01:54:53pm, Thursday, May 02, 2024
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Doug was right!
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
I agree with the last post on the Pro Stock turbo limits. But it goes beyond that, Doug had insight into so many other classes also. Doug had vision that the present leadership in the two other organizations don't have. Take a look at the numbers the Outlaws have in their shows, strong consistent numbers in all of their classes. The Outlaws never sanctioned a 650 cubic inch alcohol class much to their credit. And they followed the rules for their Unlimited Super Stock class which is basically the LSS class in everyone else's association. They're Modified numbers are good, and their FWD and TWD numbers are outstanding. Their SF and PS numbers are constantly strong. There is really no magic here, it is called good sensible rules. Everyone knows that tractor pulling is expensive but it doesn't have to be a budget breaker for everyone. Good sensible rules will extend the lifespan of our sport. Unlimited rules will kill the sport. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2019 08:18AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Grapevine
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I had read somewhere that outlaws changed the limit for the ps class for 2020 , any truth to this? |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Richard Warren
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I talked to Tony Wortman today. He said they went to 5". |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Registered: 12/31/2008 Posts: 101 |
I’ve been a NTPA fan for years and years. I will fully admit that after watching the Outlaws on YouTube I can say your right. I run a cast rear end diesel light super. They haven’t screwed up the LSS class like everyone else has. It doesn’t make sense to me to spend that kind of money anymore. I have kids and a nice house to me it’s not worth it. I had a alcohol heavy super and I went back to my roots and bought one of my first tractors back. I wish I was closer to Outlaw country because to me it’s very appealing. Simple rules that a person can afford to go out and enjoy themselves. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2019 11:19PM by 3 Foot Willie. |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Old ways are better
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I couldn't agree more,im all for progress BUT, i also have ran a light and heavy super before an went back to a LLSS, just think how many more pullers or their kids that would be pulling today that have been forced out because of the expense, just like in the world today, it would be a much better place if we hadn't strayed so far away from the older times. |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Older than dirt
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The big difference is the Doug ran the organization and in NTPA and PPL the pullers run the show. And look what's happening |
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Re: Doug was right!
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ppl info for you..
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PPL is run by John Mears. Competitors don't vote for any rule changes. They give input only. |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Team one
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Fair enough, but how many Ntpa SSD are over 540? Maybe 2? at this point 540 seems to be working the best. |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Beach front in AZ for sale
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If you believe that there aren't about 8 pullers that are pulling the strings then I got some beach front property for sale, in Az. |
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Re: Doug was right!
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names...
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Name these elite 8 pullers,...………….come on you can do it ……………….? |
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Re: Doug was right!
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not just John
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And Christy. If nothing has changed she has equal power as him, but he has kind of become the "face" of ppl. And pullers won't hesitate to go over them and straight to Forrest like they did when they wanted rid of Hager. |
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Re: Doug was right!
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IH-Super
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They kept the Heavy Diesels Supers at 540 also not doing the NTPA 650 madness. |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Napa puller
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Doug should run Napa-ppl-outlaws at least he keep the cost down and everyone could afford it |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 95 |
Maybe you should take a look at the tractor (and how much it cost) for Barn Buddy ............... AAAAANNNNNNNDDDDD look at the new tractor Doug may someday get done for himself (both are in the "cast LSS" class and then see if you still think thats keeping costs down hahahahahahahahahah |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Rules
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Doug put rules in place for the LSS class that would even up the different brands without having a lot of cost and was passed for 3 years. Then the new leadership screwed that up after the first year and now they have to spent money to make weight. |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 95 |
I guess thats YOUR take on the situation. Truth is Doug had a BOATLOAD of JD parts he wanted to get rid of, made new rules and created his own "sale" That meeting .. I was in attendance.... All the brands that pulled that class were ALREADY making weight including mine. The BS that he came up with didnt do anything but create a tech nightmare and sell all his parts. (meeting was on Saturday and Sunday there was a page of parts he was selling on here.) There is no magic number to frontend weight like he was trying to convince everyone. |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Keith, you know me and I have nothing against Doug, but I'll agree 200%. That HAD to be a tech nightmare! |
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Re: Doug was right!
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LEWIS
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Sounds like the old every bodies hero Doug turned to the Dark Side and took several with him.This fits in with the other topic of who should be making the rules |
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Re: Doug was right!
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BS
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That’s all BS. Doug, Schlueter’s and others didn’t start on any projects till after meeting. I was one of them that was there. All he brought was stock cast pieces with weights and paperwork to back it up. It was a year later before he built Schlueter tractor. He saw a class in trouble and tried to fix it. Look at that class now after the changes he made were thrown out. Worst shape it had ever been in and most promoters dropping it for lack of support. |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Sure
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If that is the case why is your ag chassis so light and why the push to allow components in Bush LSS instead of building for the class that is already there? |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 95 |
My chassis has weighed the same as it always has. It was built for this class according to the rules in place. I didnt "push" for components in this class ....... I dont care one way or the other. It was funny to me when Doug was spouting about the "disadvantage" Deeres have and they need a weight break. So I asked how much weight do I get beings I only have 1 turbo..... he says "well thats your CHOICE!! and my reply ..... Well so is running a Deere .... he got chapped and turn around. hahahahahahahahah you guys can kiss his ass all you want I dont care ...... |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Puller2020
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I don’t have a dog in the fight and in no way am defending Doug but the numbers in the Nebraska Bush LSS weren’t exactly staggering last Summer. And now one of the regulars retired from pulling! Who’s a great guy and will be missed. |
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Re: Doug was right!
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pullinfan4255
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No worries Puller2020 component tractors are now allowed in the CAST LSS so they will SAVE PULLING! Seems like I have seen this movie before.... |
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Re: Doug was right!
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JHM
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As I read all these post on Doug Roberts I will tell you that I was at the meeting that Doug had at the Dunklau shop that winter. I tech some in Missouri and Kansas for another association and Doug invited everyone from other associations to come to the meeting. He had a tech school and showed everyone how to measure tractors and had papers made that we could use at our pulls to measure tractors. It was a well ran meeting and we learned a lot. He had some other paperwork and also the cast iron pieces from 6 or 7 different brands of tractors. That paperwork showed why some brands could make front end weight better than others. From what I gathered at the meeting was the LSS class was declining in numbers and he was trying to help it. After reading these posts from Kieth Backer I remember him now. He was basically the biggest prick at the meeting and apparently still is today. I remember him wanting more weight as he only had one turbo on his alcohol tractor, he wanted more weight because he had a cast head, and just on and on. We do not offer this class in our association but I do remember Doug telling everyone this is the Light Super Stock class and this is not about giving tractors more weight for 1 turbo instead of 3 or 4 turbos, cast head instead of aluminum head, P-pump instead of Sigma, bigger cubic inch than others, because that was everyone’s choice no matter what brand you were pulling. This meeting was about make it fair competition for all brands to compete on a more even playing field by having close to the same frontend weight without breaking the bank to do it. I thought he said tractors now pull at different weights in the class and they would put a sticker on each tractor to show what it would weigh when it went on the scales. I am not smart enough to know if it would have helped the class but at least he was trying and a lot of stuff he has done in the past has worked. As far as Kieth Backer goes I don’t even remember him pulling at any Outlaw pulls so why all this hostility towards Doug Roberts. What has he done to you? You remind me of the way Democrats treat Donald Trump that have TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome). All your posts on here are mainly against Doug Roberts not rules. I do not think he could make any decision or rules that would please you. Maybe you have a case of RDS (Roberts Derangement Syndrome). Lol! |
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Re: Doug was right!
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well said
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very well said! |
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Re: Doug was right!
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James
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Does anyone know how to bring that meeting info up on here. It’s been at least a couple years ago but remember seeing it. We are are working on a project and could use some of that info. I remember it was drawings on cast rear ends, how to figure weight and measure tractors. Thanks for this site Jake & Dick! |
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Re: Doug was right!
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SD Outlaw fan
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[www.pulloff.com] |
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Re: Doug was right!
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300' Puller
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You sound like someone I know from Southwest Missouri. Always trying to sell us on his tractor wisdom. I will agree with a couple of things on this thread. The LSS class needed to change, No doubt. Doug had some good thoughts and knowledge at the time, however it was too complicated for everyone to understand or deal with. It created a tech nightmare and was going to be a hard manage. It was clearly weighted towards John Deere that day and their disadvantage in the class. There was some good ideas that I think could of come out of it, but it needed to be simplified a bit and needed to come from a different voice on that day. I do believe to some degree that those other tractors in question were already in the design process and he knew what direction he needed to go to build them to compete with the red one from South Dakota. The talk at that meeting was a lot about John Deeres and the disadvantaged they had in that class with regards to front end weight. To be fair we did talk about others. The Today's LSS class weighs to much, has to much power and goes to fast these days. Figure out how to slow them down and take weight away and maybe you will get more tractors back in the class. The class needs to be dropped back in time a bit like the class that it used to be. After all its a cast base class. The problem is we kept progressing forward and making it more modern with time thus making it more component like. Old cast components, new high dollar parts being bolted to antique housing. That can't work in a class for very long, especially one that was never meant to be nothing more then a starter class for pulling. Somewhere along the line we kept trying to make it be a fast, heavy super stock like class that turns fast tires, on a short wheel base and narrow frame.Crazy right? I thought that component classes and diesel super stock classes were designed to be the next step for the puller that wanted to spend more, go faster and have more power. If people wanted to go faster then they should of built tractors in other classes. Really what has ultimately hurt this class is the need by pullers to go 27mph for 350' in 8 seconds or less. These cast rear ends aren't meant to go 350' at that speed. Certain tractors like IH's are because of their weight advantage. So, now we are back to why Doug wanted to make the changes way back when. He wanted the Green ones to be able to do the same ground speed. Again, stop trying to drag race a tractor, instead make them pull more weight. That will stop a lot of this and keep it alive. Just my thought in short. lol |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 95 |
hahahahahahahaha ye p missed the point but Im not surprised. PLUS you DONT know what I have or have not. I was mocking Doug about the single charger getting more weight LOL I never said I wanted more weight because I have a cast head either ..................... because I've NEVER had one after switching to alky. The reason I CHOSE to run a single .......... the class was already getting outta hand and I could see that from the cheap seats. The big prick in the room was the one crowing about the JD disadvantage LOL I sat at a table with Mark Ulmer and a bunch of others I know from various organizations and never said anything outside of our group until Doug was pissed that everybody wasnt jumping on board with him and so broke for lunch and fed all pizza and pop to ease everyone THATS when he was over by us and Mark asked me if I should get more weight due to my single (all in jest) so I asked Doug also in jest to mock all this BS
Now fast forward because so many think guys like me wrecked the class. Have you seen the build pictures of Dougs tractor? Bamber head with 3 chargers in a componet chassis that has a piece of cast in it to make it legal. That setup already belongs in the other class less the cast iron. Doesnt sound like someone concerned with the health and longevity of the class. Plus look up Outlaw standings I did pull with them for 2 seasons I even pulled at Spencer Ia this last season. I was on TV and made the highlight reel ........ how did that escape you? |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Registered: 03/02/2010 Posts: 69 |
I personally think the orange tractors are ruining that outlaw lss class, those guys are real pricks too... |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Slow It Down
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If you want to slow it down take away the cubes! Why should you be able to run the exact same Akly 3 charger setup in the cast class that runs Component Class? Take it bdown to a 440 max cube class. |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Big Red Binder, you crack me up !!! Your complaining that JHM didn't put his real name, but neither did you !!! You Afraid ?? |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Lewis
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Jake and Bryan needs to quit deleting post for not using there name because I figured something out we have a lot of Indians that pull most of these are Indian names I didn’t like k backer for a while it I do now his name is always up there the great green spirit also sees this |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 95 |
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Re: Doug was right!
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Registered: 01/31/2012 Posts: 99 |
I think it's time to take a chill pill. Don't need to be talking smack on the keyboard. Was Doug Roberts right about everything, no, but he was right about many things. He helped put on many great pulls and helped an organization gain a lot of momentum. I find it odd that someone can post a comment that Keith Baker was the biggest prick in the room when he didn't know him and not even have the balls to put his name on his post. I would say chances of Keith been the biggest prick in a room were extremely low. He has helped others get started pulling. He is trying to look out for a class that wants to give a break to different colors. Keith and is correct that not all Doug's weight numbers were accurate.
Back to the subject this topic was intended for. Limits on different classes are important to save numbers. I think a couple classes of unlimited is great. I think many classes need to have limits to try to keep the budgets where more people can afford to build for them |
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