01:40:44pm, Saturday, May 04, 2024
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DSS at Tomah
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Give me my money back
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What a joke the DSS class is.10 in the class and only half run and only 3 to past 200 feet. Come on get this mess fixed. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Team one
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I’m sure if you pay for all the parts and are willing to turn wrenches they’d be happy to have you help. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Fan
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Or maybe you should go up to those pullers in the class and say that to their face and see what they say to you.....maybe sign your name and post your address and demand that they send your money back that you so desperately need... |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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curious
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Just curious , what went on ? |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Registered: 03/30/2008 Posts: 191 |
5 broke the night before and were a scratch. Two more broke on the line yesterday. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Finding there limits and weak spots. Running beyond kill |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Just 1 more fan to Bruce b
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Bruce I see the red one was out at Tomah. Are you coming to Hutchinson with it. Please say yes.... |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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My Opinion
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Why dont you build one and show us how its done.. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Registered: 09/10/2018 Posts: 126 |
"Give me my money back" I take it you bought a ticket and or bought the live stream? Either or I agree with you 100%. As a diehard fan of this class myself, I feel absolutely horrible for the fans that took vacation time off of work, traveled many miles and spent hundreds of dollars to see a show like this! Tomah is one of the premiere events in the United States if not the world. To have less than 10 competitors in any class, is merely a exhibition at such a prestigious event like tomah! For all you telling "Give me my money back" that he should build one or spend his money and compete in the class, do you realize he/she is a fan???? It's very apparent that the ones giving backlash to " Give me my money back" have failed to realize pulling is a product/ entertainment. For a product/ entertainment to survive, it must strive to give the consumer (fan) a valuable show!! 10 in any class is NOT a valuable show! I did not attend nor did I buy the live stream but I've have followed superstocks like a religion for the better part of 42 years. It absolutely pains me to see what was so great dwindle to what it has become with the numbers it has today. Maybe just maybe if enough fans/ promoters/ sponsors stand up, take action and voice their concerns the classes like dss, uss and mods might be saved. Instead of everybody arguing, bashing and worrying about their own agenda, maybe somebody needs to put a committee together consisting of pullers, sponsors, promoters and fans to come up with some kinda direction for the future of the sport and it's classes. Ladies and gentlemen this sport at the National level is slowly killing itself and most are either to blind or only care about themselves to see it! Many many great men and women worked their asses off to build this sport we all love, let's not disappoint them. Let's give them something to be proud of!
Andy Girbach |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Team one
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To be fair there were 11 that showed up, yes over half of them broke but it’s not like the pullers showed up expecting that to happen, they left home expecting everything to be correct and to stay together, could some of them out more effort into making the second session? Maybe but for every ssd that showed up there are 2 sitting in the shed somewhere, so yes I see your point to some extent but I feel it would have been a good class without much breakage but what do you do? I haven’t seen more than 10 ssd in a class in years anywhere in any organization it seems like some people that own them find it easier to not run them at all. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Matt D
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Those old diesel supers are parked for a reason. They can't compete anymore. A good super farm would beat them. There are only 4 or 5 good diesel supers in the country. The rest are 75 to 100 feet behind. Not very exciting. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Registered: 09/10/2018 Posts: 126 |
Irregardless to why half the class couldn't make Saturday night session. The point is the fans got the short end of the stick. At some point the fans will turn their backs on this class or any class with low numbers and spend their entertainment $$ elsewhere! Promoters won't book a class if fans have no intrest! I live in Michigan and as a fan I've traveled to Lincoln Nebraska, Lexington alabama, tomah, Hamburg NY and many many others to s
Specifically to watch the superstock class. Never once did I ever feel "shorted" or disappointed by the number of entries or quality of the show! As I stated above previously, I feel horrible for the fans that went to tomah specifically to see the class and get what they got! I'm not pointing fingers nor am I laying blame but somebody needs to take charge and be a leader. All emotion and self agenda needs to be put aside for the betterment of this sport and it's classes with low numbers. I have no crystal ball or answers but how be damned will I set back and watch this sport I love implode without voicing my opinion! I've never have nor ever will care about being politically correct nor will I ever go with the status quo. I've been very very fortunate and lucky to have seen and live thru the "hayday" of pulling and all I care about is doing my part to keep it healthy! I want future generations of fans to see and feel the excitement that I once did when there was no shortage of equipment or quality of equipment. I live and die by the superstocks and mods but at some point change needs to happen and it better happen fast. They loose their fan base and it will be all over. If voicing my opinion and trying to make difference for the future of the sport and classes I love makes me a a$$hole then I'll gladly wear that badge with honor! Andy Girbach |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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In the know....
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So they run them dss hard as HELL.. right to the edge or maybe even over it. There are still pullers FARMING OR as some would call it making a living. I have personally talked to a few guys that are STILL getting crops in the ground. Yes I am sure when these guys got to tomah they all got together and drew straws to see who would break.... Really come on.. I love the dss class and yes it sucks that it was a poor showing but it happens...... I Jeremy Miller |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Posts: 1,162 |
There were 4 or 5 tractors that would have been there if the season wasn't so wet for farming or weren't waiting on parts. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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longtimer
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Yes, Brent, we know that. That is not the point. But some of those likely tractors, Brent, most likely, if an IH, also feature the curable, non-destructive Hypermax block that was supposed to have been the cure all for this class because the pullers would never have to push this block to the max. Yeah, right ! That was a great snow job, sell job !!
But, hey, overall, the big names in the DSS do not want engine limits. So, its just a matter of who has the biggest wallet. So, in a week, we will see who spent the big bucks and thrashed lots of effort to get to pull at Hutch. Andy Girbach, preach it. You and I both remember the number and quality of Michigan SS's. That sure is a bygone era. But, then that can be said about any given state. Yes, no doubt, sad to see. Especially when NTPA was literally born a half century ago, upon the Super Stock tractor class. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Registered: 09/10/2018 Posts: 126 |
Longtimer, less than 1 year ago at Napoleon ohio GN DSS hook there was 10 tractors. 3 of which were state tractors. 1 from ohio and 2 from michigan. Those 3 went to help support the class and give it some numbers! Bless their hearts for doing that otherwise it would have been a 7 tractor GN class!!!! Just a couple years back there was only 3-5 at hudsonville GN Show. I had full intentions to going to Napoleon last year considering I only live a hour away but at 5pm I got a text that only 7 GN tractors were there so didn't waste my time going. Let's also not forget few years back at Ioina michigan GN hook only a handful of GN tractors showed up, they called the 2 state tractors and begged them to come for numbers. State guys had no intentions of going but at the last minute they loaded up and went to help fill the show. Absolutely amazes me that people don't see a problem nor do they realize this problem has existed for quite some time!
Let me give this scenario. Say people ( fans) buy tickets to a concert. Those fans plan around the concert date to see this band. Mind you the people saved, adjusted their schedule and more than likely took time off work. With all that being said the fans get to the concert and only half the band shows up! The concert goes (fans) would loose their minds. Now say that same band did that show after show after show. Before you could snap your fingers that band would be out of business and no promoter would book them again!! It's unfortunate but pulling is no different than a concert. It's pure and simple entertainment always has been always will be!! Why some people in pulling don't understand that they can and will be replaced by a concert or other motorsports event is totally beyond me. Andy Girbach |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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My Opinion
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If this were only a 1 class pull and only 4 DSS tractors hooked I'd be mad too.....However,this was a 6 class pull of quality pullers with 104 total hooks....No one got totally short changed...There were 18 hard running 10 Pros there which in my area alone would be worth the price of admission......I and many others dont go to a pull just for one class...Sometimes thats going to lead to disappointment... This is an extreme weather year like never seen in modern times..Everyone is way behind on the farming and more than one DSS wasn't there because of this..If I had one I wouldn't have been there....Lots of corn is under 12 inches tall and some beans remain to be planted,etc...Sometimes making a living has to come ahead of pulling.....Even Blagraves couldn't make it because they were behind with the farming and hadn't had time to look the pullers over....There will be more than 11 DSS at BG...Those DSS that broke at Tomah would have loved to have hooked on Saturday night.. I live in an area where I'd have to drive more than 300 miles just to see 5-6 DSS and 9-10 heavy Pros and thats if they were all together..Yes,the DSS class has a problem with numbers at some pulls but it may be too late to fix it.. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Tractor Show
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The reason it is going to fail is because it is no longer a competition, and is turning in to a show / product for entertainment only. And like you are saying , there is no good reason for SHOW tractors to be breaking. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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1/2 Full Glass drinker,....
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On a brighter note,...the 10 Pros put on a couple great classes
And that class has been dying for 15 years  or at least that's published on here that way..
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Look at the number of Pros now compare to 15 years ago. No comparison. It's also gone to a majority of Big Block John Deere. It's also gettting BBJD engines under the hoods of IH and MM tractors. It's also gone component. All things that were predicted here and people all said would never happen. They happened. Is the PS class staying steady with numbers? Nope. Is it growing? Nope. That's right, it's declining. I agree with Andy Girbach, the DSS class has been hurting for years now and the NTPA has refused to make any significant change. The class is not only cost prohibitive but it's also maintenance prohibitive and there are very very few guys with the skill/desire/expertise/time/money to run the circuit. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Pllnfn
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I agree with you Jake. To my memory, the DSS class has been about 12 per session for 10-15 years with a good number of them being local. And with the pro stocks, the way I remember it was Tomah in about 2002 or so, seeing a class of 52 pro stocks. I could be wrong on the number, maybe it was more like 32 but I remember it as 52 pro stocks. It was an awesome show. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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dying 2 know,.....
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Can you name a class with at least 3000 HP between the frame rails that has added numbers at the National level ? |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
The Light Pro isn't a national class but it's adding numbers. The Light Super Stock class isn't growing numbers nationally but there are new ones being built. I can't think of many National classes adding numbers whether they have 1600 HP or 3000. Personally I don't care about the national classes specifically, I care about the classes in general at all levels, not just on a national circuit. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Registered: 03/17/2019 Posts: 65 |
Go ahead dont put limits on anything. That's been the attitude so far. how has that worked out for all the grand national classes? There has to be a course correction soon or all the big classes will be down to just exabition classes. It's not just the cost evan if you can afford it look at the pure work and time these poor guys go threw and we're not getting any younger. the average fan in the grand stands ( with the proper sled settings) cant tell the difference between 2500 hp supers and a 4500 hp super. It is not only a super stock problem. Wake up and do something soon or it will be gone. It will take guts and great strength to fix these problems feelings will be hurt egos bruised but the alternative is the end of the original class that started pulling |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I'm not sure if that response we directed toward me but, there's nothing I've written more about than putting limits on classes. If you go back and read my old Opinion articles they are all about limits to keep this motorsport alive. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Registered: 03/17/2019 Posts: 65 |
Mr Morgan there was no intent to slander you or your comments. I to am all for some sort of restructuring in the super stock class but I'm afraid they will kill it off first . Too many egos with big check books |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Registered: 03/17/2019 Posts: 65 |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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What is the status of the Lock n Load Burge DSS? |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Posts: 1,162 |
Waiting on parts Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Curt P
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Are Schrameks pulling this year? |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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5288
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Yes, but mostly with the Outlaws. Staying close to home. |
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Hutch Pull
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Registered: 07/27/2017 Posts: 184 |
So how excited should everyone be to pay to watch 6 Semi's, 4-8 DSS's and probably 15ish Pro Stocks? It's too bad there isn't a 4.1 or SF class at Hutchinson. With the low numbers/breakage in DSS and Semi classes, it would be nice to have another diesel class. |
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Re: Hutch Pull
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5288
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I guess they will have to play YMCA about 6 times and have 3 intermissions so the pull won't get over until after 11:00. |
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Re: Hutch Pull
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Semi puller
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First off the reason to stay up all night and work on stuff isnt that good needs to be a little more in the kitty so don't blame the diesel supers or the semis and it doesn't appear that anything is ever going to change. Also on a side note if they keep running the pull off in a small class of trucks or diesel supers the number is only going to get smaller in the class. Don'tDon't blame the competito |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Here's one Jake,....
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One of their DSS chassis is currently at Engler getting ready for a 10 Pro setup!
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Posts: 1,162 |
It looks amazing too! Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Shramek fam
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What color is it going to be? |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
Staying Orange, at least the tinwork is, and yes, it'll look awesome
CP |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Registered: 03/17/2019 Posts: 65 |
I'll take stamp collecting |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Suggesterator
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How about you all travel to a PPL Champions tour pull to watch a DSS class?
Oops, they don't have that class on Champions tour. How many good running DSS you going to see at an Outlaw pull? You die hard DSS fans will either have to realize your future is PROSTOCK class, or stamp collecting. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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History Lessoner
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Helen Keller advised PPL to not start a DSS class,...…………….back in 2006......…. 
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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I agree
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They need limits so GN, Regionals and others will be closer together before this class is toast. I thought NTPA was going to fix this class a few years ago and even asked Doug Roberts to help. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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5288
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I would rather watch 10-20 prostocks compete on the track than watch half a dozen dss attempt to make is passed 200'. As exciting as it is to see these machines get damaged, I sure feel sorry for the crews that worked all the long nights on their tractors just to see them go up in smoke. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Registered: 06/30/2008 Posts: 186 |
If I could win the lottery, I would have this all figured out. I would gladly make 3 DSS machines and I already have my drivers lined up; they are currently 13, 10, and 8. Its only money. People who want to pull don't have it to make a vehicle. People who have been pulling and have gotten out need more of it to stay in. People who are currently pulling are seeing it fly out the window faster than the influx of sponsorships and prize winnings. It has been often said a puller must have deep pockets to simply get on the track (not necessarily to be competitive). Even getting on the track at a non-competitive level, they are still doing something I would love to do and of course there is a spot of envy there. I understand what the OP said and his intent, but as I am raising a young family, I am very thankful for those competitors who arrive at the shows I get to go to, providing me a short break from life as I know it, and losing money all the while. I couldn't do it although I would love to. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Just a few questions...
If the DSS class was to be limited in some way (turbo, pump, etc...), what happens when the PS tractors have noticeably more power? If we limit the DSS class do we also limit the PS class? Or do we simply allow the PS tractors to still jump in the class and beat-up on the limited DSS. If they don't limit PS too, what's the point of the DSS class? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Team one
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Like it or not , that’s one of the reasons there isn’t limits on SSD if we limit them do we put 24.5s on them too? |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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M Hasbeen
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Now you're talking... put DSS and PS together. Multichargers at 540 cubes vs single chargers at 680. Let them all put 30's on, won't certainly hurt the PS. Make the class 8500#. Then NTPA drop the alckys, they'll move to PPL. |
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Re: DSS at Tomah
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Some thoughts: Exhibition classes usually have only 2 or 3 vehicles. Back in the day, Cope/Skoal we didn't run Pro Stocks many times at GNPC events due to small numbers. ESPN TV days 15 hooks in a class was the normal. FWD truck classes were 25 plus ALL the time, now TWD has the numbers. Mod classes were fading, DAve Banter was retiring and "what are we gonna do?" Banter told me back in the day that every couple of years numbers go up and down. In the last couple of decades that is the fact. For most promoters 10 to 15 in a class is great. A show is less than 3 hours long. Gone are the days of ending a pull past midnight due to huge numbers. So if you pulling fans that like only 1 class and pay to go see 1 class, do you leave the pull when that class is finished? This year GNPC session numbers have been effected by rain. However, in the classes contested, the competition has been very stout. No one has walked away with points races. Weather and economy are factors outside of a promoters control. As we approach the half way mark of the year, it's hope that pullers don't have to wait on parts, that weather cooperates and that competition remains close. Back in the day, purse payouts were 16 places in almost every class and many went home without a check. Many state level competitors would hang by the entry trailer to see who was going to show up, if less than 16 they would enter. Rules should stay consistent. This year is something of an anamoly due to the weather. Hope the back half of the season is better for all.... |
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