Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 02, 2020 02:22PM
If I'm reading the new Eurocup rule correctly, each class will have a minimum of 5 way pulloff. We have a pretty good idea how U.S. pullers would feel about this. How would American fans feel about this type of rule? Text pasted below:

For ETPC competitions the defined minimum number of tractors in the Pull Off is 5
Each tractor passing the Full Pull line (normally 100m), automatically qualifies for the Pull Off
There can also be more than 5 tractors in the Pull Off if they pass the Full Pull line in qualification but NEVER less than 5
If there are less Full Pulls than the defined minimum number (5), the next best distances BELOW 100m but ABOVE 90m qualify for the Pull Off



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2020 02:25PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 02, 2020 03:29PM
Fine by me
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 02, 2020 11:36PM
People already complain about show lengths now you want to add 30hooks to a 6class show? Make up your minds people
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 03, 2020 01:57AM
This is basically one way to make sure you know how many runs you'll have in a class.
This rule is for the Euro Cup series and all tractors taking part have to be signed up before the season starts. The teams pay quite some money for that, of which they will get back a certain % at each event and then price money for the top 12. So the classes are not running out of hand in numbers.

There are usually 10 to 15 tractors in each class. So as a promoter/spectator you are not having to deal with extra long classes but more like 15 to 20 "guaranteed" hooks per class, which is a number you can plan with.

If I am not mistaken, the maximum number of Euro Cup Classes per day and event is limited to three.
As a promoter you can have a "national" class added to the day show. Besids - we don't have sessions and events going for 6 to 8 hours per day are the norm.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2020 02:04AM by Sascha.
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 03, 2020 12:44AM
As far as I can see not much has changed....For years I've watched European pulling on youtube..They have always set the sled light and let 50-75% of each class make a full pull...Most of the time theres at least 5-10 tractors in the pull off..So now if only 3 make it past 100m a couple that only made it from 90-99m can now join the pull off..
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 07, 2020 01:05AM
I was just going to say the same thing. I like watching Euro mods. Seems like there are always a few mods that blow past the full pull mark without any trouble at all.
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 08, 2020 03:47AM
Lewis. It seems like a lot of pullers have forgotten who they are really out there for. It is the fans who come to see you that buy the tickets if you dont keep them coming back you will not have anywhere to go pull your big dollar tractors. There's a lot of difference between everyday pulling (state and regional) and bowling green and TOMAH chapel hill est. Not every event can be or should be of that calibur. Why is it so hard to understand if the bar is set too highonly a few can go there this is why llss hot farm and other limited classes are gaining popularity and the bigger classes are lossing numbers
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 08, 2020 02:47PM
Fuzz,
I have a lot of mixed emotions about this subject, as I've said in meetings; I love pulloffs but my tractor not so much. Having said that I can and will pulloff most times. I have certain times that I'd rather not, as an example last summer at Wauseon we didn't want to pulloff Tarry's tractor because we were getting to the end of a points season and had to drive across the state to run the next night. Not a time you want to hurt parts in a pulloff as there is no time to make repairs.

Another point I often make is that in RN2 we have many hooks during the week with no time to work on breakage. If breakage happens because of a pulloff not only does the puller miss out on the next event or two but fans the promoter and the organization also miss out on that competitor being a the next event.


To answer someone like Lewis that says we push our engines too hard and can't run them twice I say no we don't. We have a lot of money invested and have a long season , run for not a lot of money but we can and will make 2 passes we would just rather not and live to run another night.

I will also say that I've seen fans get just as excited about a fast 350' run as they do about a pulloff.

S'no Farmer
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 09, 2020 01:15PM
Quote
S'no Farmer
Fuzz,
I have a lot of mixed emotions about this subject, as I've said in meetings; I love pulloffs but my tractor not so much. Having said that I can and will pulloff most times. I have certain times that I'd rather not, as an example last summer at Wauseon we didn't want to pulloff Tarry's tractor because we were getting to the end of a points season and had to drive across the state to run the next night. Not a time you want to hurt parts in a pulloff as there is no time to make repairs.

Another point I often make is that in RN2 we have many hooks during the week with no time to work on breakage. If breakage happens because of a pulloff not only does the puller miss out on the next event or two but fans the promoter and the organization also miss out on that competitor being a the next event.


To answer someone like Lewis that says we push our engines too hard and can't run them twice I say no we don't. We have a lot of money invested and have a long season , run for not a lot of money but we can and will make 2 passes we would just rather not and live to run another night.

I will also say that I've seen fans get just as excited about a fast 350' run as they do about a pulloff.

Very well stated Sno Farmer!
Sno Farmer is a successful puller and a successful business man off the track as well.
He who has the $ invested in the expensive pulling engines makes the call of yes or no to the pulloffCool
I'm still voting for one fast run and done!Hot

S'no Farmer
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 03, 2020 04:45AM
Pulloffs were cool 30 years ago and they still are today. But the shows are already too long as it is. Also the purse today is the same as 30 years ago. Asking guys to run twice for the same money (without getting to do maintenance) between hooks is kind of ridiculous.
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 06, 2020 01:28PM
If you cant make back for the pull off dont hoook the first time
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 06, 2020 01:57PM
Old Fan no its not ridicules the rules are ridicules that its came to the point a stupid tractor cant make two hooks without taking a CRAP
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 06, 2020 02:32PM
From a fan perspective, a pull off is definitely more exciting. Especially for those that arent hard core fans. It's just not that exciting when the winner was the second hook in a 15 tractor class. I get it for smaller classes and pulls, but at a big time event, I like a good ol pulloff. I don't get the notion that pulls are too long either. Why does a pull need to be done in two hours? It's an event. It's something you look forward to. And it's usually a big deal for the community. Have an extra hot dog and buy a raffle ticket or two.
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 07, 2020 09:34AM
To me a pulloff just means the sled wasn't set tight enough the first time. Pulloffs should be extremely rare and special, not routine.
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 07, 2020 11:42AM
In the big classes sadly it is the norm, 330 is the new 300,sad - sad SAD !! People want glory, sensational crap, fictitious reality.should be as you say an exception rather than the rule, the best of the best E#lite few should be out the gate.
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 07, 2020 12:07PM
I was around pulling before there were mechanical sleds..Even back then we had 300 ft tracks and there was a 5-6 MPH pace tractor...If you had 300-400 horsepower you were the top dog..Now we have over 10,000 horsepower pullers with ground speeds of 30 mph plus...A 300 ft track is too short for them..Most all of the tracks I pull on are prepped out to 350 ft plus...Most pullers are stopped in the 300-330 ft range..One run and done, go load for the next pull...If I never see another pulloff I'm perfectly fine with it..I and lots of other pullers got tired of them..It got to where if 3 were out the gate they would split 1st place rather than come back..


I wonder what it costs per pass for an Unlimited Mod..It would have to be unreal with 4-5 engines set on kill..I hate to see these tractors have a pulloff for the same prize money as one hook..
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 07, 2020 01:08PM
Yes its lots of fun driving hundreds of miles for some make a 17 second pass load it on the trailer and head to the next one WOW ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,So much excitement for the fan NOT Pulloffs are a big part of the excitement just like when a basketball game goes into overtime .I love pulling and now just a fan thats not been to but two pulls in the past two years and can still predict who the top four will be in most of the classes ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Wheres the excitement in that if a hundred thousand dollar engine cant make two passes its a piece of crap
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 07, 2020 02:15PM
Quote
LEWIS
Yes its lots of fun driving hundreds of miles for some make a 17 second pass load it on the trailer and head to the next one WOW ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,So much excitement for the fan NOT Pulloffs are a big part of the excitement just like when a basketball game goes into overtime .I love pulling and now just a fan thats not been to but two pulls in the past two years and can still predict who the top four will be in most of the classes ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Wheres the excitement in that if a hundred thousand dollar engine cant make two passes its a piece of crap

Put your money where your mouth is........ I bet youd sing a different tune if it all came out of your pocket Lewis.
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 07, 2020 02:26PM
There hasn't been a pulloff in my area for at least 25 years....The fans would probably boo if we had one..Lots are buried in their cell phones and start leaving after 3 hours..It doesn't bother me a bit to drive 150 miles to make a 15 second or less pass...My class is scheduled 12 times this year and I intend to make 12 passes as I pull on a budget..My engine could stand 2 passes in my class but I dont care to do it and neither do any of the other pullers....Our association usually puts on a 4 hour pull without pulloffs..

You have your opinion and I have mine..
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes fans point of vew March 08, 2020 12:38AM
Kbacker first I wouldn’t be pulling in a class I couldn’t afford as I’ve had 3 llss tractors and 3 modified stock tractors so I have put my money we’re my mouth is 6 times in the classes I have chosen don’t forget it is not the fans fault rules in some classes has got so far out of hand and drivin the cost of pulling up so much you have to pick and choose how many runs you can make in a season in the days of pull off the crowd would stand and cheer there champion that’s not there anymore
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes fans point of vew March 08, 2020 04:01AM
too many electronics, too many distractions, has to be bigger and better all the time, never ending self killing drive.
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes fans point of vew March 08, 2020 01:48PM
Lewis .............. you have totally missed the point. Your LLSS and farmstock or whatever you had pile ALL their value together in one single tractor then lets see if you STILL wanna run it ,run it, run it.
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes fans point of vew March 08, 2020 02:52PM
K just getting under your skin like i always do is worth every misspelled word i make i could agree with you on something and you being such a donkey as you are you would still make a big fuss about it just because its me LOL
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes fans point of vew March 09, 2020 08:58AM
Actually Lewis you DONT get under my skin like you wish ...... sorry to disappoint you . But your lack of real knowledge of what it takes at the upper levels is astounding.

But then ............ the lower levels ............. yeah I will keep using the shop I use so I know my stuff is truly "balanced"
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes fans point of vew March 09, 2020 01:19AM
I dont mind long distances,but most all facilities were designed to have a 300 ft track..I'll take the north track at bg,( I sit on the south side at 310 to 320),for years the bleachers stopped at what 280 ?? .personally I enjoy watching the tractor ,not the sled.could a compromise at events to extend the track behind the starting line used currently ?, to put the 320 at the end of the bleachers,also the vehicles could enter the track at the 100 to 150 ft mark and just backup,instead of entering from the rear,should save 200 ft of distance traveled at a slow speed.not many sit between the 50 to 100 ft distance anyway.this would give those a much better view.the 300 plus bleachers get more packed every year,and the 0 to 100 lose attendance,people want to see the vehicle not the sled
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes fans point of vew March 10, 2020 10:22AM
Quote
Lewis
Kbacker first I wouldn’t be pulling in a class I couldn’t afford as I’ve had 3 llss tractors and 3 modified stock tractors so I have put my money we’re my mouth is 6 times in the classes I have chosen don’t forget it is not the fans fault rules in some classes has got so far out of hand and drivin the cost of pulling up so much you have to pick and choose how many runs you can make in a season in the days of pull off the crowd would stand and cheer there champion that’s not there anymore

MANDATORY OVERTIMES IN ALL BASKETBALL GAMES!
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 08, 2020 04:54AM
A 60 second clock when the sled parks back at the starting line would speed things up tremendously.!!
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 08, 2020 04:47AM
Sleds stop well inside of 300’ at the indoor pulls, why is it so difficult outdoors?
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 08, 2020 06:06AM
The sleds could stop them at 175’ if that’s what is necessary. People seem to like runs of 340’, so that’s where we are.
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 08, 2020 06:29AM
Just another comment how many has noticed the excitement the crowd shows during the indoor pulls when a tractor puts it on the sand pile enough said about what the fans want
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 08, 2020 07:53AM
Quote
66W310
Sleds stop well inside of 300’ at the indoor pulls, why is it so difficult outdoors?


Why do we need to stop them at 300 ft outdoors when lots of places have 350 ft plus tracks..??Let them get up and run like Eder did at the Enderle.. I didnt hear anyone boo his 395 ft run...I dont like outdoor pulls where they have to claw and fight to get to 280 ft and destroy the track doing it....PPL had that happen at a pull in Wisconsin last year and it was no fun to watch..Sullivan won at 285 ft and most of the class didnt make it past 250 ft..As for indoor pulls I personally dont care for them as usually the track is way too short..
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 08, 2020 02:52PM
Quote
My Opinion
Why do we need to stop them at 300 ft outdoors when lots of places have 350 ft plus tracks..??Let them get up and run like Eder did at the Enderle.. I didnt hear anyone boo his 395 ft run...

I can't say that I know much about how the track setup is at the Enderle (where's Yaron when you need him? LOL), but do they have 525 feet of track? I ask this because NTPA used to have a rule (it's been a couple years since I have bought a rule book, so it may still be) where you were supposed to have a run-off area a third of the distance of the track length.

If they do and the competitor wants to, hammer down!


John Murray
Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion

Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama.
Watch LGP on YouTube
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S-10 2wd / carrying the US Mail March 08, 2020 08:15AM
I vote for one run and done.

The first time I saw a 340 foot run was at a TNT/Red Man summer series pull at the MO state fair in the late 80s in one of Bill Humprey's 2wd s-10 trucks Spike or Jack Daniels. The fans loved it Hot The track was long and had plenty of shut down room.
I would much rather see that type of run than a pull off run with the truck or tractor making a slow tire burner to 290 feet.

Most sled operators can set them pretty well to achieve 295-340 foot runs and put on a good show.

If you were to take a vote, most pullers in the National classes will vote for 1 run.
The local classes and various sportsman classes that run radiators and coolant will vote to run 2 or 3 times. It all depends on the level of the event and the number of entries.
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Re: S-10 2wd / carrying the US Mail March 08, 2020 11:59AM
you people are arguing against your own point, - for Golly Sake, --- Yes the sand Pile piques the Interest for SURE, and now wait for it, ------- The 300' or at most 320' outdoors is the Sand Pile, the problem is that they keep moving it so no winner winner chicken dinner when it ain't where it is supposed to Be.
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fan vote pulloff or know pulloffs March 08, 2020 01:08PM
Take a fan vote pullers vote dont mean crap not many wants to se the ass end of the sled
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Re: fan vote pulloff or know pulloffs March 08, 2020 01:39PM
Quote
LEWIS
Take a fan vote pullers vote dont mean crap not many wants to se the ass end of the sled

Never heard fans boo a 320ft pass...I listen for that stuff...

If seeing the back of the sled is a problem, sit or stand farther up the track...


Bryan Lively -

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Re: fan vote pulloff or know pulloffs March 08, 2020 02:35PM
I don't mind pulloff's. But if they are going to do some type of pull off, I would rather see them bring back the top 3 or 5 later in the event. Not anyone over a certain distance. As for the distance they run, give me a tight group around the 320'. Maybe someone goes 330 for the win. Now along with that, I talked to some ProStock drivers after an event last year where the winner ran around 370'. I was asking the drivers if running that distance was hard on equipment and if it bothered them. All of them said it didn't bother them running that far. However, they also told me that if they are going to let a sled setting someone takes the win at 370, then they don't want to see the sled setting change with a winner at 290". This particular event, the first 2 tractors were over 330 with some hard running tractors left. No sled reset was done. Drivers were telling me they plan for 320' give or take. I feel the drivers should know at the start of the pull where they are trying to stop them. Yes the crowd always gets into it when someone has a monster pass. But if any tractor puts 10' on everyone, the crowd gets into it. Whether it stops at 320 or 330. Just my opinion.
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Re: fan vote pulloff or know pulloffs March 08, 2020 10:45PM
The sport has changed dramatically over the last 20-30 years.

Pulloffs when I was a kid were the norm, and I enjoyed it.

I'm not a kid anymore and we aren't running 1800-2000 Super Stocks anymore that could go back-to-back.

I accept floating finishes for a number of reasons.

-They preserve machines for the puller. Going back-to-back leaves a lot of unknown about the condition of an engine. Does a puller have time to cool his machine off, pull the filter screen to see what's in it...who knows what else is broke on the tractor or truck?

-They preserve machines - hopefully - for the next show, and in turn for the next group of fans and that promoter.

-As mentioned before they speed up the show. First hook at 7pm, last hook at 10-10:30pm with a floating finish. Four classes with three in the pulloff is a minimum of 45 extra minutes to finish a show. That's if there isn't any breakage.

-Floating finishes might also be the difference between a pull getting completed or a couple classes getting rained out. It's happening with greater regularity I suspect.

I look at it this way: In certain classes if you start insisting on a pulloff and that hasn't been the case before in those classes, you're effectively doubling a season and maintenance for those pullers who excel. Yeah for some it's simply scratching a check for maintenance costs but for others it could determine if they finish a season. I'd suggest that some pullers would, in order to continue the season-long chase would "break" if they made a pulloff rather than sacrifice points they could make at subsequent events. Those classes that have 8-12 pullers max might have 4-5 at the end of the season...how's that fair to a promoter and to that promoter's fan base who are scheduled near the end of a season? That class might get axed for next year's pull.

I could be wrong, it happens multiple times through the day. A wise man once told me when I was young and dumber, "until you start writing the checks you don't get to make the decisions." So I look at this through that perspective, since I'm not paying to make the pullers go down the track, my ideas always revolve around NOT increasing the cost for the puller. Let me say it again. Pulloffs are far more expensive that floating finishes. We no longer live in 1990, 2000, or even 2010, and we need to act accordingly.


Bryan Lively -

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Re: fan vote pulloff or know pulloffs March 09, 2020 01:50AM
"We no longer live in 1990, 2000, or even 2010, and we need to act accordingly."
Back when you had full stands Winking


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
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Re: fan vote pulloff or know pulloffs March 09, 2020 02:42AM
Quote
Sascha
"We no longer live in 1990, 2000, or even 2010, and we need to act accordingly."
Back when you had full stands Winking

full stands / Indianapolis
[www.youtube.com]
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Re: fan vote pulloff or know pulloffs March 09, 2020 03:34AM
Bringing back pull offs will not fill the stands back up....Those days are long gone..Interest in all forms of motorsports in the US has been slowly dying for years..The younger generation doesn't care about high performance engines..Farms have gotten huge and the farm population is dwindling..All my old farm neighbors that used to attend the county fair tractor pull are gone...
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Re: fan vote pulloff or know pulloffs March 09, 2020 03:47AM
That's exactly what I keep hearing here from other motorsports all the time.
Meanwhile, Pulling here thrives with young folks in the crowds and their butts in the driver's seats.
And actually some other motorsport events here thrive, too - but they have music, party, show, etc... and a lot of oldtimers complaining about the kids drinking too much, being too loud, not focused on the sport,...

Events in my area that thrive:
[youtu.be] (7000 millenials celebrating hot farm tractors)
[www.youtube.com]
[youtu.be]

4500 watching motorcycle speedway that was declared dead here 10 years ago already

The old folks HATE these events...

and:
"The younger generation doesn't care about high performance engines" - oh they do. As soon as you let them hook a computer to them! Google "Freedom Factory"...


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2020 04:02AM by Sascha.
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Re: fan vote pulloff or know pulloffs March 09, 2020 04:34AM
One of the best things European pulling has going for it is its wide diversity with some good rules in place..You see all colors of diesel and alky tractors....Your Mod tractors aren't all Hemi powered..Almost everyone in the light mod class is running a different engine..The turbines and Allisons are still competitive...


I invite younger people to pulls and they aren't the least interested..My own nephews won't even go...My own son could care less even though I have a puller..In his defense he works long hours 6 days a week.I have lots of friends that go to pulls alone because none of their family will go with them..
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Re: fan vote pulloff or know pulloffs March 09, 2020 04:57AM
I guess it depends a lot on what's going on.
THe kids here go because "something is happening". Mostly the party afterwards is the main attraction to get them coming at first, being dragged there by their friends.
However - usually they then get to see an hour or two of pulling before something is actually going on. If you then have a good annoucer who has the crowd in a good mood and a DJ doing the music on track - it usually clicks and they are coming back.
The other thing is, kids these days don't learn much about engine building etc - but they quickly learn how to tune them - with their computers. There is a lot going on online about how to tune engines etc. - if we give the kids a place to play (instead of racing illegal on public roads), we'd have a foot in the door.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
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Re: fan vote pulloff or know pulloffs March 09, 2020 10:31AM
One of the clubs I pull with books county fairs and the fair board want a 2.5 to 3 hour show so the fans can get out to the midway. Have a pull off would make the show too long in my opinion.
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 09, 2020 01:20PM
To those who mentioned "the show is already too long," you are correct. And why? Because we as fans, for whatever reason, believe it is acceptable for there to be up to a 5 minute gap between hooks. There is nothing more painful and irritating as a fan than to see both tracks prepped and cleared, the sled parked, and no engine running. It was mentioned above a 1-minute clock from the sled was parked. The one PPL pull here in IL my family gets to go to was the worst its ever been this last year and I hope it gets corrected. It wasn't just one class, it was all of them, so that tells me PPL is responsible for the timeliness of the event.

Yes we are a family of fans (43, 43, 13, 11, and 9) who all love pulling.
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Re: Mandatory pulloffs, all classes March 09, 2020 01:57PM
Used to like the pulloffs in the day, Now, with so much money tied up in engines, etc, I have seen some bad engine damage on the 2nd run when the puller would of won it the 1st time!!
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? for Europeans March 09, 2020 02:12PM
How much does it pay to win a Eurocup pull for Minis, Pro Stock, Super Stock, and Heavy Unlimiteds? Is there a standard payout at all events, or do some pay more?

Is there an additional payout for making the pulloff? Finally, is travel money paid for Eurocup classes, and if so, how is it calculated?
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Re: ? for Europeans March 09, 2020 08:28PM
Prize money Euro Cup for light mod / Pro Stock and Super Stock (today's exchange rate)
1500 $ / 1350 / 1200 / 1000 / 975 / 920 and then in 55 steps down to 570 for 12th
The Heavy mod starts at 1940 $ for first and then 750 for 12th.
Minis 860 for first and 240 for 12th

No extra money for a pull off
No real travel money - but there is a system that if a promoter is " kinda way out of the main circle" he has to pay extra for trips like from England to Hungary (1400 mls one way at 5 $ gallon diesel) and promoters generally have to pay teams water crossings - ferries and bridges.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2020 08:37PM by Sascha.
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