Re: compact diesel pulling

	compact diesel pulling June 18, 2009 01:02PM
jhfarmer	Looking for information and rules for compact diesel pulling Reply Quote

	Re: me too June 19, 2009 01:00PM
BSTP Nut	I think this would be a great class with all of the 4 cyl. diesels out there. It would be quit a bit cheaper with the right rules and turbo and tire size. I think you would get a lot of colors showing up also. They would be easier to drag around the circut also, I wish someone would start one in Wisconsin. Reply Quote

Classes in Wisconsin June 22, 2009 09:41AM

knappmotorsports

There is a club that I belong to pulls in southern wisconsin and northern illinois that has a turbo diesel class. You can check out the rules at [rockcountypullers.com]. Or you may accsess the rule book through the home page at rockcountypullers.com. Its a wonderful group of people to pull with and a state of the art club. There is also a club that I know of in south western Wisconsin that offers a turbo diesel class. Americanminipuller.com Hope this helps you!

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	Re: compact diesel pulling June 21, 2009 12:32AM
bert	in europe we have an englisch rulebook for the 600 kg compact diesel class for more info about the tractors you can look on our site www.brotherstoy.nl we have a hood from a ford tw 20 with a vw 1.9 tdi engine the engine is tuned by ourself and now making over 400 hp by 9800 rpm greetings Bert Vos brothers toy holland Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling June 21, 2009 11:21AM
Dlansaw	Bert, Is there any way that your could email me a copy of your rules? Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling July 12, 2009 05:14AM
kirk	I would love to have a set of these compact diesel rules also! Kirk Bailey kirkbai2004@hotmail.com Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling June 22, 2009 04:47AM
Horsin' Around	Heck, I think it would be cool to participate in a stock compact diesel class. AP Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling June 22, 2009 07:07AM
bert	the movie off our last event ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0JRIlusfNg Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling June 23, 2009 09:11AM
Anonymous User	cant find the rule book on the brothers toy page. and does anyone know if any of these are built any where and might be for sale Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling June 23, 2009 10:18AM
Anonymous User	Curius. What size tires do they use? Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling June 23, 2009 02:16PM
dsaw	Is anyone around west central IL interested in these tractors? Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling June 23, 2009 05:52PM
bert	my brother already send one to diansaw by mail if you leave a message behind on info@brotherstoy.nl we can mail you one best regards Bert Vos Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling June 23, 2009 06:46PM
Jouk	Hello we are using Cepek tires from the fourwheeldrive trucks 15.50x15 inch, greetings Team Vos Brother's Toy www.brotherstoy.nl Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling June 23, 2009 06:50PM
Jouk	We have one for sale it's a John Deere hood with a VW engine like the former Sister's Enjoy good tractor can send picts from this tractor Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling June 25, 2009 05:52AM
Anonymous User	thanks can you send pics of this john deere, what is the price range on it Reply Quote

Re: compact diesel pulling June 24, 2009 03:26AM

Mike Battefeld

I think a compact tractor class has a lot of potential as it bridges the gap between small tractors and full bore big tractors. You can haul it in a race trailer and tow with a pickup. Mini rod sleds will stop them. There was some interest in that class back when the NTPA had their NGTPA division and a small number of tractors were built. That set of rules allowed 18.4x16.1 tires (same as mini rods), single charger, diesel only. My observation was that the tractors were somewhat under powered for the larger tires which led to some hop & handle issues. Tim Dilgard from Ohio had one built on the Cub Cadet compact tractor platform that was very nicely done, powered by I think a 3 cyl. IH diesel of some sort. Don't know that any of those tractors ran much if any after the NGTPA was shut down.

The primary issues I see with diesel only is finding an engine that is 1) big enough to generate the necessary power, 2) reasonably priced and available, and 3) doesn't weigh a ton.

Chassis wise I can see a lot of mini rod parts working in this application- gearboxes, rear ends, etc. Kind of a component compact, if you will. I think there should be some fairly strict rules on sheet metal and frame to make sure the class looks like a compact tractor.........the guy who owns a 4600 Deere compact wants to see a hopped up version of his chore tractor making a run, just like the person who loves red pro stocks because he or she owns a 1066. This is another reason why I believe the 18.4x16.1 tire makes sense- this is roughly what you see when you look at a 40hp compact tractor today.

At the risk of being criticized, I would be a proponent of making it diesel or alcohol. I think it makes sense from a cost standpoint, although the reality is probably the same as with big super stock- the two engine types would eventually have to be seperated. I see the alcohol version being much cheaper to build if the rules would allow automotive engines. For example there has been extensive R&D work done on the 151 CID Iron Duke Pontiac 4 cyl, salvage engines are dirt cheap to own and "go fast" parts are plentiful. In addition, the modern 4 cyl automotive technology is pretty cool stuff. I by no means want to start a battle over fuel types as they both have merit.....rules just need to be formulated in such a way as to encourage and allow as many competitors as possible.

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Re: compact diesel pulling June 24, 2009 09:21AM

Jouk

look on our website on webalbum, with the pictures of each evend are there movies also between the pictures, you can see that it is going very well with the 15 inch cepek tires, and the scale from the tractors looks very good , the rulebook is very sharp and clear about this
the overall weight is 600 kg, that's a challenge to built, and to get everything under the hood.
for pictures and movies from every evend. see "webalbum"
wish everybody good luck with building an creating a compact diesel class.

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Re: compact diesel pulling June 24, 2009 09:57AM

sfd823

Registered: 08/02/2008
Posts: 236

While I agree the alcohol thing would be alot of fun and i would have to have one, the fact is that modern tecnology NON turbo ricerocket gas engines would spank a turbo diesel at the same cubic inch. I laugh ricerockets just like most of us, but they've got better cylinder heads than 99% of the billet cylinder heads in the tractor pulling world, with V8 mods being the possible exception.

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	Re: compact diesel pulling June 24, 2009 12:53PM
Dlansaw	VW 1.9 liter engines are not hard to find and they appear to be doing a very nice job in Europe. I would agree that the rules need to keep the machine as close to stock appearing as possible. This would be a nice addition for the guys that dont have the budget for a competitive big tractor or a way to transport it, could be the next big thing. Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling June 25, 2009 11:03AM
mo puller	in my opinion some form of mini rod chassis and 5.9cummins- 3x3 gt 42 turbo and compact tractor sheet metal would be a heck of a class and fairly inexpensive. could use mini rod sled also. Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling June 25, 2009 08:09PM
bert	in our european rule we can go to 4 cil max and max 2.5 ltr and only 2 valves per cilinder and we weight 600 kg fuel pump,turbo are free and can be as big as possible and there´s no max in rpm. water injection and intercooler are alowed. we drive with an 8 inch crower one plated clutch. best regards team vos Reply Quote

Re: compact diesel pulling July 07, 2009 11:40AM

RyanB

mo puller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> in my opinion some form of mini rod chassis and
> 5.9cummins- 3x3 gt 42 turbo and compact tractor
> sheet metal would be a heck of a class and fairly
> inexpensive. could use mini rod sled also.

I have been looking into it for some time. We need something that can run with the gasser class of 2000-2200lbs mini's with 18.4/16.1 cepeks. I have done some figuring and know I can build a cromolly chassis,sheet metal F106 rear end, TRB machines gear box and a 5.9 with a 3" single and come in just shy of 1800lbs. Add my weight 6'/260lbs and I can fit into our 2200lbs class. For those with only a 2000lbs class the 3.9L 4bt would be the better route and from what I just heard you can punch it out to 4.5L just by using the crank and rods from a 4.5L ISB cummins.
Horse Power wise with the 5.9L with a single and no water injection...you would be in the range of 500-800lbs. I would actually like to see a 2.8" charger be ran...just to keep the hp down a touch. This combo would fit in with any of the naturally aspriated small/big block mini's and if you want to run with a blown class...just alow twins.

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	Re: compact diesel pulling July 10, 2009 02:27AM
ryanb	anyone else have more info on these in the US??? Reply Quote

Re: compact diesel pulling July 12, 2009 12:27PM

mxpuller

Registered: 03/16/2009
Posts: 19

Work has been done on a set of rules for this class but to date, there has been a significant amount of legitimate concerns. Here is where we have landed as of today:
1. Chassis would be based off of all the minirod specs. tire size, length, roll cage, hitch, etc.
2. Weight has not been handled yet. Thought it would be around 2500#.
3. Engine: 4L max. This would allow the 4B cummins engine to be used. It came from factory with a P-pump already installed. The truck guys have all the R&D done on the internal components. Overall, the best choice. But anything 4 liters or less would be allowed.
4. Turbo: The rule here would be to limit it to a 3X4 ish turbo, but we would love to see no turbo rule. This is a small engine, it will only turn so big of a turbo. Let the laws of physics dictate the limit.
5. pump: P-pump, max barrel limit of 13mm.
6. Intercooler: Not allowed. Reason for this is that we need to keep weight down as well as cost.
7. Sheetmetal: Run anything you want as long as it is fully enclosed and looks like a tractor.

Like I said, anyone can throw stones but looking at a simple, viable, long lasting, entertaining class, this is the best we could come up with.

Now, this is only a mini prostock type of class. We have not even ventured into the alcohol or the superstock versions of these. We need to take small steps or nothing will ever get beyond this computer screen.

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Re: compact diesel pulling July 13, 2009 04:52AM

RyanB

There are two things I see there with the set of rules that you posted that should be changed.

Limiting the pump to a maximum of a P-pump with 13mm P&B's isn't right. 13mm's didn't come stock in anything that this engine came in or the pump. I agree with the maximum pump size of a p-pump but I would omit the plunger size.

The other thing is you mentioned that the truck guys have just about figured everything out with the cummins that this would work quite well. One thing that the truck guys with the 5.9's have figured out quite well is that when dealing with a single charger...you need an intercooler. When running twins you can get away without running what but its almost impossible to spool up even a small single while pulling and keep it lit, especially when running a clutch. The effects of the intercooler are not for cooling the incoming air but acting like an air tank for pressure vessel. IC's arn't that much money anymore and they weigh hardly anything (35-40lbs max).

Ryan

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Re: compact diesel pulling July 14, 2009 05:01AM

mxpuller

Registered: 03/16/2009
Posts: 19

Both your points are valid and could easily be agreed upon.

The intent with p-pumps were to keep it simple. 13mm parts are basicly standard for pump shops. Cheap and easy.

IC's are great. I totally agree with you comments but remember, it isnt only the weight of the intercooler, it is the plumbing, the tank, water, ice and pumps that you not only have to make weight with, but squeeze under the hood. Life without them would be much simpler. As for the turbo spinning, you might just have to size your turbo a little smaller to account for your setup. These little guys will most likely not spin much larger than a 3LM or S300, Maybe a HX 50 if they are lucky. Target for HP would be in the 300-400 hp range, maybe more depending on how things work out.

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Re: compact diesel pulling August 05, 2009 12:54AM

carey

Currently own ONE TOUGH CUB that Tim Dilgard built. Pull with Keystone V-8 Mini-pullers in western Pa. Very competative with the open class big block mini's in the 2050 and 2100 # classes. DADDY'S LITTLE FAWN John Deere also pulls with us. We are running 180 ci 3 cyl. diesels w/ turbo , water injection and 18.4X16.1 tires.We would like to see more BABY SMOKERS come pull with us! V-8's make noise-we make smoke ! CROWDS LIKE SMOKE !!! I have current rules,pics,and info on building more tractors--- we are. LETS TALK

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	Re: compact diesel pulling August 17, 2009 01:52PM
Mike M	I saw the cub and john deere pull the other night at goshen ohio, and im pretty sure, took 1st and 2nd. If someone could email some rules and info about building one of the compacts for western pa, that would be great, I know several people that may be interseted. Thanks alot Mike mracing20@hotmail.com Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling December 30, 2009 06:08AM
jrracing08	I am very interested in building a tractor. Can I get some info please. Thanks. Reply Quote

Re: compact diesel pulling July 12, 2009 05:12AM

kirk

I was wondering if anyone has ever used any of the newer 3 or 4 cyl. Isuzu industrial engines [irrigation] in their pulling applications? I work for a distributor in which I have access to these engines in which I may be able to get at a reasonable employee price. Maybe even find or use a long block core and build up from scratch. Has anyone used one to know if the bottom end will hold up or other?
I would like to know the standard cubes [limits] that are out there that you guys have as cube limits. Is there a standard? I am told the three cyls.are 70 cu.in. and the fours I really dont know what it is. Do you invest in a 3 cyl. or the 4 cyl. to begin the building process? With a 3cyl. my guess is you can always machine it to go bigger but then the bigger you get the easier it will be to blow apart...On the other hand if you build a 4 cyl. you may end up being over powered.. Does anyone understand what I am saying? Any helpful links to any other organizations [compact diesel] websites would be great also to find out this above info I am seeking.
Are the Kubota D1105s just being used because they just have a well built bottom end?
Anyone with a link to the Pro stock diesel 4 cyl.class that has been becoming popular, please email me also..

I would like to know more about what engines you are using and what technology you are putting in these engines to make them do what they do.
I would like details as to what is done with the pumps,turbos,etc. Are most just stock with a little bit done to the pump and turbo? Any info would help.

Thanks!
Kirk Bailey
Nebraska-USA

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Re: compact diesel pulling July 15, 2009 12:25AM

bertr vos

we are driving vw 1.9 ltr 4 cil engine with an bosch a pump
in the engine we made an other camshaft and modified pistons and home made injectors and home made intercooler and water injection
we are driving with an holset hx 40 60 mm inlet and 16 exhaust housing
we are making about 9500 rpm and than making about 500 hp
our wheel speed is around 95 kmh and the weight of the tractor is 600 kg
here is a link from you tube from our last event

[www.youtube.com]

best regards Bert Vos

team brothers toy www.brotherstoy.nl

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	Re: compact diesel pulling July 15, 2009 02:57PM
Moline Oliver Cockshutt Registered: 01/17/2009 Posts: 207	That SOB is awesome. Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling July 16, 2009 03:13AM
ryanb	Yeah, it does go pretty good though. I think in North America though they are pretty much going to have to run the 18.4/16.1 though...I still would love to see a 6 cylinder be able to run...keep it under 375 cubes and I would be very happy and let us run at 2500lbs. Ryan Reply Quote

	Re: compact diesel pulling July 16, 2009 05:27AM
Anonymous User	i dunno i like the idea of running with the 34 inch tires and a 4 cylinder just like the europeans run, if i build one that is how it will be and run in some sort a quarter scale category instead a mini rod. but everyone likes different things, i will say this though it definitely would not be stock it would bout same horsepower and rpm as the europeans Reply Quote

Re: compact diesel pulling July 16, 2009 10:30AM

bert vos

i think its the best if everyone has the same rules in europe as in the US maybe we can drive than in the US or the US in europe
i think its a dream of every european to drive in the US and maybe for an american to drive over here
i know for sure you can make a lot of HP out of a 4 cil engine
our rulebook says max 2,5 ltr 4 cil engine 2 valves pro cil
we also have one tractor for sale over here for questions you can always give us an email

best regards
team brothers toy

www.brotherstoy.nl

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	Re: compact diesel pulling July 16, 2009 11:11AM
Anonymous User	I agree with Bert. Looks like Europe has some real good rules and some hard running compact diesels. . Reply Quote

Re: compact diesel pulling July 18, 2009 04:27AM

ryanb

As much as I love the look of the european compacts I don't know if I will be able to get as much of a following for a whole class so where I am I think its honestly best for me to try to fit into the current 18.4/16.1 tired class in either the N/A motors or the Blown class. To fit into the blown class the 5.9 is going to be the way to go and I know I can keep it down in 2000lbs range.

RyanB

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