JD cheap tractors March 21, 2011 01:11PM
Was looking at the for sale page and saw a red tractor rolling chassis for sale and got to wondering. Why is there no JD tractors without motors ever for sale. No 4430 or 4020 with out a motor? Just thinking.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 22, 2011 04:32AM
There has been over a dozen John Deere's sold on here since the end of last season. I was once told by a dear old friend who thas since pasted away. There's an a$$ for every seat and there just happens to be more buyers for John Deere's.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 22, 2011 05:29AM
There have been several JD's posted and sold, but there's A LOT more IH's out there in these classes (FS / AF / HF / SF) than JD's and thus more for sale.

I'm a JD fan through and through, but in these classes it's awful hard / expensive to get the JD's to run with them. If I were wanting say a Hot Farm, I'd be hard pressed not to buy red if I wanted better odds on winning early.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 22, 2011 12:19PM
I would disagree. I think JD has just as much potential. John Deere just has more of a reputation to keep up with than IH. There is not alot of people that would take a 25000 dollar 4440 and turn it in to a puller. Its cheaper to buy a 1066..................
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 22, 2011 01:28PM
Re-read what I said...it takes some $ to get a JD to do what an IH will do in those classes - that proves the potential. Ask Wicked Whitetail (now sold to Austrailia). No questiion on potential, just takes a little more.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 22, 2011 01:39PM
Well then y is that evreyone crys about the big block deeres and the cubes??? If u cant afford it then dont build it!
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 22, 2011 01:39PM
I agree. I've always felt the closer to a stock class that you are pulling in the better off you are with red.

DPS
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 22, 2011 01:40PM
Personally I think they have about the same potential from the start, but i would not build a deere. A well used stock 4440 with 9000 hours sells for $20,000 sometimes more-or-less, and a 1066 in the same condition sells for $5000 in my area. Not to mention there are a lot more cab less 66 series tractors out there than 4440/30's. That extra $15,000 gives a guy a lot of money to play with. I guess brand loyalty comes into play here somewhere.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 22, 2011 02:07PM
If you look at the production numbers of the 4430 v the 1066 you will find that IH built MANY more 1066's than Deere 4430's. Also the availibility of the 400 series engine in trucks, combines and tractors make it very easy to find a good engine for the IH. The LaGod family has as much to do with IH popularity as anything IMHO He was the guy that really started to manufacture great parts to make these tractors scream. Not that Deere SB is a bad engine at all, but the lack of a crossflow head is a real impediment to easy power.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 22, 2011 03:03PM
The crossflow head was exactly the reason that I believe out of the box the IH seems to be stronger.

DPS
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 23, 2011 02:43PM
hey gonzo, did u ever think that john deere built the 20 series tractors so well and long lasting and maybe thats why there werent a whole lot of 4430 series sold? this isnt rocket science. compare the sales of 4020's to the sales of a 1206 or 806. and how many 1206 and 806's are still out there grinding feed or have a loader on them doin daily work? like i said, deere made there stuff to last and thats exactly why the 30 series werent that hot of an item. not near as many 30 series parked in the fence row as there are 66 and 06 ih's.. hardly ever hear of a quadrange going bad if used as stock application and hp. just stating the "facts"
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 30, 2011 08:45AM
A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MY AREA STILL RUN THE 06 SERIES EVERY DAY EVEN THE JD GUYS THAT DONT WANT TO GET THERE GREEN TRACTOR DIRTY ITS ALL IN CHOICE PUT THERES NOTHING NICER THAN A RED TRACTOR WORKING DOWN GROUND
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 23, 2011 12:57PM
Did I miss something or what? I pitty the guy that pays $25000 for a stock 4440 deere.That tractor is over 30 years old and all of them are beginning to have quad range problems that arent cheap to fix.Most 4440's I have seen at auction dont go for much difference in price than a comparable RED tractor.So I dont buy the Deeres being worth more.Its just that the guys that have green underware are convinced they are worth more than a comparable RED tractor so they pay more.It just depends on what part of the country your from when it comes to resale.Average 4440's around here can be bought for around $10-12k.I have seen running pulling tractor prospects go for $6500.Im sure all of the green guys that are looking for pullers already know this.So your theory doesnt hold water.The Deere rear end and trans just cost too much to make 'em live on the track.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 23, 2011 01:29PM
What part of the country are you from that has running 4440s for $6500?? And the reason people pay 25k for them is because when you consider what a new 140hp tractor costs, that still looks pretty cheap for a tractor that is still considered modern by a lot of people.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 23, 2011 01:35PM
I disagree it takes just as much money and more to hold a IH rear end and tranny together in a hot farm/ pro farm. Now their putting in 8 disk ta's these parts arn't cheap. I can buy a 3 speed for a 4020 for $4200 come on guys. Theres just not enough guys with class PULL A DEERE!!!!

Cross flow heads are over rated a 55 series JD head has bigger valves and flows really good stock

I had a 4020 rear end on here and I got 1 call put whatever you want on it for sheet metal. Theres no need to buy a running tractor. BEEN THERE DUNN THAT!!!!
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 23, 2011 06:09PM
I could use one of them nice low houred $12,000 4440's!!! Tracor House ads have 170 listed ------14 of them under $16,900

[www.tractorhouse.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2011 06:15PM by BigDave.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 23, 2011 11:20PM
A quad range wear out? I used to have a 4630 we bought new and traded it with 19,600 hours on it. Was turned up to 200hp since the day it was new. Never had one problem with trans. Still have a 4430 we bought new in 76 with over 40,000 hours on it. Trans was rebuilt at 27000 hrs. Have had just as good as luck in the powershifts too. I would like to see a 1066 still running with that many hours. JD 4440 will out value a 1066 everyday of the week.
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hey walkin tall March 24, 2011 01:15AM
i will give that hour challenge on a 1066 a challenge but it will take me a quite a few years to do so! The quad trans is great but, like like everything they do wear out even on a stock application like you said but, i am surpreised you got that many hours on it. the fact remains as someone stated above(may have been you) 25k is still cheap for a 4440 compared to a new one. I should know we just bought a 4250 yesterday
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Re: hey walkin tall March 24, 2011 04:03AM
There must be a reason why ITPA superfarm is primarily RED, and it's probably not because the Deeres are just as competitive for the same money. Some of those RED competitors in that class are diehard green guys too. Why not ask them why they made the switch? BTW, my neighbor just bought a pretty nice 10000 or so houred 4430 that needs nothing for $7800, so they are apparently not headed for the Smithsonian yet.
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hey check yourself March 24, 2011 04:25AM
Tell your neighbor he got ripped off. There's a 4430 4 post in the classifieds on this site for $6000.
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Re: hey check yourself March 24, 2011 12:27PM
Did you ever wonder why John Deere thrives today when almost all others went belly up! CLASS! And besides most farmers dont have 3 arms to run them off brands.
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Re: hey check yourself March 24, 2011 12:33PM
I like it Mr. Bale Buster!!
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Re: hey check yourself March 24, 2011 01:50PM
Nobody is knocking Deere, their reputation, or their customer base. They deserve to be where they are as a business, but the fact that they are still in business when other manufacturers are not does nothing to answer the OP's question or mine. Maybe they are just better farm tractors than pulling tractors. Why else would some guys farm with Deere and pull IH? Why are superfarm and similar classes almost exclusively IH? Is it because Deere has "class"? You just keep telling yourself that.
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Re: hey check yourself March 24, 2011 02:27PM
Most guys dont mind choppin on something cheaper and out dated. can you blame them, i"m not sayin ih dosnt make a good puller!just didnt make a good tractor for the times. where would they be with out truck engines?
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Re: hey check yourself March 24, 2011 04:20PM
yea how bout that big gov bailout Johnny deere got in the 1980s guess everyone forgot about that
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Re: TO MANY BIAS IN THE CROWD March 25, 2011 07:44AM
WE HAVE A FARM WHERE WE HAVE BOTH COLORS.

HERES THE DIFFERENCE WITH NO BIAS

IH WILL START ANY DAY OF THE WEEK AT ANY TEMPERATURE WITHOUT THE ETHER CAN. JOHN DEERE WILL NOT

YOU CAN RUN A JOHN DEERE'S POWERSTEERING ALL DAY AND STILL LOVE UP YOUR WOMAN AT THE END OF THE DAY. NOT WITH IH

EQUAL ON POWER, BUT EASIER TO HOP UP THE IH. BECUASE LIKE *&$@HOLES EVERYONE HAS ONE AND THE PARTS ARE OUT THERE. SO ARE THE AFTERMARKET PARTS. JD STILL MAKES PRODUCTION PARTS WHICH DRIVES AFTERMARKET PART PRICES

DEERE CABS HAVE BEEN AHEAD AND WILL ALWAYS STAY AHEAD OF THE COMPETITION.

I OWN AN OLIVER,CASE,A-C, AND I PULL A IH......ALL BECAUSE I CANT AFFORD THE JD....YET....I LET THE FARM BUY THOSE
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 24, 2011 04:04PM
i was told at work by an old boy that international boasted about their engines bragged up the best part of the tractors(400 series). he said maybe they should have bragged up the worst part of the tractor like deere did. they(deere) bragged up their transmissions. it's what you grew up with is what your going to like. but if they could get the power out of a 2 lunger, deere would still have a horizontal motor. hmm...harvester always had, from the start, upright motors. even with combines they(deere) finally has a so so combine with a rotor but the cleaning capacity is no bigger than a 2366, on their biggest machine. i think harvester had that idea in the late 70's. i guess when you see something that is great you gotta just copy it. but i will say international had their heads in the ass' when they came out with the 86 series not very convenient to operate or get in and out of the cab. but still easier than to get in and out of than any deere cab. and you didn't have to look "thru" a seem in the windshield.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 24, 2011 10:39PM
hear hear on the 86 series, and they still sold them peices of s..t
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 24, 2011 10:59PM
what are you looking at thru that seem in the windshield?? the muffler or air intake? thats all thats there.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 24, 2011 11:56PM
If I'm not mistaken, New Holland was the true innovator of the rotary combine, not IH.

And it appears that between the Cat Lexion (Claas??) and the New Holland of today, that the IH design has taken a back seat.

Of course, nobody ever said Deere had the greatest combine.

Also, the seam in the windshield was nothing, it was the curved glass that created a glare at night that was the bigger problem. Despite that, when released the design was WELL ahead of anything IH was making. They were busy still making open station tractors!!! Deere cared about comfort for the operator, and had the forsight to see where the market was going.

Speaking of IH cab design, the 66 cabs weren't any fun to get in and out of. The 86 series, my goodness, who thought up that door mounting design. It couldn't have been much worse.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 25, 2011 12:39AM
To look at it another way you should have been buying the stock in these tractor companies, Instead of the tractors . In the past 2 years Deere is up 175%, cat 275% and CNH 300%.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 25, 2011 05:34AM
but what the real harsh reality is, harvester would still be around if the union would not have broke them. same thing happened with GM. Deere is just lucky they got that bail out in the 80's. in the end the unions are what break alot of companies. who knows in 20 years case ih might not be around, deere might not be around....ill continue to like my binders. and keep looking for the deeres' hiding in the grass as i drive down the road.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 25, 2011 01:05AM
new holland is a joke. twin rotor yank. cat thats a joke. it looks like the old deeres. then they have two tubes about 20 inches in diameter. give of take couple inches. thanks to new holland case ih couldn't use the 36 inch rotor they were developing in a prototype. when nh and case ih joined they for some reason used the chassis that nh had and had to go with just a 30 inch rotor. if case ih had that 36 inch rotor ain't a thing could touch it.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 25, 2011 01:33AM
Did I hear "if" ?? (....."if case ih had that 36 inch rotor ain't a thing could touch it.")

That's exactly right, IF. That's all that needs to be said.



........on another note, fair point about investing in the stocks for said company. Hindsight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2011 09:19AM by FarmersFun.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 25, 2011 08:04AM
I didn't use the word IF in my comment . You must not bought much CNH stock two years ago. The 300% return on a $50,000 pulling tractor is $ 15,000,000 that is almost as good as pulling tractors.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 25, 2011 09:17AM
The reply with "IF" was not for you, it was for the redman 1466 post. "....if case ih had that 36 inch rotor ain't a thing could touch it." I believe was the statement I am referring to.


The stock issue makes no difference to me. I couldn't afford any of it anyways!
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 25, 2011 02:37PM
I don't know what kind of cowboy math you are using, but you sure as H%&& are not going to have that much money with a 300% return on $50,000. Better get down off that horse.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 26, 2011 10:18AM
If you owned $50,000 of CNH stock at lets say it's low (round number used) $7/share and sold at the high in the last 2 yrs, $52/share.

You originally owned 7142 shares valued at $50,000

and had the chance to sell at $52/share or value of $371,384.

This scenario assumes you bought at the low and sold at the high. But I am still way short of your $15,000,000.

300% of $50,000 is 150,000

This is more like 742% (x multiplied by 7.42) return on your money and still only equals $371,384.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 26, 2011 12:41AM
Redman,

If you and I are thinking of the same machine, you are right, even the biggest Cat would have run and hid when that monster came through the field. It had more innovations than just a big rotor. Smiling
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 25, 2011 01:33AM
I'll definitely concede the point about the 86 series IH's poor cab and control layout. The 66 series cabs were, to me anyway, roomier and easier to enter and exit than a 30 series Deere, but much noisier. Also, the 30 series having that seam between the two pieces of glass directly in front of the operator created a blind spot that I never liked. Overall, for the era, that cab was pretty nice, but the 8000 series cab is as good as it gets.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 25, 2011 07:09PM
The problem here is what your comparing at the time ih probably had the best cab on the market until jd released the 4430 and the sound guard cab. Ih did screw up by ever allowing the 86 series cab to be released but totally redemed them selves with the 88 series cabs. What should Have been compared is the ih 06 & 66 series against the jd 20 series ih by far made the better tractor and cab. Next we should compare the 86series ih and the 30 series jd and everybody knows that jd made the better cab at this time . The you have to compare the 88 series to the 40 jd which were both great tractor and both still have very high resale values. We have had alot of different brand of tractor on our farm ih and jd are by far the best but on our farm the grunt work has away been done by the red tractors the green one just cant compete but they are good comfortable tractor to do the hay harvesting with. And in the lower levels of pulling its the same way jd just cant handle those tuff ole 66 s even with there a pumps way do you think jd invented the 6030.
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Re: JD cheap tractors April 05, 2011 12:46PM
I have ran, not just driven, IH, John Deere, and New Holland.. tractors, combines, etc.... They all have their good points and bad. Each company went back and forth on design, hp, and so on just as GM, Ford, and Chrysler have throughout the years. Every one has their favorite and sometimes wont admit what the problems are,..thats ok. Personally over all pros and cons I still prefer the red tractors and the combines except for the combine heads. We run a Drago corn head and a MacDon grain head. Can't beat them no matter what new fangled gadget you spend money and add to them. Which brings me to my point. While we are arguing what color is best, likie the auto market, the over seas manufactures are knocking on our doors. We are starting to see more and more of this in the ag field. Our American companies need to be Watching out for this!
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 26, 2011 09:48AM
i work on a dairy farm that has ih the reason for that is cause there cheap to fix and the cabs blow and the shifting sucks my 4020 powershift is like a walk in the park nice and soft!!!!!!!!!!!! i seen more clutch and ta put in this ih's i think i could do it in my sleep @#$%& that green on the farm and green on the track for sure i would trade my 4020 powershift for 10 1066s
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 26, 2011 10:00AM
wouldnt
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 26, 2011 12:56AM
There's only one thing about an IH that I see (in our "stock" MPH farm classes) that makes the difference, and the reason I beleive that many IH tractors became so popular for pulling. It's when they're going down the track and running out of power, then they reach for that lever on the left side......some MM's came with their version of a TA, but didn't work as well as IH. If I know that the other guys with TA tractors are making say, 70 HP, and the TA increases pulling power by (hypothetical) 30%, I need to make at least 91 HP to have the same power at the end of the track, I've been told. Sometimes it makes IH look pretty inviting.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 26, 2011 01:18AM
I think the bottom line comes down to price. You can buy a blown up 1066 drop a dt466 in it and be going down the track with a competitive tractor for less then 10 grand.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 26, 2011 09:14AM
The difference between jd and ih is jd put their torque in the motor and ih hung theirs on the hood.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 26, 2011 12:08PM
Way 2 funny. Moody
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 26, 2011 01:02PM
I'm a through and through red fan and owner but look at it this way, if every tractor company no matter the color built a tractor that was in every way identical to the next company's tractor, then it wouldn't be very good for business on any company's part, or ours. All we would have is farm tractors that only differ in color. Just the way I view it.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 26, 2011 04:00PM
That is a very good statement
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 27, 2011 03:39AM
Nah, when JD finally caught up, they put their torque on the console and called it a Quad Range.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 27, 2011 01:11PM
that is a very true statement
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 28, 2011 12:48PM
atleast the quad didnt go out after a couple times of down-shifting it like the TA's did. You can use it whenever you wanted -not just under load... you didnt have to give the hired help a special set of directions on how to use it properly
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 29, 2011 01:35AM
wether you like it or not it is the truth
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 29, 2011 01:54PM
john deere faithful want to believe that their tractor or worth more so they are not used for pulling. will I pull a IH tractor and believe me money has nothing to do with. the guys that want to win spend what ever it takes to win what the color of the tractor.
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 29, 2011 11:12PM
It is not a "belief", it's a fact (not necessarily a good one!). You almost always pay more for the used Deere than the IH. Just like the automotive market, there is always a brand that commands a little more than the others. Why is that such a big deal?

Also, like an earlier post mentioned, pulling parts for an IH are generally a little cheaper to buy as well. How is that a bad thing for you guys?
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Re: JD cheap tractors March 30, 2011 01:21AM
doesnt hurt me at all, like you said it is a fact. deeres will always be more money
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Re: JD cheap tractors April 01, 2011 04:59AM
More of a supply and demand thing. John Deere runs well in a lot of classes right now.
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Re: JD cheap tractors April 03, 2011 07:36AM
It seems like in my area deere's dominate the big classes but can't hold a candle to anyone in the 3000RPM classes
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Re: JD cheap tractors April 04, 2011 03:05PM
What kind of tranny would work best in a 3000 rpm deere
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Re: JD cheap tractors April 06, 2011 11:37AM
anyone
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