06:07:47pm, Sunday, April 28, 2024
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Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 09/13/2014 Posts: 155 |
I didn't realize how many organizations were not allowing suspended front axles in the LLSS class. I knew Ohio, but I didn't realize B.O.B
didn't allow them, either. How many sanctioning bodies actually do not allow them? I thought they were becoming more readily accepted. I know some like them, some are against them, but I really don't see the issue. I know people try to argue that they can alter hitch height, but the math has already been done on here, and it's negligible. Maybe it's to keep the cost of the class down? Not really working... I like the protection it offers the front end on a hard drop. And yes, I've seen the testing, the smoother front end landing, keeps the rear tires from unweighting, and keeps power delivery and traction more consistent. I don't think that's a bad thing... I'm just curious as to why clubs are against them, and how many do not allow them. And actually, did it affect the travel series? |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 02/19/2009 Posts: 526 |
We voted it in last winter, but only have one tractor that is using it. I think alot has to do with the extra weight, but the weight is up front but it's not moveable . |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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!!!!!?????
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I know of 2 tractors that would of benefited from it last year in KTPA, but nobody wants it for unknown reasons, they just say no !!! |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Waiting......
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........I’m sure it’s just a matter of time until Lewis gets on here and condemns it.
“Never came on any model being used” “didn’t have it in the 70’s and 80’s” “costs too much” “Plow tractor didn’t need it” “It’s a form of cheating” “Leave that for the log skidder tractors” There’ll be no shortage of statements coming I’m sure! |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Na i love it much smoother and for the record there is a brand of farm tractor back in the 80s came with it from the factory independent built into each spindle and was really nice in plowed ground Who can name that tractor |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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EFV
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Didn't Belarus have springs on each spindle ? |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
That's one you could pull down the track rared 10 inches and the front tires would still be on the ground |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
I'm intrigued by the advancement in designs and see them as ultimately a chassis saver. Meanwhile, someone else is looking to kick you ass somewhere else. When is this fight going to start? |
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Nice Pic
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Registered: 08/07/2019 Posts: 7 |
Nice looking Cockshutt I was wondering if the Carroll Family from Missouri still pull their tractors |
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Re: Nice Pic
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Dirtfarmer
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Yes, they do. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Front suspension
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Best sales gimmick going..... perfect for the guy who can’t balance his tractor, good for making a last place run a second or third from last place run. If you run for points you can’t be without this revolutionary game changer! 
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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billee,
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gotta have the latest and greatest,like most of America,needed or not,gimmee gimmeeeee.Like always some can make it a positive others not so much.All new hy tech is not needed or good IMHO. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Posts: 756 |
For those that have never been on a Wild ride, maybe a suspension does not make sense .. I have watched and been on a "Wild Ride", bent both front rims and knocked the driver out. I see this as a safety issue. The tractor I am currently building WILL have suspension on the front. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Ken
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So true. That’s hilarious! |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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!!!!!?????
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What if your on an excellent run " front about 16 to 18 inches up" an something lets loose in driveline or engine lets loose an front end comes down hard an breaks the front end out from under it --- had nothing to do with balance ? |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Haulin Oats
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Why do some many people stick their noses into other people's business. Why do you care how they spend their money. If they want to run it and it's legal then butt out. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Front suspension
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Take a lot of spindles to pay for a suspension.... |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Front suspension
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Yeah because anonymity made this quote imply it would turn a last place tractor into a 2nd or third place tractor..... sometimes people react to what they think they see instead of the reality of what’s there. Then they post things about what they misunderstood in the first place. Has nothing to do with the poster id, has everything to do with the fact you didn’t understand or take the time to reread it to make sure you did before you posted. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 09/13/2014 Posts: 155 |
Well, you're right, I read over a dozen responses and misspoke on one point. Fact is no one on here said that it's a game changer. Not a single one, but that post implies that people think it is. Maybe if people could understand the original post, they wouldn't post ridiculous comments that argue no facts, at all. And then hide behind anonymity... Why are people so afraid to post their name, while posting comments that are inapplicable? No one said that it made the tractor better. Those iin favor all said that it makes them safer. While yes, there are some that have tested and say the suspension unweighted the rear tires less, while bouncing. The original comment was useless, but obviously since you're against it, it must be garbage... Dont remember asking if you liked it or not, but thanks for the input. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Front suspension
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Alright, I’ll explain my stance a little further and maybe it’ll help you understand. LLSS came about as an economic class to enter for those who no longer wanted to spend the money to participate in the LSS class. So here’s what happens next. The class exceeds all expectations of horsepower generation and various rules changes come along putting some of the original members of the class back on the sidelines. As you may have noticed the spending in the class has already become cost prohibitive to compared to its original intentions. So let’s fast forward to adding air ride in an organization that currently doesn’t allow it. Say they decide to vote it in. Next thing you know a top runner spends 8k on a new air suspension plus extensive dyno time and the latest turbocharger that no one knows even exists yet. Comes out and continues to be a or the top tractor. Now your pullers who entered the class and those thinking they’d like to get in on the class are thinking damn I’m gonna have to spend 8k on a suspension to even be competitive, most of which are totally oblivious to the under hood work but that suspension is right where they can see it so it is perceived as a necessity. So more go to the corner of the barn OR another economic starter class begins to replace the economic starter class that became out of reach repeating the cycle.
As for your statement of my view of suspension systems as garbage you are wrong again. They are cool as heck and well engineered. They’ll even save a spindle. Most will start to rely on it as most wont learn to correct what caused their bad run in the first place. Please quit assuming my position on various points until you do some critical thinking on why a statement has been posted. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 09/13/2014 Posts: 155 |
I'm well aware that it originated as an economical class. Is that really a thing when it comes to tractor pulling? Wasn't that the original intention of Superfarm? And I agree with you, that the class has exceeded original expectations. There are some damn fine tractors pulling in the class. And in no way are they "entry level" or cheap. There's quite a range in the class, at the moment. Unfortunately, with that exceeding of expectations, comes the need to reassess the rules, if the performance has surpassed the rules, but purely from a safety aspect. As I said, I feel the front ends definitely add a level of safety to pulling. Am I saying the rules need to be changed? No. I'm not asking that. My sole purpose was to find out where I can pull next year, and where I'd be wasting a drive. To your point of the ever increasing cash flow...unfortunately, no matter what class, that's going to happen. I know a guy that spent over 10k testing intake manifolds on his Superfarm. He picked up power, but that's a lot of coin for a very slight edge. I would hope that people, looking at a class, can see the differences in the machines. Some may not. I'd hope that people could see the front ends for what they are, a safety item, not performance. But...some may not. I have been very happy to see some guys that are not high dollar teams, running well and winning, in LLSS, across the country. It's refreshing. I see your points, but feel we're beyond that. Unless a class is started that are basically "Cup Cars", there will always be someone throwing money at their toy. Whether it's grand national, or local Profarm. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 07/06/2017 Posts: 369 |
some will never be happy no matter what is changed. The ones who are on top with solid axels will be the ones on top with suspension. I know it’s hard for some self centered people to grasp but it’s just the way it goes. I just wish for once there could be a class than can except the rules, stop bitching about turbos, stop bitching about weight & stop bitching about the chassis. Just follow the dang rules & pull. What’s so hard about that? |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Does that mean the rules should never be changed? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 09/13/2014 Posts: 155 |
Again Cody...who is bitching about the rules? Who asked for the rules to be changed? Not me... I asked what associations allowed bags... Who is bitching about the rules and asking for them to be changed? |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 07/06/2017 Posts: 369 |
It’s a never ending cycle. There’s thread after thread of guys arm wrestling over LLSS rules. The suspension deal just adds to it. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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the Europeans have had them on their tractor for years....
[www.curbsideclassic.com] |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Are tractors with suspension dominating? Does it give them any measurable advantage? Does it make the show any different? Are fans upset by it? It sure doesn't look like it to me. So why outlaw it? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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A seven inch drop ten feet in front of the rear axle equates to a one inch increase 18 inches behind the rear axle. I'll take an extra inch to help me out any day. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Yeah, I wrote about that about 8 years ago... [www.pulloff.com] Many organizations have adopted ski bars 4" off the ground, if you dropped your ski bars into the dirt you'd gain roughly 1/2" drawbar. In today's cell phone camera world someone would notice if you started your run with your ski bars dragging in the dirt. As a side note: You could pump up your front tires for the draw-bar check and then drop air pressure and accomplish the same thing. Should we ban pneumatic front tires? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
And the reality is that the front end of the vehicle is very seldom on the ground during the hook. If you are not transferring weight to the rear axle during the hook you are not using the optimum traction that is available. And if the front end is on the ground more than likely the run is over. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2019 02:09PM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 07/06/2017 Posts: 369 |
Who’s air ride has 7” of adjustable ride height? That’s quite a bit & very noticeable |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 07/06/2017 Posts: 369 |
Why is there always someone wanting to screw with the rules. If the rules state “no suspension frontend” then why is that so hard to comprehend. The same ones that are always wanting to screw with the rules are the first ones to bark when a class gets too expensive. My LSS has air ride & the LLSS is solid. I do notice a difference in the air ride but don’t think it’s a necessity. With that said, I’d be the first to put air ride under my LLSS but it isn’t legal & I see no need to cause the class to spend $1000’s more to retrofit their tractors when it’s a very competitive class as it is. So just leave it alone & keep on pullin’ |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Yep
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I see your point Cody --- but if you never run them they wont break either !!!! Just sayn !!! |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 07/06/2017 Posts: 369 |
Lol. True story. Actually the new LLSS is coming pretty good & the LSS just needs the head stuck back on. Hard to magically fix em when everything seems to take a year to get done. You’re welcome to come help, watch, criticize.... we welcome all kinds. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Yep
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Lol, i was just razzing you !!! Id love to have the light super "Hankocks" i always loved that tractor !!! Have a good day !!! |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Jason Hohman
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Suspension on front ends are not allowed in Western NY in LLSS any questions come to a pull,meeting, or give me a call Newlyalcoholic 716 472-4410 |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 09/13/2014 Posts: 155 |
Jason Hohman, I thought that WNY Pro Pullers mirrored the SCWTP rules. That's what I was told. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Jason Hohman
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Newalkyholic wny adopted the national rules when they were written a couple of seasons ago. Only change we have is 6400lbs. Rules are up to date on the website. Stop buy at this weekends pull would be great to meet you, and answer any other questions you may have. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 09/13/2014 Posts: 155 |
Cody, I don't know if your reply was in response to my original post, or someone else's reply, but I'm not asking anyone to change their rules. I merely stated that I thought they were more widely accepted, and asked what associations allow them in LLSS, and who does not. From the reply up above, to anyone that thinks adding an air ride front to a back of the pack tractor, and it magically turning into a better runner is laughable. But from a safety standpoint, I, personally, feel they're a good thing. I've seen some pretty wild rides that wouldn't have been half as bad with give in the front end. I've also seen drivers injured from hard front end slams, that also could've been avoided. At the same time, to allow it, doesn't mandate it... Nor does allowing it give some crazy unfair advantage. I'm not trying to change anyone's rules. Never asked that. I was just surprised at a few of the ones that don't allow it, as they're some of the bigger LLSS classes in the country. Mine does, so I'm building for it, and I'll travel to anywhere that will let me run my personal set up. I like the level of protection it offers my tractor, and myself. As to the comment about weighting the tractor, as stated above, by Jake, I believe, there are instances where the tractor shuts down, and slams to the ground, let alone, I've seen some of the best track readers and set up guys get too high in the front going down the track. It happens. I'd rather protect my investment from whatever damage I can. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2019 07:37AM by Newalkyholic. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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We pull Ntpa, Badger State, PPL and Eci and they all allow front suspension. I personally wouldn't build a new chassis without it. |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 01/04/2012 Posts: 156 |
I shure don't think its a necesetie(spell ck) ,,,,,,but if your building a new chassis it protects your investment |
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Re: Suspended Front in LLSS
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
CPR IT LOOKS GREAT |
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