DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 28, 2019 01:04PM
What can you say about it. Next week look for 2 tractors and the week after 1. Gee I wonder who's gonna win the championship.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 28, 2019 03:00PM
Splitting the SS class sure has been great! "Just wait, they'll both grow..." "Just give it some time..." So I was told many, many times. Sure is working great. I was against the split in the beginning and I've continued to lobby to get the classes back together. There are some guys in either class that are willing to give it a shot but there are still a few thick headed and stubborn guys that are willing to cut off their noses to spit their faces. Either they can't see the problem or they are just pretending that it isn't there.

Dear DSS pullers, you're going to go crawling back the the Alcohol guys if you're not careful. Sure you still have lots of interest from promotes, but they're buying your class on legacy, and not actual product. Those days might end sooner rather than later. In a perfect world you put on a good show but your numbers at the top tier are extremely limited, as are the Alcohol tractors. Make it work together for the good of the fans and to keep both classes from dying on the national level.

I sincerely wish that Jody and Colin would jump in the Open Super class this summer and see how they do. Give the world some baseline data to start towards a reconciliation.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 28, 2019 03:07PM
Sorry, I forgot to attach the results from Hutchinson...


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 28, 2019 04:05PM
Look at all of the new classes in the last decade. They aren't just made up of new pullers, it's usually guys switching classes. When new classes start, old ones fade away. Maybe limits can save the dss class, maybe not. If the smokers want to run against the Ally's, that's fine. But don't start changing the alky rules to accommodate them.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 03:58AM
Jake, I have always believed, as you do, that the two super stock classes should be combined. There has to be a way. One of the issue to consider, I think, with the three competing, major organizations, if one would limit a class, the other or two would welcome those disgruntled pullers from the limiting organization with open arms. There is competing interests at the organizational level between the Big Three, think profitability, prestige, etc. So, that is definitely something that headquarters have to consider. It is a complex situation with no simple answer. On another note--I see on here continuously that there are many SS tractors sitting in sheds or not pulling at the national level. Well, I would think now would be the time for those to show if they really want to pull. With only two or three "big hitting" DSS making it down the track, heck one of these "old school" DSS could garner a fourth or fifth placing, check, and points and pull. So, the question begs, "why aren't they?" In no way am I meaning any disrespect for anyone, but asking in response to a lot of the naysayers regarding the DSS class. JW
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 04:49AM
A combined class of SSO/SSD will easily have 1000 HP differential. That's not a class that's affirmative action. Jake are you a liberal?

On a second note,......GN SSO schedule 2019= 6 hooks total. That's not a championship schedule,....that's participation trophy championship schedule.

On a third note,.....that PS class last night was excellent...………….Drinking
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 05:16AM
Nope, I'm a libertarian. Not a true libertarian, but a conservative leaning libertarian if you must know. There are ton's and tons of combo classes that are making it work. Some because of fuel, and some because of number of turbos. This is a spectator sport and the goal is to put on the best show possible. I think combining the classes will put on the best show. I also think that Galot and Bypass are much closer than many people think.

As for 1000 HP difference. Are you sure about that? Some of the dyno numbers I'm hearing put some of the alcohol guys are right near 5000 and I'm hearing that Bypass might not be too far from that. The DSS also have a big torque advantage. The top PS might not even be 1000 off of the the top alcohol guys now days.

You can speculate that it would be a bad show but we won't know until they try it.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ July 01, 2019 05:15AM
Thats the problem, its a spectator sport, not a competition.
You want everything for the spectator, but you don't care about the pullers.
You want colors but you don't want to see which color builds the strongest tractor.
You don't want to see which competitor can do better, if one guy gets ahead whether it be by earning more money at his day job or
knowing how to build a stronger tractor you want to handicap him so its "Fair" for every one.
If Green cant compete head to head we need to handicap all the others.
If red cant keep up we need to handicap all the others, on and on.
The competitors want to win, and they want to win as much as possible, they are there to win, not get second place.
These guys are working 24/7 at their day job and then putting a pulling tractor on the track in their spare time.
The spectators seem to want to see a bunch of shiny tractors go down the track and a different one win every time?
The SSD /SSO guys are the best of the best, they are playing at a different level.
But the spectators seem to prefer quantity over quality.
You would rather see 30 weak tractors go down the track, than see 5 of the best of the best go head to head.
We always want to drag the top down to every one else's level so its "Fair" for every one else that don't want to work as hard.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ July 01, 2019 05:49AM
Quote
Spectator sport
Thats the problem, its a spectator sport, not a competition.
You want everything for the spectator, but you don't care about the pullers.
You want colors but you don't want to see which color builds the strongest tractor.
You don't want to see which competitor can do better, if one guy gets ahead whether it be by earning more money at his day job or
knowing how to build a stronger tractor you want to handicap him so its "Fair" for every one.
If Green cant compete head to head we need to handicap all the others.
If red cant keep up we need to handicap all the others, on and on.
The competitors want to win, and they want to win as much as possible, they are there to win, not get second place.
These guys are working 24/7 at their day job and then putting a pulling tractor on the track in their spare time.
The spectators seem to want to see a bunch of shiny tractors go down the track and a different one win every time?
The SSD /SSO guys are the best of the best, they are playing at a different level.
But the spectators seem to prefer quantity over quality.
You would rather see 30 weak tractors go down the track, than see 5 of the best of the best go head to head.
We always want to drag the top down to every one else's level so its "Fair" for every one else that don't want to work as hard.

Just remember WHY there is a SSD and SSO today! Can you name any Alky guys that wanted to split the SS class either before or after the alcohol tractors found the setup?
Hint: Isn't wasn't the spectators!
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 10:11AM
Only 6 hooks in the Open class, I doubt many diesel guys will be "crawling" back to that! You want Ross to run against the alky's, what about the rest that are 30' behind Ross? What are they supposed to do? This class has been "supposedly" dying for 10 or 15 years, it is still a very good show when they are able to be there. Glad they are at The Fort this year!
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Rachner June 28, 2019 05:02PM
Why does it say 0 for Rachner? Thought he went like 294.

Also, doesn't help that 3 of the best running DSS were in Texas tonight. DSS has plenty of flaws, but that is a class that needs to be together to put on a good show.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 03:07AM
I don't know if it was a timing thing with running 2 tracks, but some of the PS guys could have jumped over and brought home an extra paycheck.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 04:22AM
So here’s a question that is kind of a double edge sword, what is worse the loyal tractors showing up running hard and possibly breaking? Or half of the “pre commit” tractors not showing up at all? In my opinion the ones that don’t and can’t show up are more detrimental than the breakage, the class is small mainly for that reason for the ones that show up atleast they are out there trying and offer some entertainment value the class needs loyalty more than anything.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 04:30AM
Let's not be so quick to point the finger. Maybe some of these guys are tending to business? We know Lock-N-Load is waiting for parts. We know Bone Twister had breakage at Tomah. Oldens haven't made it out yet, but they have to drive half way across the country, maybe they're busy? Blagraves are busy and pulled outlaws this weekend. Shrameks pulled outlaws and so did Roger Peterson.

It hasn't been an easy year weather wise for anybody. Can't fault people if they don't have parts or if they are taking care of the business that allows them to pull.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2019 04:31AM by NewGen4010.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 04:55AM
Yes, weather, parts, crops, busy... all play a factor. Maybe this year is the perfect storm, or maybe, just maybe it's just exposing what the true problem has been for a while now. The problem is that there still aren't enough guys to split the class. There are different reasons every single year as to why the numbers are bad in both the Diesel Super and Open Super. The numbers have been consistently bad since the class split. There just aren't that many guys who are willing to make the commitment necessary to have two separate classes.

I completely agree with grubby that guys have jumped into new classes. The Light Pro and Limited Pro both have a number of guys who have either jumped from Pro Stock or Jumped from DSS. Personally, I think the Light Pro might be the best diesel powered class right now with the best set of rules. Some pullers complain about limits, but yet the classes with tighter limits seem to be the ones that are growing.

As for rule changes, I don't care what it takes to get the top tractors of either fuel to be competitive with each other. If it takes 500 lbs, an inch of drawbar, nothing at all, etc... I just want both the Diesel Super Stock and the Open Super Stock classes to disappear and I want it to be a unified Super Stock class again. I has to be a top-down rule change that takes the best of the best and pits them against each other, right now that's Galot and Bypass.

I'm sick of hearing that it will grow, or it's the weather, or people are busy. Those things happen every year and if they can't fill either class then just have one class and make it work because it's a terrible show right now. It's truly a shame because both classes have some great talent and excellent competitors. Both the pullers and the fans are getting short changed.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 05:08AM
I think running them together is a pipe dream. If you limit the alcohol guys, they will be mad, and for good reason. If you leave it wide open, the diesel guys won't show up because they can't hang in there. I don't see how they can coexist.

I think in a perfect world, we would just run all the DSS together. Look at last night, you had your best running DSS split between Hutch and Texas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2019 05:14AM by NewGen4010.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 05:35AM
The diesel guys aren't showing up now so whats the difference?

If Colin or Jody jumped into a Open SS class and ran hard and made their usual picture perfect pass like they do in the DSS class I'd put my money where my mouth is and bet that they would finish within the top three. If they won the hook I wouldn't be the least bit shocked. Lock and Load would have gotten second in the open class at BG a few years ago, but instead made a test pass with the same sled setting immediately after the Open class ended. Let me restate that, they would have gotten second place, 2nd, 2ND in the Open Super class. That's at the largest pull in the world, an NTPA Super National event where everyone alcohol tractor was set on kill to try to win the ring.

They can coexist, they did for year and years. The problem was the NTPA didn't step in and make any changes to allow both fuels to be competitive. One technology advanced quickly and the NTPA sat on their thumbs. The DSS guys were running 436 and 466 motors with IH blocks and 200 lbs or boost while the alcohol guys were at 600 and 650 CID. The tables have turned in the last 5 years and the DSS guys have pushed the technology, boost, and HP needle faster than the alcohol guys and they gained back some serious ground (The Hypermax block has allowed them to push insane boost numbers).


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 05:40AM
I definitely hear what you are saying and I agree people are very busy but on the other hand if you don’t have time to make it happen don’t pre commit at the grand national level, offering a full (although low numbered) per committed class is one thing but how do promote that ? Yeah we have 10-12 to offer and book the class and 5-6 show up ? That just doesn’t work for long that’s why I say breakage is only half the issue.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 06:08AM
You all seem to be missing one major point. Ntpa is losing pullers in most of their classes. What have they done to fix it? The purse at Tomah hasn't changed in 25 years. How come nobody thinks that's a problem. Ppl super stock numbers are fine. The ntpa needs to realize they aren't the only game in town anymore. Every other pull in the country was cancellee the week if tomah, didn't really see a whole lot of guys there that could have been
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 06:27AM
Yep. It doesn't raise any red flags that a guy who lives 10 miles from Hutch, took his Super Stock to Texas instead? Like you said, NTPA should probably realize they aren't the only show anymore.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 08:57AM
Simply put, the risk is no longer worth the reward to pull with the NTPA. There were only 57 hooks at Hutch last night and about 15 of the competitors were not precommited and 9 precommitted vehicles were not there. And like what was said, Why would someone drive all the way across the country to pull than attend a pull 20 minutes away from their house?
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 10:11AM
Little confused what you are trying to say 79er you say the smith and schrier ran hyper parts in there deeres not sure how esdon and the rest of the red tractors ruined the dss class when hyper parts are being run in all colors. And with the sheetmetal rules you can run a hyper block in any color of sheetmetal but it doesnt seem to increase numbers. the fact is not a lot of people have 200,000$ to build a heavy super. someday there are going to be 2 smoke clesses PS and LPS and two noise classes to choose from Mini and Twd. and the rest will be exhibition kinda like the monster trucks were 30 years ago when they would be at pulls for exhibition runs.\
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 12:23PM
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tbj999
Little confused what you are trying to say 79er you say the smith and schrier ran hyper parts in there deeres not sure how esdon and the rest of the red tractors ruined the dss class when hyper parts are being run in all colors. And with the sheetmetal rules you can run a hyper block in any color of sheetmetal but it doesnt seem to increase numbers. the fact is not a lot of people have 200,000$ to build a heavy super. someday there are going to be 2 smoke clesses PS and LPS and two noise classes to choose from Mini and Twd. and the rest will be exhibition kinda like the monster trucks were 30 years ago when they would be at pulls for exhibition runs.\

DPS relationship with LaGod came in front of what was best for the sport. Esdon is his son in law. The any motor any sheet metal rule was a terrible band aid for allowing the Hyper block in the first place. Yes the red guys have screwed it up for that class. It was the red guys who pushed for the Hyper rule. Designing the 540 rule to specifically fit the 540 Hyper set up. When no other colors were allowed after market parts the red guys had em via Hyper.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 02:17PM
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1979er

Little confused what you are trying to say 79er you say the smith and schrier ran hyper parts in there deeres not sure how esdon and the rest of the red tractors ruined the dss class when hyper parts are being run in all colors. And with the sheetmetal rules you can run a hyper block in any color of sheetmetal but it doesnt seem to increase numbers. the fact is not a lot of people have 200,000$ to build a heavy super. someday there are going to be 2 smoke clesses PS and LPS and two noise classes to choose from Mini and Twd. and the rest will be exhibition kinda like the monster trucks were 30 years ago when they would be at pulls for exhibition runs.\

DPS relationship with LaGod came in front of what was best for the sport. Esdon is his son in law. The any motor any sheet metal rule was a terrible band aid for allowing the Hyper block in the first place. Yes the red guys have screwed it up for that class. It was the red guys who pushed for the Hyper rule. Designing the 540 rule to specifically fit the 540 Hyper set up. When no other colors were allowed after market parts the red guys had em via Hyper.

John Deere had the same opportunity as Jerry did to develop high horsepower engine components,...……………..John chose not tooSmoking
John Deere had a large displacement factory block (531) back when Supers ran 3 weight classes,...…………….Jerry didn't have that luxury from Harvester,...…..
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 29, 2019 11:55PM
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Awe come on seventy niner,...


Little confused what you are trying to say 79er you say the smith and schrier ran hyper parts in there deeres not sure how esdon and the rest of the red tractors ruined the dss class when hyper parts are being run in all colors. And with the sheetmetal rules you can run a hyper block in any color of sheetmetal but it doesnt seem to increase numbers. the fact is not a lot of people have 200,000$ to build a heavy super. someday there are going to be 2 smoke clesses PS and LPS and two noise classes to choose from Mini and Twd. and the rest will be exhibition kinda like the monster trucks were 30 years ago when they would be at pulls for exhibition runs.\

DPS relationship with LaGod came in front of what was best for the sport. Esdon is his son in law. The any motor any sheet metal rule was a terrible band aid for allowing the Hyper block in the first place. Yes the red guys have screwed it up for that class. It was the red guys who pushed for the Hyper rule. Designing the 540 rule to specifically fit the 540 Hyper set up. When no other colors were allowed after market parts the red guys had em via Hyper.

John Deere had the same opportunity as Jerry did to develop high horsepower engine components,...……………..John chose not tooSmoking
John Deere had a large displacement factory block (531) back when Supers ran 3 weight classes,...…………….Jerry didn't have that luxury from Harvester,...…..

What about the DV550?
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 30, 2019 02:16AM
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1979er
What about the DV550?






Grinning Laydown noted! lol
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 30, 2019 03:24AM
Big shock here, blame the demise of a class on Jerry LaGod, seems to be a common occurrence with people who could never keep up with his stuff. All he was doing is providing a product that the market wanted. There was hardly any green left in the class before the block came about anyway. Why hasn’t any of the green loyalists committed to a BB program for the class since all of you seem to believe to be such a superior piece. It sucks the class is where it’s at but to blame on one guy is just ignorance! The pro stocks will be in the same situation within 5-10 years
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You have to go way back in time and start at the beginning June 29, 2019 09:04AM
You have to go back to DPS and his relationship with Jerry LaGod. Dave ran hyper parts in his JD, same as Kenny and Mike Smith. When Dave took over WPI the relationship continued in the form of sponsorship. The IH guys have always had an advantage of aftermarket parts from Hyper. Fast forward to 2006 or 7. Neil Gettinger protested Esdon at Ft. Recovery. Esdon had the Hyper block was told to change it, instead of changing he boycotted NTPA for a year and as a result the Hyper block was allowed. NTPA then lost a life time supporter in Gettinger and the class became all red. You gave one brand a huge advantage and no other brands at the time were allowed a billet block or aftermarket block. Thus started the push for billet blocks that was eventually passed. The problem in the DSS class lies solely at the feet of WPI/NTPA. If you look at the NTPA board, with the exception of Tim Cain, nobody on the board has a clue about tractor classes. You need to have a de-tune/build to year, or keep burying your head in the damNed sand and continue to watch it die. Doing nothing though hasn’t proved to be to successful. Regulating turbos isn’t going to work in a diesel class. You can look at the LPS class and see regulating the turbo has done nothing. The guys that were kicking A$$ and taking names still are (shout out to Clarksville Ohio’s finest pullers) if you want to get it under control regulate the amount of fuel they can get to the motor.
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Re: You have to go way back in time and start at the beginning June 29, 2019 04:53PM
I have been saying pump limitations for a long time and the only bullheaded excuse is always your not going to fool with my pump. If you only have a limited amount of fuel you can only make so much power. realistic super stock limitations are 30 yrs over due and I'm afraid too late .by doing nothing and having no for site they have just about killed the original tractor class. It's a good thing guys like dale kohl john klug dicky Sullivan Marshall Myers. Are all dead because they would have been very disappointing the men that worked so hard to mark this class great
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Future of combined supers June 30, 2019 08:58AM
I agree that bringing the two classes together would be great for the fans and getting more numbers. Nothing is better to get the crowd into the pull than smoke vrs alcohol.

I feel the problem will be that the alcohol has by far the biggest advantage. Yes a dss like Ross running on absolute kill could get within 20 feet of an alcohol on the right track.

Alcohol motors do not break nearly as much as a DSS. Smokers run 300+ pounds of boost. Diesels inject their fuel while the piston is still on it's way up. Every component needs to be over built to handle this kind of stress and cylinder pressure. Alcohol motors do not need that kind of air to make power, they also spark the fire just as the piston is around tdc.

The other big advantage is traction control. Almost all top running alcohol motors use traction control. Diesel pumps do not have that kind of technology. Diesel motors can control it with electronic water valves to slow the motor. A lot of diesel guys use their extra electric controlled water to as a safety measure when temps get too hot. But water valves would not work as well as the alcohol traction control. All of these are also illegal! But very hard to police. And honestly should be allowed. It saves a motor from over revving or getting to hot and melting down.

So to get the two classes even and competitive there needs to be limits. Obviously DSS is on a crash course of destruction! And if you limit them you have to limit the alcohol to the same level of power and driveability!

Restricting fuel plungers on a diesel seems like it could work! Not sure how you would limit the alcohol fuel. Or if it would even be a good idea.

Restricting turbo sizes could work. It would take some time finding the right way to limit the two and be competitive. I think turbo technology will keep advancing and this would not be the cheap route. I personally don't like the turbo limit ideas. Super stock should have no turbo or manifold limits in my mind.

Another way could be to limit cubes! Let everything else as is, and limit the cubes back down to where they started. You get it small enough you limit the valve size. You can only fit so much air past a small valve. Say somewhere around 400 cube limit. 505 is obviously too big. Esdon can make destructive power at 505 cubes!!! And if the cubes drop back down could it open the possibility of getting more color back in the class!?

Engine builders and pullers need to get together and make a set of limits and bring the two classes back together. This would not be easy and will upset a lot of pullers. And let the classes run as is to destroy what's left of their non limited engines. And say in 2 years everyone would have to be compliant with the new limits.

I think the supers need to look to the horizon and build for the future.

That's my rant for the day. Now it's time for a beer!!!
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 30, 2019 05:00PM
Take region 3 as an example of what WILL happen when you combine diesel and alcohol SS.
When they got re-combined, no DSS show up. Only alcohol. Period. End of discussion.
As for PPL not having problems with SS showing up,,,,,,,,, show me ONE DSS pulling on Champions tour.
I will wait.
I rest my case,,,,,,,,,,,
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ June 30, 2019 05:55PM
Only 7 unlimiteds Friday and 6 Saturday. Just got worse.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ July 01, 2019 11:54AM
I might be mistaken but I am pretty sure traction control is illegal and I didn’t think you could diesel on the champions tour because it was illegal
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ July 01, 2019 12:32PM
Wonder why those tractors have 4 calipers 2 master cylinders,...……….and a 12V pump...........Eye Rolling
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ July 01, 2019 01:43PM
Well 2 master cylinders would be for a left and right brake, sooooooo there’s that. The second set of calipers and 12v pump would be for a “line lock” setup. The second set are pumped up to a desired PSI and then are released either by timed bleed off or some have a hand button that they hold down and release when they want to disengage the brakes. This is totally different than traction control. TC is hooked up to wheel slip sensors and self adjusts PSI and disengagement through computer control. Line locks are still all controlled by the driver who decides when to use them, how hard to engage them, and when to release it. Line locks have been discussed at several PPL and NTPA meetings before and were deemed legal.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ July 01, 2019 11:43PM
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BetterBrakesBuster
Well 2 master cylinders would be for a left and right brake, sooooooo there’s that. The second set of calipers and 12v pump would be for a “line lock” setup. The second set are pumped up to a desired PSI and then are released either by timed bleed off or some have a hand button that they hold down and release when they want to disengage the brakes. This is totally different than traction control. TC is hooked up to wheel slip sensors and self adjusts PSI and disengagement through computer control. Line locks are still all controlled by the driver who decides when to use them, how hard to engage them, and when to release it. Line locks have been discussed at several PPL and NTPA meetings before and were deemed legal.


If the line lock psi is released manually,...………..why the need for a 12V pump? Eye Rolling

Has any tractor with a 12V pump ever had the "manual" release valve inspected?? Eye Rolling

Wheel speed sensors,....ground speed sensor,......boost sensor,.....rpm sensor,......water injection psi sensor,.....all tied to the 12V pump psi sensor Smoking

So now go ahead and tell me I need to protest to find out,....Confused

If you are not following what I'm saying,....it's pretty simple,....the 12V pump is the sum of the problem. Cool
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ July 02, 2019 12:23AM
Can you provide any proof or evidence this is happening? What are they using to control such a system as I am not aware of anything that can do such a thing for diesels. You don’t just hook sensors to a pump and BAMB “traction control”. I know people made claims that the TS data loggers could do it, but I don’t know that it was ever confirmed.

Your argument is a 12v pump, but that’s just so a guy doesn’t have to visibly sit on the line and pump up a hand pump, giving away to all the other pullers that he is going to use it. It also is just more convenient to simply hold down a button with your thumb.

I know some guys run a 12v pump with a thumb button for water injection and manually control it. Engage when leaving the line and let off when you spin in. Are these also being used for traction control?

Basically, your only reasoning for thinking people are cheating is “because it’s hooked to the battery”. Solid.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ July 02, 2019 11:34AM
If anybody thinks that we dont have the technology to perform traction control on a brake fuel or ignition system, then you are fooled. Yes traction control is illegal in the NTPA. Easy to eliminate by outlawing any brake system that has electrical connections. Eliminate electronic devices that can accomplish any type of traction control through breaking, rpm limiting, fuel, or whatever can effect traction. However you will never see this happen again, illegal in NTPA but not enforced for fear of making someone mad . Because the big organizations are like our elected officials. Too much politics and not enough common sense.
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ July 02, 2019 12:31PM
^in the know actually does know!^

Beer 30!
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Re: DSS . Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ☹️ July 02, 2019 12:36PM
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WheresTheProof
Basically, your only reasoning for thinking people are cheating is “because it’s hooked to the battery”. Solid.


You deny the simple fact that a 12v pump system can maintain PSI on the calipers or the input shaft indefinitely? How about maintain PSI with pulses,....you know like the technology we've had for years called ABS,...……….is it not electronically controlledConfused,.....why yes it is electronically controlledEye Popping,.....so yes if the tractor has a 12V system pumping brake fluid,..... it is totally possible to have ABS on the drive line. But go ahead and deny the obvious,.....because the tractors with 12V brake fluid pumps will never be inspected,......doesn't remove the fact that they should,...………...Cool
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