01:30:20am, Saturday, April 27, 2024
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Sled speed?
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Josh
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With this accident last at the farm show. Maybe as a sport needs to take a step back and look at the big picture. Pulling has turned into drag racing. I am not saying we need to back 30 to the hard pulling sleds. But maybe there is a happy medium of speed and drag. Not sure how other would feel. With most pulling tracks being 300ft and know you see pulls at the distance of 320 to 340. Most tracks are not ment for this distance and then throw the speed in to it and weight and it is matter of time until it can get real ugly. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Anonymous User
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I have to agree with you. The tracks these tractors are pulling on are the same tracks we have ran for many years. The technology of these tractors and trucks has change so much. The sled operator should have the sled set to put on a good show, but also spin them out at or just past the full pull line. Yes it will work the tractors and trucks harder but that is what they are built for. Just glad no ones was hurt. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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two banger
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Very good point you guys It's seems it turned into a tractor race and not tractor pulling HP and speed getting out of hand. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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are you kidding me
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this may be the dumbest thing i have heard in a long time. the fans dont go to watch a tractor spin and dig for 30 seconds to achieve 300 foot. they want to see speed and 340'. you sound like a farmstocker who couldnt win so they want to outlaw everyone beating him. if you want to pull like your grandpa go get joyr farmall m and pull at 2 mph............. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Anonymous User
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You must not have very good hearing then. You can go to almost any pull where the pullers are so far out the gate all you see is the tail end of the sled and all you hear is that it would be nice to see what these things would do if they had to use what is under the hood. 340' pulls equals less time in between hooks, less track repair at the end of each hook, ect... and we all know time is money! Talking about farmstock pullers guess what Bryce started with. An A John Deere, and Cindy still has her G John Deere. Got to start somewhere! |
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Re: Sled speed?
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are you kidding me
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now thats a debatable, if we are trying to go 300' at 15mph versus 340' at 28mph, your slow pull will take longer. so really you can argue it will take longer but we now know thats not true. and for the most part 90% of the pulls guys are stopped around that 310'or less mark so i dont think people are complaing about seeing the back of the sled, unless the promoter didnt put any bleachers at the end of the track. dont think so.. and im glad you pointed out he USED to pull farm stock. im sure he got bored with it and jumped up!!! |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Speed Puller
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I can tell you for a fact we have lost pulls and gained pulls on which sled is available. A faster sled puts on a on a better show. Ever heard of the complaints about Stimmels sled the first few years it was out? We pull Mini's and will not go to some shows due to the sled because of the increased maintenance on a slower sled. We have lost two engines because of slow sleds. Runs under15 seconds is were we like to be. Less wear on the tires and you see the more skilled drivers show. The fastest we ha e ever been is a touch over 40 mph and stopped at 318 feet was the winning hook. Now that's was the perfect track to sled setup. That's was almost spooky fast. Most of the time we liked to be 30 mph. Now it's the reason the pulling facilities need to take safety more serious. Like people sitting on walls and at the end of tracks. As a driver I don't like any of that. If anyone has every been to Pittsfield PA they have a very nice setup for pulling. Walls with fence on top plenty of room at the end of the track and they keep the fans in the areas they should during the pull. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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operator
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You will lose roughly 10 mph off of what pullers are doing now if you changed from a speed setup to an old style sled setup. Track has a lot to do with it, but low to mid 30s is a good average of how fast stuff goes with a speed setup. So you're talking about dropping to the low to mid 20s on average. Someone smarter than me can figure up how much longer that will make the run on a 300 ft track, but it will be very noticeable to the fans in the stand. especially those who are used to the fast stuff. so I'd say speed is here to stay. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Anonymous User
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You could have left out your thoughts on the other people's opinions and the personal attack and just gave your own suggestion ya know. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2015 08:50AM by KingofKings. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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really????
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Who do you think you are to speak on behalf of all the tractor pulling fans? I know I personally would rather watch a pure pull rather than a drag race. I also know I'm not the only person that feels this way either. The way I see it every time the race vs pull subject comes up its always a heated debate. Sadly it usually takes an accident to insight change thankfully no one was injured at least this time. I think it's time to make a change. Make tractors pull again and leave racing to the drag strip. Oh and just an FYI 28 mph is still the slowest motor sport around. Gear heads that are in to speed need to go to top fuel race! 8000 hp tearing up the track 0-300 mph in 4 seconds now that's SPEED!!!!! |
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Tractor pulling
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Any buddy can build a super hot high speed 2 engine turboed do 40 miles and hour pull wow. It is a hell of a lot more exciting to see a 90 year old Msssey Harris or a old ford son stock pull at 4 /2 m p h pull all the way especially when the driver is 90 years old to |
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Re: Tractor pulling
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Ohio Puller
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Seems to me I can go down to any auction and buy a old tractor ready to go 4 and a half hour or 4 and three quarter if we really want to get crazy every summer weekend. If anyone could build a fast tractor then why don't you since its so easy. If put put pulling is so much better why is it when the pull there's more people pulling than wacthing? |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 480 |
The problem I see is there is no set stop point on these tracks. Outside most tracks have room to go 320 plus so 320 as a full pull isn't unacceptable but there are tracks like Brandenburg, KY and Troy, MO were a full pull still needs to be 300 or 310 at the most. Inside the full pull needs to be set so that there is room between the tractor and the sand pile. I know everyone loves to see a tractor up in the sand pile but it isn't a good idea. The sand pile isn't supposed to be a part of the track, it's supposed to be a safety stop. I also understand some organizations like to run a floating finish so that's a different deal. The organization needs to say if we decide to float the finish the track is say 340 ft. and then the sled needs to be set up to stay within that distance. If a tractor that you know is normally 10 to 15 feet back is test puller and goes 325 or 330 then the sled needs to be reset. These sleds can be set to stop within a set perameter so let's make safety a priority instead of letting these things slide to the point where we have 360 plus pulls. Then agian it's just one entustiast's oppinion. Keith Ford Photography [www.facebook.com] keithfordphotography.zenfolio.com |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Any video of the pull that ended not so well? Thanks! |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Registered: 04/13/2014 Posts: 405 |
[www.pulloff.com] |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Bring back the step on sleds! And PACE tractors!!!! |
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Re: Sled speed?
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A pull from start to finish, and it lasted 18 seconds, 329 feet. It is possible to have a sled that actually pulls from start to finish and still relatively fast. And he was out of it for the last 20 feet. No need for these 340 feet and beyond pulls where your "finish line" seats that you had to book months in advance are suddenly mid-track seats.
video: [youtu.be] |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Old sled
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I hope your not using that video as a example of a speed sled. That is a old time friction sled. 18 secounds is a eternity anymore. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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but
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the problem with using Conner's pass there as an example is that the sled didn't stop him. he probably could have gone 375'. if the sled was set to stop him he wouldn't have gone that fast and the pass would have probably lasted even longer. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Posts: 744 |
Yes 18 sec is way too long.
[www.youtube.com] Here is a video of a 386' pass in 15 sec. I would take that pass on the motor over any 12 sec pass to 290 any day of the week. Now fans may differ on what they want to see, I was just providing an example. Wettleson and Red Thunder did the same that pull. Another example of a 337' at 12 sec. [www.youtube.com] Anytime we can run 310-340 in 12 sec is pretty ideal conditions from a motor standpoint. I am not an advocate for 380+ ft just pointing out the 340' passes at 12-13 sec are pretty easy on the motors and drive train because rpms and traction stay constant throughout the run. BUT you do add the element of increased speeds to accomplish it and that in itself adds safety issues. This track had plenty of runoff for 340', some do not offer that safely. Tomah can easily handle 320-340 runs safely. COO for OTTPA www.outlawpulling.com www.truck-specialties.com Schaeffer Oil Representative [www.schaefferoil.com] |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Josh
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Yea why has pulling become 320 to 340ft. I always thought that 300 ft was a full pull. I understand that some do not want a pulloff. So then we have a floating finish. No reason to be at 340 in my opinion. I think pulling has made great strives in the saftey. But there are lot of places that 310 or 320 is as far as you can go. The other thing we all have to remember it is only going to take one bad accindent. And some sue happy person will sue and then the insurance will go through the roof. |
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Re: Sled speed? How about Full PUll?
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Outlaw Junky
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Watching pulling for years and seeing how it has evolved from tractor pulling to more of a drag race with a sled sport begs the question should there be new safety concerns both with tractors and with sled? How is it affecting the sport to the outside world? Pullers will tell you more times then not, their equipment can go 340' with no problem. It is very fun and exciting as a fan to watch a puller have an amazing hook that gets good ground speed, carries that front end perfect and ends up out around that 340' mark. That is exciting to watch and gets everyone on their feet every time. A lot of good points are being made about the evolution of the sport and what fans expectations are today vs. years ago. Right now a 300' track just doesn't make a lot of sense. The sport has evolved, sleds have evolved, but our length remains the same. If you are hired today to promote this sport. Will is be easier to sell someone new on the full pull mark or the longest distance driven mark? Great runs with good speed or pull offs? That is the question that needs to be answered with this sport today? Tractor pulling really kind of needs a new definition, because try explaining to someone what pulling is all about that knows nothing about the sport and I think you will find that they wont under stand it. Why not lengthen the tracks to 330' and make that the new full pull mark? Isn't a full pull kind of like a home run fence to baseball? A touchdown to football? Some may like it, some may hate it, but what it does is helps keep the sport more even. No one who pulls wants to run up against one or two tractors night in and night out that can run 340'. No fan wants to watch a pull that has a winning distant of 290' anymore either. But that 290' distance keeps the pack closer together which on paper at least looks like a pretty competitive class. By allowing all of these so called drag races to occur we are actually making the show worse vs better because your spreading the winning distances further apart. Baseball doesn't measure a home run by how far they kill it, if they did their would be far fewer home runs hit. Might add excitement, but then all of sudden teams would change their strategies and the whole game would change. Well that is what is happening with pulling. More and more people are building their tractors to run longer distances. Why? Because pulling hasn't defined what a full pull is anymore? So, were all changing our strategies when it comes to building new pulling rigs. It's time for pulling to get back to Full Pulls, but we need to define what the new modern day Full Pull mark is? |
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Re: Sled speed? How about Full PUll?
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Posts: 744 |
If you take some region, state, and bush pulls and don't allow the top guys to get to 320 or better, you wont put on a good show.
There is no rule stating that GN caliber trucks and tractors cant pull at lower levels. Take for instance Bone Twister, your Cloverdale and NFMS sweep winner. If we go back to a region hook this summer and you plan to stop the Bone at 290 or 295 then the rest of the class will be spread out down to 220. There in lies the problem. You can set the full pull mark but you can't dictate the amount of power or numbers that shows up to pull. So to make a good show wouldn't it be better to let the Bone go 340 (if safely done), then at least the fans get to watch some of the other guys get into that 280 - 310 range. The entertainment value to the crowd is greatly increased if you can get the best out of all the entries. I think Outlaws have done the best with that theory on their floating finishes over the years. In doing so, sure the sled settings sometime gets missed or track gets better and the distances start to walk out further. That's just an unintentional by product of this type of floating finish. No different than me missing the weight on my tractor and falling way short. This is probably the biggest reason the distances have gotten longer. It hasn't been to cater to the top dogs, it has been to increase the value the rest bring to the class as well. COO for OTTPA www.outlawpulling.com www.truck-specialties.com Schaeffer Oil Representative [www.schaefferoil.com] |
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Re: Sled speed? How about Full PUll?
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Outlaw Junky
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AV
Your missing a little bit of what I am saying. I am not wanting to stop them at 290'. I am wanting to go 330, 340, maybe even 350'. Think about it this way, I just hired you to promote and grow the sport of truck and tractor pulling to the general public to try and grow interest in the sport to a whole group of potential sponsors, promoters, and fans that have never seen this sport before. Are you going to market longest distance or full pulls? Full pulls in time will bring the rest of your so called back of the pack back up the line. Currently, we are trying to regulate tractors with turbos, cubic inches, etc.. We need to have something of a set clear definition of what a tractor pull is and how its defined to the rest of the non pulling world. I am glad you brought up Bone Twister, Its a great example of what the modern day tractor looks like in order to be competitive in the pulling world. It is how we are currently defining tractor pulling. 1-3 tractors and the rest of the pack. Sorry, that isn't sustainable over the long run. It's like I said earlier, how you build a tractor today is a lot different then what it was ten years ago. If we had full pulls? Would you build your tractor different then how you currently set it up? I am guessing that answer is yes. Current strategies is distance. Is that a good marketing strategy for the sport? You pull it, but we need to grow it. |
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Re: Sled speed? How about Full PUll?
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Posts: 744 |
If I was promoting the sport, I would be worried about what iron was going to show to sell, and not even mention whether there are floating finishes or full pulls.
Come see the show to find that out. And I don't think the bone got built the way it did because he thought he only needed to make one pass a night. We just dont live in the times where 35 super stocks show up anymore. We live in the times that you will have guys that want a vehicle that can win NFMS and BG (example BONE) and you have others that build to a different budget and longevity. When we had pulloffs like back in the 90s there were still a group of those guys that would throw all they could get at it to win. Look at the GN supers they all are on kill if need be and for years have had to pulloff every pull. So pulloffs did not keep those guys from building differently and the numbers have been going in a different direction. That formula didn't seem to be sustainable. Marketing needs to focus on selling the classes and the iron that will show up. Floating finishes and easier motor freed up pulling, keeps that iron on the circuit week in and week out. Pulling is only sustainable if there is a season long points run and many events across a certain region with the iron available to run it. Now what rules help ensure the most amount of iron? Once that's decided on, market it accordingly. Sustainability is the key like you said, and from what I see in Iowa, the Outlaws have put that at the forefront of their focus. Some classes might be sustainable with pulloffs every night just because they have higher numbers to start with. COO for OTTPA www.outlawpulling.com www.truck-specialties.com Schaeffer Oil Representative [www.schaefferoil.com] Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 11:44AM by AV. |
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Re: Sled speed? How about Full PUll?
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Outlaw Junky
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AV
Good points. I am not saying were going to have pull offs every night, an pulling world needs to get back to having that line set is all that I am saying or soon tractors will be going well beyond 340'. It started out a few years back with just one or two in a class and now look what it has evolved into over the years. 300' is to short for the caliber of equipment out on the track today. Remember the days when if you hit that 300' mark how much it meant? Now what does it mean? Isn't a "Full Pull" what we built tractor pulling on, its been the staple of the sport for a very long time, its what made pulling unique and different. It's cool to see these long hooks, but let me ask you this. If your watching this sport on Television. Can you tell the difference from a tractor that goes 340' vs 300' on tv? Live yes, on television NO. Thats why Full Pulls are important. It's part of our brand and its makes the sport more marketable to the rest of the motor sport world. |
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Re: Sled speed? How about Full PUll?
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Posts: 744 |
These sleds can stop us wherever they want. Nfms is 245. KC is 210. I think the evolution has been to better the show the whole time not because we are making more power. The sled just allows us more speed today before we get stopped at 300. And any fan base you are gaining with tv today knows a whole different pulling than you and I grew up around. Most of them never heard of a pulloff. They know the mark to beat though is the name of the game. And if you market it that way that's all alot of them will ever know. I really think it would be tough to take today's pulling and give the type of feel pulling had to fans of the 70s 80s and 90s.
I loved the 80s and 90s pulling and that's what I associate with. But when I step back and look, as we start our 8th season as vehicle owners, I realize I have never even participated in a pulloff. Not one time over 7 seasons. GN events we attended were the only ones even offering them. Region and Outlaws have floated for so long now it's so common. Eventhough you and I know a different time and identity of pulling, I am not sure that's really what it is today. COO for OTTPA www.outlawpulling.com www.truck-specialties.com Schaeffer Oil Representative [www.schaefferoil.com] |
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Re: Sled speed? How about Full Pull?
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Outlaw Junky
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AV
It's amazing to think there is a generation of pullers out there that has never participated in a pull off. Seems almost tragic. I do believe we need a little bit of both scenarios to continue to happen in the pulling world. We need the nice long pulls on some nights and we need pull offs nights. We just need to re define the term "Full Pull" and what it means to the this motor sport. I am a firm believer that promoters who want such or organizations that want pull offs in this day and age of the sport need to pay additional money for them. It's no longer can be part of the class payout. Too much is spent on fuel alone to go down the track for one hook. Pullers need to be paid more money when they participate in the pull off. Monster trucks are paid extra for rolling over at events, they put that in the contracts before the events. Pulling needs to pay more for having pull offs. That would help with getting pull offs back into the sport. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Additional thoughts
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To say that longer pulls equals a better show is debatable. Just b/c some have this opinion doesn't make it fact. Nor is it a fact that 300' is too short for the caliber of today's equipment. Just b/c they will hit a few less MPH on the track - they won't be able to handle it or perform properly? That just isn't a logical argument. Don't get me wrong, you can absolutely have the opinion that 340' is a good distance for the winner. Just as I have the opinion that 315-320' is the absolute furthest distance any vehicle should go under any circumstances before they are red-flagged and "out the gate". I am obviously a fan but also a puller for the last 20 years. If a pull is struggling to get the entire crowd to where they can see the pull (b/c the crowd is so large) then I can maybe see extending it a bit. But this also gets the vehicle and sled further away from the half of the fans that are seated at the first half of the track.
I completely agree about your pulloff stance. I mean - there is a reason this site is named "pulloff.com". It is b/c the pulloff is the most exciting part of a pull. It is like overtime in football or basketball or a shoot-out in hockey or soccer. I have experienced 3 pulloffs as a competitor in around 300 pulls over the 20 years. And while the memories of many of the other pulls have faded - the circumstances of those 3 pulloffs are burned into my memory and are some of my most exciting times as a puller. The pressure is higher, the margin of error is lower, and usually it is just you against one or two other vehicles straight up where changing track conditions is not a factor. There is just an electricity in the air. You have the strategy of determining whether you gamble and try a different spot than the first puller or do you just say "I can beat you straight up and then run it right up the guts of where the 1st guy went."? It is a shame that there is a growing generation of pullers and fans that haven't ever experienced the excitement of a pulloff. I agree that offering to promoters that they could pay extra money for a pulloff seems like a fantastic idea. Pullers wouldn't mind a few pulloffs per year if there was extra money involved and promoters who want to increase the quality of the show would likely adopt the idea. The pulloff itself could be presented by or named for a specific sponsor. I also realize that many vehicles are not built to double the number of runs over a season. I think an organization could rotate which classes are doing a pulloff at different event so that there is at least one or two classes with a pulloff at every event. Here's another thing: you don't necessarily have to have a set distance and multiple vehicles go past it to have a pulloff. You can just announce that since there are 12 vehicles in this class, the top 3 will come back later in the night for a pulloff. Pull another class in between so everyone has enough time to properly cool down and check things over and then bring back those top 3. That way you don't have to try to determine what distance will result in 2-4 vehicles making the pulloff. Let's say there is a 15 truck class on a track that obviously getting better and the last two trucks finish 1st and 2nd, but the 3rd place guy was the 2nd or 3rd puller in the class and laid down an awesome pass that stood up until the last two pullers. Wouldn't it be great to see all 3 come back later in the show on a more level playing field? |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Outlaw Junky
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"Wouldn't it be great to see all 3 come back later in the show on a more level playing field?"
I agree that the top 3 is the way to go. Bringing them back at the end of the night, helps keep the crowd there and sells more food and beer for promoters as well. It really makes the night to end it with a pull off. I also agree with the rotation of classes. If you start promoting it this way, pullers will know when and were it's going to happen. I like the sponsor idea of the pull offs as well, new way to generate more revenue for the pull. Lots of good thoughts and ideas. Love the insight on what it meant to be in a pull off. We need this more, all of it. Quit abusing what built this sport! Pull offs are part of your branding. Don't go away from it! |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Mark D.
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This topic is one that I have been thinking about lately in regards to our pulling. We pull at the local level and we often find ourselves finishing middle of the pack but around 30' back from a few tractors who are at a totally different level than the rest of the class. As an association, I know this spread has been topic of conversation already and I have heard complaints from both pullers who do not want to run 340' and guys who feel wronged by the sled when stopped less than 270'.
Much talk has been about the sled speed of today's pulling, or "maximum ground speed" as our club announces it at the end of every pull. I completely understand the idea of putting on a awesome/exciting show with faster runs down the track. My theory is, by reducing the rolling resistance in the first 200' of the pull to allow for the faster ground speeds..... it is helping the higher horsepower tractors MORE than the low horsepower tractors and therefore helping to create a wider range of finish distances. I know we all need to "get off the line" and some will argue that the lower hp tractors need more help but remember that these tractors are already geared down from the high hp which will help them accomplish this. Meanwhile, "speed wins" in pulling today because of the inertia created in getting that speed. Less resistance to the high hp tractor means they are able to grab an even taller gear than before, gaining greater inertia, dragging the sled even further out the end away from other guys who didn't have that same level of momentum. I hope others let me know what they think about my thoughts on this. Maybe sled operators will tell me I am completely wrong but I would like to hear why as well. My guess is, if we just increase the rolling resistance applied early in the hook, we could see a class finish closer together (despite spending differences on pulling vehicles), and end to the need to let them go 340' just so the last one doesn't finish 270. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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cpr
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I think you are dead on Mark. I had this conversation with Gary H 10 years ago when he was toying with different ratios in the hot rod. A little more early resistance might be helpful, it might stand to reason that even less could work as you would need to walk it out more slowly or risk burning the tires off.
Within the wider world of pulling, it seems that the horsepower race vs. sled resistance is one that will never be easily won. Most want to restrict horsepower as a means of dealing with it, but I have another idea. What if the days of the standard 20" hitch are over? Maybe go down to 18" on everything to put some control back in the sled operator's hands. |
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Re: Sled speed? How about Full PUll?
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Josh
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It sounds to me as pulling is at a crossroads. I think at the regional,state and brush pulls may be held at one level and grand national pulls at another. You are really starting to see a difference between pulling vehicles. The ppl prostocks are all but tearing down there engines after 2 runs. Ask state or regional guy when he tears down? Maybe during the off season. Not sure if there is a answer. |
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Re: Sled speed? How about Full PUll?
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PULLER AND FAN
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I have been a fan of pulling for 40 years and pulled for for 25 a 300ft show in the 80s and 90s was just as good as todays 340s todays sleds can make a farmal m with no governors look like a 1980s super stock because a chevy s10 can pull it the first 240ft |
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Re: Sled speed? How about Full PUll?
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puller 320
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My class voted to have floating finishes but not to exceed 320 .Whoever supposed to have told the sled man or the promoters for the past two years must have forgot and yes there needs to be a standerd track length if its 340 or 320 I will guarantee the top dogs at louisville has a gear just for louisville |
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Re: Sled speed? How about Full Pull?
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One of the problems in pulling, at least in regards to building the fan base, is the full pull rule, or lack thereof. How many options are there? 300, 310, 320, floating finish, and the most confusing of all for newbies, the bubble rule.
Changing the rules based on the participants doesn't sound like the right way to go. It only confuses the casual fan, discouraging some away from the sport. Football doesn't move the goal line because today's players are bigger, stronger and faster than they were in 30-40 years ago. Basketball hasn't raised the hoop, it's always been at 10 feet. The drag race standard has been a 1/4 mile for ages. And yes, the sled operators ultimately do what the promoter/pullers want in terms of sled setting, or at least they should since the promoter is supposed to be the paying customer. However, it is rather frustrating as a fan or a puller at a local level knowing your own little Farmall M could pull that very sled, at its current setting, 200 feet. It's become more of a tractor-tow and drag instead of a tractor pull. The casual fan wouldn't realize this, but for the more experienced, it cheapens the feats these machines perform on a weekly basis over the summer. In reality, with these new sleds, they shouldn't even start the chalk line until about 230 feet or so and make it more like a long jump pit in a track and field event. The pull doesn't really start until mid-track and all you're doing up to that point is building up speed for the hammer to drop, just like a long jumper builds up speed before the jump line. I'm not at all serious about this idea, but the analogy is sound. |
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Re: Sled speed? How about Full Pull?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Oliver 1650,
You mention that all of these other sports haven't changed their finish line so to speak. I'm not a big NHRA fan but if I recall they did change their finish line for their top classes,they did the opposite of what is happening in pulling. So changes do happen in other sports to help make the races and games more interesting for the spectators as well as safer for the drivers and players. How many people do you know that hate the new rules concerning concussions in the NFL, I know a lot that don't like it but I would bet that it will get worse over time. So almost all of the major sports are changing rules every year for both safety and keeping the games interesting for fans. Just look at all of the BS with NASCAR, they go the extra mile to the point of being insane. Rule changes between races is a little over kill. Back to pulling. Have you ever been to an antique pull where they use a drop pan sled? The tractors drive along with virtually no load then they are all stopped within 10 feet,why let them go 270' why not shorten up the show and stop them at about 50'? Because they are there to pull the sled as close to 300' as possible, it makes it look more worth the effort. The same could be said for the big classes and going 340', it makes it look like things are fast and exciting. It is fast and exciting, I can tell you that from personal experience. I have done everything from that slow antique Oliver Super 88 to a single engine mod pulling a slow heavy sled to a GN mod going fast out to almost 400'. Trust me when I say that the last one was the most fun and the crowd got the most excited about. Do I want to go 400' all of the time, no I don't but 320' to 340' I like. I also like pulloffs but my tractor not so much! It ends up costing the best pullers the most money because they end up in the most pulloffs therefore haveing to spend the most on parts and wrenching without getting more for doing it. The top level of pulling is now paying out more for pulloff in some cases. This a step in the right direction and we appreciate the sponsors that step up to help pay for this. S'no Farmer |
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Re: Sled speed? How about Full Pull?
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Sno Farmer,
Yes, I have pulled a drop pan at slow speeds and it sucks a lot of the time because its a 4 mph drag race. When the wrong sled (speed sled) is brought for a pace class instead of a true transfer sled (no drop, or can drop it early enough it doesn't kill the pull) everyone is within a few inches, not good pulling. It looks good on paper, but it makes the results predictable, at that level anyway. Everybody wants to go 300 and get a full pull; there's a benchmark, a precedent. With a floating finish, sure it feels good to post a big number and say you won at the end of the night, but there's something unique about getting to come back around and hook for the second go-round in the pull off. I have no issue floating the finish in the pull off, or even in the initial round if weather is threatening. As for the changing rules, I'm not against the concussion protocols in place in say the NFL, as you mentioned. It just seems to me that they (the NFL) marketed itself for years on the bone crunching hits of yesteryear, but when you watch a game today, most of it is legislated out of the game. They built their league on the backs of all those great players from the 1960s to the 1980 and even late 90s, but it's today's players that are rewarded with $100 million contracts and yet don't take nearly the same amount of punishment. It's more like two-hand touch in pads than tackle football. You can't hit high, you can't hit low, you can't give the QB a dirty look. It isn't the same game, just as pulling isn't the same. My point was that the 300-foot full pull, to me, is one of the basic elements that shouldn't be altered, just like 100-yards from goal line to goal line in the NFL has remained for decades. My long jump example was just an off the wall analogy. I've always held the notion that in order to be called a pull, it should be an actual pull from start to finish, or at least from the 75 foot marker to the end of the pull. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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sled guy
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AV is right. We can stop you wherever we want. But we USUALLY stop you where ever YOU (the puller) wants to be stopped, or in some cases the competition director wants to be stopped. So we think we are doing what the majority wants. But then you get on these message boards and sleds are getting slammed because they're letting 340' runs. The sled operators motto holds true "we're only gonna make one person happy per class and we'll be cheaters to the rest". It's especially tough for state level classes. If you set the sled to stop the best tractor at 310 then the rest of the state guys will be at 250- 290. Then we get yelled at for short tracking. The sled game was a lot more fun before everybody was able to express their infinite knowledge on the internet. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Outlaw Junky
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Sled Guy
You are very right in the so many ways with your post. Your job of trying to please the promoters, pullers, fans, and competition directors at every event is no cake walk. That I can agree with.Overall though, sled guy's that I have been around over the years can stop just about anyone where ever they want or are told to for that night. You are most times just doing what is being asked of you. Obviously there are going to be those nights where things just don't work the way you want from time to time, but that is part of this sport. We pull on many different tracks, dirt types, too moist, not enough moisture, etc. and that help keep this sport challenging. It also can lead to unhappy pullers, promoters, fans when those nights happen. It happens, but we move on to the next event. Keep in mind that most of what you read on these post is just noise. When it's threads you don't want to believe or hear, just pretend that when your reading about someone bashing a sleds performance, that you have a mod hooked to your sled at that point. Can you really hear anything else from the time it takes off to the time it finishes? It's pretty loud. That's kind of like most threads on this site. From the time most threads start until the end, they are most times just people creating "Noise". Keep up the good work! The pulling world needs you. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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Maybe?
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This statement is very interesting: "We usually stop where ever you want to be stopped". My question is: How many sled guys are talking to all the pullers collectively in a class? The sled guys might have a couple of pullers that are campaigning hard for "Let us run to 340" This is most likely b/c they think it will help them personally b/c I've never seen someone push for 340 when their vehicle finishes better when the winner stops at 310-315.
But are the other guys that would prefer, say, 290-320 going up to the sled guys and campaigning for "Try to keep us within a reasonable distance." I'd say usually no. I would guess that the "suggestions" that the sled guys hear are usually always slanted towards running further. I think that sled guys everywhere (not just you) should perhaps consider that there might possibly be a silent majority our there that are just leaving the sled guys to do their job and the minority that get in their ear every night pushing for longer distances might not represent the feelings of the entire class or organization. Obviously there is no way to know for sure short of an anonymous survey to that class or organization - it is just food for thought. The sled guys should discuss the question of distance for a given class (or pull) with the track officials and/or the president of the association BEFORE the pull starts and completely tune out the visits to the back glass that some pullers make during the course of the night... I think presidents and track officials are (usually) better suited to giving unbiased input as to what really represents what the pullers and organization wants. Not just what the loudest people want. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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sled guy
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While you do make some good points, most pullers don't really care how far you go. They're just happy to be there. They are the true silent majority. It just seems like it's the other way around thanks to the good ol internet. Personally if it's just one puller comes up and says they like the long fast runs, it's not gonna change anything. But if there's 2 or 3, or the promoter or competition director says they want long fast runs, that's who's paying me to be there so that's what I'm gonna do. Contrary to popular opinion we aren't cheaters and crooks, we actually want to put on a good show. |
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Re: Sled speed?
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I totally agree with Sled Guy, I came up in the era of the 80s as a teen and we had a Prostock in Wisc and I can remember Luedtke Eliminators being at every hook. I really remember a pull that there was a discussion about the sled set up and Lloyd himself told the guy screaming the most, "Tell me how far you want to go and I'll make sure I stop you within 5ft of it". This was on the heels of someone crying because he had a bad run and thought he was being cheated. I too was in the era of 300ft Full Pull and the scenario of Pull Offs but nowadays as its been stated tractors and technology has gone so far so fast that there needs to be some change. I do however think a defined FULL PULL distance be set, not this floating line crap. To me the bigger issues today is the indoor pulls, there just isn't a safe distance and room for the horsepower the tractors are making to be able to "Put on a good show" AND "Be good to the equipment/not destroy the tractor".
Sled Guy is right, "How far do you want to go" Fight that battle against the competition director or promoter and the pullers but everyone needs to come to the table and get it figured out before something really bad does happen that takes that decision right out of the hands or control of the pullers and show promoters. My opinion is move and set a defined Full Pull distance, in todays field that's 320ish, remember some places even outdoors do not have room to get longer. And a good sled operator will make it happen. Just my 2 cents.....Red712 |
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