Simms Pump Question May 08, 2011 11:40AM
I am trying to get a farm stock puller together for this season but I am having any issue that seems odd. The engine has been completely gone through, cylinders have been bored, and honed .030, new pistons and rings, the crank was in great shape so I just stuck a new set of bearing on there. The injection pump and injectors were both upgraded by a local shop. It holds great oil pressure and starts instantly/ The issue I am having is that I am getting a bit of extra clatter leading to almost a miss from 1 cylinder. I isolated the issue to #6 cylinder by loosening the injector lines one by one. I was hoping it was just an injector that was leaking or cracking too early but I swapped injectors between a couple other cylinders and the problem stayed at #6. I pulled the head back off and checked for any issue that could have caused it, but everything checked out, the cylinders all looked good and there was nothing to indicate there was any trouble. I put it back together with a new gasket and started it back up with the same issue. I was told by someone that there is a possibility that the pump is delivering fuel to #6 cylinder too soon and I am getting timing knock from just that one cylinder. To test the idea I set the timing back a couple degrees from where I had it set (28 btdc) and the loudness of the clatter decreased a lot but it is definitely still there and if I loosen the #6 injector line, the engine gets considerably quieter and smoother. Once the injector line is first tightened back down on the #6 cylinder, the engine completely smooths out for about 30 seconds and then the additional clatter comes back and the engine sounds a lot noisier than I think it should be. Has anyone ever had an issue like this before? Any ideas? Is there a way to test the injection pump to see if one plunger is delivering fuel sooner than it should? I would think the only way that could happen is if something was wrong with the cam in the injection pump. The pump was just built by a shop but I hate to have to take it off and take it back to him if that is not the issue, because I may have to wait several more weeks just to get my pump back.
Reply Quote

Re: Simms Pump Question May 08, 2011 11:52AM
Here is a video of the engine idling and you can hear the additional clatter to the engine on just one cylinder, this was before retarding the riming a couple degrees, it's not at approximately 26 btdc and still apparent but not as loud as in this video.
Reply Quote

Re: Simms Pump Question May 08, 2011 01:36PM
Could it be possible that you switched two of the injector lines? I seen a 6.5 diesel that somebody did this to and it had a serious diesel knock. Although it also had alot of smoke. On that engine, I believe that one of the crossed up cylinders was firing early and this caused the knock. The other cylinder was firing late and this caused the smoke. I just thought I would mention this just in case this is your problem.
Reply Quote

Re: Simms Pump Question May 08, 2011 02:25PM
Mine is not really smoking that much at idle, and it would be difficult without bending a line to get them out of order. Although I agree with you that it would cause the issues that you describe if the lines where to get mixed up.
Reply Quote

Re: Simms Pump Question May 08, 2011 01:43PM
i have had this problem,who did your pump if you do not want to tell me i under stand but this can happen easy
When they calibrate the pump they have to adjust the barrels and rack and can havr the delivery time off and it will sound very bad
Reply Quote

Re: Simms Pump Question May 08, 2011 02:15PM
I would rather not say anything that may hurt someones reputation. I will give him a call in the morning and see if he can have a look at it and hopefully resolve the issue.

I was hoping that someone out there had some experience with this particular issue, seemed like some people I talked to didn't think it was possible, and I really couldn't find anything else that could be causing the issue.
Reply Quote

Re: Simms Pump Question May 08, 2011 01:56PM
I believe the firing order is the same as a 466 Deere engine. Put a timing light on the number 1 cylinder, on the injection line approx. 1 or 2 inches above the pump. If you do not have a timing mark on the balancer, make a mark and check it until you can see it on the number 1 cylinder with the light. Then move the timing light to the number 6 line. The timing mark should be in the same position as it is on the number 1 cylinder. If it is, your pump is just "hot" at idle on the number 6 cylinder--in other words, at an idle it is giving number 6 more fuel than other cylinders. The pump shop probably balanced the fuel on all cylinders at full fuel, not at an idle. Do not be afraid to call the pump shop and ask questions. If you paid your bill, ask questions and learn. Don't take the pump off and send it in without talking to them. Never be afraid to ask questions. You need to do as much of your own work as you can, and the only way to learn is ask questions of the shop where you do business.
Reply Quote

Re: Simms Pump Question May 08, 2011 02:11PM
I paid my bill and me and the pump shop guy are on good terms, I just wanted to make sure it seemed logical that this could be caused by the pump because I didn't want him to tell me it must be something in the engine and blow me off, when I have checked everything 10 times and know it's nothing with the engine.

The pump shop guy did tell me he had trouble balancing fuel flow out of my pump and had to swap heads with another parts pump. I wouldn't mind if the noise went away above idle, but it appears to still be there, it's just less noticeable as the RPMs increase, It is most noticeable at idle.
Reply Quote

Re: Simms Pump Question May 08, 2011 02:56PM
Your pumps should be set to deliver equal fuel at max fuel so it is possible that when the pump is at idle it will have a high cylinder which gives you a knock. If it is phased properly the knock shouldn't hurt anything because as you give it throttle the remainder cylinders will catch up. Just tell your pump guy to lower your number six fuel amount if its hammering that bad.
Reply Quote

Re: Simms Pump Question May 09, 2011 12:19PM
curt is correct,that pump surely is out of balance,and maybe the fuel delivery is just too high on no. 6 .. have him recheck the phasing also,, a clyinder that is phased way early will knock,,
Reply Quote

Re: Simms Pump Question May 09, 2011 02:45PM
I took it back to the guy today, and he said he would have a look at it and see if something slipped inside. He never mentioned phasing, he just said maybe something slipped and it is putting out more fuel on the #6 cylinder. Hopefully I will have it back by next week and hopefully everything is good to go.
Reply Quote

Re: Simms Pump Question May 09, 2011 03:18PM
curt is right the calibration is off,just like blueberry said earlier,it has to be ballanced,some times when you run bigger pluggers it gets off balance at idle,but if the plungers are smaller it should not be a problem
Reply Quote

Re: Simms Pump Question May 09, 2011 03:26PM
Right now it is only slightly larger at 9.5mm. I plan on going bigger as times go on, but I hope that I don't have to deal with it running like this. There are tractors that have much larger simms pumps (11mm) in the same class that I run in and they don't knock at idle like mine has since I had the pump redone.
Reply Quote

Re: Simms Pump Question August 23, 2015 03:07AM
How do you test fuel injector pump simms
Reply Quote

Newer Topic Older Topic

Author:

Your Email:


Subject:
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically. If the code is hard to read, then just try to guess it right. If you enter the wrong code, a new image is created and you get another chance to enter it right.
Message:
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,779, Posts: 229,957, Members: 3,338.
This forum: Topics: 37,098, Posts: 226,040.

Our newest member Jacklovik2009