on that issue.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2011 09:29AM by MH49.
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Re: 'Hot' Water, what is in it??? February 22, 2011 09:25AM
I believe it basicly hydrogen peroxide. It is used in a much purer level than what you buy at the store. It is water with an unstable oxygen molecule. What it boils down to is they are injecting oxygen, which is an accelerant like nitrous oxide. Any rule book I have ever seen says no accelerants! So how isn't this cheating, no matter how you slice it or how nice a guy you are.
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Re: 'Hot' Water, what is in it??? February 22, 2011 11:40AM
Would methanol might fit the bill for some of the above listed criteria? Poor lubricity but there are additives if one desires. Just thinking out loud here but as with blood doping in sports, there is usually a performance enhancing agent and there are companion agents that mask the offending substance. I wouldn’t be surprise if there was a methanol cocktail that might sneak past a test or two.


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Re: 'Hot' Water, what is in it??? February 22, 2011 01:16PM
I agree with hydrgon peroxide being a hot water. I would believe that it would be hard to detect as it breaks down to water very quickly. I need to look up the data in my Meric's book to make sure.
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Re: 'Hot' Water, what is in it??? February 22, 2011 02:51PM
Back in the 80's I was told by a puller that you could ad propylene oxide to the water injection. At that time it was hard to check for. Would that still be the case?
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Re: 'Hot' Water, what is in it??? February 22, 2011 04:04PM
Depends how they are checking the water. We went through a lot of this on the garden tractors a few years back. Propylene oxide and other oxidizers that is.

If they're using specific gravity, methanol (.792), propylene oxide (.825), and nitromethane (1.138) are all soluble in water. Water's specific gravity is 1.0, so say if you were to run a 10% mix of methanol with the water, the Sg should show up as (1.0*.9) + (.792*.1) = .979. That's easily detectable. Now I'm not sure about the Sg of the soluble oil you mix into it, that is going to effect the net Sg of the solution as well.

If using dielectric test, water has a dielectric constant of 80, nitromethane is 35.87, and just going by memory I think PO had a Dc of around 13. Using the same formula as above, you can see that water showing a lower Dc would also indicate being tampered with.

You could also probably use a litmus test to check the acidity (ph) level of the fluid. I'm not sure of the ph values of these fluids though, and honestly I'm tired of looking up the values. Smiling

I'm sure there are more tests out there that exceed my limited chemistry knowledge. The sky's the limit.
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Re: 'Hot' Water, what is in it??? February 23, 2011 04:01AM
I agree with h2o2
What they are using its not h2o. It is h2o2. One easy way to detect there Michigan water is to put in a freezer. H2o freezes at 32 degrees H2o2 does not.
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Re: 'Hot' Water, what is in it??? February 23, 2011 05:30AM
YOu are correct about lower freezing point. The biggest problem I see with peroxide is it will change back to water if exposed sun light and air. If i was pulling again i would look at adding #3 diesel fuel to the #2 to increase the BTU to gallon. Just my $0.02 worth
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Re: 'Hot' Water, what is in it??? February 23, 2011 01:48PM
cmon "outlaw puller". Enough cheap shots about the michigan water. You must have had a rough summer runnin with the decks eh?
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Re: 'Hot' Water, what is in it??? February 23, 2011 01:56PM
In response what is #3 diesel home heating oil. I have never heard of it around here???
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Re: 'Hot' Water, what is in it??? February 24, 2011 12:40AM
Yes it is heating oil. They make in many different grades up to # 6 or 7 sometimes called bunker oil. With the amount and heat that puller use and make I don't believe that slower flame front would issue as long as you keep percentage under 30%.
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Re: 'Hot' Water, what is in it??? February 24, 2011 12:43AM
I don’t think that was a cheap shot but whatever. All I’m saying is how can your Michigan water be legal even in the NTPA when it doesn’t freeze. Maybe NTPA needs to test there water samples by using the “freeze test”. If it doesn’t freeze you’re the one giving the cheap shot to all the other pullers.
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Re: 'Hot' Water, what is in it??? February 24, 2011 01:25AM
H2O2 aka hydrogen peroxide has a melting point of 31 degrees. On the other hand when Decks got caught during the 2009 season, they claimed they were using heavy water. If you look up heavy water it shows that the melting point is at 38.8 degrees, it freezes faster than regular water. From what I heard there water did'nt freeze.
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