Taxes January 26, 2023 07:33AM
Who's in favor of abolishing the IRS and paying a 30% national sales tax? That would sure kill my tractor pulling addition.

Re: Taxes January 26, 2023 01:29PM
I am very much in favor of atleast some form of it. More so if its structured like a consumption tax on first time purchase only. Income tax will always be a joke. Regardless of the rate those with money and any business sense will always find the loopholes, deductions, or simply just past the cost on to the consumer. If it would "kill your tractor pulling addition" i don't think anyone should feel sorry for you. A lot of us, myself included get by far to easily by deducting everything as an expense and paying little to no taxes. If we abolished all other taxes at federal and state level and did a flat consumption tax it would be the most fair for everyone by far. No more worry about under the table cash or other illegal type business skirting the system. Very simple those who make more spend more and in that will pay more.

On a side note the state of Nebraska has been trying to pass a consumption tax to not just solve the property tax disaster in that state but completely eliminate it. Sounds possible it could make it to the 2024 ballot hopfully.

Would there be a big adjustment period yes. Would it be worth it, most definitely.

Re: Taxes January 26, 2023 02:07PM
Another point. Think of it like the gas tax aside from the new dillema EVs bring.

Gas tax goes towards roads and bridges, atleast its supposed to. The more you drive the more you use the roads the more gas you buy the more tax you pay. Can't get more fair then that.

Re: Taxes January 26, 2023 02:27PM
I can't help but think it would put a serious damper on capitalism. Maybe repairing or rebuilding something instead of always buying new is not such a bad idea though.

Re: Taxes January 26, 2023 11:59PM
I see your point on putting a damper on capitalism, but dosent the current system also do that. Taxing peoples income and at a higher rate the more income they make. Literally punishing people for being successful and working hard. I just feel a consumption tax would be more transparent to where people would see the money they spend in taxes and hopfully become more involved in how our government spends it.

Current system for the average joe. He makes $15 a hour, works 40 hours a week. Take home pay is $480. This is all he really looks at and understands. But $15 at 40 hours is $600 not $480 his take home pay is equivalent to only $12 an hour. Plus his employer had to match his Social Security and Medicare so joe cost his employer $660 for that same 40 hour week or $16.50 an hour. This system works because sadly most dont actually understand it. If joe got payed the full $660 a week take home for his work then seen how the government is funded by paying in the tax when he spends his money joe might actually pay more attention the next time the government signs a 2 trillion dollar spending package and vote different in the next election. This is the real reason things are done the way they are.

Re: Taxes January 27, 2023 06:36AM
Do away with deductions from paychecks and make everybody write a check to the IRS every 2 weeks. That's the only way a lot of people will ever realize how much of their wages is being taken for taxes. Maybe then people would begin to understand. Problem is, most people wouldn't be smart enough to set that aside for taxes.
If you think there wouldn't be exceptions written in for favored groups if there is a national consumption tax, you are living in La-La Land. The politicians will always take care of the people who give them money.

Re: Taxes January 27, 2023 06:59AM
Of course there would be exceptions written into a consumption tax. Never once thought there wouldn't be. As for who would get them i would bet money all ag inputs such as seed, fertilizer, and chemicals would be the first to be exempt from the tax.

I will never be for taxing income and punishing people for working harder and making more. There is a better way.

Re: Taxes January 27, 2023 08:35AM
Once they get rid of the cash it won’t matter how they tax us we’ll all be screwed because it will all be automated, you will just scan your bar code on your forehead and it’ll all be good, so they will tell you, as for me I’ll pass and go back a couple hundred years

Re: Taxes January 28, 2023 08:38AM
Digital dollar will be great... they'll tell us how great it will be and the government wouldn't lie to us. They won't monitor every single thing we buy, how we donate, where we tithe, etc.... The government won't regulate what you can buy, like a gas stove or furnace or meat. The government won't control you're spending habits due to some "crisis" like climate change, a pandemic, your ESG score (which is just our version of Chinas social credit system). Don't worry about it, the government cares for you and they're here to help! All joking aside, sadly the digital dollar will be here sooner than we think and it will have some seriously bad consequences for the average American. The digital dollar will usher in a whole new level of control... a nanny state the likes of which the World has never seen.

Back on topic I'm all for a consumption tax. Taxing people on their wages, then taxing them again on good investing (often with money they were already taxed on because they EARNED it), some states now want an annual tax on your total worldwide net worth (including property and all other assets), then a death tax, and an inheritance tax, along with all the existing sales and use taxes... how many times is the same dollar you earned currently taxed in your lifetime and beyond?

A one time consumption tax at point of purchase makes sense to me. Seems simple. No exemptions for salary, no exemptions for food, no exemptions for clothes, no exemptions for EV's, no exemption for anything. Just a simple tax on all goods and services is what I'd like to see. I believe in capitalisms, but I don't believe in gluttony. I believe in resourcefulness and fixing things rather than a disposable society. I believe in a simple tax structure rather than a gigantic IRS that says they "need" to hire 87,000 new IRS agents who are wiling to use deadly force. I'll take a simply to understand sales tax with no exemptions vs the convoluted garbage we currently have.



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Independent Pulling News



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Re: Taxes January 28, 2023 02:14PM
There are a few states who have no income tax and the get along just fine. The current income tax system is unconstitutional and also discriminates to many US people. The IRS is one of the most corrupt entities on the face of the planet. Thats why our wonderful government created thousands more jobs to be a part of the most corrupt entity to steal from the people of this country. The IRS and our government is out of control and picking up steam. Only thing that will ever fix it now is another tea party only on a much larger scale!!
On topic now I believe that a fixed sales tax across the board is fair for everyone. No loop holes no complicated tax laws, straight up 10 to 15 percent sales tax and never look back.

Re: Taxes January 30, 2023 02:59AM
I don't mind a flat consumption tax but 30% on a home purchase....ouch.

Avg home price is $350k and 30% is $105k added to a mortgage over 30 years is an extra $700 a month and $140k in interest.

Re: Taxes January 30, 2023 03:15AM
I agree the initial shock at purchase would be big, but if it eliminated property tax and all other taxes i believe in the long run it would be worth it.

Plus if its truly a consumption tax only at first purchase it would only apply to new houses. And even then I am not completely sure if the material's to build the house would be taxed or be exempt and the house taxed as a whole. To do both would be overkill I would think.

Re: Taxes January 30, 2023 03:54AM
Not sure if that would be a sustainable model. Eventually a municipality would run out of new homes (or enough new homes) and if that's the case who keeps up the city or schools? I suppose all schools could become private and then you pay for each kid that goes there but I bet that would cost a lot. Private school in MN costs between $30k-$40k/year.

I can see a flat consumption tax working for most everything though.

Re: Taxes January 30, 2023 04:12AM
Even without new homes being build people would still be purchasing new materials for remodeling and home improvements so the income stream should always be there.

As for funding the schools. Personally I would like to see it the same as how our gas tax goes to roads. So the consumption tax collected on kids cloths, school supplies, toys, etc. would be allocated specifically for funding schools.

Obviously I don't have all the awnsers. I just truly believe there is a much better and simpler way to fund our government then the current system.

Re: Taxes January 30, 2023 11:13AM
Quote
TripleAlphaProcess
Not sure if that would be a sustainable model. Eventually a municipality would run out of new homes (or enough new homes) and if that's the case who keeps up the city or schools? I suppose all schools could become private and then you pay for each kid that goes there but I bet that would cost a lot. Private school in MN costs between $30k-$40k/year.

I can see a flat consumption tax working for most everything though.

My wife and I's answer to high priced schooling is home schooling........we did so with both our boys, still doing it with the youngest.
I can see that option not being an option for most.

Re: Taxes January 31, 2023 03:23AM
Quote
JDpowershift

Not sure if that would be a sustainable model. Eventually a municipality would run out of new homes (or enough new homes) and if that's the case who keeps up the city or schools? I suppose all schools could become private and then you pay for each kid that goes there but I bet that would cost a lot. Private school in MN costs between $30k-$40k/year.

I can see a flat consumption tax working for most everything though.

My wife and I's answer to high priced schooling is home schooling........we did so with both our boys, still doing it with the youngest.
I can see that option not being an option for most.

Agree on both points. If I remember correctly, just over 63% of households have both parents working.

The other thing I was thinking about in regards to the mortgage is, I'm guessing most banks would limit how much of the 30% tax you could put into a mortgage, just like they limit the amount of closing costs you can add in. If you want to avoid PMI you have to put 20% down and now add 30% to that and you're talking a 50% downpayment. Not even half of the people can afford 20% (44% of home buyers) let alone 50%. The simple answer there could be don't buy a new home since the taxes only apply to "new" construction but then you have a whole new problem. How many construction workers are now out of a job because the number of new homes being built crashes?

Maybe keep the flat tax on most everything except homes? Keep property taxes there to constantly maintain the community (schools, roads, public parks...etc)? The consumption tax maintains everything else and most "free" amenities today are now subject to purchase and corresponding tax? This is basically how Florida operates. Property taxes are high, no state income tax, and a modest sales tax of 6% (with a few exceptions).

Re: Taxes January 31, 2023 06:02AM
Quote
TripleAlphaProcess


Not sure if that would be a sustainable model. Eventually a municipality would run out of new homes (or enough new homes) and if that's the case who keeps up the city or schools? I suppose all schools could become private and then you pay for each kid that goes there but I bet that would cost a lot. Private school in MN costs between $30k-$40k/year.

I can see a flat consumption tax working for most everything though.

My wife and I's answer to high priced schooling is home schooling........we did so with both our boys, still doing it with the youngest.
I can see that option not being an option for most.

Agree on both points. If I remember correctly, just over 63% of households have both parents working.

The other thing I was thinking about in regards to the mortgage is, I'm guessing most banks would limit how much of the 30% tax you could put into a mortgage, just like they limit the amount of closing costs you can add in. If you want to avoid PMI you have to put 20% down and now add 30% to that and you're talking a 50% downpayment. Not even half of the people can afford 20% (44% of home buyers) let alone 50%. The simple answer there could be don't buy a new home since the taxes only apply to "new" construction but then you have a whole new problem. How many construction workers are now out of a job because the number of new homes being built crashes?

Maybe keep the flat tax on most everything except homes? Keep property taxes there to constantly maintain the community (schools, roads, public parks...etc)? The consumption tax maintains everything else and most "free" amenities today are now subject to purchase and corresponding tax? This is basically how Florida operates. Property taxes are high, no state income tax, and a modest sales tax of 6% (with a few exceptions).


Thing is, property taxes are just plain wrong.
One is penalized just because they "have" something or have become successful.
Why should some farmer be forced to pay more than the next person because he owns a lot of acrage ?
My dad paid out through the nose because he owned around 250 acres with many building , not to mention the three homes on them.
I Guarentee what he was paying was equivalent to what many people in some of the homes in town pay combined......THAT IS NOT RIGHT..
I bet my back side, if most of those people in town had to pay what he was paying , they'd quit voting for all the levies that are put on the local ballet every year.
Property taxes need to go....PERIOD !
I own the farm now, so yes, I now get the shaft in the ass over property taxes.

Re: Taxes January 31, 2023 06:53AM
If I lived in a state with low property tax I might have a different opinion. But I live in Nebraska where or property taxes are extremely high. When your forced to pay over $100 an acre in property taxes and then add in your personal property taxes on all your equipment and pay in $60,000 a year just property taxes you will tend to develop a serious sour taste for property taxes. I absolutely hate property tax. Yes we get exemptions on sales tax in this state as a farm or business on almost everything. But I would much rather pay sales tax on everything and fix our property tax disaster. The state of Nebraska has a consumption tax plan that can't get enough votes in our stupid unicameral system we have here. It needs passed. This is why I am so passionate about this issue.
Sorry for the rant, but I hate property taxes.

Re: Taxes February 01, 2023 03:37AM
Don't you get to deduct property taxes off your farm income? I have a motorsports business LLC and I get to deduct my property tax.

Re: Taxes February 01, 2023 01:28PM
Quote
TripleAlphaProcess
Don't you get to deduct property taxes off your farm income? I have a motorsports business LLC and I get to deduct my property tax.

Ya, I get to deduct my property taxes "after I pay them".

Your point ? (Not trying to be snarky)

Re: Taxes February 02, 2023 01:56AM
Just that the actual amount of property tax you pay in a year is significantly lower than what you are "charged" because you can deduct it off your income.

Re: Taxes February 02, 2023 02:04AM
Sorry if my response ticks off any but I am going to state some facts leave ss and Medicare alone the government since the 1950s have used the funds that every one has paid in to float wars, fund the government spending when Congress can’t get it together. I hear so many who want to get rid of irs , they must have issues with the irs . The problem with our current situation is that our previous President and even current one have literally handed out trillions to businesses that in many cases don’t need it. I get calls daily in regards to the latest program that each business can get up to $26,000 for every employee that your company could provide records that they were on your payroll any time between 2020 and 2022. This credit can be applied for up to 100 employees! Do that math, how many of these same companies already got mega millions under Ppp loans that were forgotten by Congress and signed off by 45.

We can all bitch about this but the facts are still the facts Congress catering to the wealthy lobbyists who don’t give a damn about 95 percent of Americans! Why is this because the top 5% of the nation control nearly 65% of the nations wealth. So the wealthy certainly are not going to want a flat tax as they already have the life. I read some comments on here of just having a flat tax of 30%.

It sounds good but if you are a billionaire businessman are u going to absorb all the taxes for your profit ? I will say heck know they will pass it on as higher prices to the end consumer.

That is how they became billionaire businessman to start with by passing on the costs, that is same to be said with the thought of charging higher tariffs on goods from China and other places. Okay perfect people still need or want it so guess what the customer pays for it not Chinese as so many people think.

The real problem in this nation is that we don’t teach the basics in our high schools in regards to how Financial system works along with how governments work both in our nation and in the world. We have screwed over our generations by getting rid of many things in education because it might offend some one because of some religious , political ,social ,personal views.

This is why in my opinion this nation is more divided than it was back in the 1960’s

It is very sad that when you look at our current leadership in Congress and how they conduct business that any other people from another nation can think of as beacon of light of freedom.

This nation has literally went backwards in so many ways over the last two decades it is sad.

My biggest concern is for my children and future grandchildren as they are the ones who are going to be paying all the debts that have been created by our generation over the last few decades.

If our current leadership does not start to listen to what our military advisers and other who have provided rather reliable information over the last 50 years soon our nation might find it self involved in another war,one that this nation and world is not prepared to fight.

The war in the Ukraine is not the only thing we need to be watching as places like China are ramping up not to mention Iran, NK ,Syria

We can all sit back here at home and pretend that we don’t have any thing we can do about it or we can actually take a moment and contact our federal elected leadership and ask them what they plan to do

If we want to be pulling trucks, tractors in twenty plus years we need to start to work on getting our nation back.

This will be done by getting rid of all the people who are not working for the average people! It will take a few elections but it can be done

God Bless the USA

Salute to all our service members, veterans, public service, teachers, truckers and most of all our Farmers and all the laborers who help get the food from farm to market

Re: Taxes February 02, 2023 03:45AM
Very well thought out an stated, I agree, Nation is in a mess for sure, only thing I'd add would be thank God each an every day, and ask for forgiveness, because IMO --- it's a sign of the times !!!! Just hope everyone gets right with the good Lord above before it's too late !!!!

Re: Taxes February 02, 2023 04:16AM
Yepx2

Re: Taxes February 02, 2023 04:36AM
Thank you !!!!

Re: Taxes March 10, 2023 01:23AM
Quote
Just another day under the sun
Sorry if my response ticks off any but I am going to state some facts leave ss and Medicare alone the government since the 1950s have used the funds that every one has paid in to float wars, fund the government spending when Congress can’t get it together. I hear so many who want to get rid of irs , they must have issues with the irs . The problem with our current situation is that our previous President and even current one have literally handed out trillions to businesses that in many cases don’t need it. I get calls daily in regards to the latest program that each business can get up to $26,000 for every employee that your company could provide records that they were on your payroll any time between 2020 and 2022. This credit can be applied for up to 100 employees! Do that math, how many of these same companies already got mega millions under Ppp loans that were forgotten by Congress and signed off by 45.

We can all bitch about this but the facts are still the facts Congress catering to the wealthy lobbyists who don’t give a damn about 95 percent of Americans! Why is this because the top 5% of the nation control nearly 65% of the nations wealth. So the wealthy certainly are not going to want a flat tax as they already have the life. I read some comments on here of just having a flat tax of 30%.

It sounds good but if you are a billionaire businessman are u going to absorb all the taxes for your profit ? I will say heck know they will pass it on as higher prices to the end consumer.

That is how they became billionaire businessman to start with by passing on the costs, that is same to be said with the thought of charging higher tariffs on goods from China and other places. Okay perfect people still need or want it so guess what the customer pays for it not Chinese as so many people think.

The real problem in this nation is that we don’t teach the basics in our high schools in regards to how Financial system works along with how governments work both in our nation and in the world. We have screwed over our generations by getting rid of many things in education because it might offend some one because of some religious , political ,social ,personal views.

This is why in my opinion this nation is more divided than it was back in the 1960’s

It is very sad that when you look at our current leadership in Congress and how they conduct business that any other people from another nation can think of as beacon of light of freedom.

This nation has literally went backwards in so many ways over the last two decades it is sad.

My biggest concern is for my children and future grandchildren as they are the ones who are going to be paying all the debts that have been created by our generation over the last few decades.

If our current leadership does not start to listen to what our military advisers and other who have provided rather reliable information over the last 50 years soon our nation might find it self involved in another war,one that this nation and world is not prepared to fight.

The war in the Ukraine is not the only thing we need to be watching as places like China are ramping up not to mention Iran, NK ,Syria

We can all sit back here at home and pretend that we don’t have any thing we can do about it or we can actually take a moment and contact our federal elected leadership and ask them what they plan to do

If we want to be pulling trucks, tractors in twenty plus years we need to start to work on getting our nation back.

This will be done by getting rid of all the people who are not working for the average people! It will take a few elections but it can be done

God Bless the USA

Salute to all our service members, veterans, public service, teachers, truckers and most of all our Farmers and all the laborers who help get the food from farm to market

I agree with every thing you said except for the reason this country is so divided. The libs have gone so far to the left they have become Marxist, they dont even bother to hide it any more.

The corruption has moved beyond banana republic realm, Twitter files, Jan6, the Gov with held evidence, destroyed evidence, lied, all the cases against the rioters will be thrown out because of the Brady law. Bail reform??? Mental. The list is endless, I dont want to get too far off subject.

Re: Taxes February 13, 2023 01:49PM
Why pay one tax just to deduct that amount from another tax. Obviously one of the two taxes is unnecessary in the first place.

Re: Taxes February 06, 2023 01:44PM
We moved from Nebraska to Missouri. This bottom ground with pivots on it is $10 per acre tax. Our house is $6000 per yr in Missouri and would be close to 25k per yr in Nebraska

Re: Taxes February 07, 2023 01:39PM
The flat/consumption tax would be a great way for congress to pull the rug from under everyone that has been investing in Roth IRA’s

Re: Taxes February 13, 2023 07:34AM
If a consumption tax was put in place you could invest your roth however you wanted going forward. You wouldn't be out anymore then everyone else thats been paying into the unfair tax system for years.
The mindset of being scared of change should not hinder progress and a possibility at a better future.

Re: Taxes March 05, 2023 09:25AM
It’s not how the Roth is invested, it’s what happens when you retire and start pulling money from the Roth. Under the current tax system withdrawals, both principle and earnings are free from income tax. If there is no income tax, and simply a consumption tax you lose the benefit of the Roth. This can be offset if they give a consumption tax rebate on Roth withdrawals. If this talk gets more serious we need to make sure that is included.

I’m actually a fan of the sales/consumption tax as long as they don’t screw over those of us that have been investing on the promises being made in the current system. A sales/consumption tax hits more of the population such as illegals and those working for cash. Obviously cash/barter transactions would be outside of the system, but they already are. There would probably be a refund of taxes up to a certain amount to offset the regressive nature of this type of tax, that is reasonable to me as long as it’s only for residents and documented foreign nationals.

Re: Taxes March 07, 2023 11:49PM
With a roth you pay your tax then invest so your growth is tax free. With a traditional you don't pay the tax invest get growth grom the money you didnt pay taxes on and then pay the tax when you withdraw. So if we go to a consumption tax those with a traditional would benefit yes. But i do not see why the roth would need to be treated special you paid you income tax before like everyone else has that invested or spent income threw the years. I don't see this as screwing the roth people but benefiting the traditional. Yes kinda sucks but going forward the benefit would be worth it. Just simply not having to deal with all the different ways to invest and simply do what you want would be incredible.

Re: Taxes March 08, 2023 11:33PM
Quote
Not Really
With a roth you pay your tax then invest so your growth is tax free. With a traditional you don't pay the tax invest get growth grom the money you didnt pay taxes on and then pay the tax when you withdraw. So if we go to a consumption tax those with a traditional would benefit yes. But i do not see why the roth would need to be treated special you paid you income tax before like everyone else has that invested or spent income threw the years. I don't see this as screwing the roth people but benefiting the traditional. Yes kinda sucks but going forward the benefit would be worth it. Just simply not having to deal with all the different ways to invest and simply do what you want would be incredible.

Same view I have on this also.
All the money invested in my roth's. the tax has already been paid.

Re: Taxes March 17, 2023 02:44PM
The difference is that if in 2025 they do away with Income Tax and replace with a 30% sales tax, both money from your Roth that is supposed to be tax free and money from your traditional IRA will be withdrawn tax free, but both will be taxed when you spend it. Big advantage for the traditional.

Taking it to an extreme, if I retire and have all of my money in a Roth, under the current system I would be done playing federal taxes, where if you invested all of your retirement savings in a traditional IRA your withdrawals would be treated just like your paycheck is treated now. If they adopt the above sales tax, both of us would pay 30% of every dollar we spend to the Feds. The problem is that if you and I had worked and lived side by side, having the same income and same living expenses, your traditional account would be significantly larger than my Roth because I had to take income taxes out of mine before investing it.

Re: Taxes May 27, 2023 04:06AM
Ron DeSantis says hes for abolishing the IRS and instituting a flat tax. There may be hope for this actually becoming a reality.

Ron DeSantis 2024

Re: Taxes May 29, 2023 10:22AM
There will still be exceptions made for certain groups to get favorable treatment. Too many democrats will never go for it, and plenty of republicans don't want it, either.

Re: Taxes May 30, 2023 06:54AM
No system will ever be perfect, but that should not prevent us from changing and trying different ways. The current system is terrible and only benefits the extremely poor who live off the government and dont care anyway. Or the extremely rich who can hire teams of accountants to find every loophole and deduction possible or better yet start up a "none profit" and launder money tax free.

Ron DeSantis 2024
DeSantis/Haley 2024

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