Nasty wreck September 20, 2020 03:38AM
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Pretty nasty stuff. I think that roll cage saved his life makes a collapsible steering column look like a good idea too.

Eagle lite case tractor September 20, 2020 03:02AM
Does anybody know about the case eagle lite tractor from East Pennsylvania, is the driver ok? Seen Facebook pictures, they’ll put a lump in your throat

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 20, 2020 03:55AM
I saw on FB that the puller walked away.

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 20, 2020 05:10AM
This is a lesson for me. My cage mount gets completely redesigned. Gonna mount to the cast with more gussets. And tie the base to the tube frame.

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 20, 2020 06:20AM
Dad and I were talking about this and we thought a collapsible steering column might be a good idea in this sort of situation.

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 20, 2020 10:42AM
Can’t believe there are more discussing this accident.

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 20, 2020 11:30AM
Quote
bp4455
Dad and I were talking about this and we thought a collapsible steering column might be a good idea in this sort of situation.

That’s how my new build will be

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 20, 2020 12:40PM
So correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there a safety kill on the pulling vehicle that can be actuated by the sled operator? And if so why are we seeing these same type of incidents being repeated from week to week? Are the sled operators texting and dragging or what? No reason they shouldn’t have been shut down by the sled operator by the time they hit the 75 foot mark he should’ve know the box wasn’t moving. People better get there heads out of there a$$ before someone dies as a result of negligence.

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 20, 2020 12:55PM
Quote
Thinking out loud
So correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there a safety kill on the pulling vehicle that can be actuated by the sled operator? And if so why are we seeing these same type of incidents being repeated from week to week? Are the sled operators texting and dragging or what? No reason they shouldn’t have been shut down by the sled operator by the time they hit the 75 foot mark he should’ve know the box wasn’t moving. People better get there heads out of there a$$ before someone dies as a result of negligence.


I agree so I will ask this question. Was this a sanctioned pull?

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 21, 2020 02:59AM
Beyond Supertiquer question, since I cannot access Fbook, what class was the Case in? What were its required safety rules? Or is that part of the overall big problem why the Case crashed? If it is part of these so called Farm Stock classes, disaster is waiting for way too many of them across pulling land.

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 21, 2020 03:11AM
It had everything. Skis, tiebacks, cage, etc. I can't attest to the quality of it all, but I'd say it did it's job given the way it had been crushed forward and down.

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 21, 2020 04:01AM
There is no doubt that the sled operator and flag men are at fault. They did not do there job and now this puller is out piles out money and time if he does his own work. It’s a shame, you seldom see an original case pulling, and now there’s one less.

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 21, 2020 04:17AM
Is it a certified sled? If so, does it have any history of failing to move the box? Glad the guy is ok.

Nasty wreck September 21, 2020 02:54PM
No one has answered my question yet.

Re: Nasty wreck October 02, 2020 05:46AM
It was NOT a sanctioned event Clark



J R
Eastern Extreme Pulling
www.easternextremepulling.com
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Re: Nasty wreck October 02, 2020 04:02PM
Quote
J R
It was NOT a sanctioned event Clark

Thank you Jerry for answering my question.

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 21, 2020 05:11AM
Quote
Thinking out loud
So correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there a safety kill on the pulling vehicle that can be actuated by the sled operator? And if so why are we seeing these same type of incidents being repeated from week to week? Are the sled operators texting and dragging or what? No reason they shouldn’t have been shut down by the sled operator by the time they hit the 75 foot mark he should’ve know the box wasn’t moving. People better get there heads out of there a$$ before someone dies as a result of negligence.

Theres no need even hooking up the kill switch if it isn't going to be pulled in a situation like this one..As stated thats pure negligence...

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 21, 2020 05:42AM
I read on a seperate page from an antique puller that had pulled their earlier in the day that the sled was having issues during their classes.
Kill switch was pulled but it malfunctioned- If I read correctly, the cable snapped, guessing on the sled side vs tractor side.

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 21, 2020 07:45AM
I think sleds should a back up safety plan. Should have a set of big rippers or pile that drop if all others thing fail. There has to be something they can build that can stop the puller as a safety device for the sled.

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 21, 2020 08:01AM
Can anyone post a link to see the crash and what sled was it ?

Re: Eagle lite case tractor September 21, 2020 08:12AM
its on beer money face book and its the terminator sled its old and has had this happen before but the driver of the tractor had a run away spot tho in this case it was the sand pile this sled is trash its out dated and old retire it to antiques we do not need this happening since the sled company just bought him a brand new tractor and plus some probably a brand new truck and trailer to. Most likely some new rules to come also from this crash but could of been prevented. not to be rude but its time for that sled to go

Re: Nasty wreck September 21, 2020 08:22AM
With all the technology out there sleds, especially at the state and national levels, should be required to have an electronic monitoring system on the box. Track movement relative to ground travel. Stop the pull well before 75 ft. This at least takes the reaction time and response out of the sled operators hands. They should still have manual switches but why rely on them solely when the technology is out there?

Re: Nasty wreck September 21, 2020 10:26AM
Do sleds have annual safety inspections by sanctioning bodies or by someone who is impartial and not associated with the sled? Not being sarcastic I was genuinely wondering about that? If they don’t might not be a bad idea to put something in place.

Re: Nasty wreck September 21, 2020 11:48AM
At NTPA events sleds are inspected at every event. Competition vehicles have certain safety things that get looked at every night. The sleds are no different, the tech officials are required to check certain safty functions at every event. I do believe that they do a more thorough inspection preseason.

Two things that should have happened, the starting flagman should watch the box to make sure it is moving. If its not he should immediately throw the red flag. The finish line flagman should have then gotten in the the line of sight of the driver and feverishly waved the red flag. At that point it would have been partly on the driver but still mostly on the sled.

S'no Farmer

Re: Nasty wreck September 21, 2020 11:37AM
tractor and owner are top notch. runs lot places. i saw video and pics wasnt there but fully was sled operator fault. had lot time to pull kill switch or drop pan with teeth and apply brakes slow tractor down. i feel bad for case pulling family. prayers going out 2 driver. he has to be really sore after that ride..

Re: Nasty wreck September 21, 2020 12:59PM
Did the throttle clutch or brakes also not work on the tractor



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2020 01:14PM by Dick Morgan.

Re: Nasty wreck September 21, 2020 01:03PM
He got out of it but the sled but the sled kept pushing

Re: Nasty wreck September 21, 2020 01:42PM
This was my thought when I saw what happened with the old lady butterfly.

At what point as a puller do you not notice that the weight has not hit you, and decide that something is not right.

Re: Nasty wreck September 21, 2020 02:11PM
As a puller, by the time I would realize that the sled wasn't gonna hit me would be near the end of the track. Which would be too late! A 9500 lb tractor trying to stop a 38000 lb sled at 30 plus mph. Would be like a grade school linebacker trying to stop a NFL full back with a full head of steam head down and moving on through! Its easy to sit on the sidelines and critique others involved, especially if you have never been in that specific situation. But believe me, that 300 ft comes quicker than you think. As a puller when I'm hooked to the sled, you keep the throttle down in anticipation of the sled to go ker chunk and put the brakes on you! If it doesn't happen, by the time you realize it, its too late! Just saying.

Re: Nasty wreck September 21, 2020 02:40PM
Competitor in pulling,
I agree 100%, that is why it is so important that the starting line flagman watch that the box is moving and that the finish flagman watch him for his red flag in case it doesn't. Being a track official should be more than just giving a green flag to start a vehicle and a red flag when they spin in. I've never been to tech school but I'm guessing that there has to be at least a dozen things these flagmen are taught to watch for.

S'no Farmer

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 06:24AM
And what happens if the box driveline breaks just past the first flagman? The only way to solve it is to have a box monitoring system like the Europeans.

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 09:02AM
The issue has been solved with now more than 10 years experience in building box movement monitor systems in Europe. But we keep getting told, this won't happen in the USA...
Hell - even if a sled operator figues his box isn't moving by the 75ft mark. It takes the average human about one second to react.
Then what? Pull kill and jackknife this freight train tractor and sled combo at 150 ft and full speed?

It's not like the box movement control was without it's problems, being set up "fail safe" pulling the kill switch and killing a few turbos in the beginning. But the systems are sorted with thousands of runs now.
And they are cheap compared to rebuilding a tractor or paying for injury or death....

In Europe it's now considered "reckless" in court, if you operate a sled without this system and have an accident that could have been prevented with one.
Wonder what your sue happy lawyers make out of this?



[windup-team.blogspot.com]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2020 09:05AM by Sascha.

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 09:33AM
Hard to believe this,but doesn't the puller assume all liability to damage to his self/vehicle while at/competing at the event..this guy,with the case did nothing wrong in my opinion,but now he has a junk tractor,probably a 100k investment too..the sled malfunctioned and in the past has the sled owner ever been responsible for the vehicles damage ?,shouldn't they ?.I'm a independent contractor,if I damage any part of your home doing a update I'm responsible for the monetary value,thru insurance or a legal cash payment.i guess when the puller assumes all liability the sled owners dont have/need to be as concerned.

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 09:42AM
Not sure how it's handled in the US. In the UK exactly this caused the death of a puller. The Judge was pretty clear who was responsible - the sled operator / owner. The guy was lucky he had the sled company owned and it was the "company" to take the consequences (liquidated) and not him personally.



[windup-team.blogspot.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2020 09:43AM by Sascha.

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 10:21AM
Sascha, where could someone find the specifics on the European box system? I assume it is directly related to the sled association and all sleds have to use same components. Just curious on the now to.

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 10:52AM
There are several guys building these systems.

I would check with the Red Shadow guys and their system.

andre.vonaschwege@ewetel.net check with Andre. It's actually Eike who does the system, but I am sure Andre can get you in contact with Eike. He did the system for all the sleds in my region and it's working well now.

As for the EU sled rules - I have a version here - not sure it's the latest, but this "mess" is already covered in there. I'll try to attach it - hope it's not too big.



[windup-team.blogspot.com]
Attachments:
open | download - Sled Rulebook 2011-01.pdf (270 KB)

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 02:10PM
Doesn't solve the problem,
That is all well and good and I agree but from the way things played out at this event I'm guessing that this sled didn't have even what is the most basic safety features working let alone would they have installed these types of monitors.

S'no Farmer

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 02:30PM
Todd, I agree and yet no one has answered my question yet. You know what I mean.

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 02:38PM
Looks like no one knows or know one wants to say.

S'no Farmer

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 02:54PM
Todd, probably no one wants to say.

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 04:34PM
I’m gonna say no. I believe it was at a “gas and steam” show. The classes followed the rules of the Interstate Tractor puller association, but was not a points of hook of any sort. Guess you could say it was basically a “brush” pull

Re: Nasty wreck September 23, 2020 02:10AM
Of course it doesn't solve the problem of non teched equipment. But even teched stuff can have breakage...



[windup-team.blogspot.com]

Re: Nasty wreck September 23, 2020 04:33AM
Quote
Sascha
But even teched stuff can have breakage...



Amen! That is true and in fact I had that happen this year. We checked our kill switch 2 times BEFORE we left home to go to our first pull. It worked both times. We get to the pull and the tech man pulled it and the motor kept running for 15 seconds after it was pulled. We swore it was the switch. Checked continuity at the pull and the switch was working just like it was supposed to. Problem wasn't in the switch. Problem was a transistor went bad in the MSD box. Needless to say, we weren't allowed to pull and shouldn't have been.

Re: Nasty wreck October 02, 2020 05:51AM
You are correct!



J R
Eastern Extreme Pulling
www.easternextremepulling.com
EEPPULLINGVIDEOS

Pro Pulling Magazine
Hook Magazine

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 12:54AM
This is exactly why you do not need to cut corners on building your vehicles, comply with the safety rules written in the Rulebooks, they are there for reasons. I have had many Trucks and Tractors in the shop that didn't comply with the Rule book, you are playing with your life or the life of a loved one if you don't follow them to a Tee! I cant tell you how many rollcages I have noticed that didn't have the legal amount or size of bolts mounting the cage to the rearend. Thank goodness this Puller walked away safe from what I have heard, I have witnessed an accident just like this with a front row seat with a good friend in the seat of the Tractor, its a terrible thing, safety is job 1 !

BB

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 02:27AM
Why do we need classes going 25 to 35 mph down a pulling track? It is suppose to be PULLING, not a speed race.

A lot of classes fit that speed range, including many so called Farm Stock version classes.

This summer, I saw a few classes at 3 brush pulls (that also had sanctioned classes), of what was dubbed Hot Farm, Super Field, 2Hot2Farm, that did the 25 to 31.4 mph stuff. Drivers in all 3 of those so called named classes with No Firesuit, No Helmet, Who Knows What Else for Real Safety Equipment that was missing BUT Should Be Mandatory on these tractors.

Not knowing what their safety requairments are, they scare me at these speeds. An accident waiting to happen. And to make it worse, I know of at least 2 of those drivers are former SS & PS owner / drivers for many years.

It is well past due time that a lot of so called Farm Stock classes need to (severely) clean up their act. The pulling sport does not need a big black eye waiting to happen accident, for mass media publicity.

And just watch all the stress put upon a sled in those final moments to hammer a speeding tractor to a stop. Major Sled Failure someday looks to be a real possibility.

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 03:45AM
I need to take a harder look at how roll cages are mounted. We run the original 2 post for our class that bolts right on the rear axle. I've seen some cages just mounted on the floor plate. That sure doesn't seem strong enough in a real accident. I'd rather have mounting on the rear axle like the 2 post. I'd want to do it right vs. slapping something on just for the rules.

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 08:33AM
oops.....posted in the wrong spot first time!

Typical SFI cage mounting for a Deere typically encompasses 4 of the axle housing bolts at the differential housing (on each side) as well as 2 bolts on the rear of the differential housing. Many full mount plates will also use all original fasteners on the deck as well. Pretty stout when you look at how it is encapsulated.

I would be cautious fastening a cage mount out on the axle housing where the factory ROPS is mounted......if a housing lets go, you just lost you mounting point. And it has happened a time or two.

I can't speak to how all other brands are mounted. But for sure cage mounting is the last place you want to skimp on strength!!!

Re: Nasty wreck September 22, 2020 05:33PM
I bought a IH tractor that was built in Iowa or Indiana, The cage mounting job was poor at best. 1/8" differential cover plate and minimal gusseting. If the tractor had ever gone on its lid I have no doubt that the cage would have tore loose at its mounting. I do not know who built the tractor or what club it pulled with, but someone should have teched this tractor out of competition . Needless to say before this tractor moves on its own power I will rebuild the cage mount to be safe. All of us are responsible for our own safety.

Re: Nasty wreck October 06, 2020 01:41AM
I would like to add here that this past Saturday Jeff Cohick, the driver involved in that incident, was back in the drivers seat at Laurelton, PA. He drove Paul Hoch's Screamin' Eagle Lt Pro and drove it like a champ. Carried the nose and didn't blink an eye! Great job Jeff!



J R
Eastern Extreme Pulling
www.easternextremepulling.com
EEPPULLINGVIDEOS

Pro Pulling Magazine
Hook Magazine

Re: Nasty wreck October 09, 2020 12:50PM
Quote
J R
I would like to add here that this past Saturday Jeff Cohick, the driver involved in that incident, was back in the drivers seat at Laurelton, PA. He drove Paul Hoch's Screamin' Eagle Lt Pro and drove it like a champ. Carried the nose and didn't blink an eye! Great job Jeff!


Jerry, good for him and great to hear!

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