10:56:23am, Sunday, May 19, 2024
compact diesel pulling
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Looking for information and rules for compact diesel pulling |
Re: me too
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I think this would be a great class with all of the 4 cyl. diesels out there. It would be quit a bit cheaper with the right rules and turbo and tire size. I think you would get a lot of colors showing up also. They would be easier to drag around the circut also, I wish someone would start one in Wisconsin. |
Classes in Wisconsin
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There is a club that I belong to pulls in southern wisconsin and northern illinois that has a turbo diesel class. You can check out the rules at [rockcountypullers.com]. Or you may accsess the rule book through the home page at rockcountypullers.com. Its a wonderful group of people to pull with and a state of the art club. There is also a club that I know of in south western Wisconsin that offers a turbo diesel class. Americanminipuller.com Hope this helps you! |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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in europe we have an englisch rulebook for the 600 kg compact diesel class for more info about the tractors you can look on our site
www.brotherstoy.nl we have a hood from a ford tw 20 with a vw 1.9 tdi engine the engine is tuned by ourself and now making over 400 hp by 9800 rpm greetings Bert Vos brothers toy holland |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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Bert,
Is there any way that your could email me a copy of your rules? |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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I would love to have a set of these compact diesel rules also!
Kirk Bailey kirkbai2004@hotmail.com |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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Horsin' Around
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Heck, I think it would be cool to participate in a stock compact diesel class.
AP |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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the movie off our last event
://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0JRIlusfNg |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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Anonymous User
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cant find the rule book on the brothers toy page. and does anyone know if any of these are built any where and might be for sale |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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Anonymous User
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Curius. What size tires do they use? |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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dsaw
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Is anyone around west central IL interested in these tractors? |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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my brother already send one to diansaw by mail if you leave a message behind on info@brotherstoy.nl we can mail you one
best regards Bert Vos |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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Hello
we are using Cepek tires from the fourwheeldrive trucks 15.50x15 inch, greetings Team Vos Brother's Toy www.brotherstoy.nl |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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We have one for sale
it's a John Deere hood with a VW engine like the former Sister's Enjoy good tractor can send picts from this tractor |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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Anonymous User
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thanks can you send pics of this john deere, what is the price range on it |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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I think a compact tractor class has a lot of potential as it bridges the gap between small tractors and full bore big tractors. You can haul it in a race trailer and tow with a pickup. Mini rod sleds will stop them. There was some interest in that class back when the NTPA had their NGTPA division and a small number of tractors were built. That set of rules allowed 18.4x16.1 tires (same as mini rods), single charger, diesel only. My observation was that the tractors were somewhat under powered for the larger tires which led to some hop & handle issues. Tim Dilgard from Ohio had one built on the Cub Cadet compact tractor platform that was very nicely done, powered by I think a 3 cyl. IH diesel of some sort. Don't know that any of those tractors ran much if any after the NGTPA was shut down.
The primary issues I see with diesel only is finding an engine that is 1) big enough to generate the necessary power, 2) reasonably priced and available, and 3) doesn't weigh a ton. Chassis wise I can see a lot of mini rod parts working in this application- gearboxes, rear ends, etc. Kind of a component compact, if you will. I think there should be some fairly strict rules on sheet metal and frame to make sure the class looks like a compact tractor.........the guy who owns a 4600 Deere compact wants to see a hopped up version of his chore tractor making a run, just like the person who loves red pro stocks because he or she owns a 1066. This is another reason why I believe the 18.4x16.1 tire makes sense- this is roughly what you see when you look at a 40hp compact tractor today. At the risk of being criticized, I would be a proponent of making it diesel or alcohol. I think it makes sense from a cost standpoint, although the reality is probably the same as with big super stock- the two engine types would eventually have to be seperated. I see the alcohol version being much cheaper to build if the rules would allow automotive engines. For example there has been extensive R&D work done on the 151 CID Iron Duke Pontiac 4 cyl, salvage engines are dirt cheap to own and "go fast" parts are plentiful. In addition, the modern 4 cyl automotive technology is pretty cool stuff. I by no means want to start a battle over fuel types as they both have merit.....rules just need to be formulated in such a way as to encourage and allow as many competitors as possible. |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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look on our website on webalbum, with the pictures of each evend are there movies also between the pictures, you can see that it is going very well with the 15 inch cepek tires, and the scale from the tractors looks very good , the rulebook is very sharp and clear about this
the overall weight is 600 kg, that's a challenge to built, and to get everything under the hood. for pictures and movies from every evend. see "webalbum" wish everybody good luck with building an creating a compact diesel class. |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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Registered: 08/02/2008 Posts: 236 |
While I agree the alcohol thing would be alot of fun and i would have to have one, the fact is that modern tecnology NON turbo ricerocket gas engines would spank a turbo diesel at the same cubic inch. I laugh ricerockets just like most of us, but they've got better cylinder heads than 99% of the billet cylinder heads in the tractor pulling world, with V8 mods being the possible exception. |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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VW 1.9 liter engines are not hard to find and they appear to be doing a very nice job in Europe. I would agree that the rules need to keep the machine as close to stock appearing as possible. This would be a nice addition for the guys that dont have the budget for a competitive big tractor or a way to transport it, could be the next big thing. |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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mo puller
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in my opinion some form of mini rod chassis and 5.9cummins- 3x3 gt 42 turbo and compact tractor sheet metal would be a heck of a class and fairly inexpensive. could use mini rod sled also. |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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in our european rule we can go to 4 cil max and max 2.5 ltr and only 2 valves per cilinder and we weight 600 kg fuel pump,turbo are free and can be as big as possible and thereĀ“s no max in rpm.
water injection and intercooler are alowed. we drive with an 8 inch crower one plated clutch. best regards team vos |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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mo puller Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > in my opinion some form of mini rod chassis and > 5.9cummins- 3x3 gt 42 turbo and compact tractor > sheet metal would be a heck of a class and fairly > inexpensive. could use mini rod sled also. I have been looking into it for some time. We need something that can run with the gasser class of 2000-2200lbs mini's with 18.4/16.1 cepeks. I have done some figuring and know I can build a cromolly chassis,sheet metal F106 rear end, TRB machines gear box and a 5.9 with a 3" single and come in just shy of 1800lbs. Add my weight 6'/260lbs and I can fit into our 2200lbs class. For those with only a 2000lbs class the 3.9L 4bt would be the better route and from what I just heard you can punch it out to 4.5L just by using the crank and rods from a 4.5L ISB cummins. Horse Power wise with the 5.9L with a single and no water injection...you would be in the range of 500-800lbs. I would actually like to see a 2.8" charger be ran...just to keep the hp down a touch. This combo would fit in with any of the naturally aspriated small/big block mini's and if you want to run with a blown class...just alow twins. |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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anyone else have more info on these in the US??? |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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Registered: 03/16/2009 Posts: 19 |
Work has been done on a set of rules for this class but to date, there has been a significant amount of legitimate concerns. Here is where we have landed as of today:
1. Chassis would be based off of all the minirod specs. tire size, length, roll cage, hitch, etc. 2. Weight has not been handled yet. Thought it would be around 2500#. 3. Engine: 4L max. This would allow the 4B cummins engine to be used. It came from factory with a P-pump already installed. The truck guys have all the R&D done on the internal components. Overall, the best choice. But anything 4 liters or less would be allowed. 4. Turbo: The rule here would be to limit it to a 3X4 ish turbo, but we would love to see no turbo rule. This is a small engine, it will only turn so big of a turbo. Let the laws of physics dictate the limit. 5. pump: P-pump, max barrel limit of 13mm. 6. Intercooler: Not allowed. Reason for this is that we need to keep weight down as well as cost. 7. Sheetmetal: Run anything you want as long as it is fully enclosed and looks like a tractor. Like I said, anyone can throw stones but looking at a simple, viable, long lasting, entertaining class, this is the best we could come up with. Now, this is only a mini prostock type of class. We have not even ventured into the alcohol or the superstock versions of these. We need to take small steps or nothing will ever get beyond this computer screen. |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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There are two things I see there with the set of rules that you posted that should be changed.
Limiting the pump to a maximum of a P-pump with 13mm P&B's isn't right. 13mm's didn't come stock in anything that this engine came in or the pump. I agree with the maximum pump size of a p-pump but I would omit the plunger size. The other thing is you mentioned that the truck guys have just about figured everything out with the cummins that this would work quite well. One thing that the truck guys with the 5.9's have figured out quite well is that when dealing with a single charger...you need an intercooler. When running twins you can get away without running what but its almost impossible to spool up even a small single while pulling and keep it lit, especially when running a clutch. The effects of the intercooler are not for cooling the incoming air but acting like an air tank for pressure vessel. IC's arn't that much money anymore and they weigh hardly anything (35-40lbs max). Ryan |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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Registered: 03/16/2009 Posts: 19 |
Both your points are valid and could easily be agreed upon.
The intent with p-pumps were to keep it simple. 13mm parts are basicly standard for pump shops. Cheap and easy. IC's are great. I totally agree with you comments but remember, it isnt only the weight of the intercooler, it is the plumbing, the tank, water, ice and pumps that you not only have to make weight with, but squeeze under the hood. Life without them would be much simpler. As for the turbo spinning, you might just have to size your turbo a little smaller to account for your setup. These little guys will most likely not spin much larger than a 3LM or S300, Maybe a HX 50 if they are lucky. Target for HP would be in the 300-400 hp range, maybe more depending on how things work out. |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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Currently own ONE TOUGH CUB that Tim Dilgard built. Pull with Keystone V-8 Mini-pullers in western Pa. Very competative with the open class big block mini's in the 2050 and 2100 # classes. DADDY'S LITTLE FAWN John Deere also pulls with us. We are running 180 ci 3 cyl. diesels w/ turbo , water injection and 18.4X16.1 tires.We would like to see more BABY SMOKERS come pull with us! V-8's make noise-we make smoke ! CROWDS LIKE SMOKE !!! I have current rules,pics,and info on building more tractors--- we are. LETS TALK |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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I saw the cub and john deere pull the other night at goshen ohio, and im pretty sure, took 1st and 2nd. If someone could email some rules and info about building one of the compacts for western pa, that would be great, I know several people that may be interseted. Thanks alot Mike mracing20@hotmail.com |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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I am very interested in building a tractor. Can I get some info please. Thanks. |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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I was wondering if anyone has ever used any of the newer 3 or 4 cyl. Isuzu industrial engines [irrigation] in their pulling applications? I work for a distributor in which I have access to these engines in which I may be able to get at a reasonable employee price. Maybe even find or use a long block core and build up from scratch. Has anyone used one to know if the bottom end will hold up or other?
I would like to know the standard cubes [limits] that are out there that you guys have as cube limits. Is there a standard? I am told the three cyls.are 70 cu.in. and the fours I really dont know what it is. Do you invest in a 3 cyl. or the 4 cyl. to begin the building process? With a 3cyl. my guess is you can always machine it to go bigger but then the bigger you get the easier it will be to blow apart...On the other hand if you build a 4 cyl. you may end up being over powered.. Does anyone understand what I am saying? Any helpful links to any other organizations [compact diesel] websites would be great also to find out this above info I am seeking. Are the Kubota D1105s just being used because they just have a well built bottom end? Anyone with a link to the Pro stock diesel 4 cyl.class that has been becoming popular, please email me also.. I would like to know more about what engines you are using and what technology you are putting in these engines to make them do what they do. I would like details as to what is done with the pumps,turbos,etc. Are most just stock with a little bit done to the pump and turbo? Any info would help. Thanks! Kirk Bailey Nebraska-USA |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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we are driving vw 1.9 ltr 4 cil engine with an bosch a pump
in the engine we made an other camshaft and modified pistons and home made injectors and home made intercooler and water injection we are driving with an holset hx 40 60 mm inlet and 16 exhaust housing we are making about 9500 rpm and than making about 500 hp our wheel speed is around 95 kmh and the weight of the tractor is 600 kg here is a link from you tube from our last event [www.youtube.com] best regards Bert Vos team brothers toy www.brotherstoy.nl |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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Registered: 01/17/2009 Posts: 207 |
That SOB is awesome. |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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Yeah, it does go pretty good though. I think in North America though they are pretty much going to have to run the 18.4/16.1 though...I still would love to see a 6 cylinder be able to run...keep it under 375 cubes and I would be very happy and let us run at 2500lbs.
Ryan |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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Anonymous User
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i dunno i like the idea of running with the 34 inch tires and a 4 cylinder just like the europeans run, if i build one that is how it will be and run in some sort a quarter scale category instead a mini rod. but everyone likes different things, i will say this though it definitely would not be stock it would bout same horsepower and rpm as the europeans |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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i think its the best if everyone has the same rules in europe as in the US maybe we can drive than in the US or the US in europe
i think its a dream of every european to drive in the US and maybe for an american to drive over here i know for sure you can make a lot of HP out of a 4 cil engine our rulebook says max 2,5 ltr 4 cil engine 2 valves pro cil we also have one tractor for sale over here for questions you can always give us an email best regards team brothers toy www.brotherstoy.nl |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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Anonymous User
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I agree with Bert. Looks like Europe has some real good rules and some hard running compact diesels. . |
Re: compact diesel pulling
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As much as I love the look of the european compacts I don't know if I will be able to get as much of a following for a whole class so where I am I think its honestly best for me to try to fit into the current 18.4/16.1 tired class in either the N/A motors or the Blown class. To fit into the blown class the 5.9 is going to be the way to go and I know I can keep it down in 2000lbs range.
RyanB |
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