NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 August 31, 2017 02:00PM
AGENDA ITEMS SUBMITTED
2017 NTPA DIVISIONAL MEETING
9/15 & 9/17/17
Submitted by SSD 4x4 Class Committee
Establish 2-3 GN Certified Vehicles (The Heavy Ones) for weight.Explanation of how it would work: Have the certified vehicle that is first in the pull order for the event cross the scales first and the rest of the class will weigh the same.
Reasons for this:
1. This class has several trucks with steel bodies and struggle to make weight.
2. When a big amount of weight has to be removed, this takes an excessive amount of time at the scales. If we changed this, we could speed up the process.
3. 4x4 trucks, unlike tractors, have shocks and springs that are not easily adjustable. They are set up at a predetermined vehicle weight. When excessive amounts of weight are removed from the weight box it disrupts the set up and the trucks bounce.
For example:
1. This year at Tomah, all trucks removed approximately 200#. Half the class, 8/16, bounced and didn’t make it down the track. Result: Poor show. None of us want this to happen.
2. There have been 3 occasions this year where the scales were off as much as 200+ lbs. It is totally immaterial what the number on the scale registers, only that we weigh the same.
4. It should be a contractual requirement of WPI/NTPA in order to host an NTPA event, they must have a level concrete slab or level hard surface for the scales.
At Mt. Sterling (scales on the grass), Rock Hard Ram was 12th hook, 13th across the scales and had to remove over 200#. The tech official at the scales said to Van “every truck across here tonight keeps getting heavier and heavier” ! Van replied “well hasn’t it occurred to you that there is something wrong with the scales since most of us just came from the same place?” The guy just shrugged, we proceeded to take the weight out and continue on our way.
Matt Clemons “Alter Ego” was 15th across the scales, so when he got around to the staging area I asked him how much he had to take out, he said 30#. Go figure! This is crazy! Neither Matt nor Van had touched their trucks since Fort Recovery.

Submitted by Modified Committee
In view of advancements in cylinder head design, ignition systems and 871 and 1471 super chargers, during the past 12 years since horsepower limits were established for the region national turbine powered tractors in 2005, this is a request to raise the limit from 5050 to 5350 or 5400 to allow the turbine powered tractors to be more in line with the power levels that are now available to the pistons engines.

Submitted by Modified Committee
Ÿ Can the entry clerk automatically put another competitor between teammate’s entries if they draw back to back? The reasoning for this rule is give teams more time to prepare their second ride. Especially if they are limited on help.
Ÿ The Regional Modified pullers would like to request a change to the rulebook. These changes would affect page 44 of the 2017 rulebook.
We would like to change Rule E-1
Ÿ From: Three (3) blown automotive engines with 8-71 superchargers at the overdrive limits listed below or single staged turbocharger. No intercooler allowed, with port-fuel injection only.
Ÿ To: Three (3) blown wedge automotive engines that accept stock OEM intake bolt pattern with 8-71 superchargers at the overdrive limits listed below or single staged turbo charger. No intercooler allowed, with port-fuel injection only.
If this passes then there is no need to have E.1.b or W.1.c. These could be eliminated.
Ÿ The Modified Committee would like to clarify a rule in the RN/State 7500 Mod rules. After rule 13 there are three notes about the class. First off why are these stated as notes instead of as rules, are they just recommendations or are they actual rules?
The concern is that there are several two engine tractors now and if they have engine issues and get into a pulloff will they be allowed to bump the sled with one engine running? Another part of this issue is that a three engine tractor with one engine broken can legally come to the next event and bump the sled for points and a check but the way this note reads a twin engine tractor cannot.
We would like to see this note added to the end of it another sentence that reads, A two engine tractor will have the option to make an attempt with one engine running in the event of breakage.

Submitted by Modified Competitor
It is requested that the Horsepower Rating for General Electric T58 turbine engines, in the NTPA Rulebook, be revised to reflect the specific horsepower ratings for the various models of this engine, as has been the NTPA’s practice with other turbine engines in the rulebook. Currently the NTPA Rulebook lists the General Electric T58 engine as producing 1500 horsepower without specifying an engine model in the listing. While the rating of 1500 horsepower is correct for engine models -100 and -402, there are other General Electric T58 engines currently in use in tractor pulling vehicles with different take off horsepower ratings than those for the above model engines. It is requested that the Horsepower Ratings for General Electric T58 Turbine engines be revised to the following table.
T58-3....... 1325
T58-8F.... 1350
T58-10..... 1400
T58-100.. 1500
T58-402.. 1500
These ratings can be verified by contacting Tim Arfons if necessary. I can provide his phone number if needed. Also, please contact me if I can provide any additional information to enable this update to the NTPA Rulebook.
Respectfully submitted.

Submitted by Light Pro Stock Committee
We would like to propose the following two items for the Light Pro Stock class:
1. Light Pro Stock tractors allow component frames using the Pro Stock class rule (Rule 13) excluding item h (aftermarket blocks)
2. Light Pro Stock class weight to remain 8,500 lb.

Submitted by Light Pro Stock Committee
We would like to submit a rule change for the Light Pro Stock class to make it 8700 pounds due to the following reasons:
1. The inconsistency of the scales and the people who run them.
2. The horse power that we have gained over the last seven years.
3. The parts that we have to put in them to keep them running weigh more.
4. The future of tires that they are making for our class weigh 400 pounds heavier.
Thank you for your consideration.

Submitted by WTPA
1. Recommendation from Wisconsin Light Pro Class for rule change for Light Pro class - Exhaust outlet limit of a G Trim exhaust.
2. WTPA would like a discussion on the 330 full pull pull offs and the floating finish rule.

Submitted by Super Stock Diesel Competitor
I would like to propose that if a vehicle breaks during the 1st of a 2 session event that it would receive last place points in 2nd session this would be in lieu of us having to try to patch back together and bump the sled for 2nd session.
I know there probably needs a few more details added to this and would be happy to review and or write it more specific if board agrees that it is a reasonable rule change.

Submitted by Puller/Promoter
I would like to propose to have a pulloff for more fan excitement! I think it should be the promoters choice to pay for a pulloff. Pay a bonus 12% of Purse money to top (3) tractors in pulloff, (330ft). Promoter should have in the contract if they want to participate in pulloff money, and what classes they want to participate in.

Submitted by Pro Stock Diesel Truck Competitor
Proposed rule change: Light Pro Class
Ÿ Allow 8.3 liter cummins as a replacement motor for G1000 Moline or similar model.
Intent to add more diversity and color to the class. The engine is already allowed as a replacement for other brands such as Oliver and White.

Submitted by Four Wheel Drive Competitor
The new computer generated entry system of assigning random numbers has seen an increase of team vehicles ending up with back to back entries in all divisions. My suggestion is when this happens that the vehicle following them next in the order is moved in between them. This will keep the flow of vehicles moving and keep the show going.

Submitted by Super Stock Diesel Competitor
I would like to request a rule change for the Limited Pro Stock class
Ÿ I would like to have a Sigma Pump or an After Marker Pump for V8 motors. It’s nearly impossible to get P 7100s anymore.

Submitted by Unlimited Competitor
I would like to submit a rule to change the weight in the unlimited class to 8250 pounds, because that is the weight we usually weigh, then calibrate the scale by using a couple stamped weights and enforce the rule, otherwise leave the weight of the unlimited class at 8000 pounds and enforce that weight rule.

Submitted by Ohio Truck & Tractor Pullers Assn.
Reinstate floating finish line at discretion of officials with safe run off or barrier control.

Submitted by Super Farm Divisional Committee
The use of all Bio Diesel fuels be eliminated in Super Farm class.

Submitted by Four Wheel Drive Committee
1. Enforce Rule XX Event Procedures and Requirements
Ÿ I-1 Drawbars to be measured 3-5 vehicles prior to hooking.
Ÿ I-2 No air pressure to be altered in tires after drawbar is measured.
Too many events measure the full class (more than 5 vehicles) before the class starts. Too many people are changing tire pressure after they are measured.
2. Add to XX1 Contest Operations.
Ÿ A-1 The sled will be pulled or propelled down the track with the weight box moving up at least three times at the beginning of each event to condition the track or if the pull is stopped for a predetermined amount of time for mechanical problems or natural causes.

Submitted by NTPA Board Member
Ÿ In a situation of 1 driver drives 2 vehicles in the same class & draws back to back hooks, his last vehicle would drop 1 position to have 1 vehicle between his 2 vehicles.
Ÿ At Region & State level pulling a floating finish to be allowed at the discretion of the event manager.
Ÿ At Grand National & Super National level pulling a floating finish to be allowed at the discretion of the event manager.
Ÿ Discuss allowing steel billet blocks in diesel classes, limited pro, pro stock, super stock classes and semi classes.

Submitted by Super Stock Diesel Committee
1. Propose the discussion of the DSS class rule of making the cu inch limit the same for the 2 stage or 3 stage turbo combination thus making all setup equal and not giving advantage of one over the other since the evolvement of advanced technology. (Not proposing any timeframes, cu in limits, just the discussion of)
2. Looking at the rule that reads “Steel billet”, aluminum billet, and steel recast blocks allowed, The specifications for the block will be based on the factory OEM specs of the block chosen to be replaced with an allowance for the 5/8 in deck plate and limited to 540 cu inch” needs to have a clarification.
A. to specify where a factory replacement block that is a steel billet, aluminum billet or a recast block will fit in to these same specifications of the rule listed above.
B. if you do not use the 5/8 inch deck plate, the cubic inch limit can be greater than 540 cubic inch.

Submitted by UPM
Look at the 330 rule, we had a lot of complaints from Promoters, Fans and Competitors, maybe leave at event managers to control and deal with the ones that get too far.

Submitted by Super Semi Committee
Reinstate floating finish for Semi class at, region state and Grand National levels.

Submitted by Light Super Stock Committee
Can we consider changing the cubic inch limit for the diesels to 540 cubic inch for the 2018 season.

Submitted by Hoosier State Tractor Pullers Assn.
HSTPA would like the following variance to the 2017 Pro Farm Rules for Region 2:
Ÿ Letter A Engines #1
510 CID +/- 1 % maximum of 8 cylinders permitted. Two valve farm tractor cylinder heads only. (OEM or stock replacement head for make and model)
Ÿ Letter A Engines #5 Turbo Restriction
3” inlet X 3.5” outlet, no waste gate. Compressor wheel must protrude into the 3” bore. Intake housing to be no larger than 3” at the face of the wheel. No additional openings in compressor housing outside the 3” opening. The exhaust side to be no larger than 3.5” at the face of the wheel and the wheel should protrude the housing 1/8”. MWE groove is allowed with a maximum width of .200. MWE groove must be inside neck area where intake cover is measured at 3”.
Ÿ Letter D Weight
Class to compete at 9500#
If variance is not granted, HSTPA would like to submit the following class rules and call the class Hot Farm.
Hot Farm Tractors
Ÿ All Pro Stock rules, including shielding, safety and SFI requirements, apply to this class.
Ÿ The Hot Farm Class will run under NTPA Super Farm division rules, plus the following rules. This class be only sanctioned at State and Regional level.
1. The class will compete at 9,500#
2. Tires
Maximum tire size 20.8 X 38 (radials allowed) with a maximum of 56 lugs allowed. Tire can be no larger than a maximum of 220-inch circumference when inflated to 20 psi. Tread width to not exceed 21 inches when mounted on a 20 inch wide rim. Aluminum rims allowed.
3. Water Injection
High pressure water injection is allowed in the crossover pipe and ported water is allowed in the intake manifold only, not in the head. Water only permitted.
4. Engines
510 cubic inch limit (+ or – 1 percent). Maximum of 8 cylinders permitted. Two valve farm tractor cylinder heads only. No overhead cam (OEM or stock replacement head for make and model).
5. Turbos
3” inlet X 3½” exhaust outlet, no waste gates. Compressor wheel must protrude into the 3” bore. Intake housing to be no larger than three inches at the face of the wheel. No additional openings in compressor housing outside the 3” opening. The exhaust side to be no larger than 3.5” at the face of the wheel and the wheel should protrude the housing 1/8”. MWE groove is allowed, a maximum width of .200. MWE groove must be inside neck area where intake cover is measured at 3”
6. Manifolds
Intake manifold may be non-OEM with a maximum inlet size 3.75” measured on the outside diameter. One inlet pipe only.
NO Intercooler or Aftercooler. If OEM intercooler manifold is used it must be disconnected from all cooling means. No CO2 or any other means of cooling the air in the piping or manifold. No ice filled or ice cooled devices onboard tractor of any kind. All engine air must enter the inlet of the turbo at ambient air temp and humidity. Inlet air may not be drawn thru or across any type of cooling device.
Exhaust headers allowed
7. The Maximum allowed size pump for diesel injection is a P-Pump. (No aftermarket housing) Only one plunger per cylinder allowed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2017 02:17PM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Scales: What suggestions do pulloff.com readers have? August 31, 2017 02:47PM
Three items copied below by competitors in different classes either directly or indirectly relate to the scales. As a non-competitor with no financial or emotional investment in any one vehicle, it seems to me one logical thing that would help all pullers is if there was more of a strict standard with regard to scales. I don't know if it would be feasible for the organization to purchase at least two sets of scales for use at Grand National events (two, because there are multiple GN events on the same weekend, and some larger Super National events use two scales). The proposals below make sense also. Like the SSD 4x4 committee pointed out, vehicles did not suddenly become 200 lbs heavier overnight.

What are some other suggestions the readers of pulloff.com have to make the scales or weighing-in process better?

Proposals related to scales:

1) Submitted by SSD 4x4 Class Committee
Establish 2-3 GN Certified Vehicles (The Heavy Ones) for weight.Explanation of how it would work: Have the certified vehicle that is first in the pull order for the event cross the scales first and the rest of the class will weigh the same.
Reasons for this:
1. This class has several trucks with steel bodies and struggle to make weight.
2. When a big amount of weight has to be removed, this takes an excessive amount of time at the scales. If we changed this, we could speed up the process.
3. 4x4 trucks, unlike tractors, have shocks and springs that are not easily adjustable. They are set up at a predetermined vehicle weight. When excessive amounts of weight are removed from the weight box it disrupts the set up and the trucks bounce.
For example:
1. This year at Tomah, all trucks removed approximately 200#. Half the class, 8/16, bounced and didn’t make it down the track. Result: Poor show. None of us want this to happen.
2. There have been 3 occasions this year where the scales were off as much as 200+ lbs. It is totally immaterial what the number on the scale registers, only that we weigh the same.
4. It should be a contractual requirement of WPI/NTPA in order to host an NTPA event, they must have a level concrete slab or level hard surface for the scales.
At Mt. Sterling (scales on the grass), Rock Hard Ram was 12th hook, 13th across the scales and had to remove over 200#. The tech official at the scales said to Van “every truck across here tonight keeps getting heavier and heavier” ! Van replied “well hasn’t it occurred to you that there is something wrong with the scales since most of us just came from the same place?” The guy just shrugged, we proceeded to take the weight out and continue on our way.
Matt Clemons “Alter Ego” was 15th across the scales, so when he got around to the staging area I asked him how much he had to take out, he said 30#. Go figure! This is crazy! Neither Matt nor Van had touched their trucks since Fort Recovery.

2) Submitted by Light Pro Stock Committee
We would like to submit a rule change for the Light Pro Stock class to make it 8700 pounds due to the following reasons:
1. The inconsistency of the scales and the people who run them.
2. The horse power that we have gained over the last seven years.
3. The parts that we have to put in them to keep them running weigh more.
4. The future of tires that they are making for our class weigh 400 pounds heavier.
Thank you for your consideration.

Submitted by Unlimited Competitor
I would like to submit a rule to change the weight in the unlimited class to 8250 pounds, because that is the weight we usually weigh, then calibrate the scale by using a couple stamped weights and enforce the rule, otherwise leave the weight of the unlimited class at 8000 pounds and enforce that weight rule.
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Re: Scales: What suggestions do pulloff.com readers have? August 31, 2017 03:07PM
Have all NTPA sleds carry 4 weights that are certified at 2000 lbs. each. Place the weights on the four corners of the scale and calibrate accordingly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2017 03:07PM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Scales: What suggestions do pulloff.com readers have? August 31, 2017 11:36PM
Semantics I know, but it's rare sled weights actually weigh 2000 lbs. Most average in the 1800s.
Also a lot of pullers would be really disappointed if the scales actually weighed correctly. Every set I've ever been around are calibrated to weigh less than they actually do. I saw pullers get on a correct set one time and everyone had a conniption fit.
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Re: Scales: What suggestions do pulloff.com readers have? August 31, 2017 11:44PM
To be clear, what I was getting at is most sled owners probably don't have 4 weights that actually weigh 2000 lbs. At least not enough 4 to send with every sled if they're spread out across more than one ntpa event that night (rare but happens). Depending on how their scale head works when calibrating it may not accept anything other than even number calibrations (i.e. it says put 4000 on and you do, 6000, etc). It's not often you could out say 7,630 lbs in and tell the scales that's 7,630 lbs. Most scale heads just aren't set up that way. I don't disagree that something needs to be done it's just finding a solution is a lot harder than it sounds.
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Re: Scales: What suggestions do pulloff.com readers have? September 02, 2017 05:59AM
The most hilarious part was the grease burner pickup person claiming they were having a hard time getting down to 8000 lbs.
I understand it is hard cutting weight from the recliner in the living room,,,,,,
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Re: Scales: What suggestions do pulloff.com readers have? September 02, 2017 06:32AM
light pro goes component you will kill the class and why its special who wants to see a bunch of tractors make the same exact pass because theyre all perfectly balanced you gotta drive them not ride them the best in the class have best parts and best drivers replacing cast iron with chrome moyl will make them all look the same
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Re: Scales: What suggestions do pulloff.com readers have? September 03, 2017 09:08AM
Quote
Jake Morgan
Have all NTPA sleds carry 4 weights that are certified at 2000 lbs. each. Place the weights on the four corners of the scale and calibrate accordingly.
Jake, that is the best answer.
I've said that for years everytime this topic comes up.
20 years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago.

A level concrete scale pad is essential also.

4x4 trucks have alot of weight on the front when they cross the scales and the sensors on the scales keep sinking on grass areas.

At a minimum, pay a local road / utility contractor bring 4 steel road plates to the fair grounds.

Certified weights / steel plates / or concrete pads mandatory.
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Re: Scales: What suggestions do pulloff.com readers have? August 31, 2017 03:17PM
A consistent base surface is required as well, you would hope a level concrete pad would be situated between the pits and track. Eliminating the variables like that which can skew the accuracy of scales would go a long way to resolve this issue.


Bryan Lively -

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Re: Scales: What suggestions do pulloff.com readers have? September 02, 2017 01:39PM
We have a couple guys in our class 8500 mod turbo that go to the scales first, whatever they weigh that is the weight. So if our representative goes across the scales and he weighs 8650lb then the weight for the evening is 8700. if he goes across and he weighs 8310 than the night is 8400lb. We never add or take off weight every pull we have the same amount of weights on our tractors it is fantastic. The only issue was at first the guy running the scales not being told the situation but I think this is our 4th or 5th year doing this is working great with no complaints.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 01, 2017 01:22PM
I like the proposed rules for the 540cu for diesel LSS.

I think light pros stepping up to a sigma pump is interesting and not a bad idea at all. I don't think the class is ready for component chassis and the 8500# makes it a drivers class still, plus the class has had great turn outs. I think a lot of guys would stay at home or pull elsewhere if this was implemented, the class isn't that old and a lot of teams are just getting there set ups dialed in.

I'm a bit biased due to those being my favorite classes, and i've been slowly building the Rolling Coal LPS and hope to have it out next year.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 02, 2017 02:27AM
540 for LSS is an interesting idea. Take a Ross motor program and see if they could run with the booze burners! Smiling-

I don't know why you would want to change the light pro stocks to components or bigger pumps. Might as well be a full blown pro stock at that point! That class is one of my favorites as is!!!
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 02, 2017 09:50AM
Last I remember, Brian's Young Blood was 540 also.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 04, 2017 07:49AM
Leave the lite pro's alone. The class is already gaining traction for a reason. Don't fix what ain't broke!
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 04, 2017 07:50AM
I would like to see the turbine limit raised also. They haven't been relevant on the national scene in a decade.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 04, 2017 09:52AM
The only thing I would change in the light pro's would be limit the size of the turbine wheel size to a G trim. No component chassis. No sigma's. We already have a component pro stock class.You want component and Sigma's build a big pro stock. Can't understand why some are so eager to open up these classes to more money spending and unlimited horsepower. Soon many will be pulling against themselves. The herd gets pretty thin at the end of the season in a lot of these classes.
All the diesel tractor classes need to be dialed down or a least capped . Yeah big horsepower and new technology is awesome however not if its going to bankrupt the sport. Look at the slow death of the GN diesel superstock class.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 04, 2017 02:33PM
Quote
Red at sundown
The only thing I would change in the light pro's would be limit the size of the turbine wheel size to a G trim. No component chassis. No sigma's. We already have a component pro stock class.You want component and Sigma's build a big pro stock. Can't understand why some are so eager to open up these classes to more money spending and unlimited horsepower. Soon many will be pulling against themselves. The herd gets pretty thin at the end of the season in a lot of these classes.
All the diesel tractor classes need to be dialed down or a least capped . Yeah big horsepower and new technology is awesome however not if its going to bankrupt the sport. Look at the slow death of the GN diesel superstock class.

Your post is SO true! But what would I know since I am a supertiquer?
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 05, 2017 12:05PM
a good 16mm p- pump is 10 to 11 thousand. a cast sigma would be cheaper and more durable for the rpms. I would allow cast sigmas for light pros if I had a vote.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 05, 2017 01:29PM
Limit them to 14 ml.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 05, 2017 02:18PM
What does it matter now, the cows were out of the barn as soon as they went with recast heads....shoulda been oem and you wouldn't have a pump issue.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 05, 2017 01:53PM
Or leave a perfectly good class alone
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 06, 2017 02:54AM
I don't think they need to change a thing in the Light Pro class. I really don't see any of the proposed ideas as improvements (especially increasing the weight, that would make things worse!) It's one of the best classes in the sport, and it's been growing and growing year after year, not many other classes can say that.

As for LSS, allowing diesels 540 cubic inches is fine by me. Anything to get more smokers in the class would be a welcomed addition.

The rule proposed by the Super Stock Diesel competitor makes sense for ALL classes. If a competitor has catastrophic breakage on the first day of a two (or multi) day event they shouldn't have to stick around just to bump the sled to get last place points. (Making them bump the sled is not only a complete waste of their time, it's a complete waste of time for EVERY fan in the stands. The competitors should be encouraged to make repairs as soon as possible. Personally I don't think they should even be required to stay on the grounds in order to get last place points. They should be allowed to get on the road and back to their shop as soon as possible to make sure they can be at the next event.

As far as scales go, I still think the NTPA should require ALL sleds to have four certified 2000 lb. weights with them at each NTPA event. It's an extremely easy solution to the problem since you need both a scale and a sled in order to have an event. They are both guaranteed to be there and their numbers won't ever fluctuate. As for the current weight blocks not weighing 2000 lbs... they either weld weight to the current blocks and then get four of them certified, or they buy 4 new certified weights. Again, it's an extremely simple solution to the problem.

One last comment, hooking the same driver back to back can slow the show down, and that's never a good thing. Allowing the entry clerk to separate the vehicles or just simply allowing the competitor to redraw a different number is good for the puller and the fan. However, the choice to redraw a number should be at the pullers discretion.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 06, 2017 05:35AM
Quote
Jake Morgan
As far as scales go, I still think the NTPA should require ALL sleds to have four certified 2000 lb. weights with them at each NTPA event. It's an extremely easy solution to the problem since you need both a scale and a sled in order to have an event. They are both guaranteed to be there and their numbers won't ever fluctuate. As for the current weight blocks not weighing 2000 lbs... they either weld weight to the current blocks and then get four of them certified, or they buy 4 new certified weights. Again, it's an extremely simple solution to the problem.

If they do that they need to have a plan in place for how they will handle it when the scales weigh 200 lbs or more heavier than they used to. Becaud that is exactly what will happen and we know the drivers are going to have a meltdown over it because there will be some vehicles that won't be able to make weight.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 07, 2017 11:05AM
Certified 2000lb weights are a good idea also scale should be setting on a concrete pad large enough to support on and off ramps on the sled
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 07, 2017 11:16AM
Well there ya go when you get old support the scale not sled I have personally seen a 400lb variance on weight on back to back pulls in dif states with dif scales In the old days of 5500 and 7500 it made for some wild rides
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 07, 2017 12:53PM
I completely agree with the concrete pad. If an event wants to host an NTPA event there should be a certain standard that needs to be met by the promoter, and a concrete pad should be mandatory.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 12, 2017 02:26PM
Aren't Bauer sleds 1,000 lbs. So they would have to redesign the sled box to get 200lb on 4 weights. Dumb idea.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 12, 2017 03:49PM
Bauer's weights on the big sleds have been 2000 lbs. for years.
Used to be the one for between the rails was a little lighter, but not much.
Guess I never ask what the mini sled weights weigh.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 06, 2017 01:42PM
I agree with you 100% when you jump to a 5 inch exhaust wheel that will mean a 4.6-4.7 intake wheel and it will spin it.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 10, 2017 07:52AM
Don't understand why so few want to put limits on these classes. Not all checkbooks are unlimited.
Look at the numbers at the last few OSTPA pro stock hooks. Where are the tractors? Region 2 pro stocks hooks , where are they? Soon it will be the same for the light pros if some limits aren't in place!
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 11, 2017 09:35AM
It will cost more to continue to be competitive with limits in place. Perfect example is super farm. Teams spending thousands to find 50-60 horsepower. In my opinion, leave the light pro's alone. Matt
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 13, 2017 06:32AM
Why not just completely adopt the DSS engine rules in the LSS class. Didn't ATPA used to have Alcohol - 505 and Diesel - Unlimited , or something similar in the LSS?
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 13, 2017 08:02AM
I second that!!! Really hope some sort of DSS cube advantage passes.

Any idea who suggested the idea?
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 13, 2017 08:39AM
Leave the diesel and alcohol classes separate. Does it really excite a diesel guy to know he beat an alcohol job that was handicapped to begin with?
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 13, 2017 10:03AM
If that doesn't excite them then they can pull in the DSS. It matters what the crowd thinks. A good mix of Diesel and Alcohol tractors at a light weight with lots of wild rides will be a crowd pleaser.

Do the overhead cam 505's actually run any better than the pushrod 505's? Personally I don't think they should have outlawed overhead cams either.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 14, 2017 07:21AM
I also live in Wisconsin and attend several lss pulls a year. Saying it is a "mini GN" is a stretch. Lynn hasn't changed anything in years and isn't a factor on the national stage. The bomb isn't pulling anymore and the overall class is pretty small. OSTPA, oulaws and empire State have solid lss classes too. Couple local guys did good at Tomah, but they were also early in the class when the track was a little better. Esdon and digging hard are decent in the class, but nothing special. The GN boys would dominate them over the course of a season. I will also say the "it's what the fans want" argument is getting over used completely. I'm a fan, and I don't want to see a mixed class. I personally think alot of it is from pissed off diesel fans/pullers who still can't except that alcohol makes more power. The diesel pulled right after the alkys at BG and they removed a weight and changed gears on the sled. That tells me that the smokers should just stay in their in class. I've also haven't seen one actual puller get on here and say they want the change.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 14, 2017 07:42AM
Ohio State Tractor Pullers (OSTPA) doesn't have a light super class and the heavy super class is 95% alcohol (although Everman put it on them with his Diesel the other night) Second, would 35 CID really make that much difference especially at that level?
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 13, 2017 09:00AM
One rule I think should be proposed is in your bigger events they need to hook the NTPA GN Committed vehicles first, then the rest of the competitors. Bowling Green is horrible event for competition, most the classes have so many in them that the track changes so much from 1st hour to the 2nd hour to the 3rd hour of the same class. This year the North track ended up with a couple nasty squirrely spots in it. True competition requires a level playing field, I understand this is not easy to achieve, but when #1 and #2 in points race draw hook #'s 50 vehicles apart it is not even close to level playing field.

I'm thinking the rule would need to be written that if the class has more non-NTPA GN Committed vehicles then NTPA GN Committed vehicles then the Committed vehicles draw for the first round of hooks, then the rest of the class draws.

This also could play into an event that gets rained out, if the GN Committed all have run then they could actually set the points for them.

Thank You
Justin
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 14, 2017 12:29AM
Would anyone build a smoker for the LSS if they do adopt the 540 motor?

I still don't think it's a major advantage at all. But hopefully it would bring some smoke back in the class. The crowd enjoys seeing a rivalry!

With the amount of work it takes to keep one running it would be amazing to see a smoker make every GN hook. But you will never see one win a championship!!! You can not tune a diesel motor to hook up on the line and slowly come to life. You cant set your rev limiter lower for a terrible track.

But on the right track I think a Ross or bone twister setup could sneak a win in here and there.

I think it's a great idea. Hopefully it passes and some build for it!
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Re: No extra cubes for Diesel LSS! September 14, 2017 12:52AM
As Jake has pointed out, you look at the top of the class when making rules, not the bottom.

Wisconsin is the toughest LSS state. Just 2 weeks ago, Esdon won a RN LSS hook and Degenhardt was DQ'ed with a 4th place distance just a few feet back.

The rules are fine. The LSS diesel pullers (except for a few) are not maximizing the potential within those rules. Now, the argument about the benefit not being worth the cost for most diesel ss guys is a separate issue, but from a technology perspective you have 2 DSS that can compete and win in the LSS class under existing rules.
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Re: No extra cubes for Diesel LSS! September 14, 2017 05:08AM
I see your point. And I agree a diesel motor on kill and an alcohol motor that can run the entire season can compete with each other.

Push the alcohol motors so they make about 2-3 passes between break downs and I think they will blow a diesel out of the water. Some alcohol guys say they can run the entire season with just adjusting valves, changing oil, and tuning their boost and timing for the hole shot on the track. A diesel motor that can compete with that will have major issues all of the time. If you back a diesel motor so it lives the entire season I don't think it would be anywhere close to the alcohol tractors.

My hopes would be that a 540 motor wouldn't need to be pushed as hard to be competitive. In turn you could get someone to actually build a diesel for the LSS class. I don't think Esdon is having very good luck pushing his 505 motors that hard lately.

It really would make for a better show to have the rivalry. I am not saying this is the answer to getting diesel in LSS. But something has to be done. If a 505 diesel was just fine competing with the alcohol tractors why are there so few left?

Just my opinion, not upset or starting drama!Beer
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Re: No extra cubes for Diesel LSS! September 14, 2017 05:19AM
Yes a diesel can run with the alcohols under the current rules, but as Smoke Fan said be prepared to work on it all the time and have a ton of spare parts on hand. That's why you don't see many, and why the heavy SSD class is so far from what it once was. It's insanely expensive and it's no fun when you have to work on it all the time. Notice the Gettingers named their tractor "Lessons Learned" when they jumped from SSD to Alcohol.
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Re: No extra cubes for Diesel LSS! (WISCONSIN LSS ?) September 14, 2017 05:20AM
Good food for thought.
One thing that maybe folks from WI could answer is (imo) guys like Nelson, Lynn, Swenby, Red Thunder, and now Justin Hull are as good as the GN guys and run their stuff as hard as Chizek, Hootman, or Wettleson, they just choose to run closer to home.

Is it not a true statement that a WTPA LSS hook is basically a mini-GN and those alky guys push their equipment pretty hard to be competitive?

What I'm saying is I know Lehn and Degenhardt run hard, but the alky guys run very hard also. They have to with the caliber of tractors they pull against.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2017 05:24AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: No extra cubes for Diesel LSS! (WISCONSIN LSS ?) September 14, 2017 06:37AM
I agree 100%. I watch the Wisconsin LSS class run several times throughout the season and they seem to keep pushing their tractors harder and harder. Now you have the Spiegleberg's making the jump from the LLSS class to the LSS class and they have made tremendous progress throughout the season, and now because Lynn declines his invite to the Enderle, they will have their tractor their. They also ran in Knoxville with the PPL Champion Tour LLS class and took 4th i believe both nights. The Wisconsin LSS class is by far the best around the country, and they do get both diesel and alcohol tractors that run very competitive. I don't necessary agree with adding cubes to the diesel tractors, but if it adds more smokers to the class, I can't complain. Either way I am happy because to me I just love watching competitive classes.
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Re: No extra cubes for Diesel LSS! (WISCONSIN LSS ?) September 14, 2017 03:40PM
Maybe the cubic inches should be LOWERED for BOTH fuels. And I know how that idea will go over. Like a lead balloon!
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Re: No extra cubes for Diesel LSS! (WISCONSIN LSS ?) September 15, 2017 08:12AM
Something like 400/466ish would make things quite a bit simpler.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 14, 2017 07:57AM
Who cares exactly how exact the calibration weights are. Have sled operators weigh 4 of their weights in the 1000-2000 each range, mark them clearly and permanently. Add the 4 together and use them to calibrate the scales.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 14, 2017 10:34AM
I personally would love to see the diesel and alcohols run together. If giving the diesel a 540 cubic inch limit would encourage more to jump into the class then I am all for it. I believe that running the two fuels together would add another layer of excrements excitement to the class. And this augment that the diesel is to labor intensive really makes no sense. There is a segment of pullers in the multi charger diesel class that run way more that the 8 hooks that the LSS now run.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2017 03:35PM by Bryan Lively.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 14, 2017 02:30PM
Dick, you better look up the meaning of the word "excrements" that you used. Don't think we really want to see more wasted 'crap' (parts breakage) on the track.
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 15, 2017 04:49AM
That's great☺, so much for spell checker and proof reading!


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 15, 2017 06:18AM
Dick, did you and Lewis go to the same one room school?
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Re: NTPA Proposed Rules for 2018 September 15, 2017 11:39AM
That's right.
Unload four of them at a grain elevator and get the print out or have a wrecker at a truck stop and weigh the weights there.

2018 National pulling season brought to you by Quickrete and Cat ScalesBouncingEye Popping

Having a level concrete pad at each facility is important.

2018 fair board budget item: Concrete pad for scalesThumbs Up
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Re: Modified rule that needs changed September 15, 2017 12:43AM
NTPA should allow turbines in the light unlimited class. I cannot understand how an "unlimited" class would disallow turbines.

First, it's really an unlimited 2 motor class, meaning rwyb for those 2 motors, but that aside....

The benefit of allowing turbines is A. It could help with numbers, and B. Sorry, I just don't see two T-64s, which aren't going to get more hp than they already have, consistently beating 2 hemis with screw blowers or 18-71s, which keep improving as technology improves.
However, if either two turbines, two hemis, or two allisons could win, that would make for a better show.
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Re: Modified rule that needs changed September 15, 2017 06:25AM
I agree with you. All these mod classes need more diversity running the same tractor just with different paint and name is getting old. Im more inpressed with europe tractors
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Re: Modified rule that needs changed September 15, 2017 12:30PM
Yes very boring,cookie cutter tractors,classes,all look the same sound very similar,pull very nearly the same with sled settings have very close tire sizes,are pretty but boring as heck.ECI Labor day weekend,good example.
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