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Unlimited mods in ten years?
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
A decade ago, I wouldn't have guessed 4 engines w/ 18-71s or screw blowers would be one of the most popular combos. Pullers do not tend to sit still. What do you think the class will look like ten years from now? Will the 4 with 18- 71s or screws still be popular? Will 5 engines come back in vogue? What other combos could we see? Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2018 10:55PM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: Unlimited mods in ten years?
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Registered: 02/18/2018 Posts: 244 |
I’m not sure how many Unlimited Mods will be left in ten years… |
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Re: Unlimited mods in ten years?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523 |
What other possible combinations can compete with the via now,let alone in 10 yrs with constant r and d ih them ??.simply put it's a bi class from now on |
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Re: Unlimited mods in ten years?
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I know it will sound like heresy, but we need to start having a conversation about backing the horsepower down in the heavy Mod classes, especially the Unlimited class. Personally I'd love to see the NTPA and PPL get on the same page with rules.
I'm not sure what the solution is but I really don't think we need three mod classes either. I'd prefer just a Light and a Heavy Mod class with nothing inbetween. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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mods
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523 |
I ust to love the mods,such variety back in the old days.i wouldn't walk across the street to watch them now, |
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Re: mods
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LEWIS
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That makes two get the Allisons ,the Radial engines and the Turbines back. the over seas U tube pulls are great ,Sometimes the end result of progress is not progress at all |
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Re: mods
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watcher
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Jake, still the most consistent performing MOD class is the MOD class. Sure is not the Light or the Heavy. These 2 classes are spending themselves into oblivion, just like we have seen in SSD.
I would vote to terminate each of Light and Heavy Unlimited. Light UNL sure is not bringing in any new pullers, as originally surmised and then continued dreaming about that theory. Thus, the class is not growing. The Heavy UNL participation wanes up and down. Breakage abounds with a lot of poor showings in this class. If anything, I would ante up the NTPA MOD weight to match the PPL MOD weight but limited to 4 automotive type engines. And make it fair that turbine and radial and industrial and old aircraft engine powered tractors are on a level playing field power wise. This class, in each organization, generally has very good particiapation and class performance results. |
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Re: mods
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I still like the idea of the Light Mod class but I think the rules are bad and I think the implementation of the rules is even worse. I think it should have rules that are similar to many state and regional classes with 2 hemi's and 3 chevy/wedge motors, twin Allison's (limited of course), turbines, inline 6's and other industrial motors all with limits to keep them close.
I like the Mod class and I like the Unlimited class but they are too close in weight and too close in appearance. I completely argee that matching PPL rules and finding a middle ground between the two would be the best option. Personally I'd drop the whole (stupid) Unlimited names and just call them Light Mod and Heavy Mod. I agree with the other posts, and I truly miss the variety that the class had back in the day. I watch the videos of the European Mod classes and it really makes me wish we still had more variety in our classes. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: mods
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523 |
Allison's should have no restrictions of any kind in any class.... |
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Re: mods
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DL
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Not sure what are your reservations about how the rules are implemented Jake? I understand that there are ALOT of different ideas about the rules of the current light unlimited class but the best argument I heard for leaving as is was there needs to be a difference between region mods and the light unl class or the promoters would just book the region class for less money. |
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Re: mods
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HP
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Doug, I agree, IF that region actually HAS a region mod class.
NTPA can't offer a region mod class in region 3 and 5. Unless a promoter is happy with 2 tractors at best. Only option for mods in regions 3 and 5 is the GN mod class. |
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Re: mods
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Registered: 07/13/2013 Posts: 76 |
I would rather see more state level organizations bring back the 5800 class. Single turbine, turbocharged Allison, twin chevys, or whatever unique combo somebody can dream up in their garage. |
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Re: mods
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Having National rule sets that differ drastically from state and regional rules is a sure fire way to kill those National classes. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: mods
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
The Light Class is currently on life-support. The vehicles are impressive, but to make no changes for a class that had 5 full timers doesn't seem like sound reasoning. Simons are selling at least one (if not both) of their Light Unlimiteds. Is anyone building one? I cannot see the logic of excluding turbines. I've brought this up before and not once has anyone ever given a good answer why turbines aren't allowed.
I'd love for PPL and NTPA to have the same rules, but I'd rather watch the NTPA rules than PPL rules. Boyds and Long this year made changes from event to event to run both. PPL had a dozen tractors run their class (11 at all of them and the yellow Bunnage mod at a couple). NTPA had more different vehicles hook in their heavy unlimited class (including the PPL tractors that hooked at NTPA events). My one wish for the NTPA class is some of the guys that only hook once a year (Ohl, Biers, and last year Urban) would be able to make more hooks.... and along with that I wish the class wasn't quite so Ohio-centric later in the year. I'd love to see an event with SN purse in the northeast and great plains area, but the purse would have to be high to justify the cost for the competitors. Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2018 04:26AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: mods
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LEWIS
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A better rule would be one of those classes no automotive engines allowed when youve seen one pile of Hems you seen them all the aircraft, army tank,turbine, and industrial engines are something to se |
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Re: mods
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EAB
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Well, as you know, they limit the turbines to a given HP to ensure they don't end up easily eliminating all other powerplants. Fair enough. Why they don't do that with the Hemi's is beyond me. |
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Re: mods
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
At this year's rules meetings the RN rules for the Turbines was changed to allow for more HP as well as changing the the blower wheel limits for the Allison tractors. The RN Allison tractors are also now allowed to run one turbocharged engine along with the other engine running the Allison supercharger. These changes were made to try and get these compinations to be more competitive.
As for the Hemi's we went through a lot of changes several years ago with overdrive restrictions. That is one reason that RN 3 and 5 don't have any mod tractors anymore. The guys that were running out there mostly had Hemi's and didn't want to make those changes. For years a group of mod pullers wanted to restrict the RN mods to two Hemi's vs three wedge tractors, the rules were never changed to that but because of other factors most of the Hemi guys went with two engines anyway. In recent years they have asked to reduce the blower overdrives on the twin Hemi's. Why do all pullers seem to be going to the so called cookie cutter Hemi tractors? Because they work plain and simple. Why build something that will struggle to compete when the cost are some high? I still believe that the three Chevy combination should beat the twin Hemi compinations...look at the last two RN Enderle results, it wasn't even close. As for the three Hemi setup, yes if someone runs one for the entire season it will win in most cases. S'no Farmer |
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Re: mods
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Do you really think that setting the standard so high for state and regional is a good thing. Do we really need 70000 $ engines and 250000$ tractor's for these shows do you honestly believe this will attract more competitors this is why LLSS and other lesser classes are picking up # and these big $ classes are dying. Big money look around you there are less of you all the time it's too bad we can't learn from the past |
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Re: mods
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
Lewis,take the hoods off of your LLSS and how different would they be? Don't get me wrong I like that class ,I was the one that made a motion to include them in HSTPA. You have four basic setups,Cummins,JD, IH and couple of Diesel tractors and under their skin they all look more alike than our Mods. We have Allisons,Chevys,Turbines and Hemi's. Why is your class more Interesting than ours? Just because they have different paint?
S'no Farmer |
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Re: mods
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Ohio Moonshiner
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I think the answer would be money. I can build a LLSS for $40K to $60K. To build a mod, $200k plus. Don’t get me wrong, I really like the mod class to the point that I would like to build one, but at the end of the day. I can’t afford the mod to be perfectly honest. But that’s why your seeing a lot of variety in the LLSS class cause it’s a fraction of the cost. Just my opinion... |
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Re: mods
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Chris Blackburn
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Little variety in llss? Lmao. It has the most diversity in all of the classes...cummins, ford, jd, ih, Waukesha, Perkins, Hercules, 4 cyl farmall m's 4 cyl Molines, allis Chalmers, duetz. I think alot of people have the misconceptions that if it isn't green or red it has a Cummins. Couldn't be further away from the truth. |
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Re: mods
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Thanks Chris, I completely agree, realistically the LLSS probably has twice the diversity in engine choices as the next closest class (probably the LSS would be next). It's one of the reasons why its such an awesome class. I'd love to see the Mod class(s) create more rules that allow/encourage more diversity. I agree with S'no Farmer, they've made some good changes to even the field regionally and I hope we see some of those rule changes have an impact in the next few years. The NTPA GN Light Mod would benefit by making changes as well. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: mods
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
Chris,as stated before I like the LLSS class but I get tired of the Mod class getting lambasted for being boring and nothing but cookie cutter. My point is that the LLSS class without hoods would all look alike. The basic size and dimensions are identical, they sound the same they are all inline 6 engines, they run the same tires ,they are all turbo charged and most of them are alcohol. Why is this any different than the Mod tractors? In the RN and State we have Hemi's,Chevy's,Allison's, as well as a number of different combinations of Turbine's. We have two engine tractors, three engine tractors, twin Allison's, three engine and four engine turbine tractors. We have three engines tractors with two up front and one behind, three engines in a row tractors and two engines side by side. |
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Re: mods
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I think 1 or 2 smaller engines on about 80 % nitromethane wouldn't be any more expensive to run and a hell of a lot more entertaining |
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Re: mods
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
If we line the tracks with 30' tall bulletproof glass I'd watch that class! Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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additives for track building
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And possibly focusing on the track building additives as well as mixing in better dirt at some tracks that need help to harness the current horsepower. Just a thought. I know that many builders use additives in the water truck (before the event to work the track). VP has one that some dirt tracks use and their are a couple more out there also. 
[vpracingfuels.com] 
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Re: Unlimited mods in ten years?
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Jack the weight on the heavies. No restrictions on the aircraft powerplants and let the V8's pack on as many as they want. Go with a class similar to the current mod class as the light division. Throw in an ultra-light single engine mod class. Maybe get some twd guys to jump over? |
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Re: Unlimited mods in ten years?
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Do you mean increase the weight? Sorry, but that is exactly the opposite of what the class needs. There have already been events that had the box completely full on the sled and they've barely been able to stop the Unlimited Mods. Adding weight would make it impossible to stop them on some tracks. Adding weight to the Unlimited Mod class would only increase operating costs. Can you imagine the breakage on a 7 hemi tractor with today's motors? What drivetrain could take that? What sled could take that? The horsepower needs to be decreased across the board in this sport... not increased. The endless quest for increased horsepower has been the biggest reason the cost of this sport has increased. Rising costs in pulling are NOT because of restrictions, but rather it's been because of a lack of logical restrictions. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Unlimited mods in ten years?
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watcher
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"Rising costs in pulling are NOT because of restrictions, but rather it's been because of a lack of logical restrictions." said Jake.
That is a huge 10-4 !!! I second Jake's motion. Now, if only PPL would have adapted NTPA's new Light PS rules, both organizations could have shared more tractors. But, oh, no, that would be too logical. |
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Re: Unlimited mods in ten years?
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No one is making them spend their money. The Unlimited class is the most powerful class in pulling, needs to stay that way, not regress! Did it ever dawn on you that it is pocket change to some of these guys? They enjoy doing it, I enjoy watching them, so leave it be. GN is not cheap, never has been. The answer is NOT making every rinky dink class a GN class. GN should be the best of the best. Everyone can't afford to run GN, more power to the ones that can! |
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Re: Unlimited mods in ten years?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
That's all well and good but the reality is that the Mod classes are shrinking because of the cost. The original question was where will the class be in 10 years. I don't think it will happen in 10 years but at some point in the future I could see it becoming an exhibition only class. I'm just not sure where the guys will come from that will be willing to spend the enormous amount of money it takes for the payout that available. I hope I'm wrong but I'm not optimistic for the future of the Mod classes. Coming from a Mod puller this may sound odd but I know how much I spend and I can tell you that it is nuts.
S'no Farmer |
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