Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 16, 2019 07:25AM
With all the rule ideas being Floated out there where will the 10,000 Lb Pros End up in the whole deal of to Limit Charger to say 5.7 or something ??? Is it better to Give the Budget tractors a better even playin field to risk loosing the Big Unlimited Budget tractors? or vice versa ????
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 16, 2019 08:08AM
In my opinion this is why there are limited pro and light pro classes if you want to run with them with lesser equipment that’s your choice but don’t slow them down because you can’t keep up .
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 16, 2019 09:02AM
Exactly. How many limited-charger-make-rules-just-for-me classes do you want?

CP
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 16, 2019 01:20PM
Rule should read single stage turbo system. Would be a lot cheaper than unlimited single.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 17, 2019 07:59AM
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truck puller
Rule should read single stage turbo system. Would be a lot cheaper than unlimited single.

Folks are trying to cut costs, and you suggest this.... You better take cover, because heads are about to explode.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 17, 2019 10:08AM
You can easily make the same/more power as current big singles with two smaller cheaper more reliable turbos.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 17, 2019 10:35AM
Then you would have a super stock.....
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 17, 2019 10:39AM
Superstocks are all multi stage systems. Single stage turbo system using 1,2 or 6 turbos is the exact same as a single turbo with one big advantage. That advantage is you don't have to pay these outrageous prices for these large unlimited singles for the same power.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 17, 2019 10:49AM
Sounds good in theory tell me what about this system prevents one from buying and utilizing the power potential of these outrageous turbo’s of which you speak except now in duplicate, triplicate, etc
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 17, 2019 10:59AM
It would be no different that someone going and installing a much larger turbo that everyone is currently using. The engine size limits how much turbine you can use based on rpm. Single stage system allows for much cheaper turbines and base turbos to be used saving a ton of money making the same horsepower. Sounds like you are against this idea because you have an unlimited budget and this would allow teams with a lower budget catch you. Many teams in any superstock class have less money in their three turbos than prostock pullers have in one turbo.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 17, 2019 11:12AM
2 questions:

1. If a ss turbo system is so much cheaper than a single pro why is there a 4-5/1 prostock to superstock ratio?

2. If you use cheap turbo’s to make more power, why won’t you make even more power with highly modified turbo’s of which are typically more expensive?


I don’t think you understand tractor pulling, you can start off going a cheaper route but rest assured you won’t end up on the same path you started or you’ll be last
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 17, 2019 11:28AM
I never said a superstock tractor was cheaper. I said their turbo system is cheaper. Which is a big difference. Multistage systems are a lot harder on parts than single stage systems and this is what hurts superstock classes.

Even two highly modified turbos as you would call it are far cheaper than current prostock turbos.

I think there are a lot of people even pullers that don't realize how unmodified their turbos really are. Machining a compressor housing to fit a larger billet wheel inst rocket science.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 17, 2019 01:02PM
Your idea makes sense in the short term. The problem is, what happens when someone figures out how to make 2 of the current turbo work? Now, you have doubled the cost, and increased power by who knows how much.

Maybe that is an extreme example, but it wasn't that many years ago that no one thought you would ever see a PS tractor with a 5" turbo....
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 17, 2019 01:07PM
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truck puller
I never said a superstock tractor was cheaper. I said their turbo system is cheaper. Which is a big difference. Multistage systems are a lot harder on parts than single stage systems and this is what hurts superstock classes.

Even two highly modified turbos as you would call it are far cheaper than current prostock turbos.

I think there are a lot of people even pullers that don't realize how unmodified their turbos really are. Machining a compressor housing to fit a larger billet wheel inst rocket science.

Your above statement that I made red. Not so true these days. Top diesel SS tractors are using turbos every bit as custom, and expensive as the PS tractors are, but in greater quantities. If you are using off the shelf, or lightly modified turbos in that class, you are not winning.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 17, 2019 03:15PM
I would not call machining a compressor cover to fit a larger billet wheel custom but its clearly easy to sell them as such and charge what they do.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 18, 2019 11:46AM
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truck puller
I would not call machining a compressor cover to fit a larger billet wheel custom but its clearly easy to sell them as such and charge what they do.

Neither would I. Talk to the pullers that are winning (pulls and points) on the GN level in Diesel SS, see if those are the only modifications that are being made to their turbos. I've got a pretty good idea what their answer would be.

I really get amused at subjects like this, and at theories like yours.
Concerning the subject in general:
Does the PS class actually want turbo limits? I'm not sure they do, and I'm not sure that putting a size limit on PS turbos will cut costs.

Concerning your theory:
I have to question the name you chose for yourself. Are you actually a puller? If so, I have to think you are a relatively new puller. While not a puller myself, I've been around and involved in pulling for a long time. I've observed pulling and pullers from the stands, the pits, and the shops of competitors (my hands have gotten dirty working on several vehicles). One thing I have learned, is that pullers will spend whatever they have to within (and sometimes exceeding) their means, to have the latest, greatest part, system, component, etc in their effort to win. Additionally the shops providing those parts, systems, and components will strive to always have another latest and greatest, proprietary item to sell. That leads directly to custom parts. In the case of turbos, custom covers, billet wheels, custom fin geometries and configurations.

With the rise of availability of dyno time, pullers are testing every part, or combination of parts searching for that elusive 100, 50, 10, 5, or even 1 horsepower that someone else does not have. It's human nature, if a better widget exists, people will buy it, especially when talking about a competition scenario.

Now, for the real kicker. Pulling (or any motorsport) at a level equal to NTPA Grand National, or PPL Champions Tour, is not, should not, and will never be affordable to everyone. Honestly, to paraphrase what one PS has said, if you can't afford an annual, or semi-annual update to your vehicle in the price range under 10% of the total cost of the vehicle, perhaps you are in the wrong class.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 19, 2019 08:42AM
can you tell the difference of the champions tour or ntpa grand versus an outlaws hook if they are all making close I don't know that you could see much variation
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 17, 2019 04:24PM
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ABOBB

I never said a superstock tractor was cheaper. I said their turbo system is cheaper. Which is a big difference. Multistage systems are a lot harder on parts than single stage systems and this is what hurts superstock classes.

Even two highly modified turbos as you would call it are far cheaper than current prostock turbos.

I think there are a lot of people even pullers that don't realize how unmodified their turbos really are. Machining a compressor housing to fit a larger billet wheel inst rocket science.

Your above statement that I made red. Not so true these days. Top diesel SS tractors are using turbos every bit as custom, and expensive as the PS tractors are, but in greater quantities. If you are using off the shelf, or lightly modified turbos in that class, you are not winning.

And you might not be winning a pull, but you might be winning a points race.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 18, 2019 12:30PM
OK. Let's accept your premise. How are you going to keep 2, 3 or even 6, individual chargers lit down track while waiting out the extra duration in between impulses on the turbine? Especially if you are merging the intakes across them all. I don't see that working against a single unit getting 6 pulses to drive it under load. Ever.

CP
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 18, 2019 01:50AM
Outlaw pros have a turbo limit. Doug Roberts did it right. They have great numbers and most importantly they are keeping equipment together.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 18, 2019 01:59AM
They are also a minimum of 1500 horsepower lower so there’s that
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 19, 2019 08:49AM
And that 1500hp shortage really doesn't matter when all are on the same playing field. It makes for a good show. The numbers keep increasing so guys running it must like it.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 19, 2019 09:13AM
Only real issue I see with it is their pros aren’t their highest horsepower single charger class. From a fan perspective it’d be nice if they upgraded to a better box charger to put them back on top. However it’s probably cheaper than building a 4.1 and as you say if they are satisfied then so be it
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 19, 2019 09:24AM
90% of the 4.1's in the country would beat any one of the outlaw Pro Stocks.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 20, 2019 02:31AM
You're crazy if you think any 4.1 can beat an Outlaw Pro. The 4.1s jumped up with the outlaw pros at a brush pull and the closet 4.1 was 50ft behind. Pretty well shut them guys up from thinking that they could beat a pro.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 20, 2019 03:34AM
No way 50 feet. 10 to 15 feet maybe. There not so "box" charger makes at the very best 2700 to 2800 hp. Limited pros are making 2500. Wagler obviously more. Stamp it.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 20, 2019 06:48AM
It was 50ft. Was there and watched the pull. 2700 might be the bottom of the class but definately not the highest horse in the class. Think what you want but have seen plenty of 4.1s hook with an Outlaw pro or 2 thinking they can beat them/knock on their back door and get made fools everytime. Maybe Wagler could get close on the right track, but definately not the 90% of the 4.1s in the country like you think.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 19, 2019 10:00AM
Hell just leave prostock alone with the big checkbooks and big egos that's what they want and apparently can afford so let them run there own course and not worry about them.
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Re: Big Pro Turbo Limits ??? September 20, 2019 10:28AM
Let them run as big a turbo as they want , ones that don't like it to bad find a different class, if the class dies - oh well that's how it works
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