Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals August 30, 2018 02:31PM
This is not all of the proposals, but stream-of-conscious thoughts on a number of them. The class listed is the class where the proposal generated, though many would apply to all classes. Personal opinions regarding the proposals are in italics.

Two Wheel Drive Division:
Allow any automotive body style in Two Wheel Drive

Is this not currently allowed? Can we get an example of what automotive body style is not currently allowed?

For Grand and Super National Two Wheel Drive Class, allow the use of any electric traction control devices including but not limited to MSD Power Grid and Davis Technology Devices. Many in the class have a belief that there is not an effective way to police the use of these devices so it has been suggested to make them legal.

The TWD class has the best participation of any class in all of NTPA. I’d rather they either do all or nothing….. either allow electronic traction control across the board at all levels, or don’t allow at any. I’m not sure this is a needed rule.

Super Semi Division:
Lower vehicle weight down to 18,000 lbs. less weight to haul to the pulls, less strain on our motors, semi class has way more traction than any other pulling vehicle, let the wheels spin a little it will save on our engines and still put on a good show with less of us broken down.

This class had as good or better numbers this year than in recent memory. My concern is the same as another poster who replied on another thread, namely guys are going to push to the max no matter what the rules are. However, looking at the other side, several guys had to miss events due to breakage. As long as numbers won’t suffer, it may be worth a shot.

Modified Mini Division:
Make GN Mini purse equal to GN TWD

If the expense to run a mini is the same as a TWD, then this makes sense.

Make track lengths consistent, just because insurance company says track can be 350 doesn't mean track should be.

Not specific to minis, but this is one of the best statements of the entire rules proposals.

Super Farm Division:
Cut back cubic inches, by limiting horsepower and allowing a more attainable, cost effective entry level class.

I would not favor this idea for this reason: There is already an option for lower cubic inches (Light Pros). If one counts Hot Farm, which is only going to grow as an NTPA class in coming years, there are two options. While a lower cube limit may have been a good idea when the class began, many pullers have already spent money on their current engines. This is the opposite of Open Supers with articulated engines where we're talking about at most 5 with 2 on the same team. Changing an engine rule that affects a handful of pullers is one thing; changing an engine rule that will make obsolete the setups of 100 pullers nationwide is something else entirely. I will add one more contrary thought- this year several SF guys changed to Limited Pro. Same cubes. If the cube limit was lowered, I predict a mass influx of guys buying 4.1 chargers, and I'm not sure many guys would suddenly ditch their 640 engines to run this new lower CI Super Farm class..

Even enforcement of the rules in the rule book for all competitors and equipment. Example given to me: quantity of tabs on sheet metal sides only enforced on a few tractors in Bowling Green, OH. They were required to add them to be allowed to compete, while other tractors were not required to add them and were to be allowed to compete without the required tabs. Depending on the official whom inspected the vehicle, determined the requirements to compete. One tech line looked for some items of importance to them, but a different tech line ignored the same items, but chose to look for different items of importance to them.

This is something that should be consistent organization-wide. If NTPA wants to be the sport’s leader, unyielding consistency of enforcement is a must.

Require fuel testing at each event. Onsite NTPA must have the ability with the personnel, equipment and procedure to check all fuels in use. If equipment not present at event, to check the fuel in use, that fuel is deemed illegal at that event.

Not sure of the feasibility of this idea, but based on the history of this class, I’d live to see this tried for a year.

Limit length of track to under 350' maximum. Distances should be restricted to what the vehicles are currently built, tuned and developed for and that has been 320' for an uncountable amount of years. They should not be dictated by the promoter, or the available space, or based on allowable insurance distances or restrictions. Stretching the pulling surface further each year only hurts and costs the owners competing with the vehicles in durability and future performance losses with additional maintenance costs and more likely hood, breakage and damage, i.e. Rockwell, IA finish distances for 2018.

Similar to a prior request, but I agree wholeheartedly.

Limited Pro Stock Division:
4.1 Turbo rule I would like to see a exhaust side rule like PPL that states: All exhaust will exit through a 4.5" opening in the exhaust housing. Exhaust wheel must protrude 1/8th inch inside of opening. I think it would be a good idea to put a limit on it now so it doesn't get out of hand.

If this makes for a consistent rule between the two organizations, sounds like a very reasonable suggestion.

Light Pro Stock Division:

Attached petition was signed by 38 Light Pro Stock Competitors:
This petition to the WPI/NTPA Executive Boards, submitted this September, 2018 is for a rule change for 2019 and succeeding years, to allow the use of an aftermarket OEM recast block in the Light Pro Stock Class. (Rule -page 53, item h-1 of the 2018 NTPA Rule Book under component chassis Pro Stock Tractors).

For safety and longevity reasons, seems like a good idea.

Test pull the sled minimum of 3 times as close to start of event as possible. Reason is the track dries out on top, giving 1st puller an advantage.

Sounds logical, therefore it probably will not be implemented. Just kidding. Good idea.

2019 Light Pro Stock Class to be added to Grand National level of competition.

This should have been done a couple years ago, but NTPA needs to not drop the ball. If they don’t make it a GN class, PPL will make it a Champions Tour class in a couple year.

Light Unlimited Division:
We propose to either change the current rule to allow a maximum of 14-71 blowers and lock the rules in.
OR:
Leave the current rules as they are allowing 18-71 blowers and screw blowers and lock the rules in.
I would like to propose a change to Rule V, C #2
Allow two Hemis or 481x engines with 14-71's and no overdrive limit, three engines with wedge factory style heads that will accept factory bolt pattern manifold to run 8-71 blowers with a 70% overdrive limit. Also allow three engines with Big Chief style heads, cast only, no billet heads and stock bolt pattern manifold with 8-71 blowers at 50% overdrive all at a weight of 6500 lbs.

Leaving the rules as they are will make for a class of 5 or 6 imo. Limiting to 14-71s is a better idea. If 3 wedge engines will entice people to enter, go for it. Raising to 6500 lbs seems (to me) to get to the point of defeating the purpose of a light class.

Modified Division:

In view of advancements in cylinder head design, ignition systems and 871 and 1471 superchargers during the past 13 years since horsepower limits were established for the region national turbine powered tractors in 2005 this is a request to raise the limit for 5050 to 5350 to allow the turbine powered tractors to be more in line with the power levels that are now available to the piston engines.
New engine combination for Grand National 7500 Modified *Two (2) Allison engines with screw chargers.
A competitor has requested to allow a twin turbocharged Allison and a supercharged Allison to run Regional national limitations.
V. Modified Tractors
E. 7500 lb Modified Regional Level Limits
Change 7, so it reads: Two Allison engines with a maximum of 9.6-1 supercharged ratio with a stock Allison 9.5" blower wheel with water. Must use SFI spec. 42 blower containment device.
Logic: Two Allisons with 10" wheels and no blower speed restrictions could not keep up with two Hemi engines in the Light Unlimited.

If this brings variety to the mod class, let’s give it a shot.

Light Super Stock Division:
With the computer draw for pulling position, it seems that the teams with multiple vehicles are back to back alot. I think we should put the person ahead or behind in the middle to speed the show. It would save time trying to get the driver from one end to the other to start the next vehicle.

It is inconvenient if Korth is back to back (let’s be honest, this is who this is directed at), but a blind draw seems to be the fairest method of pull order.

Super Stock Open Division:
I think it's in the best interest to all Super Stock class that we go back to 2 wheel drive tractor engines. After talking with several State and Grand National pullers in Super Stock class we feel that it is best for the class to grow and to continue on in the future.
A number of competitors have come to me wanting to change engine rule back to Two Wheel Drive engines only, in all Super Stock Classes. They feel this will attract new competitors who would feel like they would have a chance. Everyone wants this class to survive and grow.

IF this only affects literally no more than a handful of vehicles currently in competition, it may be a worthwhile thing to do. Many would suggest allowing non-2WD engines was a bad idea to begin with.

Super Stock Diesel 4x4 Division:
We need to address problems with the scales and the diesel trucks.

1. Inconsistency with scales:
The scales should be a measurement of the total weight of the vehicle and driver and it should have nothing to do with how that weight is distributed. That is currently not the case.
I think the first step in correcting the scale problem is to require promoters/venues to provide a flat level concrete pad for the scales to be placed. Then for the scales to be calibrated as best you can with a known item. (Maybe a block from transfer box?)

The SSD FWD proposals are long and detailed, with several examples illustrating their points. This is broader than just one class, though. IMO, there is no excuse for inconsistent scales. I do not see why an organization as large as NTPA or PPL cannot buy their own scales which would be consistent. If it costs $10,000, it would be money well spent imo. The mandatory concrete pad is a great idea also.

General submissions:
If a session of pulling starts and inclement weather cancels the pull, and the promoter has a no refund policy for spectators, the vehicles who received a measurable distance are to be paid according to placing at time of cancellation. Even if half the show is not completed. The vehicles that did not run will split any purse money left equally. If more competitors have ran than placing pays, those competitors will receive their entry fee money back.

Yes. If the promoter keeps the money and vehicles have hooked, the money should be paid to the people putting on the show.

Track length the same at events. 330'. Chalk lines to be ran to full pull mark. anything past 330' requires a pull off. Re-implement pull off money at GN level. $300, $200, $100.
Of the track length proposals, this is the best one. Make it one length and stick with it. NHRA runs either 1320 or 1000 (for TF and FC) at every event. Whether 300, 320, or 330, have one length except in the rare circumstance a venue is too short. Otherwise, make it one length for all events and don’t mess with it.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2018 04:19PM by The Original Michael.

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals August 31, 2018 01:42AM
Thought this was interesting under Light Prostock.


Any brand sheet metal to be used on any brand of chassis. Engine, transmission, and rear end of tractors still have to match each other by the per rules in the 2018 rule book.

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals August 31, 2018 05:36AM
They need to add turbines to the light unlimited class

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals August 31, 2018 05:38AM
Quote
Iggy
They need to add turbines to the light unlimited class

Agreed. That is one change where they could pick up several potential vehicles who could. (probably) already make weight.

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals August 31, 2018 02:29AM
The Super Farm changes are too late but good ones. As for comparing LT Pros as a cheaper option than super farm you're way off on that one. 3000 turbo compared to 15000

scale calibration methods / concrete pads at fairground August 31, 2018 11:38AM
Quote
The Original Michael
This is not all of the proposals, but stream-of-conscious thoughts on a number of them. The class listed is the class where the proposal generated, though many would apply to all classes. Personal opinions regarding the proposals are in italics.

Two Wheel Drive Division:
Allow any automotive body style in Two Wheel Drive

Is this not currently allowed? Can we get an example of what automotive body style is not currently allowed?

For Grand and Super National Two Wheel Drive Class, allow the use of any electric traction control devices including but not limited to MSD Power Grid and Davis Technology Devices. Many in the class have a belief that there is not an effective way to police the use of these devices so it has been suggested to make them legal.

The TWD class has the best participation of any class in all of NTPA. I’d rather they either do all or nothing….. either allow electronic traction control across the board at all levels, or don’t allow at any. I’m not sure this is a needed rule.

Super Semi Division:
Lower vehicle weight down to 18,000 lbs. less weight to haul to the pulls, less strain on our motors, semi class has way more traction than any other pulling vehicle, let the wheels spin a little it will save on our engines and still put on a good show with less of us broken down.

This class had as good or better numbers this year than in recent memory. My concern is the same as another poster who replied on another thread, namely guys are going to push to the max no matter what the rules are. However, looking at the other side, several guys had to miss events due to breakage. As long as numbers won’t suffer, it may be worth a shot.

Modified Mini Division:
Make GN Mini purse equal to GN TWD

If the expense to run a mini is the same as a TWD, then this makes sense.

Make track lengths consistent, just because insurance company says track can be 350 doesn't mean track should be.

Not specific to minis, but this is one of the best statements of the entire rules proposals.

Super Farm Division:
Cut back cubic inches, by limiting horsepower and allowing a more attainable, cost effective entry level class.

I would not favor this idea for this reason: There is already an option for lower cubic inches (Light Pros). If one counts Hot Farm, which is only going to grow as an NTPA class in coming years, there are two options. While a lower cube limit may have been a good idea when the class began, many pullers have already spent money on their current engines. This is the opposite of Open Supers with articulated engines where we're talking about at most 5 with 2 on the same team. Changing an engine rule that affects a handful of pullers is one thing; changing an engine rule that will make obsolete the setups of 100 pullers nationwide is something else entirely. I will add one more contrary thought- this year several SF guys changed to Limited Pro. Same cubes. If the cube limit was lowered, I predict a mass influx of guys buying 4.1 chargers, and I'm not sure many guys would suddenly ditch their 640 engines to run this new lower CI Super Farm class..

Even enforcement of the rules in the rule book for all competitors and equipment. Example given to me: quantity of tabs on sheet metal sides only enforced on a few tractors in Bowling Green, OH. They were required to add them to be allowed to compete, while other tractors were not required to add them and were to be allowed to compete without the required tabs. Depending on the official whom inspected the vehicle, determined the requirements to compete. One tech line looked for some items of importance to them, but a different tech line ignored the same items, but chose to look for different items of importance to them.

This is something that should be consistent organization-wide. If NTPA wants to be the sport’s leader, unyielding consistency of enforcement is a must.

Require fuel testing at each event. Onsite NTPA must have the ability with the personnel, equipment and procedure to check all fuels in use. If equipment not present at event, to check the fuel in use, that fuel is deemed illegal at that event.

Not sure of the feasibility of this idea, but based on the history of this class, I’d live to see this tried for a year.

Limit length of track to under 350' maximum. Distances should be restricted to what the vehicles are currently built, tuned and developed for and that has been 320' for an uncountable amount of years. They should not be dictated by the promoter, or the available space, or based on allowable insurance distances or restrictions. Stretching the pulling surface further each year only hurts and costs the owners competing with the vehicles in durability and future performance losses with additional maintenance costs and more likely hood, breakage and damage, i.e. Rockwell, IA finish distances for 2018.

Similar to a prior request, but I agree wholeheartedly.

Limited Pro Stock Division:
4.1 Turbo rule I would like to see a exhaust side rule like PPL that states: All exhaust will exit through a 4.5" opening in the exhaust housing. Exhaust wheel must protrude 1/8th inch inside of opening. I think it would be a good idea to put a limit on it now so it doesn't get out of hand.

If this makes for a consistent rule between the two organizations, sounds like a very reasonable suggestion.

Light Pro Stock Division:

Attached petition was signed by 38 Light Pro Stock Competitors:
This petition to the WPI/NTPA Executive Boards, submitted this September, 2018 is for a rule change for 2019 and succeeding years, to allow the use of an aftermarket OEM recast block in the Light Pro Stock Class. (Rule -page 53, item h-1 of the 2018 NTPA Rule Book under component chassis Pro Stock Tractors).

For safety and longevity reasons, seems like a good idea.

Test pull the sled minimum of 3 times as close to start of event as possible. Reason is the track dries out on top, giving 1st puller an advantage.

Sounds logical, therefore it probably will not be implemented. Just kidding. Good idea.

2019 Light Pro Stock Class to be added to Grand National level of competition.

This should have been done a couple years ago, but NTPA needs to not drop the ball. If they don’t make it a GN class, PPL will make it a Champions Tour class in a couple year.

Light Unlimited Division:
We propose to either change the current rule to allow a maximum of 14-71 blowers and lock the rules in.
OR:
Leave the current rules as they are allowing 18-71 blowers and screw blowers and lock the rules in.
I would like to propose a change to Rule V, C #2
Allow two Hemis or 481x engines with 14-71's and no overdrive limit, three engines with wedge factory style heads that will accept factory bolt pattern manifold to run 8-71 blowers with a 70% overdrive limit. Also allow three engines with Big Chief style heads, cast only, no billet heads and stock bolt pattern manifold with 8-71 blowers at 50% overdrive all at a weight of 6500 lbs.

Leaving the rules as they are will make for a class of 5 or 6 imo. Limiting to 14-71s is a better idea. If 3 wedge engines will entice people to enter, go for it. Raising to 6500 lbs seems (to me) to get to the point of defeating the purpose of a light class.

Modified Division:

In view of advancements in cylinder head design, ignition systems and 871 and 1471 superchargers during the past 13 years since horsepower limits were established for the region national turbine powered tractors in 2005 this is a request to raise the limit for 5050 to 5350 to allow the turbine powered tractors to be more in line with the power levels that are now available to the piston engines.
New engine combination for Grand National 7500 Modified *Two (2) Allison engines with screw chargers.
A competitor has requested to allow a twin turbocharged Allison and a supercharged Allison to run Regional national limitations.
V. Modified Tractors
E. 7500 lb Modified Regional Level Limits
Change 7, so it reads: Two Allison engines with a maximum of 9.6-1 supercharged ratio with a stock Allison 9.5" blower wheel with water. Must use SFI spec. 42 blower containment device.
Logic: Two Allisons with 10" wheels and no blower speed restrictions could not keep up with two Hemi engines in the Light Unlimited.

If this brings variety to the mod class, let’s give it a shot.

Light Super Stock Division:
With the computer draw for pulling position, it seems that the teams with multiple vehicles are back to back alot. I think we should put the person ahead or behind in the middle to speed the show. It would save time trying to get the driver from one end to the other to start the next vehicle.

It is inconvenient if Korth is back to back (let’s be honest, this is who this is directed at), but a blind draw seems to be the fairest method of pull order.

Super Stock Open Division:
I think it's in the best interest to all Super Stock class that we go back to 2 wheel drive tractor engines. After talking with several State and Grand National pullers in Super Stock class we feel that it is best for the class to grow and to continue on in the future.
A number of competitors have come to me wanting to change engine rule back to Two Wheel Drive engines only, in all Super Stock Classes. They feel this will attract new competitors who would feel like they would have a chance. Everyone wants this class to survive and grow.

IF this only affects literally no more than a handful of vehicles currently in competition, it may be a worthwhile thing to do. Many would suggest allowing non-2WD engines was a bad idea to begin with.

Super Stock Diesel 4x4 Division:
We need to address problems with the scales and the diesel trucks.

1. Inconsistency with scales:
The scales should be a measurement of the total weight of the vehicle and driver and it should have nothing to do with how that weight is distributed. That is currently not the case.
I think the first step in correcting the scale problem is to require promoters/venues to provide a flat level concrete pad for the scales to be placed. Then for the scales to be calibrated as best you can with a known item. (Maybe a block from transfer box?)

The SSD FWD proposals are long and detailed, with several examples illustrating their points. This is broader than just one class, though. IMO, there is no excuse for inconsistent scales. I do not see why an organization as large as NTPA or PPL cannot buy their own scales which would be consistent. If it costs $10,000, it would be money well spent imo. The mandatory concrete pad is a great idea also.

General submissions:
If a session of pulling starts and inclement weather cancels the pull, and the promoter has a no refund policy for spectators, the vehicles who received a measurable distance are to be paid according to placing at time of cancellation. Even if half the show is not completed. The vehicles that did not run will split any purse money left equally. If more competitors have ran than placing pays, those competitors will receive their entry fee money back.

Yes. If the promoter keeps the money and vehicles have hooked, the money should be paid to the people putting on the show.

Track length the same at events. 330'. Chalk lines to be ran to full pull mark. anything past 330' requires a pull off. Re-implement pull off money at GN level. $300, $200, $100.
Of the track length proposals, this is the best one. Make it one length and stick with it. NHRA runs either 1320 or 1000 (for TF and FC) at every event. Whether 300, 320, or 330, have one length except in the rare circumstance a venue is too short. Otherwise, make it one length for all events and don’t mess with it.

Regarding the weight for scale calibration has been the same issue for 30 years.

Scales are set on dirt and then they settle or it rains etc. or even on the steel construction plates they will sink sometimes.

All major events should have a concrete pad for the scales.

All sleds should have 4 weights that have been weighed at a certified scale (for example a grain scale for semis or the truck stop scale) and then weld the number on them or have a plate attached to them. Use these weights to sit on each corner of the scale as a test. Maybe not the big 2,000 lb. weights but 4 equal weights that the sled is normally carrying and can be set on the scale to test with. 4x4 trucks with all the nose weight can be tricky sometimes (maybe set the calibration weights where most of their front tires are sitting. Just a thought. They would already be on the sled and not extra weight to be hauled around.

OR take a stock pickup truck to the local truck stop scale or feed mill and weigh it and drive it to the fairgrounds and use it as the official weight.

Scales get dropped sometimes or 4x4 truck weight boxes hit them when going up on the scales and slide them around and screw up the load cell. (Richard Love, Logan Thomas, Vaughan Bauer and many other sled owners can probably suggest some good ideals also).

Maybe a new national sponsor Quickcrete concrete / scale pad sponsor for 2019 Spinning

Re: scale calibration methods / concrete pads at fairground August 31, 2018 03:22PM
Quote
Kevin H

This is not all of the proposals, but stream-of-conscious thoughts on a number of them. The class listed is the class where the proposal generated, though many would apply to all classes. Personal opinions regarding the proposals are in italics.

Two Wheel Drive Division:
Allow any automotive body style in Two Wheel Drive

Is this not currently allowed? Can we get an example of what automotive body style is not currently allowed?

For Grand and Super National Two Wheel Drive Class, allow the use of any electric traction control devices including but not limited to MSD Power Grid and Davis Technology Devices. Many in the class have a belief that there is not an effective way to police the use of these devices so it has been suggested to make them legal.

The TWD class has the best participation of any class in all of NTPA. I’d rather they either do all or nothing….. either allow electronic traction control across the board at all levels, or don’t allow at any. I’m not sure this is a needed rule.

Super Semi Division:
Lower vehicle weight down to 18,000 lbs. less weight to haul to the pulls, less strain on our motors, semi class has way more traction than any other pulling vehicle, let the wheels spin a little it will save on our engines and still put on a good show with less of us broken down.

This class had as good or better numbers this year than in recent memory. My concern is the same as another poster who replied on another thread, namely guys are going to push to the max no matter what the rules are. However, looking at the other side, several guys had to miss events due to breakage. As long as numbers won’t suffer, it may be worth a shot.

Modified Mini Division:
Make GN Mini purse equal to GN TWD

If the expense to run a mini is the same as a TWD, then this makes sense.

Make track lengths consistent, just because insurance company says track can be 350 doesn't mean track should be.

Not specific to minis, but this is one of the best statements of the entire rules proposals.

Super Farm Division:
Cut back cubic inches, by limiting horsepower and allowing a more attainable, cost effective entry level class.

I would not favor this idea for this reason: There is already an option for lower cubic inches (Light Pros). If one counts Hot Farm, which is only going to grow as an NTPA class in coming years, there are two options. While a lower cube limit may have been a good idea when the class began, many pullers have already spent money on their current engines. This is the opposite of Open Supers with articulated engines where we're talking about at most 5 with 2 on the same team. Changing an engine rule that affects a handful of pullers is one thing; changing an engine rule that will make obsolete the setups of 100 pullers nationwide is something else entirely. I will add one more contrary thought- this year several SF guys changed to Limited Pro. Same cubes. If the cube limit was lowered, I predict a mass influx of guys buying 4.1 chargers, and I'm not sure many guys would suddenly ditch their 640 engines to run this new lower CI Super Farm class..

Even enforcement of the rules in the rule book for all competitors and equipment. Example given to me: quantity of tabs on sheet metal sides only enforced on a few tractors in Bowling Green, OH. They were required to add them to be allowed to compete, while other tractors were not required to add them and were to be allowed to compete without the required tabs. Depending on the official whom inspected the vehicle, determined the requirements to compete. One tech line looked for some items of importance to them, but a different tech line ignored the same items, but chose to look for different items of importance to them.

This is something that should be consistent organization-wide. If NTPA wants to be the sport’s leader, unyielding consistency of enforcement is a must.

Require fuel testing at each event. Onsite NTPA must have the ability with the personnel, equipment and procedure to check all fuels in use. If equipment not present at event, to check the fuel in use, that fuel is deemed illegal at that event.

Not sure of the feasibility of this idea, but based on the history of this class, I’d live to see this tried for a year.

Limit length of track to under 350' maximum. Distances should be restricted to what the vehicles are currently built, tuned and developed for and that has been 320' for an uncountable amount of years. They should not be dictated by the promoter, or the available space, or based on allowable insurance distances or restrictions. Stretching the pulling surface further each year only hurts and costs the owners competing with the vehicles in durability and future performance losses with additional maintenance costs and more likely hood, breakage and damage, i.e. Rockwell, IA finish distances for 2018.

Similar to a prior request, but I agree wholeheartedly.

Limited Pro Stock Division:
4.1 Turbo rule I would like to see a exhaust side rule like PPL that states: All exhaust will exit through a 4.5" opening in the exhaust housing. Exhaust wheel must protrude 1/8th inch inside of opening. I think it would be a good idea to put a limit on it now so it doesn't get out of hand.

If this makes for a consistent rule between the two organizations, sounds like a very reasonable suggestion.

Light Pro Stock Division:

Attached petition was signed by 38 Light Pro Stock Competitors:
This petition to the WPI/NTPA Executive Boards, submitted this September, 2018 is for a rule change for 2019 and succeeding years, to allow the use of an aftermarket OEM recast block in the Light Pro Stock Class. (Rule -page 53, item h-1 of the 2018 NTPA Rule Book under component chassis Pro Stock Tractors).

For safety and longevity reasons, seems like a good idea.

Test pull the sled minimum of 3 times as close to start of event as possible. Reason is the track dries out on top, giving 1st puller an advantage.

Sounds logical, therefore it probably will not be implemented. Just kidding. Good idea.

2019 Light Pro Stock Class to be added to Grand National level of competition.

This should have been done a couple years ago, but NTPA needs to not drop the ball. If they don’t make it a GN class, PPL will make it a Champions Tour class in a couple year.

Light Unlimited Division:
We propose to either change the current rule to allow a maximum of 14-71 blowers and lock the rules in.
OR:
Leave the current rules as they are allowing 18-71 blowers and screw blowers and lock the rules in.
I would like to propose a change to Rule V, C #2
Allow two Hemis or 481x engines with 14-71's and no overdrive limit, three engines with wedge factory style heads that will accept factory bolt pattern manifold to run 8-71 blowers with a 70% overdrive limit. Also allow three engines with Big Chief style heads, cast only, no billet heads and stock bolt pattern manifold with 8-71 blowers at 50% overdrive all at a weight of 6500 lbs.

Leaving the rules as they are will make for a class of 5 or 6 imo. Limiting to 14-71s is a better idea. If 3 wedge engines will entice people to enter, go for it. Raising to 6500 lbs seems (to me) to get to the point of defeating the purpose of a light class.

Modified Division:

In view of advancements in cylinder head design, ignition systems and 871 and 1471 superchargers during the past 13 years since horsepower limits were established for the region national turbine powered tractors in 2005 this is a request to raise the limit for 5050 to 5350 to allow the turbine powered tractors to be more in line with the power levels that are now available to the piston engines.
New engine combination for Grand National 7500 Modified *Two (2) Allison engines with screw chargers.
A competitor has requested to allow a twin turbocharged Allison and a supercharged Allison to run Regional national limitations.
V. Modified Tractors
E. 7500 lb Modified Regional Level Limits
Change 7, so it reads: Two Allison engines with a maximum of 9.6-1 supercharged ratio with a stock Allison 9.5" blower wheel with water. Must use SFI spec. 42 blower containment device.
Logic: Two Allisons with 10" wheels and no blower speed restrictions could not keep up with two Hemi engines in the Light Unlimited.

If this brings variety to the mod class, let’s give it a shot.

Light Super Stock Division:
With the computer draw for pulling position, it seems that the teams with multiple vehicles are back to back alot. I think we should put the person ahead or behind in the middle to speed the show. It would save time trying to get the driver from one end to the other to start the next vehicle.

It is inconvenient if Korth is back to back (let’s be honest, this is who this is directed at), but a blind draw seems to be the fairest method of pull order.

Super Stock Open Division:
I think it's in the best interest to all Super Stock class that we go back to 2 wheel drive tractor engines. After talking with several State and Grand National pullers in Super Stock class we feel that it is best for the class to grow and to continue on in the future.
A number of competitors have come to me wanting to change engine rule back to Two Wheel Drive engines only, in all Super Stock Classes. They feel this will attract new competitors who would feel like they would have a chance. Everyone wants this class to survive and grow.

IF this only affects literally no more than a handful of vehicles currently in competition, it may be a worthwhile thing to do. Many would suggest allowing non-2WD engines was a bad idea to begin with.

Super Stock Diesel 4x4 Division:
We need to address problems with the scales and the diesel trucks.

1. Inconsistency with scales:
The scales should be a measurement of the total weight of the vehicle and driver and it should have nothing to do with how that weight is distributed. That is currently not the case.
I think the first step in correcting the scale problem is to require promoters/venues to provide a flat level concrete pad for the scales to be placed. Then for the scales to be calibrated as best you can with a known item. (Maybe a block from transfer box?)

The SSD FWD proposals are long and detailed, with several examples illustrating their points. This is broader than just one class, though. IMO, there is no excuse for inconsistent scales. I do not see why an organization as large as NTPA or PPL cannot buy their own scales which would be consistent. If it costs $10,000, it would be money well spent imo. The mandatory concrete pad is a great idea also.

General submissions:
If a session of pulling starts and inclement weather cancels the pull, and the promoter has a no refund policy for spectators, the vehicles who received a measurable distance are to be paid according to placing at time of cancellation. Even if half the show is not completed. The vehicles that did not run will split any purse money left equally. If more competitors have ran than placing pays, those competitors will receive their entry fee money back.

Yes. If the promoter keeps the money and vehicles have hooked, the money should be paid to the people putting on the show.

Track length the same at events. 330'. Chalk lines to be ran to full pull mark. anything past 330' requires a pull off. Re-implement pull off money at GN level. $300, $200, $100.
Of the track length proposals, this is the best one. Make it one length and stick with it. NHRA runs either 1320 or 1000 (for TF and FC) at every event. Whether 300, 320, or 330, have one length except in the rare circumstance a venue is too short. Otherwise, make it one length for all events and don’t mess with it.

Regarding the weight for scale calibration has been the same issue for 30 years.

Scales are set on dirt and then they settle or it rains etc. or even on the steel construction plates they will sink sometimes.

All major events should have a concrete pad for the scales.

All sleds should have 4 weights that have been weighed at a certified scale (for example a grain scale for semis or the truck stop scale) and then weld the number on them or have a plate attached to them. Use these weights to sit on each corner of the scale as a test. Maybe not the big 2,000 lb. weights but 4 equal weights that the sled is normally carrying and can be set on the scale to test with. 4x4 trucks with all the nose weight can be tricky sometimes (maybe set the calibration weights where most of their front tires are sitting. Just a thought. They would already be on the sled and not extra weight to be hauled around.

OR take a stock pickup truck to the local truck stop scale or feed mill and weigh it and drive it to the fairgrounds and use it as the official weight.

Amen!

Scales get dropped sometimes or 4x4 truck weight boxes hit them when going up on the scales and slide them around and screw up the load cell. (Richard Love, Logan Thomas, Vaughan Bauer and many other sled owners can probably suggest some good ideals also).

Maybe a new national sponsor Quickcrete concrete / scale pad sponsor for 2019 Spinning

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals August 31, 2018 12:29PM
The light super rule proposal cracks me up. Lets give the team with 3 tractors a shot at the track in the beginning the middle and the end of the class surely should be a good track at some point. How about if your tractors are back to back and you cant make it to the sled in 3 minutes you get dqed or you find another driver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2018 12:30PM by smuggler.

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals August 31, 2018 01:17PM
I agree with Smuggler! Say First Puller on Korths ride gets to drive it.

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals August 31, 2018 03:53PM
Quote
smuggler
The light super rule proposal cracks me up. Lets give the team with 3 tractors a shot at the track in the beginning the middle and the end of the class surely should be a good track at some point. How about if your tractors are back to back and you cant make it to the sled in 3 minutes you get dqed or you find another driver.




Where is the "like" button for your response?

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals September 03, 2018 02:01AM
18K is too light for semi’s. A stock heavy capacity truck can weigh that much without all the safety gear. The class will be harder for a new guy to get into and heavier engine brands will be at a disadvantage (V8Mack, KT Cummins) enter a bunch of expensive light weight components. Keep it at 20K lower the hitch.

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals September 03, 2018 03:35AM
Every semi I see cross the scales has PLENTY of weight they can take off!
Not uncommon for day cab semi's, even with heavy rated axles, to be in the 15k area. Cheap company trucks even lighter.
18k would be easy for every truck currently pulling.
With the Q model Cummins legal, as well as electronic being legal in NTPA for semi's, chances of seeing any new trucks with a KTA will be rare.

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals September 03, 2018 12:57PM
I wont dispute what you see crossing the scales at current NTPA pulls. But I respectfully disagree on the rest of your comment. I’ve owned and speced trucks for 20years. A 15k lb truck with a big block cat or cummins engine, 18speed trans, heavy frame, 46k rears doesn’t happen. My Mack with a puny 11L engine weighs close to 18k before I add weights. If it were a V8, or even a C15 Cat it would be heavier. Ryan DeBroux KW Is probably every bit of 19k without weights.

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals September 03, 2018 05:17PM
Count the weights, and LOOK at the monster weight on many right front axles,,,,,,,,,
I build trucks, 47 1/2 hours a week.
18,000 lb pulling truck is easy!
No special parts.
JR Collins truck had a heck of a stack of weights on the back. Heavy drive axles, V-8 engine. Been there since Moses was a baby, and wasn't going to change.
Most real truckers are happy if they get paid same money to haul 2000 lbs. less.

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals September 03, 2018 07:11PM
Thier is only one guy that wants any of this and he has only made all the hooks one year and had a bunch of bad luck this year

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals September 04, 2018 02:53AM
Im not trying to be ornery and Ive given you credit where you were correct, but you’re stating things that just aren’t true. Collins had a ton of weight saving tricks on that truck. Ultimately, the cab was a fiberglass reproduction, IIRC. working in a truck factory doesn’t give You the perspective of an engineer or end user. Do you know how much weight an air ride passenger seat ads, how much less center fuse drums weigh than cast iron drums, how much weight you save with aluminum hubs, the weight savings of 22.5 low pro vs.24.5 tall? No REAL trucker would care about 2000lbs of weight savings? I hope NTPA is making decisions from better arguments than what you presented here. Hopefully an NTPA semi puller, whos intelligent, and cares about what’s best for the class will chime in. The facts I present are true, but my opinions could certainly be wrong.

Buster Adams Motorwood@hotmail.com

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals Semi September 04, 2018 03:02PM
Nothing new under the sun. Already were 18 inch drawbar and went back. Making NTPA weight different than everyone else will hurt your numbers. Numbers were crappy this year everywhere except OSTPA. If you really want to slow breakage there is only 1 way. Put a limit on the intake suction size. Everyone suck through the same whole, no matter how many turbos. Make it small enough so it hurts everyone. Any other limit is a waist of time. Lighter weight will do nothing to keep engines together, only hurt your numbers.

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals Semi September 05, 2018 03:15PM
With 2000 less lbs on a a semi will have less rear weight transfer to the rear wheels than a 20,000 lb truck which will allow for more slippage, and if you watch the semi class there is not much wheel slip now , I think it’s a move in the right direction, also less weight for the sled operator to stop the class more safely

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals September 04, 2018 10:53PM
The statement on limiting track length to under 350 says it all. We have over powered the tracks you goofs. Time to put some real leather harnesses on the ponies. Way out of control. If all vehicles in all classes dropped HP by 20% all problems from build and upkeep cost would also go down. The tracks and current sleds could handle all classes and NO ONE IN THE STANDS WOULD KNOW THE DIFFERENCE...

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals September 07, 2018 09:09AM
All pulling vehicles drop horsepower to take out long hooks? That is a dumb statement. Pullers keep learning and building better equipment for the spectator's enjoyment and the builder's also. Cut that out of the deal and pulling will get kinda boring Bring on the big toys and go!

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals September 05, 2018 03:31AM
I like the scale idea with the test weights/concrete pad. Shouldnt be just NTPA level.

Re: Thoughts on NTPA rule proposals September 16, 2018 04:14AM
Any news on rule changes or classes added to the Grand National lineup after this weekend?

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