making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 29, 2013 10:40AM
We are currently working on a light limited turbo diesel only class

rules will be 3"x 3" small foot turbo , roll cage and all safety equipment

tie bars or tube frames. 470 cid limit 18.4-38 any cut tires.

p pump, no inner or after coolers. can inject water to cool.

engine mounted solid with cast iron from engine back.

weight class is 5800 lbs and 6300 lbs

We want this to be an affordable class so a guy with stock rear and stock engine can with minor work run in the class and have fun.

The big thing is the weight will allow the average guy with lighter trailers, to haul their own diesel to the pulls.

We are lining up pulling spots for this year, If any one plans to run this class with us it would be helpful to know so we can put some numbers together to set up pulls.
If anyone has any question you can call or post. thanks. Floyd Isbell 570 637 1311



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2013 10:53PM by floyd isbell.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 29, 2013 11:39AM
Down in lower PA and surrounding area they have the Interstate Pullers with a Really nice LLSS.

In Western New York they have the Western New York Pro Farm Pullers, and from what little I watched them, they don't have the best numbers in the class, but not too bad.

Why wouldn't you just Join the Western NY Pro farm pullers and run their LLSS rules? I just read the rules and they are about the exact same rules. Except they allow a few other combinations other then the one setup you mentioned. The are already established and have many hooks. Why reinvent the wheel; unless you have a personal beef with that group.

Just My Thought on your blog, Good Luck either way.


Thank You,
Justin Bennett
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 29, 2013 01:37PM
I like interstate and think they have a good thing going as well as Western New York Pro Farm Pullers but we have many tractor pulls close to home that we can hit.
The one thing I don't like is being limited to one hook, because I can manage to mess one up each time! The other is that this is a budgeted class somewhat and driving to Virginia for a pull then to buffalo NY will get expensive. Also some of the classes allow alcohol with limited cid but seems like once they get dialed in it's a struggle for a diesel to keep up.
I agree it would be easier to join another group but we have enough pulls within a 2hr drive to have a nice class here.

I can see how any class can become expensive to keep up in but how do you eliminate that? I will say that after talking with many people the 3x3 turbo limit is going to be the real limiting factor on the class.

My question is with a 3" turbo will a P pump make that much difference than an A pump? looking at it like a air restrictor plate, you can add all the fuel but either pump will supply as well as other. If we had an unlimited Turbo then it could be a big Factor.

It would be great if we could have every engine use oem piston and all internal parts to keep it a competitive class and not spend money on that but there is no way to enforce rules, so we are trying to make the rules as few as possible.

All of your opinions are worth considering although no matter how the rules come out will not everyone be happy, but we will do our best to make this fun.

I do like the idea as well of a economy box turbo for the class to help keep cost out. Thank you.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 29, 2013 12:16PM
Floyd,
Sounds like a fun class. It might start out affordable, but with those rules its gonna get expensive quick. Pretty soon its gonna turn into a 50-60k tractor class running over road gear. I do like the p pump rule and wish some people would open there eyes that limit to an A pump. I would think a box 3x3 charger rule would help also to keep the cost down. Non cut tires would also help limit cost and power to the ground.

Good luck with the class!
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 29, 2013 12:47PM
Floyd: We really need some organized classes in this area. I've been running farm stock and enhanced for over 25 years but it's getting crazy. Just had a guy in our area build a 4440 farm stock with a 600 cui. riverside motor (basically a Super Farm). I would bet with all the bells and whistles he has at least 40,000 in it. I am ready for a change. Keeping it a low cost sport is really hard to do at any level if you are a serious puller. Keep us posted. The Rome pull was great this year. Hoped you would've had a fall pull. Keep up the good work!!
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 29, 2013 01:12PM
At that weight and tire size keep the cube inch at 360 and rpm at 3000 and what ever turbo you can spin. Your get ford ih jd white and anything that can run a cummins.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 29, 2013 03:22PM
Check out mstpa 5900lbs profeild a good hard running class
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 29, 2013 05:54PM
With safety equipment and 470 ci( talking 400series IH) you will not safely make 5800 or 6300 lbs and keep it affordable. Like what was said why re-invent the wheel. Look into the wny pro farm " light pro-farm" rules. 410ci, 2.5 turbo, 18.4 tires, water inj, all safety equip and 6700lbs. All sorts of color and already established
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 29, 2013 10:59PM
I will take a look at those rules. Here is a 560 with dt 466 weighs 5500 lbs it lacks tie bars and ski bars.
it still has factor cast top plate steel frame rails and the heavy press steel rims.
Reply Quote
Attachments:
open | download - 560 diesl side.bmp (99.4 KB)

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 30, 2013 12:01AM
wny allows inter/after coolers, also they are a 24.5 tire limit. We have been looking at rules from many clubs and I see a lot of similarity to what we are in need of.Is it possible to adjust the rules across the nation so you can pull in mo or ny or ky with the same rules? It would be nice if this class which seems to be popular across the nation. But the problem is who wants to make the change when the tractors are built to the rules their club has? One club has no center section between engine and rear. The other does. The trouble with the wheel is that one is 16 and the other is 17 we need to have a universal size wheel.

It would be nice to conform to each set of rules, with that in mind if we go with 470 cid 3x3 any other club tractors can pull with us if you can make weight and have
18.4-38 tires. Now if you already have 24.5 tires would you be willing to change them to meet universal rules?

We have discussed it and if puller won't have to make major changes, maybe we could have this class be a universal class across the nation.

Is this possible? would your club that has limits make a few changes to adopt universal rules?
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 30, 2013 10:27PM
What would be nice is if EVERYONE would have the same set of rules for this LLSS class. So if I go to Ky, Oh, Pa, Ny or even to an indoor pull the rules are all the same. If you guys would all work together you would get a lot more places to pull. I think it's an awesome class. You legally can haul one if these tractors on a gooseneck behind a pickup.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 30, 2013 12:59AM
So just as we are getting the LLSS class to gain some traction in that area and Ohio and people have spent money to build for that, now you want to go and undercut the whole thing so you can make a diesel only class. Since you may have trouble winning your just going to make your own sand box. So lets start another diesel only class, what does that make 450 different diesel classes in the pulling world? Just so you know a diesel Ford in KY has won more than once in the LLSS class down there this year so it could be done, but you may have to spend some money. People are always starting some class with a pipe dream that it's going to be "affordable" if they just make more rules, news flash, more rules = more money to work within those rules.

I really hope you re-think this, build a LLSS and if the rules need tweeked so alcohol and diesel run closer than lets do it, this will do nothing but hurt both classes.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 30, 2013 03:49AM
This class is only a work in progress. I will build any tractor to run with whatever but we locally don't have this class. Our goal is the exact opposite we want to increase tractor numbers. We have 5 people in a close radius that are interested in this class. So if our rules include the alcohol , how many tractors are going to come to PA to pull? I mean real number that will show so we can make and add this class to our local pulls.Ohio is 4.5 hrs for me so I can say if I go it's not going to be a lot, and yes that diesel has won the last three. So we are in agreement, how can we make this class work for all?
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 30, 2013 06:39AM
Ok, maybe I jumped the gun a bit, I didn't know exactly where you were talking about what you are doing over there may not affect what they are trying to do here. I'm just a guy that wants to see LLSS succeed in the Ohio/W.PA area because I like the class. That said, I just get really tired of everytime a new class is purposed gas or alcohol are the first things to go. Some of us like to watch spark plug tractors, and at the very least you should be able to run the fuel the tractor came with. It's all just my opinion, good luck with whatever you end up doing.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 30, 2013 08:54AM
How far away from Binghamton are you in PA?
It sounds like you want a LLSS class with a tire restriction?
WNYprofarm has a LLSS class and a light profarm class [www.wnyprofarm.com]
There are pullers in South Eastern NY that want a LLSS class. Would you be willing to allow a 24.5 tire?
I personally think you would get more interest if you allowed a larger tire.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 30, 2013 10:30AM
There are a few near Oneonta that would be close to fitting the proposed rules as well
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 30, 2013 03:21PM
We are about 45 minutes from Binghamton, NY.
Should we keep 470 cid limit or will we have more interest and tractors to fit a 410 rule?
I am going to say the tire limit after talking and reading other club rules should be 18.4-38 OR 20.8-34.
I like the 24.5 tires but to keep the weight down and traction it sounds like we need to stay with the smaller tires.
The general consensus is that with The box stock 3" turbo with a P pump or A pump will both work well and allows people the choice of pumps.
I know that there are several tractor that hit a few pulls each year that fit this class that don't have many places to pull, so if you have a tractor similar to this give some input so we can make this class a large class.
So some feed back on the cubic inch limit and I think we will have rules to work with and get looking for parts.
Thanks Floyd Isbell 570 637-1311
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 01, 2013 03:50AM
Personally I think the 18.4x38 or 20.8x34 is a good tire to run at that weight .I am from mass. an I know there are a few of us that would travel to pull that class .But keeping cost down the tire limit would be a good place to start .Cause when you go 24.5 you will get guys that are running the puller 2000's an right there is 8-10$K just in tires.Other thing is the box turbo rule is great you can only move so much air with 3x3 or 2.8x3 that would keep cost down to.Now for cid limit I think 470 would be a good place to stop at because if you limit it 410 cid your going to cut out alot of ih tractors with either the 414 ,436,466,combo's in them now.plus parts for the dt's are a dime a dozen.these are just my input not everybodys but I know this class would be fun to pull in.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 01, 2013 04:39AM
I heard a few weeks ago that a class might be starting up on the east coast circuit. 466 p pump hx50. Anyone else hear anything?
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 21, 2014 08:09AM
WNY Pro Farm and to the Ohio pullers, why the 24.5 limit when the NTPA and the southern associations all allow 30.5's? Everyone is talking about universal rules, so I am curious why this isn't across the board.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 01, 2013 06:18AM
Floyd you really need to take a look at our light pro farm rules (western new york pro farm) It would be less expensive long term. The 2.6 charger, small tires, and A-pump are the limiting factors. We are looking into allowing open RPMs in the future but current rules limit it to 3200 to keep the clutch components cheaper. We have a mixed bag of tractors i.e. V8's, turbo gassers, and various colors. At most events we had an average of 7 very competitive tractors with as many as 9 at a few hooks. I'm sure if the schedule allowed you would see some of these guys at an event (myself included.)
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 01, 2013 02:13PM
I have read about 6 sets of rules for clubs in several states. The key to this class is the light weight, 18.4 tires and limit on the turbo. From all that combined sticking with diesel only will be a plus. After many discussions today it seems that even if we allowed 470 cid with 3 inch turbo that the bigger engine and more power only means burning the tires off with limited weight to move and limited traction. I venture to say more time than not a Dt360 or Cummings that has good power and more weight to move should be a winning combination over the nose heavy over powered bigger engines. Does any body think this is true or big cubes will still win?

I would like to work something out with all the surrounding clubs that will allow us all to see some new tracks and meet new people. Its always nice to pull against new and big group of tractors. this class should be a very fun and appealing class. A person should be able to find a ton of the parts cheap to build a tractor for this class.
I can say that we have had pull organizers contact us on this class and are interested in adding it to their shows once we get it worked out.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 01, 2013 10:39PM
maybe 23.1 x 26 or 18. 4 x 34

370 CI, would give the Perkins 354 a home, gas and alky tractors can mix if spot weight to the diesel folks. Take a look at the Super Stock / Pro Stock / Limited Pro class, [tristatepullers.com].

Think about, the 4 cylinder folks and leave some room for big inch NA tractors.

Good luck
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 01, 2013 05:05PM
Cut out the gas and alky tractors they do not mix. The only reason the diesel beat the alkys is because they allowed him to run a 3.6 holset h5 and the alkys run a 3x4. They will never be equal and it will never be fair, You will always have to adjust the rules to try and even it up but it will never be.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 03, 2013 08:21AM
I applaud your efforts at creating this new class. The only issues I see are the "engine mounted solid with cast iron from engine back" and 470 ci limits.

470 ci limit will most likely turn this into a DT466 class. A 410 ci or even 370 ci inch limit will open things up to more colors.

As for engine mounted solid, this will limit your chassis selections. No Oliver 1X00 or even 88 chassis, Massey Harris 44 Chassis, Cockshutt 50 or 570.

Otherwise I like these rules...

WNY Pro Farm's Light Pro farm is very close to these proposed rules... Some interesting combinations at the last WNY show I was at. Duetz, Ford, White, IH all represented...
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 03, 2013 09:40AM
Quote
MH55
I applaud your efforts at creating this new class. The only issues I see are the "engine mounted solid with cast iron from engine back" and 470 ci limits..

As for engine mounted solid, this will limit your chassis selections. No Oliver 1X00 or even 88 chassis, Massey Harris 44 Chassis, Cockshutt 50 or 570.
Quote



All those chassis fit the rules, they're just not fully enclosed from the back of the block to the trans.

Everyone thinks 470 cid limit is the answer. Every brand except for ford has a 6 cyl engine in the 301-360 range. If you want a little tractor class, you need to give their little engines a chance to be competitive.

We tried to put this class together in northeast ohio about a year ago, everyone told us to put our crackpipes down and go LLSS. That's what we did, I still like the idea of this class.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 03, 2013 09:58AM
Hers a little Ford for you..


[www.youtube.com]
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 03, 2013 12:03PM
why not make a real good class 5000 pound s turbo gas , diesel , propane box turbo
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 03, 2013 12:20PM
Look on mid Missouri tuck and tractor pullers or mstpa web sites at there 5900 lb class. Some of those tractors are hitting 24 mph down the track.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 03, 2013 08:41PM
Im with MH55 on this one , have a CI limit to 410 and keep them dam IH 466 truck motors out - that's flat out cheating !
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 03, 2013 08:52PM
DT 408?
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 03, 2013 11:25PM
5.9 cummins too ??
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 04, 2013 02:01AM
Might take a little more than a 466 "truck motor" to compete in a llss class
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 07, 2013 02:42AM
Small turbo, 18.4 tires, no coolers... Doesnt sound like LLSS to me. Sounds more like an attempt at a little more budget minded light turbo class.

I like the idea of this class. I just dont like the cube limit. With all fuel and induction rules same across the board, anyone running a 360 ci motor is gonna be at a disadvantage. Just seems like it will limit the possibilities for front running tractors. At 470 the majority of rides will end up being 466 IH, maybe 466 JD or 456 Fords
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 07, 2013 08:48AM
How does this look for the engine cid limits? Will this keep the pulling pretty even?

LIMITED LIGHT TURBO
WEIGHT:5800 & 6300 lbs. for all tractors
TIRES: 18.4-38CHASSIS:
Fuel: Diesel only



1) Cubic inch limitations: ***NO DECUBING ALLOWED***
a) 479 cid - maximum of a 3x3 turbo
b) 410 cid - maximum of a 3x4 turbo
d) 370 cid – maximum of a 3x4 turbo
2)OEM block and cylinder head for engine being used, NO aftermarket, billet or recast or insert heads allowed.
3) Turbo buy out rule will apply.
4) Cylinder heads to have a maximum of 2 valves per cylinder
5) NO overhead cams allowed
6) No mechanical fans allowed
7)All water injection to be of tap, bottled, or distilled water with NO alcohol additives
8) NO component chassis allowed- rear end must be of tractor origin
9) Engine cannot move independent of frame, rear end, or transmission
10) Engine to be in stock location for chassis being used
11) Must have tie bars or 1 piece frame rails
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 07, 2013 08:53AM
Whats the difference between B & D and what happen to C? So LLSS rules from WNY with small tires and no twins or coolers?????
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 07, 2013 09:16AM
Maybe a little to light, unless your goal is to keep out 466 style who havent spent a small fortune to strip, personal opinion here is theres a class for 466 tractors already , make one for under 410, and one for over( under 479 though), one at 5700 ,one at 6700 , just thinking outload,then lght class can jump if they want. Just an idea.easy builds though i do think a little over zealous on turbo size for an 18x38 class????
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 08, 2013 02:33AM
I would like to see this class stay under 400 cid, with a box 3x3 and 18.4-38s with all of Floyd's other rules being applicable. I think the low CID still opens up the range of tractors make/model and the weight class makes it easy to transport as well as interesting to watch.

However, I'm torn on bigger engines and not completely against them. I can see why many would want them, but like mentioned earlier letting in 466 does open the door for someone to blow the budget with a lightweight build. However, I wonder if the 3x3 rule would be enough to limit the breathing ability of the engine and thus its power. Not to mention if you do build a ton of power then you have to get it hooked up with 18.4 tires and a light weight class.

I guess my question would be has anyone ran the 5.9 and like size engines against the 466 with a restriction of a smaller turbo. And is it competitive or does the old saying of no replacement for displacement hold true?
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 08, 2013 02:45AM
Now this looks like it could work. Larger turbo on smaller engine might help the smaller engines compete. I would change (d) to 310 and allow cooler with 3x3.
I like the inclusion of safety requirements. A class like this should be a blast!

As for not hooking 18.4 tires with 466... There is always a way to overgear until they hook... Not sure tire burn off would be a problem.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 08, 2013 09:48AM
I think your on to something now. 310 cubes would be a 4 cylinder class with 3x3 box turbo; let them run what ever tire you want. With any tires it will be a weight to traction game. I also like the idea of being able to put it behind a pickup on a goose-neck and go.


I watch the videos of that Stick Boy Ford 5000 runs great and he puts on a nice show. He has to be around that 300 cubes. Looks like he runs in 6,200 and 7,300 weight class. I wonder what he has for a turbo setup.


Thank You,

Justin Bennett
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 15, 2013 02:40PM
Justin - we are at 304 cubes, 3x3 charger. Weighs 5300# empty with driver, 6500# is where it runs the best. Thanks for the shout out!
Reply Quote

United Pullers class rules for light limited turbo in North PA and Southern NY October 22, 2013 02:57AM
LIMITED LIGHT TURBO
WEIGHT:5800 & 6300 lbs. for all tractors
TIRES: 24.5 - 32 (No HPs-PULLER 2000s)
CHASSIS: Must have tie bars or 1 piece frame rails
Fuel: Diesel only

ENGINE:

1) Cubic inch limitations: ***NO DECUBING ALLOWED***
a) 479 cid - maximum of a 3x3 turbo
b) 410 cid - maximum of a 3x4 turbo with an inter/after cooler
c) 315 cid – may run twin chargers up to 3x4 with intercooler

2)OEM block and cylinder head for engine being used, NO aftermarket, billet or recast or insert heads allowed.
3) Cylinder heads to have a maximum of 2 valves per cylinder
4) NO overhead cams allowed
5) No mechanical fans allowed
7) NO component chassis allowed- rear end must be of tractor origin
8) Engine cannot move independent of frame, rear end, or transmission
9) Engine to be in stock location for chassis being used
10) ANY SHEET MATAL MY BE USED ON ANY TRACTOR

TURBO:
1) ALL turbo’s to meet the sizing restrictions as listed above in the “cubic inch limitations.”
2) All 3 inch inlets will be measured with a 3.05 slug and outlets with a 4.05 slug or the 3.05 as limits dictate.
3) All turbo compressor and exhaust wheels to rotate within the maximum bore allowed at a minimum of 1/8 inch protrusion into bore. NO plugs allowed.


WATER INJECTION / INTERCOOLERS:
1) All water injection enhancers allowed. alcohol, windshield washer fluid ect.
2) Soluble oil mix additives are allowed for lubrication.
3) Intercooler ice must be in or on tractor at weigh in.

I am going to be able to offer a group rate on parts for tractors Being built for This Class. We can order larger quantities and get bigger discounts.
If there are any pulling organizations that would like to add our class to your pulls call for schedule.
Any pullers that would like to build a Tractor for this class call 570 637-1311 Floyd Isbell

These rules are as close as we can get to wnyprofarm. There rules are most of what we went with.We look forward to pulling together with them at there pulls and ours.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 08, 2013 12:37PM
I think Floyd's last rules could be a pretty good class. However, these rules are so close to WNY LLSS that I would say to go with WNY LLSS. By going with WNY it would allow WNY tractors to come to PA and PA tractors to go north. WNY has several pulls within 2-2.5 hours of our area. No matter what rules you have it will turn into a money game like every other class.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 09, 2013 02:56AM
These rules are closer to the WNY Light Pro Farm rules than LLSS. As stated in Floyd's OP he's looking for an "affordable class"... LLSS has grown beyond what most would consider "affordable" Anyone who fits WNY's LPF class could run Floyd's class "as is"...
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 09, 2013 12:28PM
Use ky llss rules, but do what should have been done when it started box turbo with a 1200.$ claimer 3 inch that will buy a hx60 no data loggers no profab trans ag tires only up to 30.5 no destroking and for good measure 5700 pounds
Reply Quote

United Pullers class rules for light limited turbo in North PA and Southern NY October 22, 2013 02:59AM
LIMITED LIGHT TURBO
WEIGHT:5800 & 6300 lbs. for all tractors
TIRES: 24.5 - 32 (No HPs-PULLER 2000s)
CHASSIS: Must have tie bars or 1 piece frame rails
Fuel: Diesel only

ENGINE:

1) Cubic inch limitations: ***NO DECUBING ALLOWED***
a) 479 cid - maximum of a 3x3 turbo
b) 410 cid - maximum of a 3x4 turbo with an inter/after cooler
c) 315 cid – may run twin chargers up to 3x4 with intercooler

2)OEM block and cylinder head for engine being used, NO aftermarket, billet or recast or insert heads allowed.
3) Cylinder heads to have a maximum of 2 valves per cylinder
4) NO overhead cams allowed
5) No mechanical fans allowed
7) NO component chassis allowed- rear end must be of tractor origin
8) Engine cannot move independent of frame, rear end, or transmission
9) Engine to be in stock location for chassis being used
10) ANY SHEET MATAL MY BE USED ON ANY TRACTOR

TURBO:
1) ALL turbo’s to meet the sizing restrictions as listed above in the “cubic inch limitations.”
2) All 3 inch inlets will be measured with a 3.05 slug and outlets with a 4.05 slug or the 3.05 as limits dictate.
3) All turbo compressor and exhaust wheels to rotate within the maximum bore allowed at a minimum of 1/8 inch protrusion into bore. NO plugs allowed.


WATER INJECTION / INTERCOOLERS:
1) All water injection enhancers allowed. alcohol, windshield washer fluid ect.
2) Soluble oil mix additives are allowed for lubrication.
3) Intercooler ice must be in or on tractor at weigh in.

I am going to be able to offer a group rate on parts for tractors Being built for This Class. We can order larger quantities and get bigger discounts.
If there are any pulling organizations that would like to add our class to your pulls call for schedule.
Any pullers that would like to build a Tractor for this class call 570 637-1311 Floyd Isbell

These rules are as close as we can get to wnyprofarm. There rules are most of what we went with.We look forward to pulling together with them at there pulls and ours.
Reply Quote

Re: United Pullers class rules for light limited turbo in North PA and Southern NY October 23, 2013 10:03AM
No roll cages? No steel flywheels or clutches, blankets? Kill switches? Good luck finding the insurance. As a promoter Id never take on the liability without all the safety equipment in this day and age.
Reply Quote

Re: United Pullers class rules for light limited turbo in North PA and Southern NY October 23, 2013 12:06PM
Didn't list safety rules, to spec. I agree with you. And I wouldn't have a class without all safety requirements met.

General Safety Rules

1) All vehicles required to have an SFI clutch/flywheel blanket or SFI clutch can assembly. Blanket to be 17 inches wide, 6 strap, fastened front and back to chassis.
NO cast iron clutch or flywheel components.
2) All drivers are required to wear an SFI fire suit, and helmet.
3) All pulling vehicles to have a dead-mans throttle, must return to an idle when let go.
4) All vehicles to have a SAFETY SHUT OFF. Must shut off the air intake on diesel motors, and be spring loaded to close. There must be a 2 inch ring at rear of vehicle to attach safety cable from sled as well as must be operational from driver seat .
5) All diesels to have a 3 way dump valve before the pump to divert fuel away from pump in case of malfunction. This also must be operated from driver seat.
6) All tractors are required to have wheelie bars to meet spec. of 32 inches beyond centerline of rear axel, 20 inch square pad, and 12 inch vertical brace from rear of pads to be a minimum of 2 inches beyond rear tire radius and a max. of 10 inches off the ground. These must be able to support the weight of the tractor when a jack is placed under.
7)All turbo charged vehicles to have exhaust exit upwards with 2 3/8 bolts in exhaust pipe.
8) A 5pt. harness is required for all roll-cage
9) Tractors are required to have a roll-cage to meet SFI specs. Minimum of 2 bar cage . Also required to have front skid bars to support full tractor weight.
Reply Quote

Re: United Pullers class rules for light limited turbo in North PA and Southern NY October 23, 2013 12:12PM
sound like llss to me.
Reply Quote

Re: United Pullers class rules for light limited turbo in North PA and Southern NY October 24, 2013 01:54AM
---



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2013 02:38AM by floyd isbell.
Reply Quote

Re: United Pullers class rules for light limited turbo in North PA and Southern NY October 23, 2013 12:34PM
Another diesel only class?
Reply Quote

Re: United Pullers class rules for light limited turbo in North PA and Southern NY October 24, 2013 01:55AM
Spark plug tractors can run in the same class.The diesel tractor will be separate from alcohol tractors places will be for each fuel. I don't have any experience running the alcohol tractor to compare and keep fair, that's why I asked for replies to this post. It seems to be the opinion from calls I have gotten to keep them separate and then that will eliminate the need for compensating each class to run with the other. We didn't rule out the alcohol tractor, just keeping them separate in the class. The alcohol tractor rules we will be using wnyprofarm rules for a guideline. It seem that they have had success with the alcohol tractors there. We want to Unite the class from east coast to west.

These tractors are light and easy to haul. They can be built for a fraction of cost, although somebody that wants to spend unlimited amount is going to do so regardless of most any rules. The average guy can pick up a school bus engine, get a good clutch set up and be pulling. The 24.5 tires are readily available and rear ends are reasonable. Use what ever sheet metal brand you choose. We look forward to helping this class grow across the nation to unite a class. United pullers...

The pullers from RI,CTand Mass. we will be coming to your pulls as well this year. Hope you got yours super tuned Jake in RI!


Any questions and comments call Floyd Isbell 570 637 1311
Reply Quote

Re: United Pullers class rules for light limited turbo in North PA and Southern NY October 25, 2013 01:48AM
Your rules say diesel only, but your saying if I show up with an alcohol tractor I can pull but I'm in my own class? Does that mean your having to purses? If I'm the only one do I get first place money? You say you have no experiance with alcohol to make competitive rules, well lots of other people do, use the WNY/FPP rules for LLSS and be done with it. Listen to what Ron is telling you below.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 24, 2013 03:46AM
This makes no sense. Your whole argument is that you want unified rules. So rather than righting your rules to follow the other local organizations you are creating new ones. Many groups have shown that LLSS can have a variety of color with both alky and smokers being competitive. If you want to create a sandbox to play in for you and your buddies that is fine but don't use the argument that you want unified rules for the whole country and then reinvent the wheel with something different. Use what is there. I know with the group around here we have been working to change our existing classes to match those around us and create new ones that will allow pullers to move around if they choose.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 24, 2013 05:10AM
And the modified rules that your going to use are what?? lets compare..
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 24, 2013 09:06AM
We started the Ohio Light Limited Class last year. We pretty much followed WNYPF rules. It has been very successful lost of intrest and more tractrs being built, we have aprox 10 hooks again for next year. If you want to keep things the same across the country, Follow WNYPF and Ours rules, that will put 3 groups together with one set of rules in a 3-4 hour driving radius. Also leave the weight at 6500 to start with. If you have a pull were you can get 2 hooks just pull twice at 6500. I vote 2 keep all of them the same. Just run the Alkys right with the diesels it will be to dificult to have 2 purse structures and such. There not as big a threat as you might think. If you would Like to talk about it give me a call Ron Bailey 440-821-0557
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 24, 2013 09:34AM
As a WNY LLSS puller I agree with Ron, If your going to be that close to our rules run them straight up like Ohio and FPP. You will only get a few now and then to come becuase of our busy schedule already, buy limiting the weight your cutting out tractors from other clubs.Maybe we could all get together for a couple of major pulls, like a shoot-out series one in each state with a raised purse and double pts? Like a $2500 purse and everybody gets paid something. I mean a good facility with lots of room, GOOD clay tracks and great crowds to boot.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 24, 2013 12:31PM
I'm ready for you Floyd and anyone else that will show up. I could use some competition around here. From what I've seen Floyd it looks like I might have to detune my tractor just to at least give you a chance!!!
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 25, 2013 09:18AM
Easy there big jake be careful what you wish for and where and what do you pull now
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 25, 2013 02:03PM
Well there nyllsspuller I just pull a little 560 with a 466. I pull local just in the CT area. Be careful what I wish for huh? Should I be scared?
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 25, 2013 02:30PM
Sounds like the East meets the West show down! I better get selling those Tickets for this show! That is the beauty of this class, we can have a united pull and see who has got the power... There is a ton of interest in this class and sounds like we will have to set up the east coast show down for this year. That is if that name isn't takin' for another pull. Maybe this is the making of another reality tv show!

After further discussions It looks like we will have quite a few pulls this year for this class. All the tractor that are built and plan to be built, I would like to talk to you about how many pulls you want to attend and how far you are willing to go to pull. Thanks Floyd Isbell 570 637 1311
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 22, 2014 12:11PM
Well if you actually read my post, you'd be able to decipher that I knew that. For whatever reason my original question got moved to the middle of the topic. I don't really care about the new class. Was touching base on why every association across the US has to come up with their own rules instead of everyone using a single set so people can build a tractor and compete anywhere in the country. But yes, I knew it was an old post. Thanks for the useful input.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 27, 2013 12:39AM
Sounds like a good class. I am from southern new england area and am building a tractor that almost fits right in this class. I have a white 2-70 with a stock cube 8.3 Cummins. I think it should give all the dt466 farmalls of the area a good run. Any thoughts on raising the cube limit slighty so the class can get some more variety ? I have my doubts if a 5.9 could hang with a good running dt466, thats why I went with a 8.3. Also are you still planning on the rule of "engine mounted solid with cast iron from engine back" ? That would not let a oliver or white in the class correct ? I know myself and some other tractors in the area would make the trips down for sure if the class gets up and running.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2013 01:08AM by MikeR.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 27, 2013 03:12AM
I have had a few discussions and The engine mounted solid, should mean no movement between rear to the engine. Engine is to be mounted solid with no ability to move separate from rear of tractor. We will not require cast iron. The engine needs to be in stock location. I think that we are going to come up with a measurement to give all tractors equal chance. We will have a minimum and max distance from the back of the engine to the center of the rear axle. I will post those #s after a few more calls.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 27, 2013 04:04AM
That would make determining engine location a lot easier. Any chance on uping the cube limit a little bit ? That way the 506 cube 8.3 cummins c series, rd501s (if you decided to let spark plug engines in), hercules 478 etc could also pull in the class.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 27, 2013 05:12AM
Bigger cubes smaller turbo to level the field. NA unlimited cubes.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 27, 2013 12:55PM
Going to say the 478 will work but looks like the 8.3 wont get in. The limit is 479 using nyprofarm rules as a guide. They have a good class with this limit, so lets stick with this. If we add cid then these tractor cant go to all the other pulls. You will see this class running at pulls where top from each area come for championship pull, so the rules need to run close. Keep me posted with your progress.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY October 28, 2013 09:53AM
Will do. Thanks for the consideration.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY November 27, 2013 05:22AM
I pull a JD 2640 here in CT with our local club. It is a 4 cylinder 276 cu in diesel. I have turbo, " A " pump and water injection. I would really like to be able to go to other places and pull. I weigh in at 5750 with 30.5 Firestone cut pullers. If you do put the class together and would be willing to let me pull even if it is exhibition let me know. It would be worth the drive. Mike
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 21, 2014 08:11AM
And I know that's an old thread. Just curious as I am planning to pull in WNY but also dabble in BOB.
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 22, 2014 09:29AM
Floyd better make it so interstate guys can come hook in the class I think if they are close to home their could be a few of them coming to hook once and a while
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 22, 2014 11:58AM
Man didn't you guys look at the date on this thread your all going back in time that was last year it didn't amount to crap this year
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 22, 2014 12:12PM
Yeah...read my response above
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 23, 2014 02:55AM
This class is one of the largest and fastest growing classes in the country. It will take a few years for puller to build tractors for this class but guaranteed will be a class to watch in the very near future. We are following wnyprofarm rules for llss class. I have recieved calls from across the nation and there are many clubs following this very set of rules without to much modification. heres a few older videos of two from the class.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]
Reply Quote

Re: making new light limited turbo diesel class in North PA and Southern NY September 23, 2014 02:04PM
Thank you Floyd. So 24.5's are legal as us alcohol?
Reply Quote

rules September 24, 2014 02:30PM
[www.wnyprofarm.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2014 02:31PM by floyd isbell.
Reply Quote

Newer Topic Older Topic

Author:

Your Email:


Subject:
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically. If the code is hard to read, then just try to guess it right. If you enter the wrong code, a new image is created and you get another chance to enter it right.
Message:
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,745, Posts: 229,887, Members: 3,334.
This forum: Topics: 37,086, Posts: 225,992.

Our newest member DANNY.WAINSCOTT@YAHOO.COM