08:22:02am, Saturday, May 18, 2024
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What is the Next Level ?
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Moderator Registered: 02/28/2011 Posts: 622 |
For weeks I have been pondering this very question! The Farm Machinery Show changed some of my thought process on this topic, but I would love to hear your feedback on What the Next Level is? This article was inspired by Bill Voreis after a discussion on the message board. Bill raised the point and I had to write a bit about it. I have bounced this idea off of many friends and mentors, but still haven't found the true direction!
What is the Next Level ? Miles Krieger My Blog: Miles Beyond 300 [www.facebook.com] milesbeyond300@gmail |
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Re: What is the Next Level ?
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 387 |
The biggest problems I see with pulling reaching "the next level" are the same issue's that have plagued it for years-
1) To many organizations. In Miles article he talks about NASCAR and NHRA, the two highest forms of stock car racing and drag racing. What is pulling's highest form? NTPA, PPL, OUTLAWS? When I go to a national drag race I am assured to see John Force, Tony Schumacher, etc. Same with NASCAR, I will see JR, Johnson, Harvick, etc. How about pulling? For instance, I go to a "national NTPA pull" I'm not guaranteed to see the Boyd's, Wayne Sullivan, Joe Eder etc, and vice versa with a PPL pull, no Bauer, Berg, etc. Who is pulling's "national modified champion"? Is it Joe Eder or Bret Berg? Alky super stock champion? Jeff Hothem or John Strickland? 2) Scheduling. Every year USA Today has a full page insert of all motorsport schedules for the year, NASCAR, NHRA, Indy Car, IMSA, Formula 1, etc. Where is pulling? You can't put three "national" pulling schedules in the paper. 3) Major Markets. In the 80's pulling events were held at every major stadium and arena in every major city in the country including the Silverdome, Madison Square Garden, Anaheim Stadium, etc. Sponsors could go and watch a pull in a luxury suite. What is the biggest city that pulling visits now? I would say Louisville. What is number 2? I would be curious to see what that would be. 4) One winner. NASCAR cup races have 1 winner, NHRA has a winner for each of their professional and sportsman classes and so on. Louisville has a finals program where pullers qualify. Most other events run two separate events for a weekend. I went on Friday and the Holman Bros won the 4wd class, Jake went on Saturday and Larry Peterson won the 4wd class. Who was the 4wd winner? Dan Mayer www.pulling-reference.com Dedicated to Preserving the History of Tractor & Truck Pulling |
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Thank you Dan!
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J. Yantes
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Dan,
You nailed it. To many sanctioning bodies! It spreads dollars way to thin. If you take the sponsorship dollars combined across the 3 organizations there is a lot of sponsorship dollars in pulling, going 3 different directions. I would also argue there are to many classes at the National level. There are all kinds of drag racing classes across the country, but NHRA only showcases a few at the big shows. NTPA alone has 12. I also think at your national events, all national classes need to be there. I'll take it one step further and say national licensed tractors should not be allowed to pull on state and regional shows, it dilutes pulling. The national show loses value because I can go to my local county fair and see the national guys. It's all about controlling your product. |
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Re: Thank you Dan!
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579 |
By the metric offered not only are there too many classes/sanctioning bodies, but too many national events-if we apply the same logic. Classes that are already threadbare by the end of the season through attrition would be extinct by the first weekend of August. Either that would happen or pullers would cherry pick the events they attend, diluting the product that the fans see. If we think it's a money game now, shooo-weeeee......
Ideally you would have about 15-18 sessions of pulling for national classes across a season, the metric offered would drive that number beyond 30. Our two biggest limitations, time and labor, not money, would rear their ugly head. The last thing we need is a single sanctioning body---look at NASCAR and what's happened there. A third generation of France has become out of touch with what drove the sport into the early 2000's (and I believe the soul of the sport died when Dale Sr. died) and we ended up with a very bland representation of racing. The first and only NASCAR race Ive been to was at Bristol in 2008 or 2009---I could have taken a nap! It wasn't the Bristol I grew up seeing on tv. Much of that is due in part to that group's lack of focus on keeping the product like the fans want it to be, and a huge reason why dirt track racing is big as it is, with old-time racing fans want to see something not homogenized and slicked-up. Further-Drag racing at all levels is booming. Numbers are up on Fox Sports vs. the numbers on ESPN, and the grassroots stuff is HUGE. It's not just an NHRA game; As I left Louisville after the last session of the Farm Show, I dialed up the "Lights Out 8" No prep event on my phone to live stream while I was waiting to get out of the parking lot....there were 21,000 people watching online with me in addition to the thousands in attendance at this event in Georgia. NHRA was at Pomona that weekend too, with big numbers there...One sanctioning body cannot service an entire sport adequately and when it does it's always in some sort of turmoil...who's the host hated guy in sports in my opinion? Roger Goodell, and internationally Bernie Ecclestone, the former head of F1, where they burn TENS of millions of dollars per year. Neither guy has their picture hanging in the office for employee of the month. The competition between the three major bodies to service the promoters, pullers, and fans does raise the bar in a very real sense. A solitary source for competition would create complacency. What should be done, and IS done, throughout the sport, is offering a professional product to new consumers. The comprehensive TV packages and the ability to reach new fans through social media is the new frontier...how do we collectively work that as an advantage of the sport to monetize our activities further through sponsorship? Answer that and next level is a rung closer. The fact is that we are all in this together; breaking down an organization or organizations is a look we don't need to build up this sport to new fans. Putting sponsor dollars into a single pile just means they would need to be spread out just like they are to begin with. In the end the market should decide where racers race and pullers pull, and it will. If there was a move to limit puller X to collect points or monies at state events, some promoters would likely pay some pullers to show up. I can tell you that I wouldn't be as involved in this sport as I am, had I not seen some national level guys along the way at local events when Louisville was THE national event for a long time for me. As a kid who saw state level tractors go down the track and then to see a National level guy follow in behind them, I got curious to see MORE of that beyond my local fair. It's much like sampling a product, where you may see 1 or 2 national guys at a local pull, I was driven, literally and figuratively, to see 10-15 vehicles just like those two at a national pull. Think about it. Bryan Lively - 
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Re: Thank you Dan!
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lewis
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You cant compare any type of auto racing with tractor pulling everyone is associated with cars chevy. ford .dodge and so on any where every 15 year old kid dreams of what there going to be driving. Tractor pulling is a rural area sport and will never be able to be promoted like the autos .Theres people in the cities that don't no what a tractor is but mention a corvette This is not being compared apples to apples |
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Re: Thank you Dan!
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579 |
Lewis you couldn't be more wrong in one respect. I am measuring similar factors that are comparable between motorsports and sports in general, and those kind of parameters can be used in any sort of business.
No doubt you ARE right in that the pulling "base" is more rural but the diesel truck component of the sport is far bigger than I even realize, those folks have addresses on farm roads AND at the end of cul-de-sacs in the suburbs. One look at the crowd at the Scheid pull can tell you how influential the "rollin coal" folks can be. The tools to promote sports, motorsports, or any product are the same; to discount what's being done already through social media by folks like Miles, the Beer Money Crew, PRN, and others is foolish. Lewis I did a live Facebook video of the crew at Louisville moving dirt.....MOVING DIRT...and in 24 hours it had 24,000 views....of MOVING DIRT. No smoke, no test runs, no sleds, nothing but trucks and construction equipment. Beer Money and PRN have significantly higher reach than I do, and no doubt had it been through their channels of social media no telling what the reach could have been. My business...anyone in the business of promoting pulling...should be all about putting the sport in the faces of that 15 year old kid who might like a Vette but he also needs to see what a four engine mod/pro stock/light super/twd is; he might just like it, you never know. A gearhead is a gearhead is a gearhead... Bryan Lively -
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Respectfully disagree
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J. Yantes
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The competing sanctioning bodies are terrible. It spreads sponsorship dollars out instead of in one kitty. The other thing you hit on, but needs examined. Yes in the 80s and 90s there were fewer "national" classes. Which is a good thing. With one sanctioning body you can now work the laws of economics. The price of a national show (purse money) goes up. Resulting in fewer events. Quantity vs quality. You take our class (LSS), the class is far from dead but pullers spread out over 3 circuits doesn't do much for the fans. If I want to see John Force I go to an NHRA event. I also can't go to my local drag strip and watch John Force pound the local guys with his nitro burning funny car. I find it odd that in pulling competing national sanctioning bodies is good, but you look at every other sport in the USA motor or otherwise there is one sanctioning body. Pulling isn't growing, next leveling, pick your verbiage, because it's not following s successful business model laid out by other sanctioning bodies. Who is NASCAR,, NHRA, NFL, MLB, MLS, NHL, NBA, PGA etc..... Who is their competition? No one! I don't know why in the pulling community this is such a hard concept to grab hold of. You raise the price of the show which will make a lot of promoters drop out. You lower the number of national level classes for the timeliness of the show. You protect your regional and state guys by not lettting the national guys come play, by doing that you've made an exclusive series and a reason to go see the big show. Maybe we will forever disagree on this, but good discourse none the less. |
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Re: Thank you Dan!
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C Downs
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Some VERY good points given by everyone.
Miles, I actually have a show that I filmed with Andy Buhr and Kurt Simmons and we had a round table discussion that was driven by the very same post. But, we discussed it and decided that after the responses we heard at Gordyville about the first episode of Loud and Proud, our current fans would not be interested in another "talk" show. So, we shelved it for later date. One of the things that was brought up in our discussion was that the competition level does not necessarily need to be brought to the next level. Current pulling competition is fierce. What the sport needs (in my opinion) is the next level of marketing. Bryan made an excellent point about Lights Out 8. I have maybe 1 or 2 friends on Facebook that are drag race inclined and follow about 3 different drag racing Facebook pages but other than that, my feed is tractor pull concentric. But on Louisville weekend, I knew more about what was happening as far as wrecks and records in Georgia than I knew about Louisville. And that was not by choice, the few people that I know that were involved covered it so thoroughly from so many angles that it was right F'n there. Now, I am not taking away from anyone that is currently part of our "press.' Our sport just has limited human resources. I actually mentioned to a young man at Gordyville this year that he should consider contributing to the HOOK this summer. I mean, he is a young man that attends several pulls though out the summer and is a HUGE historian and as the term goes "gets it." We need more boots on the ground covering the sport and showing it to people. Those of you familiar with my (one thus far) video podcast can see that I currently have 480ish people following the FB page. That is literally 10 times the followers that Larry Dixon has for his podcast FB page and he is a multi-time world champion. Drag Illustrated is (in my opinion) the best non-biased source of drag racing input/news and they have a following of 250,000ish. Beer Money has more than 500,000. So why aren't we seeing any new people at pulls. WTH. (In my opinion), the market appeal of pulling shifted after the 90's and we missed the boat. We have our heads in the sand as far as who is attending a pull. The dynamic of the farm has changed tremendously since the 90's and we are trying to market the sport like "the old days." We have a product, we have to SELL it to people. We can't just sit back an think that people are going to buy it because it is there. It is not like a load of corn that goes to the elevator. The elevator is going to take your load of corn no matter what. (the price is another issue) but that load of corn is going to sell. You don't have to take out an ad to show that your corn is the best or why people should buy your corn. Spectators can take or leave tractor pulling. We have to be able to appeal to them. We have to SELL the show to them. And if it means that we have to Segway into a new era of the sport to appeal to a new/different audience, then we have to make the decision to make that move. This way of thinking may mean the "death" or maybe the "evolution" of some traditional classes but if we want to see the "next level" of growth, we need to approach this as if it is a business and that our very lively hood depends on its existence or we are going loose even our current market share and never gain the interest that will get the attention of any new market money the will bolster the future. The subject obviously cannot be covered in a couple of paragraphs but as a whole, the sport, especially its national leadership needs to really look at our current market and learn how to expand our appeal. Only then, will we be able to attain the kind of money to get back to competitors to grow the sport. Just a thought. |
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Re: Thank you Dan!
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579 |
Carl-
Good, good points. Send that young man my way, I am always looking for more troops to spread the word. Thanks. Bryan Lively -
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Re: Thank you Dan!
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How i was drawn to this sport. As far back as I can remember(I'm 27). My dad and grandpa for my birthday took me to the iowa state fair tractor pull. Then a few weeks later to the bethany mo pull and dirt track races. This is where it all started for me. I didnt grow up on a farm but was around it as im from a small town in southern ia. I built a truck originally because I was to afraid to ask for help for a tractor. Also these exaggerated numbers of cost to build you hear at pulls really doesn't help. But at the same time im glad i started with a truck. Because now i know the only way i would build a tractor is if i went component chassis classes. Would have hate to spent all the time an money on an ag chassis myself. You guys talk about trying to get young people involved and interested in the sport. Everthing happening online and more tv time hepls. But its hard to really get them if they don't have parents to get them there to experience it in person. So I think more focus on a family oriented event would help. Also maybe trying to get one big class to a smaller pull every once in awhile. |
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It's really a three part question.
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
Miles;
Thanks for the topic. I have been thinking about this for a couple months, to me it's really a 3 part question. There are really 3 levels of pulling that readers of this board are involved in. Lets start with the antique classes of pulling. I believe that just by they nature of the term "antique" we can safely say that very little needs to be changed with regards to rules, classes and growth is a rather consent value. Next would be the state/club/regional level of pulling. To me this level is the healthiest of in all the sport. With the growth of the 4.1, Light PS, LLSS and a variety of hot farm/enhanced classes they are on a path of steady growth. The local level embraces rules that are reasonable in the not only cubic inches but also cost that their members can afford. They have the tendency to know their pullers, fans and promoters the best. Now the national level of pulling. Lets be real here, time to face facts. The sport is in steady decline, I know everyone hates to hear that. I realize that the "I love it just like it is" crowd will have their say. However it's time to takeoff our rose colored glasses and stop pretending. The numbers in most of the national classes have been declining for the last 10 years and there does not appear any reversal of that trend. There are 4 or 5 classes that are really struggling. The PS class is now become nothing more than a dyno class. I know that dyno's have been in use for several years, however it just seems that more time and more money are being spent in recent years on the elusive search for the last HP. This drives the puller to have buy the next “latest and greatest next version turbo”. The price tag on the latest and greatest has far gone past of the new kitchen or a new car. Where does this end, well we all really know the answer to that question. It ends with only a handful of pullers that have the budget to support the class. And I'm not calling out just the Pro Stock pullers, pick the DSS, Open/Unlimited SS, Semi's. They all are struggling for numbers. The next generation of pullers will go to the Diesel Trucks, LSS, Lt. Unlimited Mods. TWD, classes that have a lower maintenance budget. Can anyone honestly tell me that the quality of the show is any better with more HP? Is the show better because the DSS are now making 4000 HP verses when they where making 2500 HP. Are there more fans because the PS is now at 3500 HP? With today's sleds they all can make any HP class look either really good or really bad. So the real question is does a NTPA Unlimited Mod put on a better show than a PPL four engine Mod, is the Open/Unlimited SS a better show than the LSS, does the fan see a better show with the PS than the 4.1 or Light PS class. It's always about the show! Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: What is the Next Level ?
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Registered: 06/30/2008 Posts: 186 |
This is just a thought from an avid fan as I have no skin in the game other than my 3 children love pulling because of my love and enthusiasm I have shown...oh...and the time they get to spend in big events like Henry where they get to meet the drivers, get their photo cards signed, and are asked if they want pictures taken on the pulling vehicle too...you know, that personal touch they never forget and talk about all year long until "the next time".....
That being said, let's think outside the box... There are large automotive events all across the US with NASCAR, NHRA, etc as has been previously mentioned. If one of the 3 pulling sanctioning bodies would "link arms" with the "other" motorsport organization to say "during the same weekend, can we build a track relatively close to your event where we can host an event to show what we have?" Yes, in all reality, the pulling sanctioning body very well may have to pay the venue to pull there; however, with the majority of the audience is already there for the weekend, I can't help but believe the exposure to the already present fan base would have to make a positive impact on the non-traditional pulling fan. "Mr. NASCAR / Mr. NHRA, we don't want to steal what you have; rather, with a collaborative effort, continue to grow automotive sports in general." Yes, there would have to be a lot of brain storming and money to have to go into it but there is a possibility. It MAY make the non-pulling fan more interested in pulling and the traditional pulling fan more interested in the other forms of auto sports. For example, imagine the thought of an NHRA fan comparing a 4-6 engine mod or single engine mini to a top fuel dragster when speed (ground and tire) and engine noise are 2 of the most obvious characteristics? And you can't tell me a NASCAR or NHRA fan would not be interested to see where all this black smoke comes from. No matter what, all of us who enjoy motorsports secretly go for the noise, the power, the smell of the exhaust, the stream of black smoke, the rumble in your seat, and to support our favorite driver. It is no longer about which manufacturer has the best equipment. The NASCAR and NHRA fans are truly not that much different than us pulling fans. Many of us simply have roots that are more "country" than others. Again, please keep in mind, this is a "think outside the box" response. Fire away at the comments. Thank you for this thread. |
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Re: What is the Next Level ?
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Chad H.
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people go to tractor pulls, people are fans of nascar. big differeance. no large racing organizations is going to waste time on pulling. |
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Re: What is the Next Level ?
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lewis
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A good box office hit movie featuring some high rated stars pulling tractors with lots of cheating explosions and some kind of suspenseful plot get Gene Rodenberry on board something like fast and furious or Talladega Nights Put Will Ferrell on one of Chezics tractors every other motor sports has been featured in movies why not tractors and trucks it wont happen but what if |
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Re: What is the Next Level ?
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 343 |
In response to this, I started the thread that Bill Vories responded to, and I appreciate his response and Miles for going back and touching on it.
Now to explain my stance of taking the sport to the next level. Maybe not to the next level for say but back to a point in time and then improve on that. As a fan do not take me wrong. The competitors that are in the sport now are pushing forward in ways that 10 years ago, I never thought I would see. Fifteen to Twenty-Five years ago we had Red-Man and Skoal as sponsors and ESPN’s support for TV coverage. The TV coverage drew in more and more sponsors. (All Pro, Wrangler, Budweiser, Red Man, and Skoal) And now through Forrest Lucas with PPL is starting to bring it back. NTPA has kept a mainstay with Case IH. And strive to draw in more. With what is going on now things are on a positive growth to maybe get the sport back to that NEXT LEVEL. On my idea of the next level, ideally I would like to be involved in helping the pullers, promoters, and organizations to grow in a way that everybody can afford to keep doing what they love. I have interviewed pullers that said they did ok back in the mid 80’s with cost to compete compared to prize money. Prize money now days is somewhat the same maybe a little higher, but cost to compete has somewhat tripled if not more. My original thought is to strive to put more buts in the seats by making the Pullers Rock Stars to the point that there names are well known in the majority of the population across the United States. In turn, this would be a plus for promoters, which would show larger numbers to gain more sponsors, which in the long run would put more money in the Pullers pockets. And something else I have noticed that could help in all of this, not sure it will, but what most pullers call the hay day of pulling. We had Pull It the Chicken and Go Go the Gorilla to interact with the pullers and the crowd. I really think if we brought some of that back and involved the crowd with the show it could put more fans in the seats. Even today fans and pullers like to go back and look at videos where they were interviewed during pulls. I have 1997 video from Louisville that I was interviewed by Scott Douglas and cherish having that, so I think there needs to be more of that done today, would give fans something to look forward to or run from, but they would come to pull to see there friends or foes to get interviewed during the show. And with all this being done with what most everyone in media hopes to achieve, to take pulling to the next level. Which includes taking it over to the Social Media age which is already got a good start. And we all love the sport and strive to do what we think and what we feel will make it easier and better in future. Eric Prewitt The Prewitt Pulling Team Public Relations for The Pulling Radio Network |
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Random Thoughts
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
I do not believe it's realistic to expect to make the drivers into Rock Stars, While I really respect the drivers/owners as good business men and women, great farmers, I believe that the vehicles that they drive are really an extension of their personality's. The vehicles will always be the star of the show. There is just not enough face time to make the drivers into stars. When you think about the vehicle is only on the track for less than a minute and most drivers do not get any opportunity to be in front of the fans.
And if you want to grow pulling it starts at the state/regional level. If the fan see a state show that starts on time, is fast paced, gets done at a reasonable hour, and has a good variety of classes then they are more inclined to see the "next level" of pulling. I don't understand why the national organizations are not more involved with the product that their state level clubs are putting on. The process of change has to start at the top. And to me this is really the biggest problem with the sport today, no vision. One organization has leadership that is to old and disconnected and the other has leadership that is to afraid to make changes. I can think of a couple events that are always striving to improve their shows; Bowling Green and Hillsboro. I am sure that there are more out there, however everyone I talk to always says that those two always try and give the paying public the best show that they can produce. Take the product that we now have, show, vehicles, schedules, and just make it better. Don't try and make it something it can not will not be. The days of big sponsors are gone, road shows with 50,000 fans are gone, fix what we have now. I think one thing that we need to bare in mind is that people that listen to conservative talk radio are already conservatives, the people that use tractor pulling social media are already tractor pulling fans. That's our fan base, just give them a better product. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Drivers as Rock Stars
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J. Yantes
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Dick,
I think there is plenty of time to turn drivers into "stars" Think about the time you have in between hooks. There is plenty of time to interview a driver. The issue would be having 2 announcers. One in the box and one on the track to interview drivers. Billy Biers was one of the best at creating a personality. I also believe this is something that could be implemented into the TV Shows. I will still go back and say that competing organizations are bad. It's not the successful business model of any professional sport in the United States, and if it were so successful and the way to do things, why are we having this conversation about next level etc? Right now I see a sport in disarray. In the 80's and most of the 90's you had NTPA. ATPA was later in the 90's. TNT...eh... The point is, there were unified rules across the country because there was one game in town. If you look back to the glory days of pulling and money was good, look at the number of national sanctioning bodies and you have answered your own question. At the very least for the betterment of the sport as a whole the 3 need to come together and unify the rules. We've seen a regression back to 1968. Guys get mad at the rules so they split and create their own sand box to play in. With so many sanctioning bodies competing for the same promoters, etc, the sport is diluted, or at least it is here in Ohio. |
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Re: Random Thoughts
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A Puller
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The thought of change at the top in the present day organizations is a must. One organization has a gentlemen at the head that the times have passed them by and has no vision. Yes while he may have help save it, he did not progress it. The following organization came on the seen by the use of promototing it's own product and not the improvement of the sport. Some what at least one organizations is working to control it's product for the pullers and that is Outlaw.
One main problem is way too many classes. It is like every puller needs a trophy, so lets start a new class with our rules, lets start a new organization so we can use our rules. Everyone has said the 80's and 90's were when it was best. Who was the lone gun at the time ? NTPA was. So what happened ? When the other organizations came on the seen it was said competition by organizations would improve things, that has not happened. It has just spread pullers thinner and cost more money. Not so sure that it is a next level issue, but from a pullers view it is at least a break even issue from year to year and the ability to have a opportunity to run a fair points race for the year. That way they can try and commit to being at all the pulls and providing the promoter as well as the crowd a quality show. Will give a couple of examples from the present schedule listed by NTPA. It shows the Light Pro Stock class having about 35 to 40 hooks on Region 2. It then shows the TWD class with about 30 hooks on Region 2. So how is that going to give the fan a chance to watch the best? The promoter to have a good number of tractors for a quality show ? Then give the puller a fair shot at a points run ? It does none of those things. It was shown at Louisville that the LSS class has quality tractors but are divided up in 3 different organizations. I bet if you had one organization and you had the LSS that would be a worth while show to watch. You get to see alot of the best and it is a competitive class. Same could be said of the Modified class. No organization should book a class more that maybe 15 to 16 times at best for many, many reasons. Safety of equipment. safety of travel time of pullers, safety of travel time for the organizations and its workers. Time for the puller to perform maintenance on the vehicle, so it is ready and at its best for the next pull. It like the ole saying ( Sometimes LESS is MORE ). |
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Interesting read
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 387 |
Apparently things aren't so great on the NHRA front. Whit Bazemore makes some interesting points. Some that could possibly apply to pulling.
Whit Bazemore article Dan Mayer www.pulling-reference.com Dedicated to Preserving the History of Tractor & Truck Pulling |
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Re: Interesting read
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Dan,
Thanks for the NHRA article, it ties in well with an Opinion article I'm putting the finishing touches on. In Mile's article he asked “has the sport reached its pinnacle?” I honestly and sincerely believe the answer to this question is yes. I still love the sport, but it's dying. Slowly and surely it's slipping further and further into the irrelavant, the obscure. I applaud people's efforts to “Grow Pulling”, but just as in the NHRA article Dan shared, I don't think it can grow unless it changes, and I'm not sure pulling can make the necessary changes. To me the "Next Level" is to make the actual entertainment value of the product better and to slow the decline of the fan base. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Interesting read
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Registered: 10/01/2009 Posts: 33 |
I've been following this topic and also the NASCAR conversation. I am a relatively small town, high school Technology Teacher and also the school district Athletic Director. I find these concerns that we are having as a pulling community are much the same as some of the athletic concerns that are facing not only our school district but many schools across the country. How do we get people involved? How do we get fans to the pulls? How do we get kids to participate in sports? How do we get fans to come and watch those kids. Our society has allowed technology to define much of how we operate and created such of flow of information that the human attention span has dwindled to the point where I think most forms of "entertainment" don't keep the attention of the audience. I don't have the answers but I do know that it is a huge challenge. In speaking to parents of younger, grade school age children, I sort of feel like maybe we are at the low point and things will start to improve again. I think a lot of younger parents have seen the way technology has impacted our current young adult generation who grew up with the Technology explosion so they are pushing children to be active away from their phones and computers again.
The electronic information we are submersed in is here to stay and will only get deeper. We have to find ways to use technology to captivate fans and get them excited for the real live performances whether it be school sports or a tractor pull. |
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Re: Interesting read
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 762 |
Rebel Red,
I think you are hitting on the fact that our society has changed a lot over the last 30 plus years. 30 years ago the best athletes in school played 3 sports (and sometimes a 4th in the summer). Now, you have 'optional activities' year round in all sports, this zaps all of the athletes time and for those to young to drive, their parents too, getting them to everything. It seems to me that less adults are willing to burn the candle at both ends and less families have a stay at home parent. Both make evening time more valuable, forcing choices about hobbies, both participating and spectating. At the same time entertainment options have exploded, especially those that can be enjoyed from home. 30 years ago cable / satellite TV was in it's infancy and the internet didn't exist, now almost everyone has both. Paying for those is an expense that has to be cut from somewhere, so staying home gives each family member the option to do what they want, and doesn't cost extra money. |
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Re: Interesting read
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579 |
Whits article is very good but limited to national racing as a perspective. I would venture to guess that disenfranchised group of drag fans and racers have flocked to no prep/radial/nostalgia competition. Bryan Lively -
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Re: Interesting read
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Bryan,
I honestly don't believe that the fans have just gone to other forms of drag racing. If however we wanted to take the most optimistic view and assume some fan have gone to other forms of Drag Racing it's still an extremely concerning shift. If a sport can't be healthy at it's highest level that it's not very likely to be healthy at any level. If fans can't get seriously excited for Fuel Cars then they probably won't be really interested in seeing Mom's grocery getter run it's dial-in. Personally I think Whit Bazemore's article was excellent and almost all of it is applicable to our motorsport as well. Most if Whit's article focuses on making the driver actually drive. When Whit says to make the cars harder to drive it echos my idea to lighten the weight of the classes and make the tractors harder to drive and bring the emphasis back to the setups and driving rather than horsepower. A decrease in weight makes driving paramount. Loose in drag racing=light in tractor pulling. Both of those equate to more excitement for the fans. Whit also talks about backing the speed/horsepower down. In pulling that's accomplished by lowering cubic inches, restrictor plates, turbo restrictions, pump restrictions, etc... (personally I'd say lowering cubes would accomplish that goal as well some other goals) . Whit also believes Funny cars should look more like cars to keep them relatable for fan. I've been pounding the drum of relatability for a while now and our cross breeding hoods and blocks have lost much of our sports relatability. Whit wants to go back to the ¼ mile, the track length that people used for years and years. Fans of pulling have no idea how long the track is now... 310, 300, 320, floating, or best yet, we'll set the full pull partway through the class. Remember when it was simple and anything past 300 was a Fullpull? Whit also talked about rivalry, our sport had that once and it was much better then. NHRA is much healthier than pulling and people are seeing that there are problems they need to address. I think we've got some serious problems we need to address, but do other see those problems? If we don't realize there are problems we'll never try to fix them. To me Whit's article is more of a "must read" for leaders of our sport. Whit end his article by saying: "“Short-term pain for long-term gain,” or something like that. It won’t be easy, but tough decisions seldom are. The long-term health of the sport is at risk. Let’s fix it." I think Whit sums it up very well. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Interesting read
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579 |
big tire no prep race @ Tulsa
If you look at the main grandstands at this event Jake I think you'll see what I'm talking about, where the fans are. Watch the action and you will see why the fans are there. ESPN did the NHRA zero favors in the last year's of their tv contract. Viewership is up on Fox. Numbers are not what they have been but they are better. Whit has a streak of brutal honesty that I really respect, but again his blinders to anything not "national" does not present the entire picture of a sport. I have some thoughts to offer when I get back in front of a computer, this typing on a phone is not meant for fat fingers. The "issues" found in motorsports are spread across all forms of entertainment and I'll provide the numbers to back that statement up and to explain my bent further. Stay tuned. Bryan Lively -
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Re: Interesting read
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Registered: 07/14/2011 Posts: 59 |
Hi, Just a few random thoughts: inspired by questions asked of me over the years, by people not totally familiar with pulling; Back in the day, there were different weight classes within the same category (5500 SS, 7500 SS, 9500 SS). Some brands were more competitive in the lighter classes, others in the heavier classes. Why did pulling go away from this? "How come the Super Farms can pull the sled as far as the Unlimited Mods?" Well obviously, pullers all know it's because the sled settings are different. But does the average/casual motorsports fan know this? Why not set the sled so that the higher you go in horsepower-the farther down the track you go? Set a standardized distance for a full pull. "How come three Mini-rods went past 300 ft and there was a pulloff, but six Super Stocks went past 300 ft and there wasn't a pulloff?" Make sure the sled is placed at the same "zero" point. "How come that guy went farther down the track than the rest, but finished 3rd?" Parade the pullers past the crowd (mentioned above, as in Europe). At most pulls, the crowd sees the vehicle pull onto the track - make a pass - and then drive off. That's all they get to see of the vehicle, and never get to see the driver. Other discussion points that I've heard from people; Eliminate aftermarket parts and only allow OEM, to help cut costs... Phase out the old stuff with a "25 year" rule... Get with the times, and allow electronic injection/engine controls because that's what new tractors use... Reduce the cubic inch limits, reduce tire size, eliminate "puller" tires and use regular mass produced tires (cutting allowed)... There are more good questions than there are good answers, but it's good to keep the conversation going to achieve strength in this sport. On a more personal note, I cringe every time I hear "it's all about the fans"... I think we all need to realize that the pullers and the fans are two different things - that need EQUAL attention. If you put one above the other, you run into trouble. The sanctioning bodies should focus on the pullers/pulling rules, the promotors need to focus on the fans/show. Here's a couple of extreme examples to show what I mean; If the fans were to let it be known that they only want to see red tractors, should the sanctioning bodies make a "only red" rule? Of course not. And the flip side; if the rule makers want all the tractors to be bone stock and pull with a 4 mph limit, would the fans show up? I'm gonna say no... Thus, you get a most difficult balancing act; rules that keep the pullers satisfied yet offer the promoters something to make a show that people will pay to see. Later ....... |
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Re: Interesting read
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lewis
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The local farm tractor pulls that took place at just about all of the county fairs back in the 80s was a big help with the crouds and helped spark a lot of interest in a bunch of us that are pulling today .Hear at home we would always have 30 or 40 locals with classes from 4500 lbs up to 12000lbs and then the hot rods we called it NTPA that night Some one said nobody wanted to se the slow tractors I would have to say they are dead wrong neighbors against neighbors brought out a lot of people befor the big show and there was excitement in the air the fans would stand a chear when a tractor crossed the 300ft mark now the only time that happens is when one explodes or catches on fire And as I said be for like it or not tractor pulling is a rural area sprort and theres not many rural areas left just like sled dog racing is for Alaska |
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Re: What is the Next Level ?
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Registered: 05/01/2011 Posts: 22 |
Hi Miles,
Thanks for the article which got me to thinking about a post I posted several years ago that relates to this topic. It was a pretty long post, which I have copied and pasted below because I didn't want to rewrite the whole thing. When I read through it again, I still realize it will never happen, but if somehow it did I think it would really bring a renewed level of excitement to the sport. I will be honest, I am surprised we still have 2 major organization. I didn't think the sport could support 2 major organizations and one way or another we'd only have 1 left. Given that fact they are both still here, now I don't believe we will get back to just one national organization. So, if NTPA & PPL both care about advancing and making the sport better the easiest way to do that would be for them to start working together on some level. Again, I know this is highly unlikely, but I can dream. I want to thank the pullers, yourself, the Morgan's, and everyone else that invest so much of their time, energy, money, and passion into the sport I love. Thank you all. "Posted July 19, 2012. Thanks Dick for bringing up this topic and giving everyone the chance to voice their opinion. This is something I have been concerned about for the past few years. I would consider myself an avid fan. I’d like to give a little background about my love of the sport. Some of my earliest memories are going to the county fair tractor pull with my Dad. I went to my first national tractor pull in Macon, MO in 1991 at the age of 18. From that point forward, I started following what would be considered the national circuit. For the past 21 years I have scheduled my vacation around tractor pulls. I am not a farmer. I have a job that makes it difficult to get away. I have managed to go to Tomah, WI, Bowling Green, OH, Ft. Wayne, IN, Henry, IL, Freeport, IL, Evansville, IN, Fairfield, IL, Troy, MO, Hillsboro, WI, Macon, MO, Wheatland, MO, Bethany, MO, Ravenna, NE, Hutchinson, KS, Houston, TX, Sigourney, IA, Owensboro, KY, Goshen, IN, Davenport, IA, Waterloo, IL, Miami, OK, and many other small pulls in the Missouri & Kansas area. I also started going to Louisville in 1995 with two season tickets. Since 2002 I have had 8 tickets. You can see that I’ve invested a lot of time and money in following the sport. I’m not independently wealth, so tractor pulling has become the priority on how I spend my free time. For several years, I always tried to go to a new pull each year. There is no doubt that since there have been 2 national organizations (NTPA & ATPA/PPL) that the quality of a national level show has gone down due to the diluting of the number of competitors in the tractor classes. It has especially gotten worse in recent years. National level events having less than 10 tractors in a class is frustrating. If you look at last weekend’s results for PPL & NTPA, the SSO, Mod and LSS classes were split about 50/50 between organizations. This will be typical for the rest of the season with the exception of Bowling Green. It’s just frustrating when you know you aren’t seeing the kind of product that the sport is capable of producing. It’s like you’re only seeing half of the show. Even in classes such as TWD and 4WD that have enough numbers to support both organizations, I still know that at any given event I haven’t seen all of the competitive trucks in those classes. If you compare this to NHRA and NASCAR, you never feel that you’ve only seen half a show. All of the top competitors are there. That is what puts those organizations at a higher level. You know you are going to see the best at every event. My solution, that I know will never happen, is for the NTPA and the PPL to work together. One idea would be to have 4 Super Pulls that are co-sanctioned by both organizations. NTPA gets 2 and PPL gets 2. One would assume that NTPA would want Tomah and Bowling Green for their two. A good one for PPL would be Wheatland and not sure about the other one (Hillsboro or Henry). Make the points at these pulls count for the year end points championship, no matter which organization you are committed to. Also make the points worth 1.5 instead of 1 to encourage all pullers to attend. These pulls would need to offer a much larger purse to the pullers as well. If they would commit to these 4 Super Pulls for 4 years I think the avid fan base is there to make them successful right off the bat. After the first 4 years, I think these pulls would be successful enough that other facilities would start upgrading to attract a Super Pull of their own. 10 years from now I could see as many as 10 Super Pulls across the country that would showcase pulling at its highest level. Both NTPA and PPL have strengths and weaknesses. I don’t want to start a debate on which one is better, but I strongly feel that they need to work together to advance the sport to the next level. This may not necessarily mean that it will make them more money to start with. It seems that money may be the main priority in these organizations and they maybe aren’t very motivated at advancing the sport. NTPA may think that they are getting enough ticket sales at Bowling Green & Tomah that they don’t need PPL’s competitors, sponsors, and their associations with other major motorsports. The fact is that they aren’t bringing the best show to those pulls without the PPL’s competitors. PPL benefits with NTPA’s competitors, sponsors, and the classes that NTPA offers that the PPL does not. It is hard to attract new fans when you aren’t putting your best product on the track. I used to take friends and family on the trips I would take to the big pulls. Now I’m reluctant to take someone with me because they start to question why I travel so much to see so little. This sport needs the “wow” factor so that it makes enough of an impression for someone to come back next year or even start to follow the circuit. I feel that Tomah and Bowling Green events are set up for die hard fans only. Since they require a person to attend multiple sessions, with one or two premier class sprinkled throughout lower performance classes, it is a huge time commitment for a fan to see all of the premier classes. I don’t want to offend anyone here, but Super Farm tractors do not belong on the national level. They have their place in the sport at local, state, and regional levels. They are the equivalent to me to going to the little local circle track or grudge racing night at the drag strip. You don’t see the equivalent of a Super Farm tractor at an NHRA event. Taking another cue from NHRA, 3 days is the maximum number of days for an event. You don’t see 4-5 day events in NHRA like Bowling Green or Tomah. I have been to those pulls a few times and I’ve never been able to attend a Sunday session because I’ve had to come home to work on Monday. My point is, at these Super Pulls you need to put your premier classes in every session so you can provide an excellent show to the fans. The classes that I feel would make an excellent show are 10 classes total. UNL, Mods, LT UNL, SSO, SSD, LSS, PS, 4x4, 2WD, & MR. If you would look at the number of competitors in each of these classes that are following both national organizations and would get ¾ of them to show up to these 4 Super Pulls, you’d have a hell of a show. A show like we haven’t seen in years. Also, it would be critical at the 4 Super Pulls to have the track in excellent shape, the sled set correctly, and the pullers ready to pull when it is their time. The event would have to run smoothly. I think it’s disappointing to go to a pull and see a track that makes it difficult for the pullers to get a hold of or a sled setting that stops the majority of the tractors at around 270-280 feet or a show that is run incredibly slow with way too much time between hooks. The action on the track needs to keep the interest of the fans. I think that the sport needs a minimum of 4 or more events like I’ve described throughout the summer to showcase the best it has for it to grow. The fans deserve a pull like this. I would be happy with just 1 of these pulls, but just one big event each summer wouldn’t gain you the momentum to increase interest, add fans, or advance the sport. Tractor pulling needs more sponsors and fans. How do you do this with the current tractor pulling structure? My idea to solve this problem is to put a higher level of show together. With the number of very high quality pulling vehicles that are competing nationally, if the majority of them would compete at the 4 Super Pulls they would bring the sport to a higher level. I feel this caliber of show would attract more fans. And it can’t be one and done. It has to be something that fans really want to attend and plan their vacations around it. It has to have that anticipation and build up like other sporting events. That’s how you get more fans. With more fans, the sponsors will follow, which leads to bigger payouts for the pullers." Agree with my ideas or not, I think something has to change or our sport will continue deteriorate which might lead to the extinction of one or both of the national organizations. Sorry for such a long post, but you can tell I’m passionate about this sport. Thanks." |
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Re: What is the Next Level ?
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Registered: 09/24/2008 Posts: 176 |
Excellent , well thought out . Now if can only get people to see the bigger picture and grow together for the good of our beloved sport! Thses same problems exist on the local level too . Way to many classes , everybody cries wolf. |
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Re: What is the Next Level ?
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johnny come lately to thread
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The "next level" can mean a certain thing to each individual, yet when combined of all those opinions, have quite the list of what "next level" may mean.
The number one external problem of moving tractor and truck pulling to the 'next level' is it is an agricultural based sport. The percentage of farmers in the overall population continues to decline and the average age of a farmer is getting older while literally all other professions percentage increases. With that said, how do you propose to really attract a bigger fan base? Let alone nationally in a continuing and growing city based society where there real interest in sports is not tied agriculturally. Many have no idea how their food is really produced. Aren't those grocery stores amazing! Somehow they instantly produce all that food right there for the consumer. So to have the tractor and truck pulling stars names as a common name on the tip of most American's is only a real pipe dream. The young people today, am I correct in saying 'melennials', go a different route of what brings them a sports pleasure. The few that come to pulling usually have only one interest, diesel pickups. That is not necessarily bad. If that brings more young folks and spectators to pulling, that is a 'next level'. 'Next level' can be defined as moving up to the next class level. Currently, look at all the pullers with a so-called Farm Stock that are sick and tired of all the minor rule changes from one location to another and all the infighting and ego control tactics that produces. That certainly is not helping to propel the sport of pulling forward. However, many of those pullers are willing and wanting to move up to the next class level offered in their geographic location - Altered Farm, Hot Farm, 466 class, LLSS, ProFarm are examples. That certainly is a 'next level' of pulling in the eyes of many participants. I just do not understand why many think the next level is relegated to the national sanctioning bodies and involving sponsorship. Certainly each is very important but I I believe they are only a segment of what 'next level' really is and can offer. Miles, I do not understand why you questioned your own professionalism may be hurting the sport. Perhaps you are rather professional on the microphone but I have seen you be a high nose in the air butting on an ongoing media conversation with a puller. We all need to respect the role of each of us involved in what ever positive way of promoting the pulling sport. If it means you need to wait your turn to talk with that puller in the pits, you wait your turn or go to another puller and then come back. I can be guilty of this offense, too, but I do try to remain conscience of the fact. Let's expand this role of announcing further. I truly believe that finding a really good announcer that knows pulling rules, the pullers, a bit about their profession and a few important statistics of how they are doing, let alone if they are a defending champion, should be related but how many announcers really take this to heart and demonstrate in their announcing. Over the coarse of pulling during the inception of NTPA pulling in 1970, I believe this is the number two external problem of promoting the pulling sport to the 'next level'. After all, why should the announcer not know his or her stuff and deliver it with professionalism. You would not settle for anything less from your favorite 'other' sport be it car racing, golf, football, basketball, monster truck, etc., etc. After all, you likely have no idea who may be sitting in the audience, perhaps a first timer who had heard good things about pulling and came with the idea of a possible sponsorship. Now that is talking a 'next level' regardless of whether it is a local pull or anything up to the biggest national pull with a national sanctioning or any level of pulling in between. Any level of pulling needs the professionalism from the announcer, but also from the photographers, the news media there covering the event for a newspaper, TV, magazine, web, etc. And certainly every puller needs to be professional in his or her mannerism, too. And I am going to include the spectators in this statement, too. I have been very fortunate to be around the pulling sport for half a century, travelled to a lot of states and two Canadian provinces. And yet there is one event that stands out to be different, every year and unfortunately in a very disrespectful way. If you have not guessed it, it is BG. Why is it those pulling spectators feel they need to be like that? I beieve it is a total disgrace not only unto themself but also disrespecting all the hard work the blue shirts do to make their event successful and certainly a disgrace of not showing respect to a puller who certainly has invested multiple thousands of dollars in his/her pulling vehicle and yet something unfortuante happens during the run. For the spectotors to think that is great and applaud such, they need a reality check. That deplorable attitude certainly can hurt the 'next level' as a sponsor may be there assessing if this is a proper environment to be spending advertising dollars. Stan Williams, I totally agree with your posting. Which brings up another point. There a how many hundred associations that are a local sanctioning body across the U.S and Canada. For a lot of pullers, that is a 'next level'. And most of those associations do put on a really good show with quality looking and running pull vehicles. That is what pulling is about. J. Yantes, I understand your point. However, the main line sanctioning bodies (NTPA, PPL, maybe some others) affordability to the pullers to build and compete, as you certainly know, is rather staggering anymore. Even on the Region and State level. If some of those national pullers did not support events at those two levels, unfortuantely too often there would not be much of a show. I think that would be bad legislation to limit a puller to only competing on a certain level. I am pretty much writing this post as I read each contributor's response. With what I just said to Mr. Yantes, it sounds like I pretty well agree with Mr. B. Lively, both first posts.Yes, Dick, "It is always about the show" - at any level of event, by any sanctioning body, by any promoter. Bottom line is, everyone of us, regardless what our role is at a pulling event is in the pulling promotion business. After all, all of us like to invite our family member(s) and friend(s) to join us at the next tractor and truck pulling event. Ahh, more spectators is a 'next level'. |
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